BISEXUALITY, PREJUDICES AND OSTRACISM

What follows is a text posted by a gay boy on the Italian Gay Project Forum, it is a very important document because it clearly summarizes all the perplexities that a relationship with a bisexual raises in a homosexual boy. This is not a strictly individual reaction. As I have seen through talks with dozens of gay guys who have had relationships with bisexual guys, the post below shows the reactions of almost all gays (especially those not openly out). 
 
Unfortunately, I feel compelled to face what is in my opinion one of the thorniest issues in the world of sexuality: bisexuality from a viewpoint of prejudices and marginalization. I know that now I will have the whole bisexual community against me, but I beg you to at least appreciate my good will to overcome my fears and prejudices on this issue, because, we must be sincere, unfortunately there are many people who harbor stereotypes about bisexuals, and for people I mean the vast majority of heterosexuals and even homosexuals. I beg you to identify yourself first of all in my point of view, in the way of thinking of a gay boy who, in his experience, has seen many discrepancies between words and deeds. I listen to your words, but for me the facts are fundamental, without facts and demonstrations, the words are zero for me, this in any case.
 
I’m here to write because I’ve had a lot of frequentations gone wrong with bisexual guys, who have deeply hurt me, and now I find it difficult to relate to other bisexual guys. Staying in couple with a bisexual for me means to be perpetually in competition with the other sex, with the awareness that, willy-nilly, a girl will always be privileged compared to me, because let’s face it, a girl is able to give a boy much more than what I can give him. With me a boy would have to contend with the judgment of the people and could not make a family, because two boys cannot procreate. Being with a girl, for equal sexual pleasure, would be much easier: acceptance, approval from parents, marriage, children, happy old age etc.. 
 
Anyway I find scary the number of bisexual adults who, despite being engaged / married are looking for a “sex friend” on the most popular entertainment sites without any obligation and with “the maximum discretion”. My first bisexual boyfriend had a female best friend who at the same time was his former girlfriend, and they often spent time together. This is something I didn’t bear (you’re thinking about a lack of trust, and maybe you’re right, but I need to write everything down otherwise it would not make sense to stay here writing this post taking time out of the study), and it was one of so many reasons why I decided to leave him. 
 
The second bisexual guy I was with gave me several stab wounds from this point of view: “Put your soul in peace, my family will never know you, or if you really want, you can introduce yourself as a friend.” These are phrases that make you feel very bad, it is humiliating that your partner is ashamed to be with you to the point of having to hide, it is humiliating to think that if in my place there had been a girl this sentence wouldn’t even have crossed the antechamber of his brain. 
 
It hurts when your partner tells you that if you were a girl he would have kept you by the hand quietly, and instead … Even the intimacy with a bisexual boy I didn’t live it happily: all with the fixed idea of anal intercourse already from the first meetings, as if it were something essential, absolutely not negligible that, sooner or later, absolutely must be done: “This position sooner or later we will do it.” I’m an anxious guy, I admit, but to hear these phrases in intimacy just makes me even more anxious and stressed, and of course leads also to the loss of desire on my part. Or it is I who see the anal intercourse as the antechamber of hell, sometimes I even doubt that I am gay for this reason. In any case I cannot bear that the other guy, bisexual, pours on me his straight sexual fantasies as if he were with a woman, I am not a substitute or an imitation of a girl, so I don’t want to be treated as such! In some ways it is as if I felt inferior in bed compared to a bisexual boy: if I think for example of his experience with me, and I think he could have done it with a girl, I feel somewhat less virile. I know that all these thoughts are probably only in my mind and are unfounded, but it is a torment that every time makes itself felt and I cannot get rid of it.
 
I think I have touched all the points roughly, I conclude by saying that I’m aware that the prejudices that gay and straight people have towards bisexuals inevitably lead them to ghettoise themselves , to create a little space located in the limbo between the two extremes and excluded from both the hemispheres, and this is what led me to write this post. I hope you don’t attack me, but I needed to tell you my experiences to make you understand, and I’m happy to hear from you if it can help me to go beyond my fears and insecurities. 
 
Nico.
____________
If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-bisexuality-prejudices-and-ostracism
Advertisements

BISEXUALITY WITHOUT TRAUMA

Hi Project, 
another summer is over, this blessed season in which I love to switch off from everything, especially from most of the technologies that necessarily accompany me throughout the rest of the year. Summer for me means peace, nature, tranquility. I surround myself with the closest friends with whom I share virtually every moment of the day in a sort of regenerating community experience. But now it is September 1, 2015, the summer is over and with the return to the internet I accidentally came across this site. 
 
How did I? Like many, looking for erotic stories with a gay background, but inevitably I stopped to read many of the interesting articles and contributions of those who follow you. It’s just after midnight and having left friends, returning home I decided to write to you for a number of reasons: first of all to express my appreciation for your cultural operation that is clearly distinguished by a certain carnival subculture so popular in the gay world, partly also to share my experience so as to make you participate in my perspective that inevitably distances a lot from yours, while I’m stressing anyway my respect for your conscientious approach to gay issues.
 
I would begin by talking a little about myself, my life and the evolution of my sexual sphere. My name is Mark, I’m 27, gay for 5 years. Indeed, as ironically I like to think more potential bisexual than gay. I was born in a small village in southern Italy in a large family, surrounded by four sisters of age very close to mine. My family, I would say, is traditionalist but without particular excesses beyond a bit of religious folklore that on the other hand I cannot criticize.
 
The discovery of the female world takes place about the end of the primary school, perhaps a little earlier. As for erections I distinctly remember having had them even very young, before the age of six to let you understand. But it was some physical reaction that I couldn’t explain. At the end of the primary school instead it became clear, it was the girls who provoked this mysterious phenomenon as I discovered probably watching some ballerina on television. Thus I entered the long period of healthy teenage masturbation. Every occasion was good to give me to the onanism defying any risk of being discovered by parents or sisters. Bath monopolized for hours, wake up at night to watch local TV porn channels and things of this kind. In short, that an adolescent masturbates will also be normal but certainly I had also to take a bit of precautions not to be caught in the act. Meanwhile, slowly some of my friends began to break through the female world. I didn’t consider myself beautiful, seeing now the old photos of that period instead I would say that I was a pretty nice boy. With the girls I could talk, even joke and have fun but … I wouldn’t even talk about to overcome a certain threshold. I could not really. I was just nice.
 
And while everyone grows, matures and gets engaged, I until the end of the high school I didn’t realize anything at all. Yet I liked a lot of girls and I think a lot of girls liked me! Patience, my character limits were those and I couldn’t do anything about. I go to university, I transfer to Naples, the big city. I leave the placid village and enter a new dimension. My first years are very good, I dedicate myself body and soul to the study that I’m passionate about, but I can make few friends, mostly male students always horny but always inconclusive. At that time I have some small crush too but nothing goes to port, talk and just talk.
 
I proceed in my career as a talented wanker thanks to an internet connection that is always faster. I believe that pornography is one of the most underrated themes of recent years. Although I’m neither a psychologist nor a sociologist, I believe that its influence on the construction of the sexual sphere of an entire generation is colossal and monstrous. While really every taboo is overcome by our media society, this reality, which is everyday life for many, we speak very little about and I think even scientific studies don’t care it at all.
 
But let’s get back to me. I don’t know exactly when I started but one fine day towards the end of the university I began to realize that my attention during the porn movies moved from the female figures to the male ones. For a while I began to select videos with more attention to the actors than to the actresses. Soon I switched to bisexual porn and then I joined the gay one. Now, in my head I never had the fantasy of playing the role of women. But I was beginning to feel attracted to male beauty and after the discovery of gay pornography, in which I liked to see the bodies of both guys, I projected my image more on the active partner than on the passive. In short, a substitution of the object of desire was essentially occurring in my head but with a continuity of my role during the sexual act.
 
I have never given so much importance to the loss of virginity but gradually I was always more eager to have a real sexual experience. But how? One day I decided to contact an … escort. Because today they are called so. He was a handsome boy, a couple of years younger than me who welcomed me very happy in his apartment and probably used to customers much older and wealthy (as well as repellent), asked me a really ridiculous amount of money, I would say symbolic. It must be said that actually we didn’t do much and I stole him a little time because, as I was presumed, I didn’t want to go all the way. When he started to take the condoms, I stopped him, kissed him and asked to continue our little games, almost foreplay until we both came together. Perhaps I had some scruples of conscience, perhaps fear. I cannot say.
 
At the end he asked me if we wanted to stay in touch like friends in the future but I told him what I thought, that I liked it but I had discovered this things just recently and I didn’t feel like it. I had just had my first sexual experience and even homosexual. But I still felt something else. He was the exact stereotype of the gay guy you see on TV, I definitely not. Yet I had liked him and also a lot. The first experience somehow went well.
 
Time passes, even a lot. My pornographic tastes fluctuate while in everyday life I still suffer the great charm of women. For a long time, I don’t know why, but I don’t feel any attraction for the guys I see. Sometimes I dwell on some nice guy, I think it’s nice, maybe I’d like to know him maybe kiss him but nothing more. I don’t really drool behind the guys like behind girls. Girls always give me erotic images, of a sexual nature while guys don’t. It’s a different thing, with guys it’s still pornography stuff.
 
Above all my friends, the old and new ones, I see them as friends and that’s it. I do not talk to them about my experience or about my new trend, I’ve never felt the need to tell the truth, perhaps because in any case, my way, I’ve always been a boy with great respect for everyone’s privacy. I don’t like being asked delicate questions and I do consequently with my friends. I appreciate when someone opens with me but for this I don’t think I have the right, even towards a friend, to subject him to an interrogation, even if I see that he is hiding something from me. If my friend hides something from me, he certainly has his reasons, and even more a friend should understand such things. Perhaps I’m strange but I still see things this way. However my life with women, apart from some small parenthesis, remains hanging on a nail. I have short relationships with some girls but at some point I always close.
 
Once I go to a prostitute, a beautiful girl but … Some problems during the act. With a girl with whom I had sex months ago all right, with her as beautiful as she is, there is nothing to do, but she is not surprised at all and takes it lightly. However, besides being a bad and sad thing it’s also a luxury that I cannot afford anymore.
 
Let’s say I’m a type, not a cool guy, but a nice guy, even joyful and easy-going, so I have some hope in dating sites. I throw myself on the gay dating sites. In recent years I have had several occasional meetings, always with boys of my age, always protected sex and always with the utmost respect for each other. I have tried as much as possible in such a strange (and insane) situation to keep very strange characters away. I have rarely been more than once with the same boy. This has been my way for a long time to give a purely sexual dimension to these meetings, to build a cage around it to prevent them from ending up in friendship.
 
Let me be clear, with every boy I meet, I relate from man to man, that is, with the maximum spontaneity and the maximum humanity as it comes naturally to me. Even if it was always about sex and not about love, in the before and after (but also during) I always came … how to say, spontaneously to share a nice moment and not give life to absurd scenes of porn movies of the fourth category. In fact, at least I have tried sometimes the annoying feeling of being treated not as a person but as a sex toy or something similar. Until this point of love has never been spoken of. 
On closer inspection I have always avoided it perhaps in the consciousness of being in the end a boy endowed with a certain sensitivity and fragility, for which I have always locked me up to protect myself from the danger of feeling love for another boy. A condition badly accepted perhaps more by myself than by the people who love me, thank God they are numerous, and I am sure that they would forgive me this stupid fault that is not to blame. After all, as I said at the beginning, I always have the impression of being a frustrated homosexual and a potential bisexual, simply unable to relate to people. Thinking about it, too often I find myself taking a crush indistinctly both for boys and girls.
 
The quality that I value most in a person is simplicity that is expressed with a sincere laugh and a calm heart. In fact, probably having gained my sexual experiences with guys through occasional meetings with people who often only seek sex, has reinforced in me the idea that it is possible to really build a relationship only with girls. A stupidly romantic idea and evidently deformed from my perspective.
 
This is what I think I understood by browsing the pages of your blog: there are gays that are normal. It seems stupid to say so but I realize that probably if I had started my sexual adventures on dating sites for hetero people I would have made an equally negative idea of women, but in this case I would have been wrong.
 
So thanks, Project, and good work.
Mark.
___________
If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-bisexuality-without-trauma

A GAY BETWEEN A STRAIGHT AND A BISEXUAL

When I was a child, I believed in fairy tales, I believed that in order to obtain anything it was enough to want it deeply, as I grew up I learned on my skin that fairy tales are a way to prevent a child from too traumatic contact with reality. When I was a child, I was not a little charming prince and perhaps I looked more like a frog than a prince, but a chubby frog, because I was like that! I struggled to accept myself, but not as a gay (what came later and was not a problem at all) but as a fat boy. Now I see the photos of when I was a child: just a lard ball inexorably attracted to cakes and snacks of all kinds. 
Of the period before adolescence I remember especially the talks with the psychologist and the dietician, the terror of when they took my blood for the analysis and the obsession of the scale, I didn’t understand why my mother considered it something so fundamental. I didn’t give a damn about being fat and I didn’t understand why the others were so worried. I hated my mother when she hid me things to eat, spied on me and locked the fridge. In primary school, in a school of nuns, the comrades were polite and nobody was making fun of me and so being fat didn’t really give me any problem. 
The trouble started in the sixth grade. As soon as I entered the school, they gave me the first nickname: Ciccio! [something like “fatty”] At first I didn’t understand why, then I slowly understood. The school environment was bad. The teachers struggled a lot to be respected, we teased them and laughed like crazy and they tried to keep us as good as they could, the math teacher threatened to load us with homework, the Italian teacher to make us do long summaries. We had a young lady as a Gymnastics teacher, who showed us how to do the exercises first, she was very good at doing exercises, but we were not good at doing anything! 
At the first gym classes I felt myself marginalized for the first time. In primary school we didn’t do Gymnastics at all, but from the sixth grade the teacher didn’t let us play and didn’t allow us to waste time and the gym class started with a run that never ended. The teacher made me do only two laps, while the others kept running, I and another boy had to stretch while lying on the ground and the other boy was also chubby, not just like me but almost. The teacher didn’t make us tired, then I realized that since I was too fat I could have problems and she was careful. When my parents went to the interview with the teachers they asked if they would do better to ask for the exemption and the teacher said that asking for exemption would certainly be a mistake and that I would have to attend a gym regularly. 
In the first week of the sixth grade I had learned a very long series of bad words of which I didn’t even know the meaning. In practice in a very short time the mockery of the companions, but also the pushes and the blows, focused on two kids, one was me: “Ciccio” and then there was “Recchia” [derived from the Italian dialect word “Ricchione” or “Recchione” used vulgarly as a synonym of homosexual], a slim and blond boy who was systematically placed in the middle and beaten up. I didn’t understand why they called him Recchia and I thought it was because he had big ears (in Italian “orecchie”), but in reality they were not big, it took me a couple of years to get to understand the real why. 
In the seventh grade my classmates, or at least some of them, must have begun to understand something more about sex, the fact is that, even if I didn’t understand why, they hugged Recchia from behind and held him tight and Recchia tried to wriggle to run away, if he could not, he reacted screaming and sometimes he would start crying, and then they mocked him heavily, they demanded that he sit down on the legs of the other companions and someone tried to put hands in the middle of his legs, it is at this point that I began to have a first vague idea of what sexuality was. 
Recchia made me tenderness, I never made stupid jokes against him to put him in trouble and if I saw someone who tried to mock him I defended him and the others stayed calm, because I was much bigger than them. In the middle of seventh grade, Recchia changed school (then I realized that he couldn’t stand bullying of my classmates) but we continued to meet at least once a week, I was fine with him, he never mocked me and when I went to his house, his parents always prepared for me something to eat: pizza or sweets. 
When I was in eighth grade, Recchia started to become a really nice boy and I started to fantasize about him, I liked him very much and practically I started to masturbate always thinking of Paul, that’s his name. I imagined that he was gay and that he was in love with me, very unlikely because he was handsome while I was still fat, I had grown tall but I was still very heavy. We did the eighth grade examinations in two different schools and then we met together in the ninth grade, starting scientific high school. He told me he would attend the classic high school but then I found him in my class, I don’t know if it happened by chance (I don’t think so), but it happened like that. 
We started to study together, the thing worked and then I did everything not to lose ground because spending all afternoons with Paul was like being in heaven. The school was difficult and we studied a lot but we didn’t get scared. One day one of our female friends comes to me and tells me that Paul told her that I’m a special boy, I like it very much. We arrive in the 11th grade, Paul is now the idol of the girls and also of the teachers and I feel proud that he considers me a friend. Obviously he is the center of all my sexual interests, but it seems to me not only too good for me but too interested in girls, however we continue to study together. 
When we are almost at the end of the annual school trip we end up in the same hotel room, we talk all night long, even about sex, and he tells me about a girl that he likes very much, I listen and try to answer as I can, then he asks me about me and since I really trust him I tell him that I think I’m gay but not only, I also tell him that I’m in love with him, he looks at me puzzled, then he sends out loud all the breath he has in the lungs and tells me: “Oh well, it happens! I’m sorry that I cannot match you because for me there are only girls, if ever I fall in love with a boy, that one would be you! I know it’s a small consolation . . . All the same as before?” I reply: “Sure!” And actually nothing changed between us, or better our relationship has improved, I felt free and happy to have a friend like Paul. 
Then in the middle of the 13th grade I made my metamorphosis and from the fatty boy I was I become a butterfly, I lost many kilos and according to what they tell me, I became a handsome boy, I would have hoped that the boys would follow me and instead only girls were following me. I often consulted with Paul on how to keep girls at a distance because he too had the same problem even if the situation was completely different. 
After graduation Paul went to study in another city and in practice we lost almost all contacts. I enrolled in engineering, dreaming of being able to meet another Paul, but this time gay, and to finally be able to live a love affair with him. For me Paul was a very important person at all levels, he was not gay, ok, but we were friends in the true sense of the word, he basically knew everything about me and nothing had changed and then he didn’t talk about me to anyone. Let’s say that I was badly accustomed to him, not only, but I had in mind the myth of the gay who is always good, respects his neighbor and seeks a serious emotional life. 
In the faculty we are few, there is a fair percentage of girls, so the number of guys is quite low, I would say about twenty, there are me, gay, some others there should be but everyone keeps well perched in his privacy, except for heterosexuals, but they must think above all to study more than to stay with the girls. In short, I look around but there is not even the shadow of a gay. I make friends with a guy in my class, I immediately state that he had nothing to do with Paul, he was a not bad boy, but for me he had never been an object I don’t say of erotic fantasies but not even of curiosity. I had not tried to get news about him like I did on another couple of my colleagues, just because I was not interested in him. 
The friendship between us is born by chance and I think that he too cared little about me, he could serve to study together, but he was not even a big deal from that point of view. I don’t give importance to the thing, in the periods before the exemptions [tests carried out periodically during the course, which, if passed with good grades allow to be exempt from the final written test.] we study together a few nights. Seen up close he is not bad and I tell myself that since certainly I’ll never find another Paul, it is worth while accepting what the convent passes, between us there is a little more confidence and he starts talking about girls, tells me that he has a girlfriend but that “it’s not enough” that he also needs “other”. 
I ask him if he is in love with his girl and tells me yes, the speech goes on and after a long pull and spring he tells me that he’s bisexual, I, given my total inexperience, put in my head a wrong equation: “bisexual = gay” and I’m still a bit bad: I had found one that would have been there but it was not like Paul . . . I said to myself, “Did this guy really have to be gay?” (gay or bisexual it was basically the same for me) And I went on to assume that his world was exactly like mine. I didn’t know what to do, saying: “I’m gay” would have been perhaps the right thing to do but, frankly, I didn’t trust him too much and then I was also afraid he could take the lead of staying with me, what I was not at all convinced of wanting, I believe no more than yes. 
I continued to be a straight friend, but evidently he had a long eye and aimed far away, where I didn’t think he was coming. He introduced me to his girl, what I would never have expected, and made sure that we three would meet many times. I said to myself: “If you want to go out with me, ok, but what about the girl? Don’t meddle me with things I have nothing to do with!” But there was a flaw in my reasoning, I had slowly begun to assume that he understood how things were, even though I had never admitted anything. I said to myself: “If he is not an idiot he understood!” 
At a certain point I realized that the girl was beginning to consider me a confidant. She phoned me to tell me about his business and in practice to make me understand that she had problems with her boyfriend because she thought the boy was gay. I asked her what she deduced it from and she told me that the boy was never there on Wednesdays, I, perhaps naively, told her that on Wednesdays he never came to classes and she grimaced as if to say that she expected it, then asked me if I knew anything and I found myself in a terrible embarrassment, because I knew but I couldn’t tell her anything so I had to lie, but I didn’t like it at all. In short, I became the confidant of the girl, who called me almost every day and on Wednesday came to the university canteen to have lunch with me. 
I finally had to tell the guy how things were and he confessed to me that things were no longer going well with the girl and that maybe he was not really bisexual but gay and that he didn’t feel like going along with the girl. In short, after a few days, a Tuesday night he tells me that he left the girl because it is not something for him, on Wednesday at the table I see the girl who confirms the fact but the time is very short and we decide to meet again in the evening. We go to the pizzeria, then in the car she unleashes herself with me and starts crying and tells me a sentence that puts me in alarm: “I cannot stand any more gays! I need a real man, I’m just fine with you!” I said to myself: “Oh my God! But look what a rascal! He cut the rope and dumped the girl!” I had to appeal to all my creative spirit to explain to the girl that I was already busy and that my girlfriend calls me every night on skype. She was very bad, though obviously she couldn’t take it out on me. 
When I saw him the next day at the university, I asked him where he was going on Wednesday, because I thought he had found a guy, and he told me: “I see another girl!” I told him: “Girl? But didn’t you feel gay?” And he replied: “Not exactly 100% gay”. In the evening I called Paul and I told him the whole story and he told me that he had been courting a girl for months but that she kept him at a distance, then a female friend of the girl told him that the girl didn’t want him because she thought he was gay! Paul gay? Only one who does not reason at all can think of such a thing. Then Paul told me laughing: “I think it would be better if we put together!” And it all ended with this joke: Paul!!! But why are the beautiful and intelligent guys always straight?!
___________
If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-a-gay-between-a-straight-and-a-bisexual

A 36 YEARS OLD GUY BETWEEN GAY AND BISEXUAL

Below you can read the online interview of a 36-year-old guy who lives an important hetero relationship and has had experiences with both boys and girls but considers himself a gay in the impossibility of being gay, who also lives an authentic hetero life but not entirely satisfactory.
 
1) My age
I’m 36 years old
 
2) My sexual orientation and its evolution
I had both (sexual and amorous) relationships with both women and men. I am currently with a woman for a few years now. But I am certainly physically attracted to men. So I think I’m gay. Yet even sex with women has always been good, always sought and felt satisfying, but not entirely, in the sense that the attraction for my own sex has never been eliminated. My longest and most important stories have been hetero, but I have always felt the need for erotic fantasies and sex with boys, perhaps because sex with women has never failed me, as it happened to me for long periods with boys.
 
3) When and how I realized I was gay
I always knew that I was physically attracted to the boys. Maybe when I was 13-14 years old I still didn’t understand if it was curiosity, or I was gay or bisexual, since I also liked going with girls (but I don’t understand this even now). But I think that if being gay means experience sexual attraction for people of the same sex, then I’ve always known I was gay since I remember.
 
4) When and how I accepted to be gay
When I met a guy I fell badly in love with. I realized that it couldn’t remain a hidden attraction, an erotic fantasy or a fleeting escapade, I needed that boy to feel myself realized with him. I would have accepted my homosexuality and I would have made sure that others would accept it if the story could have progressed. He was my best friend (so I thought at the beginning). But he accepted his homosexuality even less than how I accepted mine, practically he didn’t accept himself at all as a gay, so after some shy sexual contact between us, at first a bit for fun, then in a painful pull and spring, he wanted to deny everything and reaffirm his heterosexuality. He didn’t even talk with me again, perhaps out of fear that I would let this story, lived in the shadows, could come out. Yet it was a relationship that has tied us for about two years.
 
5) The difficulties I have encountered in accepting my gay identity
Not having an absolute sexual tendency (neither gay nor heterosexual) has pushed me not to live my being in the light of the sun, in relationships with others. I never seriously thought about coming out, a little out of fear – as everyone, I think – but a little because I’ve never thought to give up a part of me, one of my sexual components (I had and I have important hetero stories). For myself, I accepted myself well enough without excessive conflict. Outside, with others it’s another thing.
 
6) The situations of hardship that I have faced and that I have to face as a gay
The greatest difficulties and sufferings I experience are related to the fact that I live my being gay in the shadows, opening myself only with a few boys and fearing that someone may come to know.
 
7) Who knows about me
The boy of my second gay story of true falling in love (and little sex), with which, however, I don’t talk anymore, a few gay friends (with whom, however, there has always been a shallow friendship, with almost all of them I have had sex, almost all adventures that lasted a little without too much involvement).
 
8) The relationship with my parents
Good. I have not lived with them for a long time. They never suspected anything.
 
9) My relationship with my friends
Good. I tend to have few real friends, but I care a lot about them, and I attach great importance to the consideration they have of me.
 
10) Where do my knowledge of gay reality come from?
They come more than anything from the comparison of my experiences with those of other boys I know who live in my same situation. Too little anyway (compared to what I would like) from the direct conversation with gay guys, much more via internet sites like this.
 
11) My relationship with my nakedness and that of others
I have no problem showing me naked or being with other naked boys or girls.
 
12) My relationship with masturbation
I live it well. I consider it a healthy and normal satisfaction of our desire. Certainly it comes to the background compared to couple relationships (in the sense that I feel marginally the need  for masturbation when the sexual couple sexual intercourses are not scarce). But having predominantly heterosexual relationships, while masturbate,  homosexual erotic fantasies emerge in an exclusive way.
 
13) My relationship with pornography
Moderate. Also this can attract me more in periods of prolonged abstention from homosexual intercourses, similarly to the previous point.
 
14) My relationship with meeting sites and erotic chats
Sometimes I tried to meet on the internet. Few times with satisfactory outcome. Driven by the desire to meet people like me with whom to make friends (or maybe even just sex? ) without being exposed in places in which I could risk being known. The erotic chats, on the other hand, don’t attract me at all.
 
15) How I tried to realize my affectivity / sexuality
As for the realization of affectivity, I think I have had several significant stories. I think the most significant ones were with two boys and two girls; the last one is with the woman with whom I live, which emotionally allowed me to realize myself fully and that is the person I love most. The two boys I fell in love with in the past have made me live two stories equally affectively important in which, however, there was no satisfactory sexuality (with the first almost nothing) most likely for their difficulty to accept themselves for what they were and for the will to self-impose a straight life. I do not know if I feel very accomplished sexually. Homo sexual relations attract me and I miss them, but they can only be clandestine betrayals of the person I love, with a consequent sense of guilt towards her and terror of being discovered. On the other hand, for me affectivity and sexuality have never been coincident, but the rest of the world does not seem to think so. Patience!
 
16) My relationship with girls
Great. I can make good friends with the girls.
 
17) My relationship with straight guys
Great. I would like more time to spend with friends.
 
18) My relationship with gay guys
Repressed. In the sense that I have some gay friends and I have no problem attending them. But with those of my circle I can not declare myself gay and so the relationship remains much more superficial or distorted than I would like. With those I have known outside my circle of straight friends, with whom I can be open, the relationships are more sparse and therefore also unsatisfactory compared to what I would like.
  
19) What strikes me most in a guy
In addition to the physical appearance? Spontaneity and ease and freedom from any taboo or social convention on sex, nudity, etc. I would say the serenity and naturalness with which he addresses his own drives and relates to those of others.
 
20) My previous affective life
Always messed up: between falling in love with girls and falling in love with boys, the latter without being able to have full sexual satisfaction. And on the other hand, various sex stories without any emotional implication with girls and boys. I feel a constant tension due to the fact that I cannot fully and exclusively dedicate myself to heterosexual relationships nor to gay relationships, and therefore I live never making a choice here or there, having never been fully satisfied neither from one side or the other.
 
21) My current affective situation
It’s been a while since I have a female partner who emotionally gives me everything I need. Sex also works well between us. I no longer fell in love with guys, although I almost constantly feel the lack of sexual relationships with other guys, in terms of pure erotic desire, while in the past there may have been a real love. Sometimes I wonder if I would miss sexual relations with women if I had a stable relationship with a boy. I don’t know .. But I know that with no boy I managed to combine sex and affectivity as with the girl I’m with. It makes me think that I’m fine, even if I miss something. You cannot have everything, life is made of compromises, and so on …
 
22) My degree of emotional satisfaction
The story that I am living with my partner satisfies me emotionally, even if the phase of falling in love is now over. Sometimes I wonder if in a relationship between boys there could be a greater understanding or a greater complicity (so it seemed to me in my previous experiences). But maybe it’s not like that; these are probably things that vary from person to person more than on the basis of being male or female.
 
23) My degree of sexual satisfaction
Needless to deny it, physically I miss gay sex, I feel the need and I find the way to satisfy it too rarely and clandestinely with occasional relationships often unsatisfactory because of the absence of the affective side.
 
24) The weight of sex in my affective world
Enough. But I feel the two things like on two different levels. When the two things touch each other in a single person, we can be happy with it, however the two levels are able to meet each other. But it is not common.
 
25) What I would like from my boyfriend
To be able to accept each other for what we are, to be able to tell everything with naturalness and sincerity, to be able to do everything we like not caring about what people think.
 
26) What I think I can give to my boyfriend
If you love someone you give him everything you can if he wants it. The most precious thing would be sincerity, but it is necessary that your partner wants it and can accept it. But I don’t feel my current relationship this way: could she believe in our relationship if I told her that I miss sexual relationships with men?
 
27) My desires in relation to my emotional / sexual life
Sometimes I think it would be nice to have a friend in my same situation, to be able to have a gratifying sexual relationship without being afraid of being discovered or losing my female partner. So I could satisfy both my sexual / affective impulses. A bit like in “The ignorant fairies” …
 
28) My frustrations in relation to my emotional / sexual life
The need to give up on homosexual relationships a bit out of respect for my female partner and a little for fear of being discovered by her. Having unsatisfactory or non-serene homosexual relationships because they are carried out in a clandestine manner with occasional and limping relationships on the affective side.
 
29) What I would like to know about the emotional / sexual life of other gay guys
I would like to know their life better (every life is a universe in itself), I miss it and I have always lacked the sharing of experiences with other gay guys.
 
30) How I consider myself informed about sexual behavior at risk
I know what there is to know about safe sex.
__________
If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-a-36-years-old-guy-between-gay-and-bisexual

FROM HETERO TO BISEXUAL TO GAY

Hello Project,

it is 4.40 of December 27th 2010, an absolutely unusual time to write an email, but after spending a few hours reading the forum I decided. Actually, the input was another. Last night I had discovered the forum, I thought it was a very different thing from the usual, then I saw that there was a chat and I opened that chat. The guys welcomed me well, and above all it seemed to me a place of serious people, polite guys who talk about normal things for the pleasure of being together, a few minutes later a guy who had a nick that I remember well gp000, contacted me and we talked a bit, he is 23 years old and told me he had talked with other guys in the chat and the place seemed really serious and he told me that he would contact you. Frankly I felt a little displaced but positive, It hardly seemed credible to me to be able to find a gay environment where a guy contacts you with no other purpose than exchanging a few words. Then we talked a bit, I thought he was a great guy. I went out of the chat and I started reading the forum and I was there until 4.40. I can say that I have never seen anything like this on the net and I like it a lot, so I decided to write to you.

I’m actually a newbie in the gay world and I need to clarify some ideas because I confess that I’m a bit scared and finding a serious place for me is essential. But now I’ll explain it better.

I’m a 25 year old guy and my real problem was my so-called bisexuality. I have read some of your articles that have clarified my ideas a lot and have confirmed me in a series of convictions to which I had already arrived alone, but let’s start from the beginning.

In practice, up to 20-21 years old I never had doubts about my sexual orientation, I liked girls, only girls, I had many stories, and many also with sexual implications, I liked a lot such things, especially the idea of winning the resistance of a girl, however, with hindsight, I think I never really fell in love with a girl. That is, I was living the relationship with a girl as something only mine, she was a bit a way to prove to myself that in those things I knew how to do.

To let you understand, up to 21/22 years old I had sexual intercourses, it would be better to say I had sexual contacts with a dozen girls, with four I had complete intercourses, with the other ones just mutual masturbation, my fantasies were all straight.

Between 20 and 21 years old at a New Year party I met a girl Emma (it’s not her real name) who took me seriously and tried to build something different with me. At first it was fine, when I was talking about her I used to say “my girlfriend”, something I had not done with any of the other girls, I felt grown up, gratified, we also had sexual intercourses and things went very well. It went on like this for a few months, in the meantime I met a guy, Mark (a fantasy name), who was a couple of years older than me, I liked him, we talked often on msn, then we went out together sometimes we stayed talking until the morning. Summer came, Emma went on vacation with her parents and Mark proposed to spend a week with him in a mountain house on the Apennines.

I state that Mark is straight and that at the time I was straight too but that week was certainly the most beautiful week of my life, I felt free, appreciated by Mark, in a sense cuddled, an incredible relationship of intimacy had been created, we talked about our relationships with our girls and he understood me. The first night we stayed in separate rooms, from the second night we stayed in the same room to talk until late. I had a great time, I felt better than with Emma, with her at the end we had to get to sex, it was not bad but for her it was a fixed idea, for me no, with Mark I felt free, without obligations, and so I experienced that in fact with a guy I could have a great time, as with a girl if not even better. We also joked, played, pillow fought, made the fight, but without sexual implications, at least then I thought it was so, in fact, even if I didn’t understand it, I was falling in love with Mark.

After the vacation, when Emma came back I came back to her and in practice her company began to be a weigh for me, I noted certain underlining that I didn’t like. A lot of things didn’t seem to me really mine, at least not 100% mine. With Emma the sexual intercourses continued but the thing for me had a strange taste, it was not like before, I was listless, I tried not to get involved and she realized it, she wanted to know if I had met other girls, but I hadn’t met any girl at all. In short, I tried to please her and it was just while I was making love to her that for the first time Mark came to my mind in another way, a kind of substitution of a person, I imagined that Mark was with me. In the evening I masturbated thinking of Mark. It was the first time that it happened to me when I was thinking of a guy. The feeling was very strange, I had never done such a thing but at the same time I felt very well, I said to myself: I am bisexual, it is evident.

And here my madness began, I tried to contact Mark because I expected from him who knows what, I thought maybe he could have fallen in love with me, but the only thing I got was a dinner in four in a restaurant . He had eyes only for his girlfriend, Emma only for me and I only for him, a situation in which for the first time I found myself playing the part of the lover, but I recited it well and nobody noticed it. I didn’t know who to talk to, it was obvious that I had to forget Mark, I hadn’t even the courage to speak clearly with Emma and then I had always worked hard to look a good hetero guy, I practically imposed this behavior on myself. Every time I made love with Emma it seemed to me that I could be heterosexual, then I masturbated thinking of Mark and I thought I was bisexual, after the summer I no longer masturbated thinking about girls, for me there was only Mark.

I want to clarify something, for me there were no guys, there was only Marco and this led me to think that basically I was not gay or bisexual, because I wanted that guy only. I scrupulously avoided pornography because I would have ended up on gay pornography and it would have bothered me, what I felt for Mark I didn’t want to confuse it with pornography. I imagined a beautiful love story with Mark, but with a gay Mark able to share it, I said with a gay Mark, not a bisexual Mark, just thinking about this I had the first doubts about the fact that I would never have accepted that Mark was bisexual, gay would have been fine but bisexual no, I wouldn’t have wanted to share him with anyone.

I imagined instead that I was able to have two loves, one with Emma and one with Mark and that both were in love with me in an exclusive way, I then I hypothesized that such a thing could make sense and anyway I saw myself as a bisexual, also because we can say so, I was doing my best to be bisexual, I considered it a more acceptable thing, closer to a correct behavior, you’re in love with a girl and then just a bit with a guy, it seemed a less unusual thing. Sometimes I was tempted to masturbate thinking of Mark and to tell Emma that I didn’t feel like having sex with her, but then I forced myself to do exactly the opposite, that is not to think of Marco and make love with Emma because “it’s a normal thing”.

The situation became more and more absurd and in the end she began to ask me a lot of questions. At the beginning I answered vague things, like I’m tired, stressed and the like, then because I just couldn’t go on and I thought it would be better to break I made her understand that I felt bisexual and I could not stand her reaction, she wanted to know who had put these ideas in my head, if I had met “some of those”, I said no because first of all it was true and then I would never have brought Mark into that story because he had nothing to do with it. I was hoping it would be a good opportunity to close with Emma but it was not like that and the torture started, she wanted to know, she wanted to understand, but according to her what I told her was not true, those were all things that “some of those” had put into my head.

I tried to make Emma understand that I didn’t think it was a trivial thing at all, but she told me that I could not be gay and I told her that I didn’t feel gay but bisexual and she insisted that it was just a nonsense and that she knew me well, she started to do a bunch of flirting with me, what she had never done before, to change her voice as if it were that of a little girl, to show sexy attitudes, all things that I couldn’t bear and I told it her too, she went on for a while, then I made her understand that I didn’t feel like going ahead and she screamed at me that I was just looking for excuses to dump her because I had found another girl, for her the idea that I couldn’t be completely straight was in practice inconceivable.

All this happened between Christmas 2009 and New Year 2010. In practice since January 2010 I was alone again. I don’t hide that the first weeks were very hard, I was missing her madly, but I was not missing as a girl but as a person who could take a little care of me, I have been several times about to recall her because I really couldn’t go on, note that at the time I still felt bisexual and I even thought about starting a relationship with another girl and I went close to it but when it came to really getting involved I told myself I was going to do another stupid thing and that I had to take my time to understand. So I did nothing at all. I was alone, totally alone, my parents didn’t understand why I had left Emma and thought that I should go to a psychologist but nothing was done about it.

I didn’t know where to bump my head but I needed to understand. I began to think that basically I could use dating sites. I surfed a bit on some of these sites but the reaction was of total rejection and I would also say of depression. I told myself that I had nothing to do with those people, it was a logic that I felt completely foreign. Then I put aside the internet for months and I thought I could go to a gay association, in my city there are some, I looked for the addresses, I passed nearby there several times. I left my house with the intention of entering, then I arrived at the destination and pulled straight. I don’t feel safe, I need privacy, I understand those who make coming out but it’s not for me and then they declare themselves openly gay I should have declared bisexual, at least it was what I thought then. I was beginning to look at the guys on the street and they seemed beautiful, desirable.

This summer I was at the seaside in Puglia alone, I had proposed to look for opportunities to get experience, I was camping, I have known many guys but not even one gay. Now I say gay because I haven’t thought of a girl for at least six months and the guys camping in Puglia for me had a very strong sexual appeal that I cannot deny, but it was just fantasy. But why trying with a girl is so easy and trying with a guy is so difficult? I know why, but the result is depressing. After the holidays I would say my bisexuality is over, that is, I have closed another phase of my life but in fact I haven’t solved anything, I feel anyway a thousand fears, I’m attracted by the idea of getting to know gay guys, at least to understand how they are really, but I wouldn’t want to drive myself into bad experiences. After a somewhat depressed period, yesterday I happened to arrive on gay project and you know the rest.
Bye.
Uff25

___________

If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-from-hetero-to-bisexual-to-gay

BISEXUALITY IN AN ONLINE INTERVIEW

1) My age
Thirty years
 
2) My sexual orientation and its evolution
For 3-4 years now, after my first gay relationship, I recognize that I’m bisexual, but it’s a very difficult, distressing, suffering condition, I continue to live hetero sentimental stories, and strong, very beautiful hetero love, but at the time of going to the deep I block myself, come back to my gay side and after a period, I miss women in an incredible way. It’s a profound restlessness, a desire to always be where one is not. Of course I have always and only felt love for girls, and I had only a few sexual intercourses with guys. My relationships with women are always very gratifying, I like them, I feel a deep attraction towards women but I cannot undertake a love story with them with a capital A. I’m scared, I flee and go back to look for some gay sex adventure one night and away, over time I’m afraid to isolate myself emotionally and I told myself that I could not throw myself into a gay love story, because I would miss women, but at the same time, and I stress at the same time, I’m afraid of frustrating this gay side of me that still comes up as soon as I pretend not to see it.
 
3) When and how I realized I was gay
Personally I always knew I had an attraction toward guys, but I never thought I was fully gay. The first episodes so to say a bit destabilizing were from sixth to eighth grade, I masturbated thinking of some of my male classmates, but I masturbated even thinking of some of my female classmates.
 
4) When and how I accepted to be gay
I accepted this gay side, but I would also call it movement, wave, dynamic, for 4 years now, but I still don’t recognize myself as gay and at the same time I know I’m not straight.
 
5) The difficulties I have encountered in accepting my gay identity
I have problems for several years, I live in this fluctuation in a very personal way, I have never expressed to anyone this emotional and sexual whirlwind, I don’t know how it will end in the future I know that going in one direction rather than another would not make me happy.
 
6) The situations of hardship that I have faced and that I have to face as a gay
Well sometimes talking with gay friends or with people about sexuality, yes, I’m calm, but never having told anyone what I feel I’m always afraid that the person can discover me and therefore judge me badly, also because I’m openly hetero.
 
7) Who knows about me
Nobody precisely.
 
8) The relationship with my parents
An immense question. The relationship with my parents is difficult, it has been and will be. I come from a family that I would call poor psychologically, with many emotional problems and a myriad of depressive / frustrating dynamics. Only recently I was able to emotionally cut the umbilical cord and not by chance in coincidence with the affirmation at the rational and conscious level, therefore even at the practical one, of my gay side.
 
9) My relationship with my friends
Few friends, but with them I have good relationships. I tend to be very suspicious and this perhaps undermines the depth of certain friendships.
 
10) Where do my knowledge of gay reality come from?
A few from interpersonal acquaintances, a lot on the level of personal study and research.
 
11) My relationship with my nakedness and that of others
Well, in a sporting environment, I am extremely shy, I have always been very ashamed to take a shower with other guys. When I was a child I invented a thousand excuses not to do it. There is still something left today, for example in my intimate relationships with girls, I cannot sleep naked. I always need the underpants, which I take off and then put on during the intercourses.
 
12) My relationship with masturbation
I masturbate so much for the age that I have, mainly with gay fantasies, since I satisfy the straight ones, on the contrary when I happened to have satisfied those gays, I could not wait to see bare women.
 
13) My relationship with pornography
Pornography helped me to overcome many barriers, made me a little less modest, and now I satisfy my gay fantasies with pornography.
 
14) My relationship with meeting sites and erotic chats
Only and exclusively during the periods when the gay side re-emerges, in search of a gay sexual adventure.
 
15) How I tried to realize my affectivity / sexuality
I didn’t try. I’ve been living for 4 years now my gay sexuality but very slowly, almost a relationship every 8 or 10 months, I don’t feel affection with the guys, I live the emotional and sexual sphere instead normally with the female gender apart obviously when my gay side resurfaces.
 
16) My relationship with girls
Very particular, I never managed to live a love story with a capital A, I fell in love many times, some in an extremely involving  way, completely forgetting for some periods my gay side, then when things and situations have required a lasting emotional commitment, I have somehow declared myself unprepared to live it, precisely because I couldn’t start a deep relationship with a woman if before I hadn’t really understood how I am done, this thing is paradoxical, but I repeat, source of great suffering. Deep love relationships with women make me so afraid, afraid of being abandoned and afraid of suffering. I also thought that the gay part of me, was actually an excuse that I give myself not to finally throw me to live a love story in a full and deep way.
 
17) My relationship with straight guys
90% of my frequentations are with straight guys, I feel great with them, talking about women, football etc. I’ve always been one of them. 
 
18) My relationship with gay guys
Problematic, they make me a little afraid and they create distrust. Only on rare occasions I was starting to cultivate some friendship, but in general I avoid them, if not for reserved sex. 
 
19) What strikes me most in a guy
The physique I think. 
 
20) My previous affective life
Before 4 years ago, I was searching to discover the female gender, then I experienced great crashes perhaps but just one love, but not deep just as stated previously. 
 
21) My current affective situation
Hard, I think I’m in love with a girl, physically and emotionally, but in the conditions of current emotional instability, the usual crossroad arrived, and I pulled back, you don’t know how much I miss her. 
 
22) My degree of emotional satisfaction
Absolutely sacrificed by this emotional fluctuation in one sense and another. 
 
23) My degree of sexual satisfaction
Satisfying with the female gender, but after a while elusive, the male side I have always lived it in an elusive way and every time I decide to live it, the desire for sex with women returns.
 
24) The weight of sex in my affective world
With women very present and connected with the affective sphere, but I don’t always live it as an absolute necessity, just because I say I can do without it having another type of sex available in which I can take refuge in times when things require a strong emotional investment. 
 
25) What I would like from my boyfriend
I never had a boyfriend, never thought of living in a gay couple situation. 
 
26) What I think I can give to my boyfriend  
See above. 
 
27) My desires in relation to my emotional / sexual life
A little balance, the fear, the suffering of living a state of emotional and sexual precariousness wear me out. I am noticing that over the years I tend to be more and more closed in myself, renouncing the opportunity to live a deep love relationship. 
 
28) My frustrations in relation to my emotional / sexual life
Relate to my desires. 
 
29) What I would like to know about the emotional / sexual life of other gay guys
Experiences similar to mine, if someone experiences my own feelings and upsets. 
 
30) How I consider myself informed about sexual behavior at risk
Very much.
____________
If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-bisexuality-in-an-online-interview

A MARRIED BISEXUAL

LGIAN:

Hello everyone, I need some advice … I am 34 years old, I’ve been married for five years and I’ve been with her for about 15 years. Fortunately, to date without children even if recently we decided to put one in the train! Since I was very young I have always had a totally straight life, the first experiences in adolescence and then the meeting with the woman I chose as a life partner and I have never betrayed with any other woman; nevertheless, I have always understood and appreciated the beauty of the female body, as well as of the masculine one, without ever thinking of being able to desire it physically (and mentally). In the years of university, being distant from my girlfriend and despite living a heterosexual life with her, I often did some simple skype sessions with guys of my age, simple and fast experience! More a physical need than anything else, so I have always interpreted it! About two years ago, at a time when I had moved abroad for 5 months, I re-experienced that experience of those video calls and I – almost inexplicably – discovered that I was pleasing many of the straight-bisexual-gay guys with whom I chatted. I started to like this thing and I continued to talk with some of these guys, leaving everything in the virtual sphere, but in some cases also creating friendships that still today, with great difficulty, I’m trying to carry on. Only once I met a guy much younger than me (19) who had involved me more mentally than physically, but it ended up rapidly  because I had not considered it particularly interesting until … until two months ago, when on a boring morning of work I enter FB and I see a post of a gay friend of mine with a picture taken from a page of a well-known application for gay dating, I’m curious, I download the app and create an account. Shortly thereafter messages from other users began to arrive, asking me to send them a picture of my body and face. After many requests and as many denials, to the umpteenth request I reply a bit “annoyed” attaching the photo: after just a few seconds a guy asks me if by any chance I worked in the society in which I work. I felt my blood freezing, I didn’t realize that this application for mobile phones also indicated the distance between users! Taken a bit from terror, but having now forwarded my full picture, I say yes and so we start to chat and get to know each other. He is my age, a deep look and above all a beautiful body, muscular and lean just as I like it: the male beauty canon that I always liked. After about four days, I decide to meet him to have a coffee and tell him that I’m married and never had a relationship with a man neither had sex with a man. He initially fells a little perplexed for a while, but then he says he likes me and wants to date me. So after a few days, we meet and spend a good – but for me also full of anxiety, so much anxiety – afternoon together, made of tenderness and understanding. I discover that in addition to having a beautiful body he also has a beautiful soul, deep and sensitive, rich and generous! So for about two months now, this relationship goes on and I think I start feeling something – that is not love or at least it is not in the form that I have already experienced with my wife – and if before I thought that it was a sexual need I realized thanks to him that I miss being able to rely on a man, feel his body, his physical proximity, his prestancy and have a comparison from peer to peer. In short, I was looking for all those feelings of security and acceptance that I have always given to my wife and to all the people I love. All this to tell you that … I’m confused! I don’t know how this relationship can evolve with him to whom I feel I cannot give 100% of myself – this hurts me because I feel that I am depriving him of the possibility of enjoying a true and total love – and very often I would want to make my wife participate in the happiness and feeling of completeness that I am reaching thanks to the happiness I am feeling with him. I would like so much to confirm to her that I love her and that the life projects we have done together we will realize them together, but at the same time I would like to convince her of my need to have at my side a man who can reassure me and speak to me as only a man can do. I thought I’d tell her all this, but I know I would hurt her because I know the idea she has of bisexuals (if she tolerate gays, for bisexuals she says they are perverts because they do the “ndo cojo cojo” life [“ndo cojo cojo” is an expression of the Roman dialect which means “where I hit I hit”]) and she wouldn’t deserve it; but above all I doubt she can understand. I desperately need advice, I want to evaluate the situation with your help so as to have more items at hand and, if I had to twist my life, I would like to have the most complete picture of the consequences. Thank you very much for helping!! R.

PROJECT:

Hi lgian, first of all welcome to the forum!! And now let’s move on to the specific question. Your email is “a classic” in the sense that it is very difficult to describe better what true bisexuality is, that is, to experience a deep sexual and emotional involvement both towards men and women. I mean that in most cases there is a dissociation of the affectivity that remains heterosexual from the sexuality that is markedly homosexual, and this involves that an emotional relationship with a man becomes particularly difficult. But in your case affectivity and sexuality are not at all dissociated and then you can experience a real falling in love with a man (which in case of dissociation is not realized). It must be said at once that the true bisexuality, the one like yours, is not a common thing. There are a lot more gays than real bisexuals and certainly a lot more people with a dissociated bisexuality (hetero affectivity and gay sexuality) than really bisexual people. The situation of a bisexual dissociated, paradoxically, is less complicated, because his homosexual needs can be resolved on an occasional basis and put less in crisis the heterosexual life that tends at least at an emotional level to remain stable. For a true bisexual, the presence of a male partner is first of all an emotional necessity and therefore the true bisexual tends to build stable and serious relationships with a man, exactly as he tends to do with a woman, but here arises the real problem, because a serious straight relationship, especially if formalized in marriage, presupposes exclusivity; even a serious gay relationship presupposes exclusivity, although perhaps in a lesser degree than what happens in a marriage relationship, but for a bisexual, and even more for a non-dissociated bisexual, exclusivity is a very heavy forcing. A bisexual, in any case, is faced with a choice: either he leaves his emotional and sexual life very fluid, not only without getting married, but without demanding or trying to achieve stable relationships of any kind, or must necessarily sacrifice half of his own affectivity-sexuality. In a situation like yours there is even a marriage and there is, behind, a heterosexual life that lasted several years and with the assumption both implicit and explicit of stability. Since your life at the time of marriage had always been heterosexual, getting to marriage was almost automatic, I mean that those who know they are gay or bisexual should think about it very well before getting married, in your case you could not predict the evolution of your affectivity-sexuality years later and then nobody can blame you for anything. You have no children, but you say that you are thinking about it, well, given the situation I would try to think about it very well, before, especially because your wife doesn’t know how things really are and very likely couldn’t accept them at all. If there are no children, with all the problems that this can entail, it’s not too much difficult to get to the separation and then to the divorce, but if there are children, problems are likely to become very large, I don’t just mean for you, but especially for children, who are forced to live stressful situations that may have serious psychological implications even after years. Even with a wife aware and willing to have children, the fact of giving birth to a son, for a married bisexual is still problematic, but if the wife is unconscious she may think she has been deceived, not at the time of marriage, but when you yourself have come to the awareness of how things were. Another observation: you are married, and a married man, for a gay is certainly not the best choice, a gay knows very well that getting together with a married man creates many complications and getting together with a married who has children is much more complicated. This means that finding a mate to create a gay couple would not be easy anyway. Generally, when there are children, the only things “realistically” possible are the compromise choices, in which a relationship is created with a man, but let’s say, low profile, more a relationship of amorous friendship than a real couple relationship, because the fundamental requirement is the protection of children. In such a situation even wives are much more cautious in choosing to separate, however it is essential to maintain a clear relationship with one’s wife and try to make her understand how things really are, even at the risk of putting the marriage in crisis. when there are no children, the choices may be less compromise choices, but the fact remains that even a stable gay couple relationship ends up not going well for a true bisexual, because in the end the gay partner doesn’t see the bisexual as a bisexual but he sees him like a gay and expects from him an exclusivity of almost matrimonial type. Realistically one might think of a loving friendship, if the partner is willing to accept a relationship of this kind, what is even possible, if relationship are very free and in any case the bisexual partner should make the effort to talk clearly to his wife, even at risk of undermining marriage, what is less disruptive when there are no children. I know very well that many gay guys don’t accept the fact that I tend to recommend compromise solutions, but they are gay not bisexual guys and above all don’t have the prospect of a married life. But this is honestly what I think and also the synthesis of the similar experiences that emerged from Gay Project. I would advise you to read the chapters on bisexuality and married gays in the book “Being Gay”, which contains several real examples of situations that might be of interest to you.

PUGSEY:

Hi Igian, I’m 33, almost 34, so I can give you a very heartfelt opinion. I am gay, and I accepted myself as such at the age of 23, after a period of bisexual latency that lasted a few years. Live this story that has happened to you, as you like better, however things go, but I want to give you a very spontaneous and immediate advice: since only now you have doubts about your sexuality, avoid conceiving a child with your wife, before you have clarified yourself mentally. Even if a child is always a gift from God, given the situation everything could be emotionally to his detriment in the event of divorce. But in addition, imagine the legal consequences that the thing could have if you divorce from your wife when you have a child (consequences you wouldn’t have if you don’t procreate). If you want to have some advice, we are always ready to give you our opinion in chat. Indeed, I invite you just to enter the chat so we can talk quietly about the confusion that you’re living. Greetings. Pugsley

LGIAN:

Dear Project, Thank you first for providing me with very useful elements regarding my condition of – now I can say it more quietly – true bisexual. From the analysis you have made, it emerges, as usual, that clear and simple situations don’t suit me; on the contrary, in spite of the evident difficulties I had and I will probably continue to have, I’m a bit relieved that you have recognized in me the “true” bisexuality. I spoke often about this condition with him – I will call Enzo – and other chat friends who, and as you describe well in the volume “Being Gay”, have always replied that bisexuality doesn’t exist and that I had to admit that I’m gay: in short, It’s like adding confusion and uncertainty to my already difficult situation! It is a very difficult moment, especially because in addition to my happiness in this case there are also the lives of two other people – my wife and Enzo – for whom, in a different way, I feel a strong and deep feeling. In me, the fear of losing my wife while confessing her my bisexuality is very great as it is very great even the fear of losing Enzo putting him in the face of certainty that up today I cannot guarantee him any relationship of exclusivity.

At the same time, I think I have to talk to my wife about myself, my situation and the fact that I have discovered today not to feel completely myself because a part of me requires something that she cannot give me and I look for in a man. Easy to say … isn’t it? I wonder at this point what the next step may be. How to tell her? Keep silent about the relationship I’m having with Enzo? And then what would happen if she thought that  my so called problems where just transient follies without foundation, given that I have never felt a feeling for a man? Tell her about Enzo? Making her feel even more betrayed? The confusion increases more and more and I’m even more confused about how to act because, reading the volume you have advised me, I understand that even if I found the courage to talk with her the situation wouldn’t anyway know improvements destined to last. In particular, the passage in which you say:

“For bisexuals 50/50 adapt to an exclusive sexuality, be it heterosexual or gay, is a restrictive limitation and in these cases, they realize a half of their sexuality in the couple relationship, but it is difficult to reduce the other half to masturbation only and they actually feel the need also for a couple relationship of the other kind. … Generally a bisexual with a 50% gay propensity, given the social environment in which he lives, will tend to orient himself more to form a heterosexual fixed couple than a gay fixed couple, that would be against the current. In general, for a bisexual, precisely because it is much easier to live a straight couple sexuality, the typical models of the straight couple end up being dominant.”

It seems therefore more a condemnation rather than a road to seek happiness, now aware – and I always thought a little so – that if I had to decide whether to stay with my wife or follow Enzo I would always find myself “not complete”, not adequate, not happy. And yet, it would be so nice to be able to share with people you love your own happiness, to actually be yourself and show that you can love – in different ways and intensities – people of the other and of the same sex. Why does society force us to exclusivity that is to sacrifice ourselves and our feelings? As for the children’s speech, we are in a phase of a bit of a deadlock. Regardless of the considerations on my personal and intimate situation, we are evaluating the thing well because our uncertainties don’t only concern the ability to grow and give love to a possible child but also the fact that he can give us happiness as a couple and as individuals. Happiness is often what we all seek; I, unlike many, have always placed, in my life as a son, husband and friend, the happiness of others before mine and maybe that’s why I have now reached the limit and I’m looking for happiness, I also want it to myself, although I’m aware of not being sure to reach it and having to undertake a difficult path. I don’t know if I have the courage, I should find it, for myself … Thanks again for the patience you have in listening to people who approach this forum and for the professionalism and grace with which you respond to their requests for help and explanation. A really good job!

R.

LGIAN:

Dear Pugsley, thanks very much to you for your heartfelt opinion, but I think also very reasoned, that you wanted to give me. My intention, in this full and total confusion, is to avoid hurting the two people involved, one knowingly – Enzo – and the other without his knowledge – my wife – in this new situation that is upsetting my life. As I told Project, for now the children’s project is a bit on stand-by for different reasons, we often talk about it but still we are not totally convinced and we are procrastinating, although the underlying intention remains, to date. I also gladly accept the advice to come and have a meet people in Project’s chat, even if it will be a bit difficult because the couple’s life allows me to carve out only a few moments of intimacy. Any further advice you will want to give me, even on what I have answered to Project, will be welcome: I really need it!!! Thanks again for the support, R.

PROJECT:

Hello lgian, yes indeed for a bisexual exclusivity is a condemnation and it is a condemnation substantially of social origin. Many things, which are commonly given for granted, as if they were basic laws of life or nature, are really conventions that have crystallized over the centuries and which “objectively” are pure preconceptions. We have a family model based on marriage that is an institution that starts from anything but obvious postulates. The same presumption of being able to constrain feelings by creating legal obligations for affectivity and sexuality is absurd. One can be obliged for the future (and for short periods) to do a job or to pay an amount of money, but certainly not to love a person. The marriage failures in Italy are now more than 50% of marriages, more than 50% of marriages end in separations and divorces, a sign that the institution is based on incongruous assumptions. The logic of marriage is “all or nothing”, or 100% love and always or marriage doesn’t exist, but reality is completely different, love can be 70% or 50% and even less but it is still love. The speech is also valid in the gay field, all gay guys, at the beginning, dream of stories like that of charming prince and of an overwhelming and eternal love, then slowly learn to leave the world of fairy tales and keep the feet on the ground in the world of reality. Lots of gay people stop looking for a mate, because the life of a married couple can also be good if there are certain indispensable assumptions, that is, if the couple is a real “spontaneous” exclusive couple, which is however very rare. The legal recognition of homosexual marriage is fine for the recognition of equal rights but, as happened in Spain, the number of homosexual marriages will certainly be low, and it should be added that if it were high due to social pressure, as happens among straight people, it would face the same pathologies of heterosexual marriage and a similar proportion of divorces and separations would arrive. In the hetero world, marriage, in theory, aims to protect children (as if to force parents to stay together by law was the best situation for children!), but in the gay world where the hypothesis of children is marginal, the legal obligation would be counterbalanced only by economic advantages such as the reversibility of the pension, which however could be linked, rather than to marriage, to the assumption of obligations of mutual assistance, because often marriages, with the years, become only this. Today as today the claim of exclusivity exists and I think that things will remain so for many years. But what can be done to make it clear to a wife who has grown up in the marriage myth that a bisexual man can feel forced into an exclusive relationship? Is it possible to require that this woman reasons with a mentality that would be in radical disagreement with the age-old tradition of her family and society? Frankly it is hard to believe that it can work. I have also seen, very rarely, women who have adapted to a similar situation, but I must say that they have suffered a lot. On the other hand, putting one foot in two shoes is not even a viable solution because it is basically a deception towards the wife. And there is also another complication because talking freely to one’s own wife involves that then she will talk “confidentially” with parents and other family members and they, always “confidentially” will talk with others, until everyone will know not how things really are but that you’re a weird, you have strange ideas in mind, you do strange things, etc. etc. On the other hand, the alternative is to close the other half of one’s affectivity and sexuality altogether into the closet, self-repressing oneself to try to save the marriage, what in the long run would make marriage itself oppressive and unbearable. Last observation: between the discovery of one’s own gay side and the possibility of creating a “stable but not exclusive” story with a man there is an abyss, seen from the outside it seems easy but the problems always appear later. In conclusion it is a very complicated situation that will still lead you to sacrifice something because, they can say or deny it, both your wife and the man you are interested in will not be satisfied with 50% of you.

TORALBA:

Hello lgian, My horizon of experiences is essentially different from yours. To express an opinion on the situation, at least for me, would be at least risky. I fully agree with what they have highlighted both Project and Pugsley, and that is that the situation in which you find yourself deserves a deep reflection, especially about the possibility that you and your wife want to have children. The only thing I can really tell you is to reflect on how you imagine your future life and how you would really feel. You could, it is true, live a double life, made of your wife’s emotional response and, at the same time, of Enzo or any boy with whom you would possibly feel on the same wavelength. But could you really manage to endure and live such a complicated and anxiety-provoking relationship? I find it difficult to imagine a double life that is really satisfying and lived in a very peaceful way. As you speak, it is clear that the feelings both towards your wife and Enzo are sincere, but you yourself felt the need to put yourself in their shoes: what is the life they want? Your wife wants an exclusive relationship with the crowning of the children. Enzo, presumably, in the long run could demand a more exclusive relationship from you. Their idea of life and their emotional needs must be respected as much as yours, for this reason as central question arises the question related to which life you really desire. In your situation, I sincerely wouldn’t know how to behave. Personally I try to be always honest with people, so I would probably try to be clear with my wife. But it is a purely hypothetical and theoretical reasoning that, if I were to live it, I would not really know how to deal with it. Life is always much more complicated than any theory. Obviously this is not the suggestion I give you. Taking a step like this involves real risks that are beyond our control. But at the same time, the relationship with your wife has already changed profoundly.

Best wishes.

ALYOSHA:

I share many of the things that those who preceded me wrote to you. As I see it personally, the discourse on your sexual orientation could however be reductive. Just a few days ago had been published on this forum a mail of a guy who seems to have built an emotional relationship with two other guys and he was also faced with the dilemma of having to decide what to do and, like you, he seemed to experience  feelings toward both guys who for different reasons satisfied different sides of him. Even he, like you, fantasized about a possible unlikely relationship with three partners, unlikely not only for social problems but because of the evident difficulty that each of us feels having to accept that he is not enough. Of similar situations in hetero version then you can find as many as you like. I would therefore invite you to separate the moment of awareness of your sexuality from the concrete situation in which you are stuck and from which you can only go out blowing up the desk. It is clear that your wife will never accept the situation and in this regard I invite you to read the many stories of girls who shared their experiences in this forum. These are confused women, who have difficulty with accepting their partner’s homosexuality, and don’t accept at all that they cannot help him. Such situations are certainly complicated by your condition that is already unclear in itself, because you would go on to communicate that you are bisexual. It is not even clear how much the boy in question is aware of your bisexuality and would seriously agree to share you with your wife and how much rather he is waiting for you to make a clear decision, perhaps hoping that saying it to her you would interrupt the relationship with your wife to start an exclusive relationship with him. You dwell on the matter just a little, but from what you wrote it seems to me you have already found yourself in the condition of having to explain to him that the relationship with him don’t make you feel 100% complete and I can suppose that he didn’t take it well. Unfortunately you didn’t introduce yourself as a bisexual to both of them, and they didn’t have the chance to decide to deal with a bisexual, that is, they didn’t realize that it could happen at any moment that they should have to share you with other people. You have experienced asymmetrical relationships in which surely your wife has remained in the dark about everything, but even the guy could have hoped until the end that you were actually a confused homosexual. If in the meantime this confusion has disappeared, at least you could clarify your sexuality and, believe me, it is not a little thing. In my opinion the last thing you can hope for is a three-way relationship because in this way you should expect the situation to become explosive. Only you can choose what to do, whether to say everything clearly or to aspire to some form of compromise with the situation. But if you found yourself in this situation at a time when you and your wife were planning for a child, it’s probably because you don’t like this compromise and if you realize this it’s better to interrupt the relationship now than later in the presence of children. I’m sorry because I realize that for a bisexual it is even easier to hide one’s sexuality and this does not simplify things at all.

LGIAN:

This last week when I tried to understand the situation that I was living, I was abroad for work. I and Enzo had met last Friday for the last time, it had been a nice and long afternoon taken away from work – and partly from my wife – where we had made love and talked, intimately as we often did. It has been a long week, a week full of thoughts, many, about the situation I am experiencing and of silences, many, of Enzo. Since last Saturday I have perceived his distance; he was absent for the whole day, he didn’t respond to my messages, he closed himself and he replied in an almost monosyllabic manner to my greetings: I understood that something had happened, that something had changed. And the week went on a little like this, with me looking for him and with him that could be found, yes, but always with an infinite distance between us. Yesterday I returned to the city after this week of travel and I rushed to him in a state of evident tension; the reception was just like I expected it: not to see him waiting for me at the door made me realize in an instant how distant, far away, but firm and decided was his soul. We had tea, we talked and confirmed what I had felt – and that you yourself had foreseen – this situation made of his expectations and the impossibility of living with me a normal relationship was hurting him and, for his own good, he decided it was better if the thing ended there. The words were different, the sense very clear and reasoned: so reasoned that I could not tell him anything, except that he was right, with an infinite sadness in the heart, and deep sense of emptiness that I tried and I’m trying. He told me that he had come to this choice after the last conversations we had last Friday when I would have said that I certainly wouldn’t be able to offer him what he wanted and that I would never leave my wife. When he reminded me of what I said, honestly, I was a bit upset because it’s been weeks that on the contrary I’m questioning myself, about my marriage and my life; I don’t remember so much firmness in my words and I’m really sorry they hurt him and made him feel lonely. What I certainly told him on Friday is that the Enzo that I knew and I care so much deserves to live a beautiful love story without all the complications that I have brought with my life in his life. This yes, I said it, to my detriment but to his advantage: not to remove him from me, but because knowing that he was not totally happy “thanks” to me, has always made me feel even more sad and insecure. He really is a special guy and deserves more, much more, than I can offer him today and have given him to this day. So I acknowledge my faults, but yesterday one of his affirmations hurt me: the meaning was “you never told me the truth, one day you said you wanted me, the other you could not assure me anything, I cannot believe a person like you.” This, yes, hurts me, because if there is one thing that I have always put at the center of our relationship this is the full and total sincerity, certainly not lies: it is the confusion I am experiencing that, perhaps, doesn’t lead me to always make firm decisions and to act accordingly, but I never wanted to make fun of him, take advantage of him and lie to him. I’m not that kind of person and I would never have behaved like that with someone I love. He told me that each of us must take his time to think about himself, while remaining a friendly relationship, whose evolution I honestly don’t know where it will lead. Speaking about me, he said that I must now think about how to solve the profound crisis I am experiencing with my wife; I’m not sure of this statement. I don’t feel that I’m experiencing any couple crisis, but simply an internal and deeply intimate crisis of mine due to the necessity of having to complete myself sharing my life even with a man, not so much from a sexual point of view – that I like, it’s obvious – but above all mental and sentimental. To explain to him my strong need to have even a man next to me I told him something simple, and effective for me: I need to experience every now and then the sense of “masculine” security that my hug gives my wife, lifting me at least for a few moments from the responsibility of having to always be the one who supports others. But I think that here I would return to the talk about bisexuality and the difficulties that a bisexual like me lives and will have to live. I don’t think that the relationship with my wife has changed in the years or in these months, the mental understanding is always alive like the sexual one; obviously in these months my mind has been occupied by the idea of taking care also of Enzo and of our relationship, I don’t hide it, but I’m not sure that this could make our marriage a marriage in crisis. I will need time to keep thinking about this too. Yesterday as I went down the stairs of his house, I felt a huge distance. I share his choice, his words, his motivations; I share them even though I know have to face the existence of an emptiness inside me and the awareness of having to continue to look inside myself to try to understand how I imagine my future and what priorities I have to give myself. It will not be easy, because the choices are not easy, and at this point I’m not even convinced I’ll ever be able to pursue my total happiness. Now I have to take some time, silent, to think of myself and free my mind a little. Being able to love two people is a beautiful feeling and I, at this point, I can say I tried it, in different ways and forms, but I tried it and I’m happy with that. Too bad it is not possible to manage its evolution avoiding to harm others. Enzo will remain an important person who has passed through my life and who could continue to play an important role as a friend. I say it will be difficult because I don’t know how I can actually react to this new situation and to the lack of his hugs and his smiles.

Today I will see him at work and we said that even today, as we did in the last two months, we will have breakfast together and I will try to show myself peaceful and quiet, today it will be a constraint for me, but over time I hope he returns to those states of mind. I’m sorry I hurt him, but the affection I have for him has always been so much and will be so in the future, I’m almost certain. I have always told him that “it would have been better for both of us if in that application I knew someone interested only in a sexual encounter and not a beautiful person like you”. In reality today I think exactly the opposite: it was nice to know him, meet him, make love with him, discover with a person like him a part of me that was always hidden. I will always bring a good memory of this experience and I am sure I will always be moved by thinking of him and the intimacy we have reached, more mental than physical.

Hi, R.

PROJECT:

Hi lgian, from what you write I understand that Enzo doesn’t see you as a bisexual but as a gay man, something very common in situations of this kind. He expects from you the typical reactions of a married gay who at some point goes into crisis with his wife because he decides to give space to his homosexuality, but you are not in crisis with your wife, apart from the fact that you say it explicitly, you’re not exactly because you’re bisexual and for you an openness to gay affectivity certainly does not undermine a marriage. For you it is nice to love two people and you don’t ask yourself at all the problem of the choice between Enzo and your wife. Will Enzo disappear completely from your life? Well … first of all, as for you, whatever happens, you will not forget him, because you know very well that his going away is not a betrayal but an impossibility and as for him, over time, he could also realize that you also didn’t betray him and you didn’t lie to him and in this case he could very well try to recreate a relationship even if on other bases, I’m talking about a friendship that is never a trivial thing, but if he had found a possessive partner he could also end up moving away permanently. In any case, from these experiences you two learn a lot on both sides and you learn above all to understand that the other is really another and that he has his dreams and his projects and sometimes it is difficult to reconcile different ways of seeing the affective life. I ask you to include this whole discussion (starting from your opening post) in the book “Being Gay”, as a document attached to the chapter on bisexuality, because I think this discussion clarifies many concepts and can be extremely useful to several people. Let me know what you think. Obviously, if you don’t agree, nothing will be done.

LGIAN:

Dear Project, sorry if I answer you after such a long time, but I have had busy weeks, both from a business and sentimental point of view! The important thing is that I’m continuing to hear from Enzo and see him. Thanks to your forum, we have spoken more intensely about my / our situation and we are trying to carry on our relationship, even if both with the awareness of not being able to understand and hypothesize the evolution of our relationship. I’m very happy, I admit it, because the feeling I feel is strong and being able to talk to him, to feel his body, to love him, is a wonderful feeling that completes me! As for my story, I’m glad if it can help and support other guys in similar situations. So you can safely use it and publish it in the book “Being Gay”. Greetings and thanks again for the support!

R.

PROJECT:

Hi lgian! I am really pleased to know that your relationship with Enzo continues. This is an uncommon fact that suggests that at the base there is something that is still very strong. Certainly the prospects for the future are not at all obvious but your relationship has resisted the first shocks and this suggests that it could even last in spite of everything. Then there is a big question mark: very balanced bisexuality, yes, of course, but what you write about Enzo suggests that there is a gay prevalence and, if it’s so, building a lasting relationship with Enzo becomes a hypothesis much less unreal. Thank you for publishing permission, I will provide as soon as possible!

____________
If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-a-married-bisexual