GAY PAMPERING VERSUS GAY SEX

Hello Project,
I’m twenty years old and study engineering and all in all I’m pretty happy about my life. After some hesitation, I decided to write to you because reading for a long time your sites, I have been struck by the fact that you talk a lot about the affective world of gays rather than about the sexual one. By browsing the internet, I find a huge amount of gay sexual content or that looks gay, but in practice I do not find references to the gay affective world, which for me is very important. 
I confess that I considered myself as a sui generis  gay and asked myself several times if there was something wrong with me, since for me the idea of sex without love is inconceivable, that is, I cannot understand sex as a game, like something that can be done with the first cute guy passing and that is available. Until about a year ago I saw a lot of pornography but somehow I censured it by myself, I saw the part I was interested in, the most affective, then when the video went through the penetration I changed video. I feel 100% gay, I never fell in love with a girl, not even at minimal levels, but, I tell you clearly, I never had fantasies about anal penetration, which is something I cannot even conceive. 
I think of sex with a guy as something extremely sweet, tender, affectionate, with no script to be respected, I see it a little bit like a free and disinhibited being in two, a thorough reciprocal knowledge even from that point of view. For me, the fundamental thing would be to see my boyfriend’s convincing participation. Some gay friends whom I have spoken about these things have puzzled me because they told me that my sexuality is immature, almost childish more than adolescent or adult, they think that I’m very inhibited, that I’m afraid of certain sexual practices, but in principle I have nothing against anal sex, if someone likes it, do it freely, but it certainly is something I don’t feel mine and frankly I don’t feel less gay because of this. 
As you say, there are so many ways of being gay and my is much more affective than sexual, I need a guy who loves me, who wants to pamper me and get pampered by me, and, dear Project, a guy can be pampered in a thousand different ways and not just in bed. I always dreamed of meeting a gay guy who would love me among my fellow students to be able to study together, but I often thought that if my boyfriend was studying other things, I would let him study quiet but at six in the afternoon I would take him a cup of tea with some sliced bread with a bit of butter and jam. This means also pampering for me. Pampering means taking care of the loved guy, trying to make him feel good. It is not trivial, loving a guy cannot be reduced to a sex issue, it takes a dimension of intimacy, mutual trust, credibility. 
I like sex, too, but it has to come all out of my mind spontaneously. And then hugging each other naked in bed is a way to have sex, is a direct and intimate contact with your boyfriend, a way of perceiving his warmth, her breathing, the beat of his heart, is just the shared intimacy that is beautiful and I really like it a lot. I understand and desire a true intimacy even without sex, but sex without affectivity, that is, without love I will never understand it. I’m romantic inside. I happened to find guys who made explicit suggestions about sex, but by saying that it was only sex for them, I replied: “No, thank you!” And they looked at me with astonishment, maybe it was the first time someone was saying them “No, thank you”. 
I dream of being in bed with my boyfriend, embracing him and seeing that he is good with me and that he wants to stay there, that our thoughts go in unison, that there are no mental reservations, double bottoms, and unambiguous motivations. I dream that we can caress, that we can huddle each other and then also do a bit of sex, but always in a reciprocal way, I dream to be able to intimately touch my boyfriend, to masturbate him and see that he’s is happy to be with me, obviously he would have with me the freedom to do spontaneously what he wants, the only limit must be what is good for me as well. This should be the only true limit of individual spontaneity: respect the limits of the other, never try to impose something. 
I have often found guys convinced that they had understood what sex was, who assumed that their way of seeing things was not only good for them but was the only way to see gay sexuality. Frankly, I do not think there are two gay boys with the same behaviors and the same sexual and affective desires. Cuddles are not something just for kids, and then there is a reflection that comes to my mind now: also animals like cuddles. My neighbor has a big white dog that people leave because they are afraid of him, but that dog when he sees me starts to wag his tail, then he falls to the ground and I start to caress him and he closes his eyes and I see that he is satisfied. The desire for pampering is so ancestral to be even common with animals, a bit like sex, because pampering transmits safety, tranquility, heat, in short, helps to be well. I think that many gay people like me really exist, though I have not met them so far. I greet you, Project, if you put this mail in your forum, maybe some gay lover of pampering will feel less alone and encouraged to go on.
David
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HOW TO SAY NO TO ANOTHER GAY

Dear Project,

I’m a guy not too much young, over 35, all in all I’ve been lucky enough in a number of ways: I have a job, I live on my own and in a sense I found my accommodation at least economically, that is, I do not have much anxiety for the future.

My underlying problem is loneliness. I did not and I do not want to come out publicly, but I have some gay friends, not very few, all in the closet, like me, and with them I’m fine, we are more or less the same mindset, we come from very similar social environments, shortly we understand each other well. And here, with my gay friends, my bigger problem is born.

I’ve seen that you have repeated many times that the “gay + gay = love” theorem does not work, does not correspond to reality and I can say that I’m the living example of your statement. When I met my gay friends I expected that theorem to work but it did not work. I often see them, I’m fine with them, but I never lost my head for any of them, maybe it just happened once and very superficially with a guy, but when we met “a little better” (and still very superficially), the interest has just vanished completely and when I did not hear him anymore I pulled a breath of relief. I also have straight friends, but I have never fallen in love with a straight guy, and I have never even had theoretical hypotheses on them. So far you can tell me that my situation is quite common, and so on, and that if I’m not susceptible to the affectivity, this is a problem of mine.

Okay, it might be true, but here’s the real problem. How do you behave when you realize you are in the interest of another guy but you do not have a felling for that guy? That’s exactly what happens to me at this time. I have noticed for a couple of months that one of my gay friends is interested in me, I understand it from his embarrassed behavior, from his always giving up, from his approaching me as often as possible. When these things happened at our group meetings, well, I did not take much notice, but then that guy started contacting me privately, sending me mails and messages. I tried to pretend, not to understand and answered in a banal way, but obviously my message, which was a “no, thanks” was not properly interpreted and he is continuing his approach maneuver.

He looks like a good guy, but very fragile, I think he’s living a love story with me that does not make any sense because I’m not interested. Let’s talk about it, I’m not interested because he does not attract me physically and I think nothing can be done. As a friend he’s fine. It’s not like a person that I reject him, he’s honest, correct, whatever you want, but I do not see him in any way as a hypothetical guy with whom to build a life together. When he calls me, what happens quite often, I try to stay on very neutral arguments and never go into personal issues, but I see that he remembers what I say, he always asks me for explanations and especially does not realize that I’m not interested.

Honestly, Project, I’m afraid of really hurting this guy by telling him brutally how things are, but also by pretending nothing, remaining in the vague and postponing the moment of clarification forever. I thought of possible solutions: cutting relationships with the group, that is, just disappearing from the circulation, which is, however, very complicated to accomplish, to tell him or to make him understand that I have another guy, and other things even more absurd. He is not overly insistent because he is controlled and limited, but I see that this behavior for him is not totally spontaneous.

He is younger than me, a few years younger, he is 31 years old, but is an adult man, I know, I understand, I see he needs love, more than sex, he needs a stable affection on which to count but his point of reference cannot be me, because it is not spontaneous for me. Sometimes he makes me little gifts, which I never return, but he keeps doing so. They are not objects of value but objects that have something personal, particular objects that he has sought on the basis of something I said and he did not forget, for example I had talked about the old Neapolitan aluminum coffee makers, those of the years ’50, and he gave me one. What should I do? Would you give him back gifts and tell him that there was no point in insisting on those things? I have not been able to do it.

When we talk I try to stretch the pauses, and he waits for hours too, I see that he is still there, that he has not gone and then I resume the conversation, which is not unpleasant, but on my side is forced, or at least a little forced. I’m afraid he’s developing a dependency and I do not know what to do, because I would not really hurt him. Time ago he used to send me good morning and good night messages, a little like lovers do. The first times I answered, then I started not answering and he stopped, but I had the obvious feeling of doing a bad thing. It did not cost me anything to go on with the messages, but those messages for him meant something else.

I thought maybe the best thing would be to speak clearly and tell him that I see him as a friend, what I have already said many times more or less explicitly, he thinks that friendship can turn into something else but I know that nothing will change. Project, perhaps it would look brutal, but if you do not like a guy physically, if you often hear and see him and have never made fantasies about him, how can you think that he can become your boyfriend? Physical appearance is very important. Staying with him and making fantasies about other guys would be just the worst way of staying with him, but I think that would happen just that. I cannot force myself to try a relationship that I do not feel instinctively mine, he would notice that it is something not spontaneous and it would be even worse.

I have to confess to you, Project, that the idea of trying anyway came to me because I think he would do anything to get close to me, somehow he would suit me, he would end up accepting anything but I do not want such things to happen, there would be no equality within the couple, what I think is absolutely crucial. In short, it’s just a critical moment, I know I cannot go on for a long time with postponements, I know I have to decide and I have to decide soon. I feel split in two, I know he’s a good guy, but I cannot pretend to be in love with him and I cannot even start a totally unbalanced relationship because in the end I would hurt especially to him.

He is also a nice guy, although he is not my type, and there are some common friends who would probably want to draw his attention, but he only thinks of me and every other hypothesis is totally impossible for him. I’m not in a good situation. I do not want to hurt that guy, but I did not fall in love and I do not know how to get out of this situation without making damages. I would be grateful if I knew what you think. If you want to post the mail, certainly you can, basically I think my problem is widespread and maybe reflecting on these things can also be useful for others.

I greet you and look forward to your mail.

_________

If you like, you can participate in the discussion of this post, on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/showthread.php?tid=142

BEING GAY AND LOOKING GAY

Dear Project,
you publish on your sites only edifying gay stories, beautiful love stories that I like a lot when I read them, but unfortunately I have never experienced such stories in practice. I know some gay guys like the ones who send you the mails you post on the forum, but I also met gays who were the exact opposite. It may also be that I have been unlucky but I want to tell you at least a significant fact that happened to me in early 2016. There is a gay guy, indeed there are two gay guys with two strange ways of doing, in my opinion they are not bad guys neither one nor the other, but to understand you have to read.
In the New Year’s Eve 2016, I met an exuberant, almost explosive guy who had impressed me so much: I will call him Tano, a beautiful smile, always telling jokes and laughing, also nice to talk to. In short, I liked him. I did not have a boyfriend at that time and my fantasy started working right away on him. During the New Year’s Eve we talked a bit, but there was a pounding noise and we had to go out into the backyard. I felt that I had also attracted his interest, even though we did only banal talk. Get out of the door to talk out in the yard, okay, but doing it with a girl, if you do it with a guy, it does not happen by chance. When we got home early in the morning we exchanged cell phone numbers. On January 2 I called him and he looked happy to hear me again, it was Saturday and the 3rd of January would be Sunday, I invited him to come with my group for a walk to the sea and we set an appointment for 8am.
My group is straight, this means above all that there are a 50% of girls and there are many couples; the guys in the group think that I’m 100% heterosexual, of course, because I have nothing to let them suspect that I’m gay and then such things are my business and I want to keep them for me. I did not know anything about Tano, if he was gay or straight, I only called him because I liked him. Obviously not even Tano knew anything about me, I only had met him the night before!
Sunday at 8.00am the guys in the group were already there, we were just 11, I said we had to wait for Tano, and instead of leaving we started chatting. At 8.30am Tano had not yet arrived, someone began to show signs of impatience. I called Tano on the phone, he told me he was coming. At 8.45 he showed up with his gorgeous smile. Nobody mumbled for his delay. Four couples went with two cars, I, Tano and another couple want with my car. Shortly after the departure Tano started doing stupid things, asking questions unimportant and very nosy to the couple who was in the car with us. He asked if they were a couple, which was absolutely obvious, and they asked him why he was alone, he replied that he was not alone but with me, that is with his boyfriend! I hurried up to deny everything and emphasize that I only had met him two days before, but he insisted doing stupid things: we were sitting on the front seats and the couple of friends were behind. I had my hand on the gear knob, he put his hand on mine. I told him, “Stop, I’m driving!” Then he pulled his hand back in a very theatrical way and told me, “What’s up? What did I do?” Then he asked the couple, “What do you think about gay couples?” Frankly at that moment I would have killed him!
The guys on my group have full control over themselves and know how to behave in every situation and respond impeccably according to the manual of good education and avoid being dragged into strange speeches. When the girl realized that Tano’s talk was heavy and he insisted a little too much, came in my defense: “Tano, I think you have chosen the wrong person, I know Silvia, his girlfriend, they have been together for two years!” But Tano insisted: “You didn’t tell me that … ok, perhaps you’re a bit bisexual!” I was just losing patience. “Tano, do you want to get off the car here?” And he answered, “But what did I say? But I cannot even talk?” Of course Silvia does not exist at all, but Tano didn’t know it. The girl resumed the talk about Silvia, and I also cautiously played my part. Silvia became more and more concrete in front of Tano’s eyes and the gay fairy behaviors ended. For all the rest of the trip we only talked in three. Tano was practically out of the game, perhaps he was expecting a gay group of friends, but found one straight (or almost) and he felt uncomfortable.
When we arrived at the sea, with the other guys he kept a polite behavior albeit easy, nothing similar to what happened during the trip. When we were at the table, I was sitting in front of Tano, I got a call on the cellphone, I answered. It was the girl who was with us in the car. She told me: “I see that you have “that guy” in front of you, do as if your girlfriend really called you, otherwise you will never get rid of him.” I wanted the afternoon to pass safely and I agreed to pretend. I covered the cellphone with my hand not to let him hear what I was saying (and I was not saying anything) and I made very happy faces as if I was talking to my girlfriend. Tano pretended to look elsewhere but was attentive to my behavior. When I closed the phone he acted as if nothing had happened and started talking with the guy sitting beside him.
In January the night comes soon, and we came back home. We accompanied the two guys who were in the car with us, then I went to accompany Tano who apologized for the incident and said he did a stupid thing but he didn’t think he could cause any problems but added that he had thought I was not straight, and he did not know why, but he had thought so. At those moments I did not know what to say. I liked him, even though he was too intrusive and inopportune. I had to tell him that there was no girl at all and that we had teased him to keep him calm, but I would have lost him, on the other hand I would have lost him even if I had continued to play the role of the straight. I was really embarrassed. It would have been possible to overcome the embarrassment with physical contact that would be more meaningful than any speech, but a similar gesture would have prevented me from changing attitudes in case of necessity, that is, if Tano proved to be too intrusive or at any rate,  was really incompatible with me. In the end, I chose to continue to pretend to be a heterosexual who has a girlfriend, because the other road seemed too risky and above all too premature.
Tano was disappointed, but “if one is straight” there is little to do! In the following days he did not recall me and after a few days I called him, he was happy to hear me, but of official happiness, he was controlled in the his speeches and did not intend to prolong the phone call. For a couple of months we went on so, I called him, I tried to talk to him, but he was elusive, but my insistence began to seem strange to him. The first of March he made me an unexpected proposition, he told me: “I’m going to have a pizza with you if Silvia comes in.” It was a sign he had understood. I told him that it was fine and we made a date for the evening of the third of March at a restaurant.
I came first, asked to prepare a table for three and sat waiting for Tano. He arrived, saw the table for three and made a strange face: “I would not spoil the evening.” I told him that he would not spoil anything, and that Silvia was in the bathroom to reset a little. Then I told him to order and he replied, “No, I’ll wait!” And then I unveiled the mystery, but in degrees: “Silvia could not come because… she doesn’t exist …” Then on Tano’s face came back his mischievous smile: “Really?” “Yes” “Then you too …” “Eh …” “Wow!” Then, we had dinner in holy peace! So my story began with Tano, which lasts for almost two years, but I must be clear, I do not think Tano is without fault. We are happy together, this is what I can say, but we will never agree on certain things. I’m going to list Tano’s defects, or at least those I consider defects:
First of all he insisted that I would join his group of friends, which is not good for me, not because they are gay, but because they are very much posing, at least in certain situations, and do not understand that this may also annoy the other gays. There are six boys in Tano’s group, including Tano, if you take them one by one they are good guys, calm, who think before acting, but if you put them all together they become a public danger, they unleash themselves and can certainly create problems to one like me because I don’t like to deal with my homosexuality publicly. When Tano wanted to go with them I did not go with him, and after a while Tano himself did not go anymore, but we continued attending his friends of the group, one or two at a time. And I can say that Tano has accepted this solution.
Second, Tano at the beginning had the fixed idea that I should make a public coming out, which, apart from the fact that I do not like it in any case, is something too much risky, because such a thing could cause me great problems at work. Now he  accepted the idea that we can be a couple even if one is out and the other in the closet!
Third and last thing, this much more private, Tano considers sex as fun, which I find very ridiculous. I made him have the obsessive idea of prevention (before he was not too careful).
He has an idea of gay sexual behaviors, so to say, very classic and I don’t like it at all when he insists heavily to make me do things I don’t like. And here we once came to the brink of breaking. I said to him, “Being in two means being really in two, I’ve adapted myself to so many things to please you, okay, it’s fine, but elasticity must be on both sides, otherwise you have to find another guy!”
He thinks he is incarnating the essence of “gayness” and does not understand that he is just one of the many and that there are a lot of gays who are gay at 100% and who reason very differently. However Tano has a wonderful way of living sex, he’s just overwhelmed by sexuality. I would be less touched, but when I see him, I’m excited too, and things work very well.
Now a merit of Tano: he tells you things in the face, sometimes even brutally, and sometimes he kept me from doing big stupid things with his frankness. There is one thing I don’t think possible, that is that he can betray me, I’ll explain this statement better, I think it’s impossible that he can go with another guy “without telling me anything”, but I think he could go with another guy after talking about to me, and I’m afraid that something like this actually happens even if nothing like it has ever happened. Our couple’s life is not bad, but for me Tano is not a religion, our couple’s life is a reality to be checked out day by day.
Now we don’t live together, even though I have a house where I live alone, because the gossip would be destructive for both of us and I would also create enormous problems for my family. We are working hard both of us to buy a cottage in the country, with no neighbors, but houses cost a lot and it will take time, this is our dream as a couple at the moment.
Thanks for what you do, Project, of course you can post this mail on the forum, even Tano has read it and agrees.
Bye.
Pas and Tano
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GAY LOVE WITH LITTLE SEX

I’m 42, I’m gay, no need to say, I have had my own experiences, really few, only one meaningful that lasts for a couple of years and is still going on. Before this my being gay was limited to gay porn and a bit of fantasy. I had never had concrete opportunities. I met some gay guys through dating sites, actually a few guys, they seemed pretty reliable, we became friends, but it was a superficial friendship, they had their own group, their world, far away from mine. I slowly lost contact with those guys and I did not even notice it. I spent years working from morning till night to save some money and finally buy a home. Two years ago I bought a mini-apartment in the city center and I spent everything I had set aside and I still have to pay the mortgage, though not very heavy. From this point of view I felt satisfied, but my black hole was the affective life that, until two years ago, had never taken off. I am a very common type, I have nothing outstanding in any field, I’m physically a normal person, I do not think I’m particularly ugly, but at 42 I’m certainly not a nice guy and on the other hand I’ve never been. From the economic point of view I have a stable job, but nothing remarkable. I’m not a brilliant guy, I do not go to gay clubs or of any other kind, I spend my time working even when I’m home, because I connect with my office even from home, so I do not know what boredom is, while I certainly know what are fatigue and stress.
But now I come to the real reason for my mail. About two years ago I met through a meeting site a 26 year old guy (much younger than me). We exchanged some mail, we chatted a bit, he looked like a good guy. After a few days we met in person, and we went to have a pizza together, then we had some sex in the car, but only touching each other because I did not want to risks neither did he. Things of that kind had happened to me some other time and generally everything ended there, and we did not meet again. With him it was not like that. In fact, the next day I had already forgotten him because I took it for granted that everything was over, but that was not the case. He called me and told me that for him it had been a very important experience, he perceived my respect, the fact that I was trying not to make things difficult for him, that I did not want him to do anything that was not good for him as well, etc. 
He asked me if we could meet again and I told him yes. Frankly it seemed odd that he was looking for someone like me, 14 years older, and I felt a little agitated. When we met for the second time it was Sunday and we went to the sea together, it was summer, it was hot and we spent the whole day together, we had also some sex this time, I thought things would go further, but instead stopped at the same point of the previous time. I confess that such a thing not only did not upset me but for me it was a reassuring element. Being there with that guy was really nice, seen in swimsuit he was really a nice guy, and was standing there at sea with me … Was he there to have sex? Maybe, but it did not seem to me his real purpose. 
Between us, we created an almost familiar environment of mutual attentiveness, remembering all the words of the other, underlining that it was nice to be together and that a day like that was really important. Sometimes he looked almost absentminded and then smiled at me, he spoke little, silences were long, the facial expressions and the eyes were strongly communicative. At the end of the day we came back to the city. He did not want to be accompanied at home but only at the subway stop. When I got home I felt happy, oddly happy. What could I expect from that guy? Objectively little or nothing, yet it was also for me an absolutely unique Sunday. 
Within the next three days I did not hear him and I started to feel nostalgic about his presence, but I decided not to call him anyway. On the fourth day, at five o’clock in the afternoon, he sent me a message: “I’m under your house, would you like to walk a bit?” I replied, “Ok!” And I went down. As usual he spoke very little, but he asked many questions, he wanted to try to get a clearer idea of my life. He asked me if I had a boyfriend, if I had had one in the past, how I meant the couple’s life, what value for me had the sex and so many things of this kind. I first answered his questions but then I told him I did not know anything about him and he just said, “You’re right, sorry, I’m inappropriate and intrusive.” But he did not speak to me about himself. 
There have been moments of embarrassment, we did not know what to say, then he looked in my eyes for a few seconds and said, “Are you sure you want to know something about me?” And I said, “I think so.” He started with the latest times: still studying, lives at his parents’ home who do not know anything about him and they do not even suspect that he is gay because he has so many female friends and brings them home too. Through dating sites he met several guys, in fact, only 5, with whom he tried to build a relationship, but it was not possible because they were just looking for sex, so there were 5 disappointments. None of those guys were interested in building something or understanding how he really was. He tells me he feels comfortable with me, free, not crammed. 
Then he started another argument I did not expect, he told me that he had been raped at age 19 by a guy who then was known to be HIV positive, but luckily there were no consequences because that guy in all probability was not yet HIV positive at the time. He told me he did the test several times and that it always was negative. Then he told me that anal sex is an intolerable thing for him, because that practice reminds him of things he does not want to remember. He told me that the fact that I did not insist on doing things he didn’t want to do was greatly appreciated and asked if anal sex for me was very important. I told him that I have never had fantasies of that kind and that for me being gay is essentially an emotional issue, there is certainly sex, but as a form of tenderness, certainly not of aggressiveness or of dominance, which I would consider awful. 
The afternoon passed this way. Then he told me he had to study because he had to take an exam after about a month and we greeted. I thought that such a speech was a prelude to a separation of about a month but it was not so. The next day he called me and asked me if he could stay at my house because he needed tranquility to study. I was puzzled but then told him yes and after a couple of hours he joined me with a bag full of books and his computer. I had prepared the room, with the bed just made, the desk and the armchair, it was almost four in the afternoon, he settled in the room and then started studying, we exchanged only a few words. I went to my room to work. 
At about eight o’clock, I went to the kitchen and I prepared dinner, I put the plates for him on a tray and brought all to him in the room, he looked at me and made a wonderful smile. I said, “Be quiet, later I’ll bring you a coffee.” He studied until about 23 o’clock, then opened the door of the room and let me in, sat on the armchair and lay on the bed, he said we did not have to say a word and I did so. After a dozen minutes he told me, “Are you sorry if we do not do it today? … because I’m very tired and I need to sleep.” I told him that I just needed to see him smiling. He hugged me tight, then I asked him what time he wanted to be woken the next day, he said “At seven o’clock.” And I went to sleep in my room. 
The next morning I got up at 6.30 am, I went to the bar and took the breakfast for myself and for him and then brought it to him in the tray. I greeted him, told him that everything was ready for lunch in the fridge and went out to go to work. In the afternoon I found him very busy studying. He had not eaten, then I cooked something very quickly, he stopped studying and we had lunch together though it was advanced afternoon. In the 30 days before the examination there were also sexual contacts, always very light but desired by both sides, exchanges of reassuring tenderness. 
We talked very little, he was totally absorbed by the study, when he did not understand something he filled out pages of calculations to try to overcome the problem and if he could not he felt very depressed. The closer he approached the day of examination, the more he was anxious. The night before the exam we slept together embraced, but without sex. In the morning he went to the exams and I waited for the written test to finish. He seemed quite satisfied, but the anxiety was not completely vanished. The following day he sent me a message to tell me that the written test was fine and that he would have the oral examination the next day. Even that night we slept hugged. 
The next day I received another message: “All OK!” I came home after 6pm, he slept and I did not wake him up. I sat on the armchair beside his bed and I was there to see his rest. When he woke up he said, “I love you!” And I felt happy till the seventh heaven! There is also sex between us, but what I appreciate most is that love itself is fundamental to him. there was no formal statement of any kind between us, now he is at my house, also because it is close to university, he studies, I see him motivated, between us exists a very nice relationship that I never thought could be realized. Two years have passed and now I can no longer stay without him. The thing I like most is when he falls asleep in my arms. I’ve never experienced moments of deeper tenderness.
__________
If you like, you can participate in the discussion of this post, on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/showthread.php?tid=139

WHEN GAY RELATIONSHIPS COME TO AN END

I received a mail today that contained an excerpt of conversation between two gay guys. The conversation took place at the time of the end of their relationship. I have been asked to post the conversation on the forum, I do it gladly. Some little changes have been made in order to preserve privacy.

Actually, even though it is a conversation that concludes a relationship, the atmosphere is very quiet and sincere dialogue has not failed, even on the most thorny topics.

MARCO: Hey!
ESTEBAN: .. hello …
MARCO: There is some noise because I’m on the bus, tell me.
ESTEBAN: … sorry, if you cannot talk, call me at another time.
MARCO: No no, I hear you, tell me everything.
ESTEBAN: I’ve been a bit sick these days, nervous, I’m just sleepy, distracted, yesterday I also packed a car!
MARCO: I’m sorry.
ESTEBAN: I called you because I want to ask you a last favor, please do it, I have to understand the meaning of our path, what happened, because at some point I became a ballast for you! Tell me what you did these three days since I left your home. Did you feel alone, bored or calm?
MARCO: Quiet, you have to be quiet, I’m peaceful!
ESTEBAN: What did you do?
MARCO: … usual things, nothing particular or important …
ESTEBAN: tonight what will you do for your birthday? You deserve some fun …
MARCO: Well, if weather keeps nice I go to the theater! I don’t know, I have to decide, Lucy and Rose cannot accompany me, I think I’ll take Matthew, I know he will agree!
ESTEBAN: … Matthew … How about Mattew?
MARCO: Well, well, I told you I’m fine with him! What I have to say, it’s all so new, I don’t know, … you know I’m not sure of anything! Anyway yesterday we stayed together at his home!
ESTEBAN: … Together …?
(hush)
(sigh)
Did you already do that?
MARCO: what???
ESTEBAN: Yes, I wanted to ask if you did it already?
MARCO: Do you care if we did?
ESTEBAN: Yes, please, I need to understand!
MARCO: Yes, we did. But it was not even programmed, that is, I would never have imagined that a guy like him could be with one like me. We were walking around, then he asked if I would go to see a movie at his house … Eh eh eh, what a nice excuse eh!
(hush)
ESTEBAN: How was it?
MARCO: Well, strange, special, maybe I was expecting a little better, I do not know what to say. I was very much involved, however, with an involvement that with you I didn’t experience for a long time!
ESTEBAN: So why would you come with me as you had already started thinking about him?
MARCO: No, but, look, it is not over for him, it’s over because I did not feel anything anymore!
I was with you for affection. Perhaps I’ve always seen you more like a brother, a confidant, it’s normal, we’ve always been fine-tuned, it was always spontaneous for me to tell you everything, there was an exceptional understanding!
ESTEBAN: Did you enjoy it?
MARCO: Yeah, but he was a bit sheepish, he’s 20, he’s still a kid, and I too I do not have so much experience … You definitely were better than him! However, we did more or less the same things I did with you!
ESTEBAN: But at this point I ask you, in six months have I ever enjoyed you? Have you ever been attracted to me?
MARCO: Yes, please, you enjoyed me a lot! Attracted I think no or just a little, I was attracted a little just early in the way!
(hush)
Tell me, you think a guy can he be attracted to me?
You know I think I’m ugly, I want to know what can be interesting about me …
ESTEBAN: Well, I can tell you what I’ve seen in you! Then you have to give yourself the same answers to me!
MARCO: All right!
ESTEBAN: I have been attracted by you sweetness, by your brain, by the fact that you document, you care about everything, by your smile, and then by the fact that you talk, I do not know how you can say you are shy and closed!
MARCO: Thank you, we are both sweet. And physically?
ESTEBAN: well, physically you know, the answer is in the poem I sent you this morning for your birthday!
MARCO: … yes, so much stuff!
ESTEBAN: For me you are beautiful, I adore your skin, the blond of your hair, the hairs, the robust feet and the slender legs. Your big eyes .. And then yes, even your penis I like it very much, damn! How it swells! I still remember the last time we were together, you got up to go to the shower, you looked like a Watusi with this penis still perfectly upright …
MARCO: And after having done it three times, huh, you know I’m just 23!
ESTEBAN: Now it’s up to you!
MARCO: Well, let’s see … You’re definitely sweet, you have not always been, at first not so much, then yes. It’s not that I liked your character, but lately you’ve been able to give me some serenity. At the beginning of our story I saw that there was something wrong in you, you looked angry, sad, suffering. You absolutely have to laugh more. You have a wide mouth! And then open it to laugh, anyway yes you have a good smile! Look, you do not have to be serious because when you are, you’re really ugly! I also have to say you were too shy, then the fact that during Christmas you brought me to dinner with your friends and did not say anything about us I did not like it! Sincerely, I would appreciate more effort on your part. You’ve decided to just come out now and it’s a shame!
ESTEBAN: But I still have all my life in front!
MARCO: Then try not to go back or get lost! Anyhow I like it when you sing, you have a nice voice so you should do it! I’ve heard you in Spanish and I have to say that you change your voice, you’re wasted to speak Italian, but when you speak Spanish you get a nice voice! But did you always have that voice? And you look like a South American!
ESTEBAN: But you know that since I went to school I always presented myself as Stefano, I did not use my real name, it seemed to me that calling me Stefano they could accept me more easily.
MARCO: But why?
ESTEBAN: Then it seemed to me so.
MARCO: But I say that it’s such a beautiful name, exotic, and then it’s just beautiful … well, anyway, let’s go ahead. Your features are particular, I have to say, I do not even know how to define them … Surely they aren’t so common in Italy, there is little to do, you are not and you will never be like an Italian guy! You have a strange skin, which is hard to get used to, and the dark color speaks clearly! You have a beautiful body, I like your legs, massive, muscular, sure, a bit of belly, but ok! However, you have to give more value to yourself, you overlook yourself a lot, you dress badly, maybe this last period you have been slim and you have found yourself in large clothes without having time to renew the wardrobe. But you have to do it. We are not beautiful and this is why we need to be careful to enhance our strengths. Well, don’t put on sweatshirts because they’re bad for you, because you’re low, they shorten your shape and flatten you. Penis, I just do not like it circumcised, perhaps because I had never seen a circumcised penis before, anyway I like it not circumcised, just like mine. I doubt you’ll be able to reconstruct a foreskin, but listen to the other tips!
ESTEBAN: Of course you did not like me, the attraction was not reciprocal!
MARCO: But be patient, you have to think that for the first time you sent me a picture with a bad resolution in my opinion. Sure, you told me you were South American, but I expected maybe one with a Brazilian body. That is, if I think of South America I think of Brazil, I don’t know where your country is and how its inhabitants are. Even after we saw each other, I had always in mind the image of your body that I had made, and when we were together it happened that I had one thing in mind, but then I found myself near a body that did not match. With Matthew it was different, I saw him and I was immediately attracted to him, but I did not fall in love with a telephone voice like it happened with you, you at the beginning were a projection of my mind! There is little to say about the dick, I never thought about asking you if you were circumcised or not, and it did not seem to me that I should ask for a photo. There it is what happens when you meet someone on internet”
(Silence)
(sigh)
ESTEBAN: Sorry, that means I was lucky, you on the contrary got a bad surprise!
(sigh)
Okay, that’s enough for me. I renew my wishes and … I don’t know, if you like to take a walk or have a coffee, you know that I come to M ***** once a week to see the psychologist. If you like, let me know …
MARCO: Ok.
ESTEBAN: Bye!
MARCO: Bye!

_________

If you like, you can participate in the discussion of this post, on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/showthread.php?tid=133

GAYS AND RELATIONSHIPS WITH WOMEN

I would like to try to illustrate how women fallen in love with gay guys are trying to cope with the situation.

Below, with the author’s approval, I quote an email of a woman who has realized that her boyfriend had behaviors that are not typically straight.

“I’m writing to you because I need to clarify my ideas a bit, or maybe because I need to talk to someone.

I am a 25 year old girl and I fell in love with a guy a year older. He is a very nice and very sweet guy. I had previously been with other guys but a bit snooty and full of self and sometimes I was nervous, I thought that with such types I would never agree, then I found him and it was a completely different thing, he listened to me, talked a lot with me, behaving differently from other guys, being a friend, not hitting on me, and even if it seems absurd, I liked this behavior a lot. We have become intimate friends, let’s say so, so much cuddle some kissing but of tenderness, not of passion, almost it wasn’t not real to me.

He never talked about himself, but made me talk, I did not mind this at first. We met every day but I did not know if he had a girl (obviously no) or had had one before, it seemed that these topics did not exist. Then I tried to make the first step to loosen him up a bit, I do not like the expression but, in short, it was not just a friendship for me, and there I saw his fear, I did the math and I thought that he could be gay but I did not say anything to him.

With the passing of months we have known each other better and I even offered him to go live together, and in the end he told me that he was gay. I told him stupidly that it would not make any difference to me and that we had to live together, because I wanted to stay with him anyway, but he looked at me and said, “Silvia, do not get angry, but a gay guy can only be good with another guy.”

After this talk I felt very ridiculed, I wanted to get away from him because I interpreted what he had told me as a rejection, but I could not, I continued to see him, to console him when he was melancholic but he began keeping to himself more and more. I knew from other people that he probably had found a guy but I had not seen him for a long time and I resigned to the idea of not hearing him anymore. After experiencing the story with him, I think I will not fall in love with another guy, I’m stupid, I know, it makes no sense to fall in love with someone who doesn’t want you because he’s gay, but that’s exactly what happened to me.

Do you think that I can recover some relationship with him, I say just like a friend, of course, or do you think that he prefers to stay away? For me, if he has a boyfriend, is fine anyway, that would not create any problems, but maybe I’m still dreaming like a stupid woman, I think I don’t understand what kind of relationship a gay guy can have with a woman, that is, I understand it, but I do not want to understand it, I know that I still see him too much in the straight way to get along with him.”

This is a typical mail of a woman in love with a gay guy but of a woman really aware of reality. The story with the gay guy is over and she realizes that this guy will never be her boyfriend. She still wants him well, but she understands that in the name of that wanting well there is no sense in claiming a role that does not follow spontaneously and shared. If the guy goes away means he has to go his way and it makes no sense to try to hold him. After all, in this story, the guy never “deludes” the girl, does not objectively cross the boundaries of a simple but profound friendship, which means that his behavior does not cause misunderstandings.

The following mail is of a completely different content, but it is perhaps more interesting especially for the different way of acting of the guy who, voluntarily and guilty, causes the girl to err and eventually causes her reaction to resentment.

“Gays … nice people! I say it very ironically! But why I tell you so? So you’re convinced they’re all good guys. It is not true that just straight guys tease girls, the gays do much worse, and I, unfortunately, run completely into it. I came from a bad story with a little prat … I liked him very much physically but he was just gross and at the same time immature, in short, a real little prat! I was really angry.

I go to the disco once with my friends and there they introduce Marco to me, I do not like him either, Marco seems to me a little bit without character, the other one was rough but Marco seemed even slippery, he didn’t even inspire me at the sex level, and when it comes to guys I’m not one for subtlety. In practice, I do not care about him at all, but I notice he keeps an eye on me, when I try to look into his eyes, he turns his gaze, but keeps looking. I wonder, “But what is he searching for?” I decide and ask him. He only answers me: “You are cute!”

You know how it is, girls like such things, and then I say, “You are cute too!” But so, just for compliment, because he did not attract me at all, then we danced and in practice I lost my group and spent the evening with him who stayed in the disco alone! Yes he was there just alone, without friends! With my usual generic logic I thought that if one goes to the disco alone he goes there just hunting for girls and he, in fact, was courting me. The following week we continued to exchange messages.

Seen by day, in the sunlight he was less slippery than he seemed in the dark of the disco, he was not a great deal, a bit too plump, chubby, but, in short, he could still work. After a few days I got bored of this guy and I did not call him anymore, but he kept sending me messages as he was half in love, and provoked me saying that he was impressed and often thought of me and so many other things, but I was not really interested and I did not answer, or maybe only rarely, and only for education, but I was trying to keep myself in the neutral.

One night he calls me and tells me he is very bad and absolutely needs to talk to me about something very important. I tell him that if he has to vent he can do it with a friend or with a psychologist, but he insists, as if it were a very important thing, but does not tell me what it is, in the end I can’t do it anymore, I’m stressed by his insistence and I’ll tell him, “Okay, see you tomorrow.” He insists that it must be immediately, but I tell him it’s late and I do not know what to tell my mother and then he says it’s okay for the next day. The next night we meet and go to talk in the car.

I expect a clear and direct speech but it starts talking about generic things, I cannot figure out where this is all going down, I ask him explicitly why he wanted to talk to me, but instead of answering he insist on generic chatting. I ask him, “But are you kidding me?” I confess that I thought he might be one with some mental problem, maybe a maniac. I was just angry, I asked him, “What do you want from me?” And he took my hand, then I said, “I know, I understand! But you are not my type …” and there the contact between us took another way and we kissed, that is he was kissing me, I did not like too much but I was there.

When we broke away he said to me, “Do you think we could get together?” I said, “I do not know.” He said, “You are the first girl I really fell in love with” I took it as a compliment. After a couple of days we went to have some sex, that is to say, just to touch us because he proceeded very slowly in these things. He had a way of doing all his own, I would say above all contemplative. He told me that I was beautiful that is not true because I am a very ordinary girl but he looked at me with admiration, caressed me, but did not take the initiatives that usually guys take.

Anyway, we got together. Typically, guys tend to stay away from the girl’s family, he does not! He wanted to know my mother, my father, wanted to come to my house, a bit like a long time ago when there was the official engagement. He came to my house several times, my parents often invited him to lunch and his parents did the same, in a few months we become engaged in the classic way. All in all, it was all pretty nice, he was serious, he did not bother with the other girls, he was finishing his studies, and he would have found a good social position, even though these things were more interesting to my dad than to me. After a year of this kind of engagement in which we had also come to have sexual intercourses, always and only on my own initiative and insistence, finally we began to talk about marriage. My parents were happy and all in all I was happy too. We were always going around with friends on a Saturday afternoon and we were now an ironclad couple.

One day he tells me that he must unfortunately leave because he has an aunt who is very bad and cannot come with me the next Saturday, I tell him that it is fine and I do not mind. On Saturday, because there was a gay guy among our friends, this one proposes to go to a gay disco but where everybody can go for some fun, we decide and go. I feel like a fish out of water in that environment and I’m not going to dance but I sit a little defiled with two old friends. At some point I have the impression of seeing Marco on the dancefloor, dancing with another guy, the lights are hellish and it’s hard to recognize people, but in the middle of the flashes I guess he is, I’m still upset, but I’m not sure and on the other hand there are too many people and too much smoke to see well staying away, and certainly I would never get close enough to be recognized. I say to my friends that it is too hot and I have to go out a bit.

The disco is practically in the countryside and around there is a large parking lot for customers. I leave, I run into the parking lot and Marco’s car is there. I felt like breaking out for anger! I came back, I told my friends that I was sick and I wanted to go and we went home. They did not seen anything and had absolutely no idea that Marco was there.

The next morning Marco sends me the usual good sms, I ask him how his aunt is and he tells me she is “better”. Well, I was so mad I couldn’t see straight! I replied, “I saw where you were really last night. Get out of my face because if I see you again I’ll poke your eyeballs out!” Despite all he continued to lie and accuse me of homophobia! I did not answer him anymore and the story was over. I do not tell you the messing up at home, I could not tell them what happened, otherwise I would have been considered stupid all my life, so my parents gave me all the blame “because he was a very good guy”, and so on. That’s what a gay guy did to me!

Let’s see if you have the courage to publish such a mail! However I’m not angry with you, it’s obvious, but you do not imagine how slippery can be a gay guy who wants to use you as a screen woman, it’s just something hateful.”

__________

If you like, you can participate in the discussion of this post, on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/showthread.php?tid=132

PARENTS OF GAY SONS

Dialogue between parents and sons
 
In order to create a form of mutual respect and genuine affective contact between parents and sons, parents have to set aside all the predetermined roles and have to play without hiding behind comfortable attitudes that actually prevent their cons from really knowing their own parents.
 
Generally speaking, for a gay boy, perceiving that parents play a role, even in a positive way, but are not themselves and are not sincere, is equivalent to a refusal. And that perception is objectively correct.
 
In a serious dialogue, and especially if it is about sex or even homosexuality, there can be no a priori presuppositions. If the answers to give to your son already exist before each comparison of ideas, dialogue is only apparent. Whenever a parent tries to talk to his homosexual son aiming to convince him of something, i.e. by taking for granted what he will say to his son, regardless of the dialogue with his son himself, that parent is offending the dignity of his son and is creating a false dialogue.
 
With sons, and in particular with gay sons, it is indispensable to be 100% honest. In most cases, sons do not speak to parents about their homosexuality, and I would add that in most cases they do the right thing.
 
What I’m saying is that sons are often afraid of the reactions of their parents, and when fear comes into the relationship between parents and sons, the relationship between them is strongly spoiled. The guys I met through Gay Project, and with whom I often meet in chat, want to hear from me the confirmation that being gay means having a dignity, a morality, a high human dimension, not less than that of any other condition of life.
 
Often the less informed or less seriously informed parents have a completely prejudicial view of the gay world, identify it with the most striking and spectacular stereotypes seen on television … but no! Gays, the real ones, they have nothing to do with these things, I know so many of all ages and are people very reliable who work, who try to believe in what they do and who often live in conditions of non-liberty because where they live homosexuality is not accepted.
 
There are people hiding (the great majority!), I call them “the invisible people,” and hiding because they are afraid, not because they have something to hide. I’ve seen gays living very deep forms of love, with or without sex, no matter who gave them a serious affective response. I saw young boys literally destroyed by their parents’ misunderstanding and a thousand times repented of having come out in the family.
 
Coming out  to parents usually causes anxiety and big hesitation in boys because very often the relationships between parents and sons are formalized and are reduced to relationships between roles rather than between people.
 
Parent’s role of support.
 
What must a parent do if he/she comes to know that his/her son is gay (from the son’s coming out or otherwise)? The answer may seem trivial, but a parent who realizes that his son is gay, if he/she loves him, must help him to be gay. A boy told me: “After all, I had had a lion’s courage to talk to them … but they just took it in a strange way and said I had to cure myself.”
 
Such a kind of attitude for a gay boy is equivalent to abandonment, a non-acceptance. Accepting does not mean trying to change the situation and not even hope for it to happen if there is an attempt to change things or the hope that things change, this means that acceptance is not there.
 
Being gay is not a choice but it is a basic quality of a person about which there is nothing to decide but everything to accept. Rejecting the fact that your son is gay means refusing your son from every point of view. Loving sons means loving them as they are!
 
Parents and sex education of gay sons
 
Gay-friendly parents, generally, often in good faith, believe they have nothing to say about affective and sexual education of their sons, but they are completely wrong. A gay boy must learn from his parents to be a serious gay, to consider sexuality a fundamental thing and to live it in an affective dimension characterized by honesty and respect for himself and others.
 
But apart from moral principles, parents can also play a major role in directing boys to responsible sexual behaviors in order to put aside any risky behavior. The parent’s insistence on this point is generally considered by the boys as a form of positive interest and, in essence, as something rewarding. A twenty-year-old gay guy, who had a good relationship with his family, told me an episode that I quote for you here below through a passage of one of his mails.
 
At a certain point, I had quarreled with my boyfriend or maybe I was just a little tired of him, and although I was still in touch with him, I had begun to attend gay clubs and look for guys to have fun, without him knowing it, and my dad did something for which I will never stop thanking him. One night he waited until I went home, in practice until the morning, and he clearly told me that between loving a guy and going to be crazy to have fun there was a huge difference but if I wanted to get along with him, I had to do things seriously, he said to me: you must respect your boyfriend, because he is a boy like you and you are now cheating him, and if you behave in a less than respectful way toward the guy you say you are in love with, you lack of dignity. And he concluded like this: a gay guy must be a guy as he ought to! I think I will not forget such words anymore!
 
With this example I mean that a parent can and must play a role in relation to the gay sons and that role is to convey to the son the sense of dignity and respect for himself and for others, which are fundamental values for everyone.
__________
If you like, you can participate in the discussion of this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/showthread.php?tid=131