I’m a guy not too much young, over 35, all in all I’ve been lucky enough in a number of ways: I have a job, I live on my own and in a sense I found my accommodation at least economically, that is, I do not have much anxiety for the future.
My underlying problem is loneliness. I did not and I do not want to come out publicly, but I have some gay friends, not very few, all in the closet, like me, and with them I’m fine, we are more or less the same mindset, we come from very similar social environments, shortly we understand each other well. And here, with my gay friends, my bigger problem is born.
I’ve seen that you have repeated many times that the “gay + gay = love” theorem does not work, does not correspond to reality and I can say that I’m the living example of your statement. When I met my gay friends I expected that theorem to work but it did not work. I often see them, I’m fine with them, but I never lost my head for any of them, maybe it just happened once and very superficially with a guy, but when we met “a little better” (and still very superficially), the interest has just vanished completely and when I did not hear him anymore I pulled a breath of relief. I also have straight friends, but I have never fallen in love with a straight guy, and I have never even had theoretical hypotheses on them. So far you can tell me that my situation is quite common, and so on, and that if I’m not susceptible to the affectivity, this is a problem of mine.
Okay, it might be true, but here’s the real problem. How do you behave when you realize you are in the interest of another guy but you do not have a felling for that guy? That’s exactly what happens to me at this time. I have noticed for a couple of months that one of my gay friends is interested in me, I understand it from his embarrassed behavior, from his always giving up, from his approaching me as often as possible. When these things happened at our group meetings, well, I did not take much notice, but then that guy started contacting me privately, sending me mails and messages. I tried to pretend, not to understand and answered in a banal way, but obviously my message, which was a “no, thanks” was not properly interpreted and he is continuing his approach maneuver.
He looks like a good guy, but very fragile, I think he’s living a love story with me that does not make any sense because I’m not interested. Let’s talk about it, I’m not interested because he does not attract me physically and I think nothing can be done. As a friend he’s fine. It’s not like a person that I reject him, he’s honest, correct, whatever you want, but I do not see him in any way as a hypothetical guy with whom to build a life together. When he calls me, what happens quite often, I try to stay on very neutral arguments and never go into personal issues, but I see that he remembers what I say, he always asks me for explanations and especially does not realize that I’m not interested.
Honestly, Project, I’m afraid of really hurting this guy by telling him brutally how things are, but also by pretending nothing, remaining in the vague and postponing the moment of clarification forever. I thought of possible solutions: cutting relationships with the group, that is, just disappearing from the circulation, which is, however, very complicated to accomplish, to tell him or to make him understand that I have another guy, and other things even more absurd. He is not overly insistent because he is controlled and limited, but I see that this behavior for him is not totally spontaneous.
He is younger than me, a few years younger, he is 31 years old, but is an adult man, I know, I understand, I see he needs love, more than sex, he needs a stable affection on which to count but his point of reference cannot be me, because it is not spontaneous for me. Sometimes he makes me little gifts, which I never return, but he keeps doing so. They are not objects of value but objects that have something personal, particular objects that he has sought on the basis of something I said and he did not forget, for example I had talked about the old Neapolitan aluminum coffee makers, those of the years ’50, and he gave me one. What should I do? Would you give him back gifts and tell him that there was no point in insisting on those things? I have not been able to do it.
When we talk I try to stretch the pauses, and he waits for hours too, I see that he is still there, that he has not gone and then I resume the conversation, which is not unpleasant, but on my side is forced, or at least a little forced. I’m afraid he’s developing a dependency and I do not know what to do, because I would not really hurt him. Time ago he used to send me good morning and good night messages, a little like lovers do. The first times I answered, then I started not answering and he stopped, but I had the obvious feeling of doing a bad thing. It did not cost me anything to go on with the messages, but those messages for him meant something else.
I thought maybe the best thing would be to speak clearly and tell him that I see him as a friend, what I have already said many times more or less explicitly, he thinks that friendship can turn into something else but I know that nothing will change. Project, perhaps it would look brutal, but if you do not like a guy physically, if you often hear and see him and have never made fantasies about him, how can you think that he can become your boyfriend? Physical appearance is very important. Staying with him and making fantasies about other guys would be just the worst way of staying with him, but I think that would happen just that. I cannot force myself to try a relationship that I do not feel instinctively mine, he would notice that it is something not spontaneous and it would be even worse.
I have to confess to you, Project, that the idea of trying anyway came to me because I think he would do anything to get close to me, somehow he would suit me, he would end up accepting anything but I do not want such things to happen, there would be no equality within the couple, what I think is absolutely crucial. In short, it’s just a critical moment, I know I cannot go on for a long time with postponements, I know I have to decide and I have to decide soon. I feel split in two, I know he’s a good guy, but I cannot pretend to be in love with him and I cannot even start a totally unbalanced relationship because in the end I would hurt especially to him.
He is also a nice guy, although he is not my type, and there are some common friends who would probably want to draw his attention, but he only thinks of me and every other hypothesis is totally impossible for him. I’m not in a good situation. I do not want to hurt that guy, but I did not fall in love and I do not know how to get out of this situation without making damages. I would be grateful if I knew what you think. If you want to post the mail, certainly you can, basically I think my problem is widespread and maybe reflecting on these things can also be useful for others.
I greet you and look forward to your mail.
If you like, you can participate in the discussion of this post, on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/showthread.php?tid=142
I received a mail today that contained an excerpt of conversation between two gay guys. The conversation took place at the time of the end of their relationship. I have been asked to post the conversation on the forum, I do it gladly. Some little changes have been made in order to preserve privacy.
Actually, even though it is a conversation that concludes a relationship, the atmosphere is very quiet and sincere dialogue has not failed, even on the most thorny topics.
ESTEBAN: .. hello …
MARCO: There is some noise because I’m on the bus, tell me.
ESTEBAN: … sorry, if you cannot talk, call me at another time.
MARCO: No no, I hear you, tell me everything.
ESTEBAN: I’ve been a bit sick these days, nervous, I’m just sleepy, distracted, yesterday I also packed a car!
MARCO: I’m sorry.
ESTEBAN: I called you because I want to ask you a last favor, please do it, I have to understand the meaning of our path, what happened, because at some point I became a ballast for you! Tell me what you did these three days since I left your home. Did you feel alone, bored or calm?
MARCO: Quiet, you have to be quiet, I’m peaceful!
ESTEBAN: What did you do?
MARCO: … usual things, nothing particular or important …
ESTEBAN: tonight what will you do for your birthday? You deserve some fun …
MARCO: Well, if weather keeps nice I go to the theater! I don’t know, I have to decide, Lucy and Rose cannot accompany me, I think I’ll take Matthew, I know he will agree!
ESTEBAN: … Matthew … How about Mattew?
MARCO: Well, well, I told you I’m fine with him! What I have to say, it’s all so new, I don’t know, … you know I’m not sure of anything! Anyway yesterday we stayed together at his home!
ESTEBAN: … Together …?
Did you already do that?
ESTEBAN: Yes, I wanted to ask if you did it already?
MARCO: Do you care if we did?
ESTEBAN: Yes, please, I need to understand!
MARCO: Yes, we did. But it was not even programmed, that is, I would never have imagined that a guy like him could be with one like me. We were walking around, then he asked if I would go to see a movie at his house … Eh eh eh, what a nice excuse eh!
ESTEBAN: How was it?
MARCO: Well, strange, special, maybe I was expecting a little better, I do not know what to say. I was very much involved, however, with an involvement that with you I didn’t experience for a long time!
ESTEBAN: So why would you come with me as you had already started thinking about him?
MARCO: No, but, look, it is not over for him, it’s over because I did not feel anything anymore!
I was with you for affection. Perhaps I’ve always seen you more like a brother, a confidant, it’s normal, we’ve always been fine-tuned, it was always spontaneous for me to tell you everything, there was an exceptional understanding!
ESTEBAN: Did you enjoy it?
MARCO: Yeah, but he was a bit sheepish, he’s 20, he’s still a kid, and I too I do not have so much experience … You definitely were better than him! However, we did more or less the same things I did with you!
ESTEBAN: But at this point I ask you, in six months have I ever enjoyed you? Have you ever been attracted to me?
MARCO: Yes, please, you enjoyed me a lot! Attracted I think no or just a little, I was attracted a little just early in the way!
Tell me, you think a guy can he be attracted to me?
You know I think I’m ugly, I want to know what can be interesting about me …
ESTEBAN: Well, I can tell you what I’ve seen in you! Then you have to give yourself the same answers to me!
MARCO: All right!
ESTEBAN: I have been attracted by you sweetness, by your brain, by the fact that you document, you care about everything, by your smile, and then by the fact that you talk, I do not know how you can say you are shy and closed!
MARCO: Thank you, we are both sweet. And physically?
ESTEBAN: well, physically you know, the answer is in the poem I sent you this morning for your birthday!
MARCO: … yes, so much stuff!
ESTEBAN: For me you are beautiful, I adore your skin, the blond of your hair, the hairs, the robust feet and the slender legs. Your big eyes .. And then yes, even your penis I like it very much, damn! How it swells! I still remember the last time we were together, you got up to go to the shower, you looked like a Watusi with this penis still perfectly upright …
MARCO: And after having done it three times, huh, you know I’m just 23!
ESTEBAN: Now it’s up to you!
MARCO: Well, let’s see … You’re definitely sweet, you have not always been, at first not so much, then yes. It’s not that I liked your character, but lately you’ve been able to give me some serenity. At the beginning of our story I saw that there was something wrong in you, you looked angry, sad, suffering. You absolutely have to laugh more. You have a wide mouth! And then open it to laugh, anyway yes you have a good smile! Look, you do not have to be serious because when you are, you’re really ugly! I also have to say you were too shy, then the fact that during Christmas you brought me to dinner with your friends and did not say anything about us I did not like it! Sincerely, I would appreciate more effort on your part. You’ve decided to just come out now and it’s a shame!
ESTEBAN: But I still have all my life in front!
MARCO: Then try not to go back or get lost! Anyhow I like it when you sing, you have a nice voice so you should do it! I’ve heard you in Spanish and I have to say that you change your voice, you’re wasted to speak Italian, but when you speak Spanish you get a nice voice! But did you always have that voice? And you look like a South American!
ESTEBAN: But you know that since I went to school I always presented myself as Stefano, I did not use my real name, it seemed to me that calling me Stefano they could accept me more easily.
MARCO: But why?
ESTEBAN: Then it seemed to me so.
MARCO: But I say that it’s such a beautiful name, exotic, and then it’s just beautiful … well, anyway, let’s go ahead. Your features are particular, I have to say, I do not even know how to define them … Surely they aren’t so common in Italy, there is little to do, you are not and you will never be like an Italian guy! You have a strange skin, which is hard to get used to, and the dark color speaks clearly! You have a beautiful body, I like your legs, massive, muscular, sure, a bit of belly, but ok! However, you have to give more value to yourself, you overlook yourself a lot, you dress badly, maybe this last period you have been slim and you have found yourself in large clothes without having time to renew the wardrobe. But you have to do it. We are not beautiful and this is why we need to be careful to enhance our strengths. Well, don’t put on sweatshirts because they’re bad for you, because you’re low, they shorten your shape and flatten you. Penis, I just do not like it circumcised, perhaps because I had never seen a circumcised penis before, anyway I like it not circumcised, just like mine. I doubt you’ll be able to reconstruct a foreskin, but listen to the other tips!
ESTEBAN: Of course you did not like me, the attraction was not reciprocal!
MARCO: But be patient, you have to think that for the first time you sent me a picture with a bad resolution in my opinion. Sure, you told me you were South American, but I expected maybe one with a Brazilian body. That is, if I think of South America I think of Brazil, I don’t know where your country is and how its inhabitants are. Even after we saw each other, I had always in mind the image of your body that I had made, and when we were together it happened that I had one thing in mind, but then I found myself near a body that did not match. With Matthew it was different, I saw him and I was immediately attracted to him, but I did not fall in love with a telephone voice like it happened with you, you at the beginning were a projection of my mind! There is little to say about the dick, I never thought about asking you if you were circumcised or not, and it did not seem to me that I should ask for a photo. There it is what happens when you meet someone on internet”
ESTEBAN: Sorry, that means I was lucky, you on the contrary got a bad surprise!
Okay, that’s enough for me. I renew my wishes and … I don’t know, if you like to take a walk or have a coffee, you know that I come to M ***** once a week to see the psychologist. If you like, let me know …
If you like, you can participate in the discussion of this post, on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/showthread.php?tid=133
I would like to try to illustrate how women fallen in love with gay guys are trying to cope with the situation.
Below, with the author’s approval, I quote an email of a woman who has realized that her boyfriend had behaviors that are not typically straight.
“I’m writing to you because I need to clarify my ideas a bit, or maybe because I need to talk to someone.
I am a 25 year old girl and I fell in love with a guy a year older. He is a very nice and very sweet guy. I had previously been with other guys but a bit snooty and full of self and sometimes I was nervous, I thought that with such types I would never agree, then I found him and it was a completely different thing, he listened to me, talked a lot with me, behaving differently from other guys, being a friend, not hitting on me, and even if it seems absurd, I liked this behavior a lot. We have become intimate friends, let’s say so, so much cuddle some kissing but of tenderness, not of passion, almost it wasn’t not real to me.
He never talked about himself, but made me talk, I did not mind this at first. We met every day but I did not know if he had a girl (obviously no) or had had one before, it seemed that these topics did not exist. Then I tried to make the first step to loosen him up a bit, I do not like the expression but, in short, it was not just a friendship for me, and there I saw his fear, I did the math and I thought that he could be gay but I did not say anything to him.
With the passing of months we have known each other better and I even offered him to go live together, and in the end he told me that he was gay. I told him stupidly that it would not make any difference to me and that we had to live together, because I wanted to stay with him anyway, but he looked at me and said, “Silvia, do not get angry, but a gay guy can only be good with another guy.”
After this talk I felt very ridiculed, I wanted to get away from him because I interpreted what he had told me as a rejection, but I could not, I continued to see him, to console him when he was melancholic but he began keeping to himself more and more. I knew from other people that he probably had found a guy but I had not seen him for a long time and I resigned to the idea of not hearing him anymore. After experiencing the story with him, I think I will not fall in love with another guy, I’m stupid, I know, it makes no sense to fall in love with someone who doesn’t want you because he’s gay, but that’s exactly what happened to me.
Do you think that I can recover some relationship with him, I say just like a friend, of course, or do you think that he prefers to stay away? For me, if he has a boyfriend, is fine anyway, that would not create any problems, but maybe I’m still dreaming like a stupid woman, I think I don’t understand what kind of relationship a gay guy can have with a woman, that is, I understand it, but I do not want to understand it, I know that I still see him too much in the straight way to get along with him.”
This is a typical mail of a woman in love with a gay guy but of a woman really aware of reality. The story with the gay guy is over and she realizes that this guy will never be her boyfriend. She still wants him well, but she understands that in the name of that wanting well there is no sense in claiming a role that does not follow spontaneously and shared. If the guy goes away means he has to go his way and it makes no sense to try to hold him. After all, in this story, the guy never “deludes” the girl, does not objectively cross the boundaries of a simple but profound friendship, which means that his behavior does not cause misunderstandings.
The following mail is of a completely different content, but it is perhaps more interesting especially for the different way of acting of the guy who, voluntarily and guilty, causes the girl to err and eventually causes her reaction to resentment.
“Gays … nice people! I say it very ironically! But why I tell you so? So you’re convinced they’re all good guys. It is not true that just straight guys tease girls, the gays do much worse, and I, unfortunately, run completely into it. I came from a bad story with a little prat … I liked him very much physically but he was just gross and at the same time immature, in short, a real little prat! I was really angry.
I go to the disco once with my friends and there they introduce Marco to me, I do not like him either, Marco seems to me a little bit without character, the other one was rough but Marco seemed even slippery, he didn’t even inspire me at the sex level, and when it comes to guys I’m not one for subtlety. In practice, I do not care about him at all, but I notice he keeps an eye on me, when I try to look into his eyes, he turns his gaze, but keeps looking. I wonder, “But what is he searching for?” I decide and ask him. He only answers me: “You are cute!”
You know how it is, girls like such things, and then I say, “You are cute too!” But so, just for compliment, because he did not attract me at all, then we danced and in practice I lost my group and spent the evening with him who stayed in the disco alone! Yes he was there just alone, without friends! With my usual generic logic I thought that if one goes to the disco alone he goes there just hunting for girls and he, in fact, was courting me. The following week we continued to exchange messages.
Seen by day, in the sunlight he was less slippery than he seemed in the dark of the disco, he was not a great deal, a bit too plump, chubby, but, in short, he could still work. After a few days I got bored of this guy and I did not call him anymore, but he kept sending me messages as he was half in love, and provoked me saying that he was impressed and often thought of me and so many other things, but I was not really interested and I did not answer, or maybe only rarely, and only for education, but I was trying to keep myself in the neutral.
One night he calls me and tells me he is very bad and absolutely needs to talk to me about something very important. I tell him that if he has to vent he can do it with a friend or with a psychologist, but he insists, as if it were a very important thing, but does not tell me what it is, in the end I can’t do it anymore, I’m stressed by his insistence and I’ll tell him, “Okay, see you tomorrow.” He insists that it must be immediately, but I tell him it’s late and I do not know what to tell my mother and then he says it’s okay for the next day. The next night we meet and go to talk in the car.
I expect a clear and direct speech but it starts talking about generic things, I cannot figure out where this is all going down, I ask him explicitly why he wanted to talk to me, but instead of answering he insist on generic chatting. I ask him, “But are you kidding me?” I confess that I thought he might be one with some mental problem, maybe a maniac. I was just angry, I asked him, “What do you want from me?” And he took my hand, then I said, “I know, I understand! But you are not my type …” and there the contact between us took another way and we kissed, that is he was kissing me, I did not like too much but I was there.
When we broke away he said to me, “Do you think we could get together?” I said, “I do not know.” He said, “You are the first girl I really fell in love with” I took it as a compliment. After a couple of days we went to have some sex, that is to say, just to touch us because he proceeded very slowly in these things. He had a way of doing all his own, I would say above all contemplative. He told me that I was beautiful that is not true because I am a very ordinary girl but he looked at me with admiration, caressed me, but did not take the initiatives that usually guys take.
Anyway, we got together. Typically, guys tend to stay away from the girl’s family, he does not! He wanted to know my mother, my father, wanted to come to my house, a bit like a long time ago when there was the official engagement. He came to my house several times, my parents often invited him to lunch and his parents did the same, in a few months we become engaged in the classic way. All in all, it was all pretty nice, he was serious, he did not bother with the other girls, he was finishing his studies, and he would have found a good social position, even though these things were more interesting to my dad than to me. After a year of this kind of engagement in which we had also come to have sexual intercourses, always and only on my own initiative and insistence, finally we began to talk about marriage. My parents were happy and all in all I was happy too. We were always going around with friends on a Saturday afternoon and we were now an ironclad couple.
One day he tells me that he must unfortunately leave because he has an aunt who is very bad and cannot come with me the next Saturday, I tell him that it is fine and I do not mind. On Saturday, because there was a gay guy among our friends, this one proposes to go to a gay disco but where everybody can go for some fun, we decide and go. I feel like a fish out of water in that environment and I’m not going to dance but I sit a little defiled with two old friends. At some point I have the impression of seeing Marco on the dancefloor, dancing with another guy, the lights are hellish and it’s hard to recognize people, but in the middle of the flashes I guess he is, I’m still upset, but I’m not sure and on the other hand there are too many people and too much smoke to see well staying away, and certainly I would never get close enough to be recognized. I say to my friends that it is too hot and I have to go out a bit.
The disco is practically in the countryside and around there is a large parking lot for customers. I leave, I run into the parking lot and Marco’s car is there. I felt like breaking out for anger! I came back, I told my friends that I was sick and I wanted to go and we went home. They did not seen anything and had absolutely no idea that Marco was there.
The next morning Marco sends me the usual good sms, I ask him how his aunt is and he tells me she is “better”. Well, I was so mad I couldn’t see straight! I replied, “I saw where you were really last night. Get out of my face because if I see you again I’ll poke your eyeballs out!” Despite all he continued to lie and accuse me of homophobia! I did not answer him anymore and the story was over. I do not tell you the messing up at home, I could not tell them what happened, otherwise I would have been considered stupid all my life, so my parents gave me all the blame “because he was a very good guy”, and so on. That’s what a gay guy did to me!
Let’s see if you have the courage to publish such a mail! However I’m not angry with you, it’s obvious, but you do not imagine how slippery can be a gay guy who wants to use you as a screen woman, it’s just something hateful.”
If you like, you can participate in the discussion of this post, on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/showthread.php?tid=132