SEX IN GAY-HETERO RELATIONSHIPS

Many gay guys, before being fully aware of being gay or before totally accepting themselves as gays, have had heterosexual experiences, and sometimes have continued to have relationships with girls even after they became fully aware of being gay. Very often the awareness of one’s own homosexuality is acquired by reflecting on the fact that spontaneous sexuality of masturbation is oriented towards guys even if the couple sexuality is hetero. The mere fact that a guy has straight sex intercourses is therefore certainly not enough to qualify that guy as a heterosexual. I would add that when a guy, who will ultimately accept his exclusive homosexuality but is not yet fully aware of it, looks for a girl, due to an unconscious defense mechanism, tends to choose her not very motivated towards sexuality and devoid of sexual experiences, so that she cannot make comparisons between his sexual behavior and that of other guys.

Let’s get on the side of the girl, now. It is evident that in a sexual relationship with a guy, who behaves like a hetero but is not heterosexual, a girl who has a minimum of experience of heterosexual sexuality feels something uncertain, hesitant, feels a reluctance of the guy to her insistence more than a primary sexual desire on the part of the guy. Here is the point. A gay man can also, in certain very special situations, experience sexual interest and even excitement for a woman to the point of having satisfactory sexual intercourses with her, but that is not his primary choice, his sexual fantasies remain gay, his masturbation remains gay almost always 100% even during the sexual relationship.

For a gay, this reasoning, applied to sexual intercourse with a girl, is flawless: the guy is and remains gay, has more or less satisfactory heterosexual intercourses, the girl if she is not very interested in sex can also accept the things in these terms, but a discourse that is in many ways symmetrical to the one just done can also be applied to sexual relations between a straight guy and a gay guy. I mean that assuming that a guy who has sex with another guy is necessarily gay is just like assuming that a guy who has sex with a girl is necessarily straight, things that both don’t hold up. As a gay guy under certain circumstances can experience sexual interest in a girl, a heterosexual guy, under certain circumstances, can experience sexual interest in a guy. That hetero guy will remain heterosexual even if it will have sexual contact with a guy, his primary sexuality, his masturbation and his sexual fantasies will remain directed towards girls almost always 100% even in the period in which the sexual contacts are sometimes realized with another guy.

In the case just described of a heterosexual guy who has sexual intercourses with a gay guy, let’s put on the side of the gay guy, it is obvious that the gay guy will feel that the sexual interest that the hetero guy shows towards him is not symmetrical to his, because the sexuality of the straight guy has been structured over the years on other sexual fantasies that are now extrapolated to the gay field but are not originally gay. I’m saying that while it is quite peaceful that a gay guy can have sex with a girl, it is not as peaceful that a heterosexual guy can have sex with a guy, and it is almost assumed as granted that a guy who has sex with another guy is really gay.

But heterosexuals who have sex even with guys exist and are not very few. To gays they seem gay but they are not, their primary sexuality and their masturbation is and remains oriented towards girls. Exactly like a guy who has sex with a girl he can seem straight to that girl just because he has sex with her but it’s not at all said that he is.

Having premised this. I come to the central topic of the chapter. It sometimes happens that a gay guy falls in love with a friend declared to be straight and, slowly, by insistence, manages to induce him to have some sexual contact with him. This thing that appears to the gay guy an exalting moment, when it happens, shows all its weak sides. The gay feels something unusual, originally not gay, not corresponding to the sexual fantasies typical of a gay guy, that is to his own sexual fantasies. The first element that sounds out of tune for a gay is the disinterestedness of one partner for the other partner’s penis, or a weak interest, more manifested than felt, induced only by not wanting to appear disinterested and often perceived by the gay guy as unnatural and recited.

The hetero guy doesn’t usually masturbate the gay guy, but on the contrary likes being masturbated by him, the straight guy is available for oral sex but only if practiced on his penis while he is extremely reluctant to swap roles. But there is more, sexual intercourse focuses on what the gay guy has less masculine, in practice the gay realizes not to embody the primary sexual interest of his partner and to be for him only the “substitute of a girl”, however, he continues to consider his partner a strange gay rather than a straight guy.

I add that often, after contacts of this kind, gay guys try to insist on creating other occasions for meeting while hetero guys shows strong resistance and certainly don’t take initiatives. It follows that it would be appropriate to remember that as there are gays who, in particular situations, sometimes go also with the girls, remaining anyway gay in all respects, there are also hetero guys who, in particular situations, sometimes go also with the guys remaining straight in all respects.

When a gay guy is faced with a guy who is clearly heterosexual but available to have a sexual contact with him, I’m saying available, which doesn’t mean interested, that is, when a gay guy meets a guy who eventually accepts a sexual contact but doesn’t take initiatives, he think automatically of being in front of a gay guy who is becoming aware of his sexual orientation; he should instead understand that in all likelihood he is in front of a heterosexual guy available to have also gay sexual contacts, in very special circumstances, obviously remaining 100% hetero.

In situations like these, to build a serious relationship something misses, there is a lack of basic reciprocity because the primary sexual interests are different and the hypothesis that you can create a truly important emotional world that can turn into a true couple relationship is objectively baseless. For a gay guy, it’s often very difficult and painful to realize it, because he is forced to understand that a story that seemed to have reached its peak isn’t even a story and that fantasy led him to get away from reality.

Sexuality to be really satisfying must be authentically shared. The sexual balance of a gay couple is based on sexual affinities, that is on a set of sexual desires and fantasies common to the two partners. In general, gay guys are clearly aware of how sexual archetypes of straight guys hare different from theirs own and they perceive it simply talking with their straight friends. But when a gay guy glimpses in one of his friends clearly hetero some glimpse that suggests that this friend could also be available to a gay sexual contact, the gay guy’s mind goes haywire and the projections and increasing expectations dominate the field.

Then when some sexual contact is realized, the gay guy, who hadn’t wanted to take note of the heterosexuality of the other, finally awakens from his illusions and realizes that there is something that doesn’t work.

The tendency to project oneself far away by satisfying one’s own desires ends up legitimizing completely unrealistic expectations. Often, in gay-hetero relationships that also involve sexual contacts between the two guys, the gay guy tends not to see reality and literally stops thinking. The expression: “we had sex together therefor he cannot be straight, even if he always repeats it” is completely superimposable to similar phrases that girls fallen in love with gay guys use to claim that their boyfriend is straight. The mechanisms through which a gay-hetero relationship between two guys in born are completely analogous to those that lead a gay guy to stay with a girl. The story starts from friendship, often sexualized on one side only (the gay guy masturbates while thinking of his friend, but the straight guy continues to masturbate thinking about girls), then there are increasingly intense occasions for intimacy that to the gay guy appear as a clear sign that the other is gay while to the hetero guy appear only as forms of close friendship and nothing more.

It’s easy to get to para-sexual situations, as shared showers in sports environments, casual nudity without embarrassment and the like, to which the gay guy attributes much meaning and that for the hetero are completely insignificant things, and so sometimes it’s also possible to get to a sexual intercourse that is acceptable for a hetero just because he doesn’t see it as a gay conversion (and it is not in fact) but as a trivial thing to which no particular significance is attached, maybe as a form of generosity towards a friend who needs it.

To build a serious gay story it is not enough that the two guys are gay, that is just a necessary condition, certainly not sufficient, but it is a necessary condition, they must really be two gay guys and the fact that between two guys there have been sexual intercourses absolutely doesn’t allow to conclude that they are both really gay. Sexual orientation is not a question of behavior but of drives and desires. In the e-mails I receive and in the chats with the guys, it often emerges not only the idea that a guy is automatically considered gay only for the fact that he accepts an explicit sexual contact with another guy, but even that “if he accepts a sexual contact with me he is in love with me.” Behind this statement there is a tendency to read explicit sex as an “essential part” of a gay relationship and at the same time there is the underestimation of the typically affective dimension.

Whoever says “if he has sex with me is in love with me” takes for granted the identity between sex and love. If on one hand it is understandable that a gay guy in love with a friend tries to get to a sexual contact with him, it is necessary that the guy in love understands that his friend may not be in love with him, and may not even be gay even if he can end up accepting sexual contact with another guy.

Sexual costume is changing and behaviors that were unthinkable 40 years ago now begin to spread and many taboos collapse, worn down by the passage of time. Today the embarrassment in talking about masturbation practically doesn’t exist anymore and the taboo of nudity is largely reduced. From the straight guys the taboo related to sexual contacts with other guys is often exceeded, both at the level of gay games between straight guys and also at the level of sexual couple contacts that are undoubtedly much more similar to a real gay relationship than to simple sexual games. In other words, today for a straight guy the idea of being able to have a contact, even sexual, with another guy, even an explicitly gay guy, is no longer an insurmountable taboo.

I met via chat straight guys who loved a gay friend of theirs and ended up accepting sexual contact with their gay friend. It was often about sexual contacts deeply wanted and desired only on the side of the gay guy and accepted by the straight guy as a kind of gratification to give to his gay friend. In these relationships there is no real sexual reciprocity even at the minimum level. This fact allows the hetero guy to participate in a homosexual contact in some way safeguarding his hetero identity through altruistic motivations.

The essence of these discourses is that a straight guy may very well be involved in sexual contacts with another guy, but the straight guy remains anyway a straight guy, his sexuality doesn’t change because he participated sometimes to some gay sexual intercourse.

Basically a straight guy can accept a sexual contact with another guy for two reasons that are substantially different but that are not mutually exclusive and even sometimes integrate:

1) For play.
2) For emotional reasons.

But why does a straight guy tend to form a strong friendship with a boy more or less explicitly gay? The answers can be many:

1) Because he feels the affection of his gay friend and is gratified, he feels loved and desired and perceives the attention of the other.
2) Because he has nothing better to do or feels a sense of loneliness that is relieved by the presence of a gay friend.
3) Because the gay friend is insistent and courts wildly the straight guy.
4) Because, apart from sexual orientation, between the two guys there is a close affinity of views.
5) Because the friendship between the two guys goes back to early adolescence.
6) Because the gay guy is interested in listening and the straight guy needs to talk.

Too often gay guys tend to divide the world into gay and straight as if this division marks a clear birder line between the two groups and especially between the social behaviors of the two groups. In reality, if this border line exists objectively in terms of sexual orientation, even if not 100% in terms of sexual behavior, as we have seen, it certainly has no reason to exist in many other fields that don’t involve sexuality. It is precisely for this reason that gay-hetero friendships exist and are often very tight; even if they are not symmetrical these relationships can find deep motivations on both sides.

It should be borne in mind that the development of a gay relationship is never the outcome of a one-sided strategy, it is not a chess game and there is no winning strategy. To see a story of love as the story of a conquest means to read it as an unequal relationship in which there is a conqueror and there is a conquered and this is a typical legacy of a culture that is not only heterosexual but properly male chauvinist.

In the gay world, where two guys start on an equal footing, the relationship is built in two, I mean that if you are not really two to cooperate in building a serious emotional relationship, the relationship, admitted and not granted that it can be born, however, is born on very fragile bases. Many gay guys cannot conceive true friendships with a guy and they intend the friendship with a guy exclusively as a necessary step of a strategy of conquest that has as its target the realization of a sexual contact.

Starting from this point of view the emotional dimension is automatically subordinated to the realization of a sexual contact and the sexual intercourse is seen as a necessary condition for the construction of a serious emotional relationship. In this way the natural order of things is reversed, the construction of a serious emotional relationship is postponed and subordinated to sexuality. Obviously these attitudes heavily affect the relationships of gay-hetero friendship and tend to forcibly transform them into something that resembles a couple relationship.

The inability to accept friendship with another guy if not as a first step of the attempt to involve that guy from a sexual point of view, deprives many gay guys of male friendship, in the great majority of cases with straight guys but also with gay guys, and it must be kept in mind that this types of friendships is absolutely essential for the emotional balance of a gay guy.

In a gay-hetero relationship, the attempt to sexualize the relationship of friendship starts from the gay guy who tends to read the behavior of his partner as a path towards the awareness of being gay, that is, he tends to apply his interpretive canons to another guy. Here are some typical reasons:

1) He’s a latent gay, he’s still not aware of being gay but I’ll help him on his way and I’ll let him discover his true nature.
2) After all, he’s gay but he doesn’t want to accept it, a straight guy would never do so many of the things he does.
3) He’s at least bisexual because he has never approached a girl in a serious way and this means something.

It is evident that the attempt to sexualize the relationship presupposes the identification a friend at least as a potential gay. Otherwise the attempt would be a priori condemned to failure.

The point of view of the heterosexual guy who deliberately accepts a sexual contact with a gay friend of his can be roughly summarized as follows:

1) My friend is gay but he is a good guy and I love him. He is in love with me, I don’t feel seriously involved in this fact but don’t feel even rejected by it. If I can make love with a girls I’m not interested in, then I can make love also with him, I’m not interest in him sexually but I feel him very similar from many other points of view.
2) I do it for him, as far as I am concerned, I can only be involved on a physical level, but my sexuality is really another. I don’t feel less hetero for the fact that I can make a friend happy in a way that costs me nothing.
3) With my gay friend in the end there is clarity, he knows I’m straight, I do not think he can feel tied to me in a morbid way.

I report below with some minor changes a mail that was sent to me on June 21st 2009.

“Hello Project, I’m a straight guy 20 years old, I have a gay friend of mine (let’s call him Mark) and I’d like to tell you what happened between us. I state that I have never had doubts about my sexuality. For reasons that you will understand by reading the following I found your project and I read a lot of what you wrote and I saw my idea of being heterosexual even more strengthened. In short, I don’t have anything gay, this to avoid misunderstandings, sorry if I do this remark, I have nothing against gays but I’m not gay.

When we were 19, my friend Mark clearly told me he was gay. This didn’t upset me at all, we were always very close, gym together since we were 14 years old, school mates on the same faculty, study together to do the take the same exams. I didn’t realize then that Mark in confessing that he was gay had tried to make me understand that he had fallen in love with me.

I didn’t understand it at that time and continued to treat it as usual. Things between us, however, were no longer as before. When he was with me he was embarrassed, he was not looking at me, he was much more formal. One day I saw him really bad and I tried to make him talk. I had thought he had an emotional life at least minimal, but it was not like that. We were in the car and when I saw him uncomfortable I took his hand and I held it, he bit his lips until they bleed, then he started crying and told me about himself (and me) open heart. It was a very intense moment, he tended to move away from me and to tell me that I had to go my way, he told me that since I’m not gay, there would never be anything between us, but I loved Mark, like a brother, but I loved him, and I tried to make him understand, but he tended to interpret every affectionate gesture as an element to question my heterosexuality.

In short, it was not easy and it went on like this for months. Then he came to his mind the idea that if I had sex with him I would have realized that I was gay because he told me that only a gay guy could love him as I did. He insisted a lot. I told him that nothing would have changed between us and that I was straight and straight I would stay. He literally begged me to try and I finally said yes.

I had thought, at least at the beginning, that from the sexual point of view our intercourse wouldn’t create big embarrassments. I didn’t know how things would have gone, but in fact I felt that it was not my world and he felt it too. So it ended with a mutual masturbation a bit clumsy then he looked at me and told me that he had understood. The story of the sexual intercourse was over.

Why do I write you this email? The reason is that after that day our relationship is fading, he doesn’t look for me anymore, when I look for him, he escapes me. Once he met me while I was walking with my girlfriend and he changed the road and I was very sorry. I love Mark but I think that what I can offer him doesn’t interest him, when I talk to him he smiles ironically as if to say that it is not what he wants from me, but I can give him only that.

Project, but why do gay guys bring everything back to the common denominator of sex? I don’t want to lose Mark, for me he’s important, what can I do to make him understand that having a friend like him is important to me? Among other things, I think he was very ashamed of having insisted so much to do a little sex with me, he feels guilty and I see it very well, as if he had raped me or something like that, but I never considered this way what happened between us, I would like him to understand it but he doesn’t listen to me. Why cannot he understand that sex is not everything in life? Project, let me know what you think. It is almost absurd that I write to you for this reason but for me Mark is important and I know that you can understand me without misunderstandings.

Andrew”

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-sex-in-gay-hetero-relationships

GAY SEX AND VIOLENCE

Hello Project, last night I told you in the chat something of my story and I liked the attitude you had, you have not shot judgments and you’ve been listening and in the end you also told me things that I didn’t expect, so I have rewritten my story, if you think it can serve something, let publish it, but I would still like you to read it and let me know by e-mail, privately, what you think, put it on the blog, on the forum, where you like, but don’t comment it, then I’ll explain to you why. Don’t get angry if I didn’t give you my contact, but I don’t know you well yet and I prefer to go slowly, but I thank you for giving me yours. Last night I felt more relieved. I think I will contact you again. If you want to publish this mail do it but anonymously. Please, before publishing it, correct the errors that I have certainly made. Thank you.

Letter signed with name and surname.

I’m a guy 22 y. o., call me Julius, it’s not my name but I like it. I’ve always been gay, since I remember something, let’s say 13-14 years old. I do not have a good relationship with my parents, they are good people and they think that I’m only a rebel, someone who will end up badly anyway, they really think so. My father at the beginning got angry with me a lot of times, now he doesn’t do it anymore because he thinks it’s completely useless. I feel like a rebel, sometimes I would like to break everything, I cannot stand hypocrisy and instead I have to live in the middle of hypocrisy. My parents know nothing about me, I’ve always been very aggressive with them, but I’ve never talked about my private facts.

Already at the age of 16 I left home for a while without my parents know, I got some money from my parents (I stole them in practice) and hitchhiked around. Then I came back home after spending all the money to have fun, to drink and more. When I got home, my father stayed there like an imbecile, I expected him to beat me but he didn’t, he was afraid, he behaved like a coward. At school it was a disaster, they sent me to an absurd school but I did not give a damn and I almost never went there, but at the age 20 I was able to take pass my graduation exams.

Even if I smashed everything and I was also violent I always dreamed that someone would take me with sweetness in spite of everything, to one of this kind I would have given the soul, but I found only people who screamed against me and chased me away badly. I was assuming the worst possible behaviors, just to provoke people.

I’ve dreamed of having a boy since I was 14 but I’ve never had one, I fell in love with somebody but they got scared and they were not able to understand what I’m under the peel, because I think I can really love a guy in a very strong way. I live in a seaside area and not far from my house there is a campsite, they opened it four years ago and access in practice is free for anyone. I used to go there for a walk several times because there are often young guys at the campsite and I dreamed that some of them could fall in love with me. And then, I say it clear, I used to go there because I liked being among those people, a half were foreigners and at sea site they disrobed outdoors in an absolute natural way. These things made my blood boil.

I didn’t have any chance with foreigners because I don’t speak any foreign language, with the Italians sometimes I was brave and tried to approach. I am from the south, but between those of the south and those of the north I prefer those of the north, they are less nosy, they are really guys I like a lot physically. I’m dark haired and a little dark of general complexion but I like very much the guys from the north.

Going to the campsite and the beach, sometimes I happened to have interesting meetings. Three or four times they invited me to eat with them, we had a bath together, even without swimsuit, and then we were singing on the beach until late at night. These guys told me that I was very sweet and I liked it very much. I have dreamed so many times to be able to have sex with some of these guys but it never happened, with me they were casual, friendly, but maybe they were not even gay, even if I always put myself in groups where there were no girls.

Once I found a gay man and I thought that something could be done. I did something I had never done, I told him I was gay and he told me he was gay too, then I tried a very hesitant physical approach, but he told me he didn’t want to do that, he had a boyfriend in Mantua and that was the guy he loved. I told him that this guy was really lucky.

He gave me only a small kiss, then he left the next day, now we are still in contact on msn. It was the best thing that has happened to me in my life, even if it was a refusal. I admire the guys like him.

In the village people knew that I was doing only what I liked better, that I didn’t come home in the evening, and slowly a kind of legend of the monster was created. If you add that they had never seen me with a girl, I became the gay monster of the country, to the point that they really avoided me, the mothers thought I was going around rape the kids and when they saw me they ran away. I went on like this until I was 21. At the age of 21, they gave me a job in a warehouse of building materials, with a salary to die of hunger, but for me it was very much, I never had had any money.

The owner was a gentleman whom you could hardly see, he had a nice car and when he came he was very respected, he was about 45 years old, married with two sons, a 18-year-old boy, who was very handsome, and a girl 10 y.o.. The owner’s son’s name was Salvatore, I had seen him a couple of times, but he was the son of the owner I was the last of the keepers, so there was little to do. We exchanged a few glances and maybe that guy wasn’t absolutely at ease with his father, we even exchanged a few words but only a couple of times.

The first time the father had left do and we talked more, Salvatore was respectful to me, he treated me on a par, he told me that he was very uncomfortable with his father. I told him that I was gay and I saw that he had a flash in his eyes, he didn’t say he was gay too but I perceived clearly that he was interested. Then they called me to send me with a truck to unload and we broke up.

The second time, when he saw me he smiled at me, then his father came and called his son in such a violent way that I felt uncomfortable for him. The owner didn’t say anything to me but later I didn’t see either the father or the son.

For me, no love at all, not even sex, nothing at all, now there was no longer even the campsite, I had just to work as a slave from morning to night.

Once in the village a man began to tell false things against me offending and threatening me, one got in the middle and defended me. I really didn’t expect it. After a few days I saw him again, we talked a little, he’s married, he’s 41, but he was nice to me, he treated me well, on a Sunday he invited me to lunch outside. It seemed strange on his part to leave his wife at home to go out with me but I was glad, nobody had ever done such a thing. I told him I was gay and he replied that he knew it but that it didn’t cause him any problems. In short, it was not my type and I did not feel really attracted to him, after all I knew where it was going to end and basically accepted it.

With me he was kind, I felt loved. I do it shortly, because where it ends up is clear. One day he tells me if I want to spend with him Saturday and Sunday. Saturday and Sunday also meant the night together, I had understood very well, but for me it was the first time and the idea that maybe such an occasion would not have been created any more I had it. So I went there. He took me for dinner to a restaurant very far from where we live and then we went to his house in the country, a nice place very well arranged. It was obvious that we had to have sex there, we went there on purpose.

He starts to come forward but in a way that I don’t like at all, seeing him in that situation really makes me sick. I tried to tell him in every way that I didn’t feel like it. First he tried to insist with the good manners but given that I tried to avoid him in every way at the end he really beat me violently and forced me to stay there anyway, in practice I was raped by this man. It is true that I had somehow pushed him in every way but he didn’t have to behave like that. A couple of days after, I thought back to a detail that seemed to me very important to calm me down because I was terrified of the fear of diseases, when he decided to do what he did he told me in dialect: “You are a fagot of shit and you made the worst filth with all those like you, but I don’t want to take your ills … ” and he wore a condom.

It was a terrible experience, something I would not wish even for my worst enemy. When he finished he reloaded me into the car with violence and dumped me under my house.

I still carry inside me the sense of deep disgust I felt and I think I will never forget it. This was my first sexual experience with a man. For me it is like a kind of nightmare that always accompanies me. The man, after, has stayed away and did well, because if I had found myself in front of him I don’t know what level of violent reaction I could have put into practice, but surely I would react violently. Of this fact I spoke only to three people: to the guy I had met at the campsite, to a straight friend who has always respected me and to Project, and Project had the dignity of being quiet and not making comments. I feel like a fool because it was I the one who entered that mess without foreseeing where it would end up or, what is even worst, the one who accepted it as a fool, but when everybody leaves you and you don’t know where to bang your head you can do the most crazy things. I don’t know if I can ever accept gay sex as a positive thing but I think it will take me years and even when I’ll find a guy who really loves me, I’ll will be heavily influenced by the nightmare I experienced that made feel worse than a worm, and has deeply humiliated me, also because I’m a fool, it’s true, but everybody left me completely alone. That’s all.

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-gay-sex-and-violence

GAY COUPLES BETWEEN ILLUSIONS AND DISAPPOINTMENTS

Hello Project, I would like to ask you something. But why has the section dedicated to the elderly of your forum remained empty? I follow you from the days of the first forum and then someone of my age was there, rare but there were, but now nobody at all. So if you want to put this e-mail you can open a new section dedicated to elderly. I am a 61-year-old man (I wanted to write an old man).

Project, you know very well what it meant to be gay when we were young, it was a bit like living in the catacombs, but even then and with all the complications that were there, I did my life. I started late, practically at the age of 40, before that age I had never had the courage to approach a guy but from the age of 40 up to the age of 55 I did my experiences. Let’s say, Project, that perhaps all the spirituality and all the things that you see I could not see them, I was much less refined in certain things, I don’t even know if I ever loved a guy in the sense that you say.

My the first guy, when I was aged 40, or was about to turn 40, he was just 30, I felt I had finally reached the world of dreams. I had been with him for 5 years, he had always said that he was straight, we talked a lot but he was sexually completely blocked. I was insisting because I wanted to make him relax and also because he was a damn sexy guy. In the end I became more audacious and he gave in, said that with me it was just sex and that he didn’t love me, he always repeated it, but when I put him in a position from which he could not escape, he left the girl to stay with me. Sexual happiness with him lasted yes and no for a month and maybe it would have gone on, our problem was not that, but the fact that he kept repeating to me obsessively that he was straight and that he didn’t love me but with me he only had sex.

At the beginning I thought things would change because I saw him sexually involved, but then the misunderstandings started for very stupid reasons and when we met, instead of having sex, there were endless discussions about the fact that I didn’t understand him and that I expected from him an involvement that there would never be.

At one point he told me he wanted to try with a girl, I don’t know if he did, but from what I knew he went to put himself in the worst gay environments. When I saw him he only repeated that it was all my fault. I had loved him but he never wanted to understand it and I think he left because I was too old for him.

Then I had two stories with men more or less my age but they lasted very little. The first was afraid of everything and in terms of sex I didn’t like it. The second would not have been bad from that point of view but I say “it would not have been” only in the abstract because physically I didn’t like him, it was I whom he liked.

It’s been a few years now that I’m alone and I don’t mind at all. The experiences I have done have served me only to understand that when they finished I didn’t lose anything. I have had infatuations, but never falling in love according to your style, I never had the idea of living for a guy. Can you tell me that I used them, this is perhaps true, but that’s what everyone does, because those who say the opposite also do so. And then where is the concept of a couple? These guys, they were men made, they were not boys, yet they dumped on me on a lot of complexes that you can’t even imagine, they as felt pathological cases, a little they denied all that they were and a little behaved in a childish way, men of more than 40 years who thought they had 20 and were at the center of the world, men who hadn’t grown up.

There can be also others, it’s possible, but where? The three that I knew were the best I found, you can imagine the rest. Maybe living in a state of continuous repression complicates life to such an extent that you end up like that, but surely you finally ask yourself if it’s worth it, I don’t say to try to live in a couple but just to have a serious story, maybe short . The comrades I had were good people, but after many years I feel very happy that those relationships are over and not because I had to replace them with who knows what but because in the long run those relationship didn’t make sense anymore. I also put myself among the pathological cases in several ways. Well, if you put two pathological cases together, they don’t become normal people just because they’re together.

Project, one thing I must tell you. Reading the forum and the other sites, I have the impression that you paint the gay world with colors a bit false, I mean too positive, the values there will be well but frankly there are so many complexes and so much stupidity that one ask himself how can one think of a couple life. Now with these things I have closed, but if I was 40 years younger with the experience I have today, in life I would think of doing something else and not of looking for a partner. Now I’m alone but honestly I think if I had a partner it would be worse.

I would like to tell the guys that the first thing is to learn how to feel good on your own and not to depend on anyone. Don’t dream of finding the guy who lives for you, who makes your life easy and happy, these things don’t exist, a gay guy who stays alone lives much better than one who lives in couple and who must also take care of solving problems of the other, to listen to his complaints, to accept his complexes. You don’t have to believe that life as a couple is a paradise, because it is not at all.

Now gays want marriage, when they will have obtained it, they will want a divorce because it is a couple’s life that doesn’t make sense in itself. Hetero people have children. Without children, heterosexual couples would not resist much. Gays have no children and for them the concept of a couple is just a more or less absurd attempt to resist their depressions and their individual incapacities. Think about it before you dream of things that are too sublime. Keeping your feet well on the ground prevents ruinous falls. Project, I realize that perhaps it would be better to put this email in the part relating to couples, in fact it is the right place, but it’s your choice.

Henry48

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-gay-couples-between-illusions-and-disappointments

MODELS OF GAY AFFECTIVITY AND GAY SEXUALITY

Models of affectivity and sexuality

It often happens that people totally alien to gay reality talk about gay marriage or gay couples, simply extrapolating to the gay field models of affection and sexuality typical of the hetero world. It also happens that even gays themselves are often led to more or less consciously conform their behavior to heterosexual behaviors in situations more or less similar. In reality the models of hetero-affectivity and hetero-sexuality are not easily exportable to the gay world because while in the hetero reality dominate categories such as sexual complementarity, procreative purpose of sexuality in itself, and social dimension of the couple relationship, in the gay reality dominate categories such as sexual equality, non-procreative orientation of sexuality and in most cases privacy.

This chapter aims to point out the originality of models of gay affection and gay sexuality compared to hetero models.

Sexcentric models and models with widespread sexuality

The different conceptions of the emotional life can be classified according to the role that sexuality assumes in them. There are models in which reproductive sexuality dominates to such a point that the choice of the partner becomes secondary, in other cases sexuality, considered fundamental, even beyond the reproductive purpose, remains at the center of affective life, which means that an interpersonal relationship acquires an important meaning only when it results in sexual intercourse, that fidelity is identified exclusively with sexual fidelity and that the relationship goes into crisis when sexual intercourse is no longer gratifying.

Some statements typical of certain models of hetero sexuality such as: “the essential purpose of sexuality is the birth of children”, “masturbation is inadmissible because it means wasting the semen”, “the relationship between two people of the same sex cannot be a true relationship of love because it cannot transmit life”, “virginity is a very important virtue” and similar, are indices of sexcentric models.

Similarly, a sexcentric view of affectivity leads to believe that a heterosexual sexual contact cannot be truly gratifying when penetration is lacking, and also to consider all that precedes penetration, and more generally any other sexual practice, only as a preliminary.

The underlining of masculinity and femininity as well-defined roles at a social level springs also from a sexcentric dimension. The sexcentric dimension of affective life can lead to use a particular emphasis about sexual intercourse and, precisely for this reason, it can induce performance anxiety.

In spreading sexcentric models, a particular role is played by pornography that identifies sexuality with sexual intercourse and spreads, by imitation, non-spontaneous behavior patterns that can be profoundly conditioning. I often talk with guys, who are no longer very young, grown up with an sexual education or better with a sexual miseducation entrusted exclusively to pornography, the real damage caused to these guys by pornography is to prevent or delay the development of true affective sexuality. Many characteristics of hetero sexcentric models are uncritically assimilated even by gays who only transcribe those models in a gay key.

A powerful antidote against the damage of pornography is represented by “non-sexcentric” affective models derived from examples of family life. Gay guys who grew up in families where models of widespread sexuality are dominant between their parents (pampering, affectionate cuddling and so on) are, in a sense, vaccinated against the sexcentric visions of pornography.

The mechanical transcription in a gay key of hetero sexcentric models induces gay guys not to pay too much attention to their feelings but to consider only strictly sexual reactions as fundamental. I often talk with young people who attribute fundamental importance to technical sexuality as a center of affective life, typical in this sense are the situations of guys who focus totally on their sexual response, in these cases the hyper-valuation of technical sexuality leads sometimes to neurotic reactions such as sexual testing (sexual experiments), which can also occur in a repetitive and disturbing manner at the limit of the obsessive content.

In these situations it would be necessary a real emotional re-education or better a re-education to affective sexuality, which anyway is only possible with a partner who doesn’t have a sexcentric view of affectivity. However, affectivity can also be widespread, with characteristics that are not sexcentric at all. This doesn’t mean that in this case there is no sexuality in the strict sense of the term but only that this sexuality is a component of the emotional relationship but it is not its essence.

The substantial difference between sexcentric affectivity and widespread sexuality consists in the fact that a widespread sexuality permeates all the emotional behavior of a person and is not limited to technically sexual moments.

Obviously the widespread sexuality is not, in itself, neither heterosexual nor gay but it is a way of conceiving sexuality. It remains anyway that, from what I see, for a gay couple made up of guys who have lived a peaceful adolescence in a family climate authentically affective, widespread sexuality, in the absence of the conditionings of pornography, is a spontaneous dimension, not induced from the outside by imitation of pornography, but learned within the family, from real life.

The deeply affective and fulfilling meaning that a hug can have for a gay guy is not linked to the fact that the hug can be a prelude to a sexual intercourse but derives from the dimension of warmth and intimacy that the hug assumes in a dimension of widespread sexuality .

A significant consequence of widespread gay sexuality is found in a more labile border between friendship and love. This is a very important fact both because it stabilizes the gay couple when the mutual sexual interest tends to fade, and because it leads to a vision of betrayal that is much more elastic than the typically rigid vision of sexcentric conceptions.

For a gay, thinking of a possible sexualized dimension of friendship, outside the couple, is not necessarily equivalent to putting the couple relationship in crisis, precisely because sexuality is often not seen as the essence of the couple relationship, in this sense episodic infidelity becomes tolerable because it is understood as a sexualized way of showing one’s affection to a friend rather than as an attempt to build an alternative couple.

The possible gay couple

I would like to stop now on the concept of possible gay couple. Using this expression I mean to point out that for a gay the possibility of achieving 100% of his desires in terms of married life represents an event that is anything but common. A hetero has much more choice and a lot more freedom of action, for a gay the realization of a couple’s life is linked to the a priori unlikely eventuality that the guy he falls in love with is gay.

When a gay guy falls in love with a straight guy, that is he is strongly attracted to him at a global level, both emotional and sexual, sooner or later he must acknowledge that his wishes will not come true, the same gay guy can then find also concrete opportunities to get to know other gay guys and to be able to create a really possible couple relationship with them, this dimension of couple is often apparently weakened by the fact that there are other guys, also hetero, and, I would say, often hetero, towards whom the gay guy is decidedly more sexually attracted than he is towards his possible gay partner. On this basis one could automatically think of a fragility of relationship. In reality it is not so, if the possible couple doesn’t fully satisfy one of the two partners in terms of sexual desire, which can remain concentrated also on other guys (desired but impossible partners), it remains however that it is a “possible relationship”, in front of desires that are unattainable. The couple relationship in these terms cannot be sexcentric and changes, while maintaining a sexual dimension, placing at the center a diffused affectivity-sexuality.

It is the classic case of loving one’s own boyfriend in a profound way, considering him as a life partner in the most serious sense of the word, even without experiencing a strong sexual attraction towards him. In these situations sexuality is lived as a completion of the emotional relationship and not as a value in itself decisive, one lives an “affective” couple sexuality and at the same time a masturbation not dedicated to the partner but to an impossible guy towards whom one feels sexually attracted in a strong way. The mechanism that I have described is much more common than is believed and has an enormous value in the process of growth of the person because it takes guys away from very schematic vistas of the sexuality.

I must underline that these couple relationships are not of lesser value with respect to relationships in which sexual desire and affection are perfectly in agreement, but are with those in the same relation in which possible reality is with theoretical hypotheses.

The biggest fear for a gay guy is certainly not lacking of a partner with whom to have sex but not to be loved and the “possible couple” responds to this emotional need in a serious way and that is precisely why guys who live a relationship of “possible couple” are usually not frustrated, as one might think from the outside. It is evident that the sexcentric view of affectivity is incompatible with these situations.

Let us stop now to examine the role that sexuality plays in conditioning the relationships between gay guys in two different situations:

1) An attempt to put into practice an abstract model of a gay couple

2) A search for a balance without assuming prejudicially couple models of any kind

An attempt to put in practice an abstract model of a gay couple

According to the common way of seeing, a gay guy can best realize his sexuality in a couple relationship when that relationship starts from a mutual and strong sexual attraction. On this basis it is assumed that it is easier to build even a stable emotional relationship, in a sense the emotional needs appear here subordinated to sexual needs. To enter the specific through more immediate speeches, here is a passage from a mail of a 26 year old guy, that I will call Andew.

“I think that if one becomes conditioned in life, in the end it does not accomplish anything and that never deciding is worse than decide wrong things and I, on the other hand, didn’t want to watch the passing train. Project, if one doesn’t endeavor and doesn’t commit himself, afterwards can’t complain. I was tired of the half things that were mired in a go and come without end, If you want to stay with me ok, otherwise each one must go on along his own way.

So I see him the first time, I’m almost stunned, so sexy that I had never seen one like that. Guys, I’m really dazed. We met absolutely by chance, I had attended chats and even clubs, but I met him by chance at a business dinner of the company where I work. He was with a girl but he wasn’t absolutely interested in her, so I decided to play my cards and told him: “You’re beautiful!” He smiled at me and said: “You too!” Oh, I’m not ugly, before I had always around a lot of girls interested in me, but I wasn’t absolutely interested in them (I always kept them at a distance!), but now that someone knows about me I also find some guys who are interested in me, but some, poor guys, not to brag, but I would never fall in love with them.

In short, he smiles at me. We part from people a bit, you know how these things go, you see that he is there and you feel encouraged, we touched a bit (in the intimate sense) and he agreed. I really exploded. I was single and I had never been with a guy, he had made his experiences, but in the end I didn’t care. In short, the fact is that I went to him the same evening and everything happened that could happen, I was so much upset so that I had not even thought about condoms but he had them. It made me think that he was not one who puts himself at risk easily. In short, after 15 days I went to live at his house. In practice it was a dream, a guy, “that guy” all for me. I had a terrible fear that he could betray me, that he could get tired of me but it did not seem so.

He was a little older than me (31) and already had an enviable position in the company, he could have everything he wanted but he wanted to stay with me. In short, everything is fine for a couple of months, then I begin to understand that something is wrong. He doesn’t want to have sex with me anymore. I feel desperate, I beg him but he doesn’t want to hear me, he tells me he has met a girl but he doesn’t want to talk about her. He with a girl? It seems to me absurd. One afternoon he tells me that he has to go to the company and he goes out but he doesn’t go to the company. Where he went I didn’t know and I don’t even know it now but he started telling me lies and keeping me out of his life.

We had sex every night, at least at the beginning, because I didn’t know anything at first, then I asked him how things were and he got very angry, he told me that it was not anyone’s servant, and that if I was tired of him, I had to go. I didn’t want to leave, it seemed to me that my dream had fallen apart and I didn’t even understand why. I stayed at his house almost as a challenge. He did not get the courage to let me out but he started behaving just like I was not there.

He started to came home with his friends who stayed until late at night and such things were unbearable for me then I reached the point of no return and solemnly sent him to hell and left his home. After three weeks I ended up in hospital for a bad accident and he didn’t even bother to visit me. Anything! And he was very well aware that I was at the hospital. Here this is a sort of summary of the story. It is definitely better to be alone than with one like that! But I only understood it at the end.”

A search for a balance without models of couple life

Too often as a model of a relationship between gay guys is adopted a model in which sexuality represents the maximum, as well as the remote cause of the relationship on both sides, i.e. it is assumed that two gay guys are brought together to satisfy a primary emotional-sexual need, and that once the affective conditions that guarantee the seriousness are realized, couple’s desire of the guys is perfectly fulfilled.

This model, even if attractive, in many cases is not really applicable because the motivations that push two guys to be together can also be significantly different from a mutual sexual interest, that is, they can appear under the appearance of a sexual drive and be in substance general affective needs.

The affective-sexual education of gay guys pushes them to emphasize the strictly sexual dimension as a fundamental if not exclusive cause of their relationship, in other words, the emphasis is essentially on the sexual dimension and not on the emotional one. The consequence of all this is a progressive sexualization of affectivity. Below is a passage from a mail of a 23-year-old guy (I’ll later call him Laurence) that clarifies the concept:

“I loved him, that is, I was fine with him, I was happy when he was there, when he was not there I felt strongly his absence, I waited for his cell phone calls or msn, I liked him so much when he came to me and we talked a lot, and he took off her shoes and stretched out on my bed, he felt free and I with him, I know that if I needed him he would do anything for me, he’s a nice guy but he’s not my type, some sexual thoughts about him I did too, after all why not, but not only he has never been a fixation for me but let’s say that on him I had few fantasies of that kind while It happened more on some other guys, perhaps those impossible that I could never have, but intrigued me more. I loved him but I didn’t really feel sexually attracted to him.”

The situation described here (the relationship between the two guys), from the point of view of the author of the email, has a primary matrix of affective and not typically sexual character. it is, in other words, the typical situation that predisposes to a strong gay friendship. The point of view of the other guy is so summarized by the author of the mail:

“For him it is different, it has always been different from the beginning, he has had just the typical way of doing the sweetheart, for me he has so many attentions, he respects me a lot, is attentive to my mood, he cuddles me a lot, hugs me, kisses me, is in physical contact with me, but I see that he brakes, I understand it, he brakes because even if he would keep going beyond, he does it only when he thinks it’s me to want it (maybe it’s not like that), for the rest he doesn’t even try, he tells me he dreams me, that I’m his guy, that when we cannot see each other he masturbates thinking of me, that he bring my photo always with him, I feel that he is in love.

With him I’m also good to have sex but it’s a different thing, I feel good as for a form of tenderness, he brakes and I instead let him decide and I try to follow him as I can, as it’s possible for me, but I feel the dissymmetry and I’m sorry because maybe he could deserve someone better than me.

We have been together for more than two years now but we cannot live together, I don’t even know if it would be better. I love him, I would never betray him, I would feel bad, I did all the controls for the hiv and it’s all right but it’s not just that why I would not betray him, but it’s that a guy like him doesn’t really deserves it. In recent months I have seen many guys who physically like me more than him but I think that with them it would not be better than with him, that in the end they attract me from the sexual point of view and that’s all, while with him it’s different. Of course, I don’t’ feel at all an overwhelming love, it’s another thing, an important thing, very important for me, but it’s another thing.”

The function of sexuality in these relationships is a guarantee function, in the sense that guarantees the exclusivity of the emotional relationship precisely because it is connected to a relationship also sexual. On this exclusivity are grafted on one side the expectations of an almost matrimonial relationship and on the other some attempts, anyway not too much strong, to safeguard one’s own autonomy.

“Then there is a further problem, he works and I don’t, I think he is starting to make plans on buying a small apartment. He didn’t tell me it explicitly, but from a few little particulars I understood that he was looking for deals in the magazines of real estate agencies. When we pass near a real estate agency he stops to take a look and before he didn’t. I think he doesn’t talk about it because he’s afraid I may consider it as a trap and it’s a bit like that, but not because I don’t want to be with him but because I’d like to be on equal footing, I’d also like an apartment in rent paid at 50%, but living in a house, with the expenses paid only by him, would make me uncomfortable. I must be free to leave if by chance I’m not well with him otherwise I would feel forced, not to say that I could never tell my parents that I’m going to live with him.

Honestly, I think that it could also work just because a cohabitation is not made of sex but also and especially of many other things, I wouldn’t give up easily, as I didn’t give up in these two years and maybe I could go on for so many years, we should stay together because we are really well, and now I’m fine with him, and certainly not because I don’t have a place where I can live.”

In these situations, sexuality ends up slowly acquiring a recessive dimension, the need for not turning it into a routine pushes to thin out opportunities and transforms sexual drive into a form of mutual sexual tenderness that can be more easily shared. These relationships have an apparent fragility but tend to consolidate over time and become substantially resistant, even in front of situations that at first might have put them in crisis.

“About three months ago I met, through my ex, a guy who is very nice and I really like him, let’s call him Paul. I don’t deny that he put me in crisis and not a little.

I think Paul fell in love with me even though I didn’t show him any enthusiasm. The first few times I didn’t talk about it to my boyfriend, I was very ashamed, then I told him everything and there I understood the value of my boyfriend, we talked a lot and in a serious way, even if it was obvious that he felt bad he didn’t in the least let his presence became heavy for me and almost tried to put me at ease telling me that I had to feel free because he will love me anyway.

Frankly I understood very well that he wasn’t at ease and that for him to stay away from me would have been a very heavy sacrifice and there I understood to what extent he loves me. In the meantime Paul has really tried everything to have me, I had the temptation but it would have been just like giving a stab to my boyfriend and so I put aside Paul’s speeches. Frankly I had no regrets even at the time, then I came back to my boyfriend and I told him I loved him. We made love and it was a very nice thing. Making love with a guy who really loves you is an indescribable thing, it’s not even a matter of sex, you think mostly of him, you make him understand that you love him, you make him understand through sex that you love him and you feel that he is happy and exactly for this you feel happy too.”

A relationship like the one described in the email mentioned above doesn’t start from an eminently sexual thrust but gradually comes to the conquest of a different affective sexuality, which has the appearance of uncertainty and the solidity of things of which the real extent is understood by direct experience. In essence, it is a matter of slowly constructing the sense of a relationship.

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-models-of-gay-affectivity-and-gay-sexuality

A GAY IN THE GYM

[Interview with a 24-year-old boy, registered on 4/16/2003]

Do you want to know what I go there to do? . . . Yes, yes . . . but have I to explain it to you? With this fucking microphone … I feel embarrassed, you’re there to record but it’s me the one who has to do the speech, come on, let’s go further. . . I’m ashamed . . . No, wait . . . ok ok . . . now I try. . . I go there for several reasons, the usual ones, health, sports, all these reasons. . . and come on! . . . don’t make all those grimaces! . . . good! . . . I come to the point! ok ok . . . but in fact I go there to see the naked guys. . . it’s like that, there’s nothing to do, it’s like that, because today you can find everywhere a lot of stuff not only of naked but also of porn at all levels but that is not sex, are only movies, in short are false things, apart from that there is all a false mental attitude, however, those who do those things just are actors, in those things there is very little of natural.

I have seen a lot of films of a certain kind but these things have nothing to do with being in front of real naked guys. Anyway, guys unlike the actors, don’t act, are really happy to stay with other real guys who are not actors, they are there with the utmost naturalness, they joke a little, they play, that is, they are what they really are, it’s just a wonderful climate, for them that is not a sexual climate, it’s normal, this is what strikes me the most: the absolute naturalness of these guys’ behaviors, the affectionate, casual climate despite the nudity. I, in general, when I go to the locker room, stay there a lot of time, but not just to look around, even to wait for them all to go away in order to finally get dressed, because when I’m in there I’m in erection all the time, but if I’m almost fully clothed, no one notices it.

Once, two or three weeks ago, I went there on Monday, when there are very few people, and I found a guy I met a couple of months ago, a straight guy eh. . . so certain ideas, that I have, must pass from my head. He’s called George, a guy 22 years old, but just a nice guy, but so straight that you cannot be more straight. . . that only talks to you about his girlfriend, in short you have understood the type. . . and you should hear the voice. . . a very sexy thing.

I was sitting on the bench pretending to put things right in the bag, he was coming out of the shower, practically we were just us. He puts himself in front of me, as his mother did him, and begins a conversation based entirely on girls. The show was unique, it was just beautiful. That is, now, it is obvious, for a gay guy to see a naked guy is also a sexual attraction, however, apart from this, a beautiful naked guy is just beautiful, that is a work of art. But he Has been there chatting without dressing for at least twenty minutes, I think he also had the pleasure of being seen. . . because if you’re ugly you do well if you cover yourself, but if you’re a nice guy you have nothing to cover. I was always shocked by the immediacy and the absence of inhibitions of the guys like George, for them it is obvious, for me it is absolutely unthinkable. Then he greeted me and left. . . as if nothing had happened, I had to recover from the emotion, because in the state in which I was not I was not able to go out, after a few minutes I went out, I found him at the bar and he offered me a tonic water, then he left but before leaving me we shook hands very cordially, he with his beautiful smile and a beautiful warm, strong hand. . .

Something like this is not very common, you can usually see many naked guys, all together, but the scene doesn’t imprint on your brain, while with George, a very different situation had been created. It is clear that it happens once in a while, sometimes such a thing doesn’t happen for several weeks, but when it happens, even just once, you don’t forget it anymore and, there is no need to say It, when you come home you have an erection just thinking about it, with everything that is coming after. In a way I know George intimately, even if these are frustrating things, anyway. . . a few days later I see George, he greets me, asks me if I remember him. . . damn if I remember! I remember every little detail of him, well, you understood. He smiles at me. . . if he knew that I not only remember him but that I think about him very, very intensely, every night. . . Well, I don’t know what he would do. . . I think he would choose another gym. . . or not? . . . Boh!

The story of George has been a bit exceptional, in general it is a far more trivial thing. . . but for a gay guy of my age it’s anyway a great temptation. Then there is a fact, I never go to the gym with friends, I always go there alone. I don’t know If there are any other gay guys, I’ve never notices anything that concretely credited this hypothesis. In there, it seems that I’m the only one inhibited, or other gays are perfectly integrated, I don’t know, but the feeling is as if there are no inhibited guys. That they are all true hetero it would seem strange to me, but, at least at eye and cross, it’s what seems most likely.

Ah. . . one thing, and it’s something that I’ve always noticed and has always struck me, the guys who go to the gym tend to make friends and it works well, while I feel out of the group, I feel somehow not to be part of the group and sometimes it also comes into my mind that becoming a voyeur, because I actually it’s what I’m, it is also not very respectful to these guys, I feel a bit like a thief, I would very much not steal these moments of intimacy, but you can get these thing only this way . . . and then I don’t see a real reason to be ashamed for . . . I feel like a thief, it’s true, but basically I do not steal anything from these guys, they are completely unaware, it’s true. . . but they don’t remain traumatized and then everything is so natural.

In the gym I’ve never seen bad jokes, that is sexual ones, I’ve heard of them, but I’ve never seen these things. When there is someone new, it is usually presented to the other guys by a friend who already attends the gym and I never saw situations of embarrassment. Ah, another thing, many, who don’t feel any embarrassment in being naked, are anyway not naked all the time but put a towel on their hips, but not to hide something, because then they take it off without any embarrassment. It’s all a ritual, it’s all coded, they all behave more or less the same way, it’s just a sort of masculine collective ritual.

At the my gym showers are closed by plastic blinds and there is a little privacy, in fact I almost never go there. When guys come out, they usually come out with a towel around their hips. . . but then they remove it to dry well. That of the locker room is really a special environment, there is a climate of total freedom that there is never in any other situation. When there is a new guy I’ve never seen before I try to fix things so that I enter the locker room just when he too is there, I study very well all the strategy that has to look totally random, but not only, first of all I greet him, I go by him when he does the weights or when he is at the machines, I explain how the machines work, that is, I try to create a minimum of relationship but then the brain goes always there.

I mean that I have not really known a guy until I have seen him naked, that is, I have to get there, I have to know how he’s done, it’s very important. When it happens I have a complete picture that guy, it’s not a stupid thing, it’s just like that. . . and when it happens like with George that a familiarity is formed such that the guy stops talking to you when he comes out of the shower without dressing . . . well, what can I say to you, it seems to me that a very special intimacy has been created. But now it’s enough, don’t make me talk too much, I can’t go into details. . . but if a climate like that created with George was created with a gay guy, it would be the best. . .

I know very well that a similar climate with a gay guy would never exist. . . but I understand them those who fall in love with heterosexuals, because I think of George a thousand times a day. I saw his schedules and I set mine just as his, perhaps something interesting could come out! A scene like that of three weeks ago could be repeated, but till now it didn’t happen. When he arrives he greets me and smiles as well, I always try to catch him in the locker room both before and after the shower, but I cannot insist too much. I have a dream, I would like him one day would really stop to talk with me, but not naked as it happened three weeks ago, I would like him to ask me a ride at the exit, I would accompany him home and I would like him to look into my eyes and say: “I don’t have the courage to tell you. . . but I’m gay and I’m in love with you!” . . But no! He’s just a beautiful hetero! . . . but does it seem right to you?

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-a-gay-in-the-gym

LOVE STORIES OF A GAY EIGHTEEN YEAR OLD

First of all, thanks for last night’s chat. You will understand that at 18, for one who has always tried not to see, finding the courage to write you was very difficult, but I’m glad I did. I expected a standard answer, let’s say a schematic thing, and I was struck by the kind of response, very direct. When I asked you to chat, I didn’t know what you would answer, but a minute later we were on Skype. Maybe the fears of a boy like me will make you smile, but I cannot talk to anyone seriously and for me to be able to talk about certain things means to understand that I must not be afraid. 
 
I have always lacked a family from my childhood, I had a family but only in name, my father thinks only of his things and my mother cares about me and my sister just like a duty always puffing and making us notice (especially at me) that for her we are only a ball and chain. My mother is convinced that she is an excellent mother and that she has sacrificed herself for us from morning to night and in a sense it is true, but she is not a mother, she is a super-nanny.
 
My father, when I try to tell him two words, makes me point out that he has no time, that he has other things to do and that what I wanted to tell him can be said later, he always postpones  my sister’s things and mine, because he has to think about work , always and only about work.
 
How can I tell my parents that I’m gay? I think that, very simply, they wouldn’t believe it, they are young, my father is 44 and mother 42, but they are straight and for them the world ends there. When there is a program on television that also speaks about gays, they don’t make homophobic comments, none of this, simply they change the channel, without even noticing, as if they had ended up by mistake on a channel that talks about how the cucumbers are cultivated in Arizona.
 
Besides, I would not bear at all the idea of being sent by a psychologist, and what for? I don’t have problems with my being gay, I feel great. One of my schoolmates is a gay, publicly declared, I don’t like him at all, he is a very good guy, but I really don’t like him physically, he is not effeminate at all but he isn’t certainly the guy of my dreams My classmates are not homophobic, my gay friend is not teased or bullied, the others simply consider him a bit like a Martian.
 
One day a friend of mine was talking to this gay guy and said to him: “I have nothing against gays, but I never understood how you, who are basically a boy like us, can do without girls and how can you run after guys “. This is the attitude that I see around me. I know that there is much worse, but even this feeling like a Martian is not at all pleasant. You can well understand that coming out at school and being treated like my gay friend doesn’t attract me at all.
 
As for love stories, my fantasies are enough for me. Two years ago I fell in love with a boy 18 years old, who was very handsome and fascinated me a lot because he was very calm, never aggressive and even though I was younger than him, the times that we talked, he took me as a guy his age. Then he graduated and left and I didn’t see him anymore, he was also a straight guy, I didn’t have the slightest doubt about that.
 
There is a guy in my class who likes me, that is, compared to the handsome boy of two years ago …  no! There’s no possible  comparison, but among others he is the one  I more look at, but then, when I speak with him, all my fantasies vanish, he is very full of himself, he tells me all the things he will do at university and later, but he seems to me a bit like an inflated balloon. Can you see him as a scientist, one who lacks satisfactory qualifications in mathematics? I don’t believe him will become a scientist! So, let’s say that as far as love stories I’m at zero.
 
There is a guy I like a lot in every sense but he is not in my class and I can exchange with him just a few words when there is the assembly, but I really like him a lot. He’s tall, thin, smiling, blond, with light eyes, just like the guys I like and then he’s smart, when he intervenes he amazes me for what he says, and he’s one who talks little, he also has a very sexy voice and beautiful hands. On this guy I tried to gather information, first of all to know if he has a girlfriend and doesn’t have one! Then to understand how he thinks about gays and I once heard one of his speeches in the assembly when he was talking about this and I noticed that he had a very particular way of expressing himself.
 
I’ll give you an example. Another guy, to say that gays mustn’t be marginalized, said that they should not be marginalized because “those are like us!” And therefore practically said to be a straight guy who accepts gays, while the guy that I like never did a distinction between “us” and “they”, he never said things that implied that he was straight, and this switched on a light bulb in my brain. . . he doesn’t have a girlfriend, talking about gays he doesn’t distinguish between us and them . . . well, objectively they are not very strong arguments but it is clear that the speech needs to be deepened and that it makes sense to try to understand something more.
 
I don’t think this guy has ever noticed me because I speak little, I don’t intervene in the assembly and I’m afraid to say nonsense, so I don’t show myself too much, however, with this guy  some things have happened that I liked a lot. During the assembly many guys were in the yard to smoke and we were there too, even if we don’t smoke, then the others came back to the assembly, I stayed out, I expected him to enter and instead he stayed out talking with me sitting on the steps, it seemed to me like a dream. I don’t want to overestimate the fact but he stayed there for me. We did not know what to say, neither he nor I, it was a moment of sweet embarrassment, but it ended immediately because a teacher passed and made us come back to the assembly.
 
Then there was another episode, there was a conference about the nuclear physics in the afternoon and there were very few people, there were no one of his classmates and he sat next to me in an almost empty room, I felt his warmth.
 
When it was over he offered me a coffee at the coffee machine and asked me what I had understood about everything they had said, and I told him that I was just thinking about something else and he replied: “Me too. . . ” and he gave a beautiful smile, I asked him about what had he thinking and he replied: “I think you know, but let’s change the subject, ok?” It was a very intense moment but then we talked about other things.
 
Is it possible that he too is interested in me? You don’t have an idea of how such a thing would make me happy. I don’t even care if he’s gay (of course it would be ideal!). It would be enough for me to have him only as a friend. Here he’s my dream of love: a handsome guy, intelligent and in love with me! Maybe it’s too much to ask, but I will not give him up because there’s something on its side too. Now I leave you and wish you a good week. 
Thanks for everything.
Mathew
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THE CRY OF PAIN OF A YOUNG GAY

Hello boys … Since I joined the forum I attended it very little, although I stay most nights chatting. Often I just talk in chat and I feel a bit better, because here I met really fantastic people who can accept me despite my quirks (which go well beyond my homosexuality, as those who know me a little know very well). However, tonight letting off steam in the chat didn’t produce any effect because I felt bad as I haven’t felt for a long time.

Tonight the ghosts of the past have come back as violent as a hurricane, ready to drag me away another time … I don’t know if I have already spoken about it on the forum before (in the chat definitely yes), however I live in a mountain village, not far from the city (which anyway is a town of only 60 thousand inhabitants … can one call it city? …) but my village is not well connected to the territory given the reduced number of bus rides and so often it is difficult for me, being a minor, to go to the city. This causes me a very strong feeling of unease.

Here everybody knows everything about everyone … I hate being here, I feel completely out of place, I feel like those caged canaries that would fly and cannot escape. I also feel as a silent tiger, which roars but no one hears the roar. I cry my suffering but it is not understood. I compare to too many things that I’m not, actually … Here, as already mentioned, the Law of Jante, that collection of sociological maxims according to which those who are different from the community are excluded and ridiculed, is widely spread ad dominant.

I’ve never been part of my country, nor even of the neighboring city. I’ve always been a case apart, lost in the Franco-German novels and in Japanese comics, while listening to English and Icelandic music. Jante’s Law is also applied within the homosexual community. Given that there are very few gays here … that is, there are very few gay people, and the mentality is so closed that many don’t even accept themselves as gays. therefore …

I don’t exaggerate if I say that in my area don’t exist more than 20 gays, and in any case I’m the only one in my village. About those 20 in any case now has been made a malevolent word of mouth, I don’t know how or why but everyone knows me but I don’t know them, they know absurd things about me – sometimes true, sometimes not, I wonder how, from what, from whom they came to know such things.

I cannot live here anymore … relationships with the gay community don’t exist at all because of the negative reputation that someone has created about me (such things really happen only in “terronia” [= “land of terroni”. The Italians of the south use to call with contempt those of the north with the nickname “polentoni”, that is, eaters of polenta, those of the north use similarly call those of the south “terroni” i.e. workers of the land, peasants.] … this regardless of sexual orientation, if you are a little bit different you are anyway excluded and considered crazy), as for the relationships with heterosexuals … with the guys I cannot tie,

I’m afraid of being judged, ah no ops… they judge me because I’m not visibly like them … not that I’m very effeminated but I certainly don’t have the interests: pussy, motors and football the straight guys talk about here. I point out, I don’t have this opinion of all straight guys. Outside of my area, when I was lucky enough to live in France, but also in the north of Italy, I saw heterosexual guys very open (I point out it because I don’t want to look like heterophobe). Regarding the straight girls, eh, it’s a minimum positive point. With them I can tie, as long as they are not bitches or little geese [stupid persons] … as a result, I only have a close female friend (which everyone calls alternately “Satan” or “Zoccola” [bitch] and this clearly demonstrate how the south of Italy is open …) and three other female friends with whom I’m not as close but I feel at ease and I love them. Then I have a lesbian friend, but lately I attend her less. In short, all women.

I don’t even know what I’m writing and why I’m writing. Maybe to make sure that one day I’ll remember these things. I had started with the intention of describing in detail the word-of-mouth aggression perpetrated against me, but I realize only now that I cannot do it, for the simple fact that I don’t have the faintest idea about. And I have to say that I have been already the victim of another word of mouth, when in eighth grade someone called almost all the parents of my classmates to tell them that I was gay. I would like to know who did so just to say “I’m sorry for how much you are a piece of shit …”

So, I’m angry with everyone tonight. I’m angry with Calabria that doesn’t offer me opportunities, with the Calabrians who have a very narrow mind, with my mother who instead of helping me pushes deeper the knife into the wound with the acid jokes, stressing the fact that I don’t know how to defend myself, but above all I’m angry with myself because I’m not able to send everything and everyone to hell and move on by myself. I’m proud of myself only because in all this I have never seriously thought about suicide, because I firmly believe that there is a better life outside of this hell. But I see this situation depressing, to put it mildly … not committing suicide here is a demonstration that I give myself every day that elsewhere I could really be worth something …

Here people don’t have a minimum respect, I have been called “bog”, “crazy”, “Satanist”, “poof” and many other cute nicknames since I was THREE years old, they already hated me in kindergarten. Do I have a face of cocks? Maybe, but is it my fault? With people who don’t stop at the first impression I can bind so much to give them my soul … but often it seems that people next to me don’t realize it, they think I’m crazy and then I behave accordingly :/ What to say? How to conclude? I don’t know. I’m disheartened. I’m depressed. I say lies every 3×2 [usually], just because I say lies I delude myself to get away from this unsatisfactory reality. I’ve been doing it since I was 9 years old.

Sometimes I’m terrified that even if I’m going to attend university elsewhere, everything will be equally disgusting, that the world is really disgusting like Calabria (although I have tangible evidences that it is not). But my father with his fucking motto “the whole world is village” would make me want to swallow 50 pills of Valium and finish the games forever … I don’t do it because I want and I can resist … because I know I’m worth something … but believe me sometimes, for a few nanoseconds, suicide seems to me the only way out. I resist. I keep fighting and resisting. But for how long? How much do I still have to suffer before finding happiness? Does happiness exist for me?

What then my happiness is? … A goodnight text message would be enough for me or something like “my love … for me you are all” from a boy and this post would never have been written. I would need a “I would like you next to me now” if not a guy waiting for me in the room nearby ready to … kiss me, hug me, tell me that no matter how I suffered and I will suffer but he will always be there for me. Because this is my greatest cause of suffering: the fear of never finding a boyfriend. I don’t have particular passions, yes I like French, Icelandic, history and psychology. But I would never be able to make my work a reason for living, I’m rather “two hearts and a hut”, so far I’ve only had almost exclusively online relationships (live, I’ve only have had stupid, without feeling and also few relationships) yet in those online relationships I gave my all, often I canceled myself to receive a little word of affection, sometimes things went better, sometimes worse (they have always lasted little, anyway).

If I think back to those few messages that I now remember BY HEART from those guys, it’s enough for me to be less worse. I think of what they wrote to me and I repeat “Yes, Rox, you are strong … you can overcome everything!” But then I think that even if, yes, I can do it, I wonder WHAT IS THE POINT OF DOING IT… I feel lonely, terribly lonely, I don’t know people to talk to about such things. I’m here to talk to you. I talk about it on other forums – even about other subjects – on which I’m writing. And I don’t even want to end writing this post, because ending it would mean going to bed crying and listening to depressed music. I want to write here everything that passes through my mind. At the beginning I had titled this discussion “gay and in an isolated mountain area” but right now I have changed to “my cry of pain”. I cannot take it anymore. Life goes on and I look at it from behind the glass of my window. Time runs and I spend time waiting for it to continue to pass as fast as possible. I leave you with the song that most I listen to when I feel so much down … Everything passes, of the Huga Flame.

Everything goes, it’s true, but when will all this pass even for me? Reading about 13, 14 year old boys who already have a boyfriend … it makes me so angry and sad, also because they are all from Turin, Milan, Bologna, at most Rome … I’m here … I don’t know what to write. I won poetry and philosophy contests, I think I’m a sweet, shy and sensitive guy … but maybe this is not enough today to be liked, but I’m not going to change because of the others … because I love to be exactly like I’m, and this is the most important thing. I have beautiful eyes (according to others … otherwise I would not let me say) and anyway the rest of my face and my body although I’m not really a model doesn’t even disgust, yet this is what I provoke in many people, DISGUST. I suck them. And although I try to ignore it, and in fact it is waning compared to a few years ago when I didn’t reason on the basis of ME but based on the OTHERS, anyway all this hurts me.

I feel alone, fuckily, damned alone. And I would just like someone who now, right now as I’m writing, would lock my hands and bring them around himself and to my slightest protest would give me a kiss so long as to cancel everything that is around me, around him, around us. I don’t know what I expect as answers. The answers you’ll give me will probably not change my situation, but I wait for them impatiently anyway, as a child waits for Santa. MAKE IT STOP, LET THIS END … I feel a lot, too much, like in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP4clbHc4Xg

Oh, I add, since in the end I stayed at the computer even if it’s 5.09 a.m. and I hear the birds chirp (but what does it matter to me, if the birds are chirping?), now more than resigned I’m pissed off. I always alternate those two states of mind … a little I’m pissed off a bit I’m resigned. What a sadness! Right now I was thinking about the fact that so far, although I have had some (very few) relationships (mostly online) it’s been me the one who did EVERYTHING. The others stayed passively with me (not in the sexual sense, but in the sense that they didn’t consider it too much important if they were with me or not), except for a boy. I feel so different, different from anyone. It doesn’t matter if gay or straight, If male or female, I feel different, almost on another planet. And this sensation it’s not very cool, it’s really distressing … sorry for the strange expression. Feeling so different … feeling that I can never really like someone … makes me want to disappear …

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-the-cry-of-pain-of-a-young-gay