Hi Project, a few days ago, surfing the net, I found your forum and started reading. I must say that I was very impressed because there are no obvious things. I begin to read a story or an email and I imagine an ending a bit like in a porn video, but then the story doesn’t work at all like that at all. Above all there is one thing that strikes me, there is also sex, but all in all it does not have a dominant position, it is not an obsessive idea, there is sex, it is important, but there are also feelings. Reading such things pleases me because I feel at home in them and I identify myself with some of the protagonists. Let’s talk a little about me. I’m 24 years old, I’m about to get my Master Degree and I feel realized from this point of view. I’m passionate about my studies which are not at all heavy for me, because I study things that I want to study. My family is not bad, my father is almost 60 years old, he has always tried to give me maximum autonomy, perhaps precisely because he knows that I would not abuse his trust, I have never been able to understand him, he treats me affectionately but I realize that I’m probably a concern for him, even if I don’t understand why, since I never had problems with studying and I think that afterwards I won’t even have problems finding work. I will come back later to this point because it is important, that is, it is important to me. My mother is not yet 50 years old, she feels a beautiful woman and in the end she is. I see her as very calm and even absent-minded when it comes to me and my situation, a bit the opposite of my father, that is, she sees me as someone who will never have problems and who is going on very well. Then there would be my sister, who is 28 years old and who got married six years ago. There was never a real relationship with her, that is, we never spoke with an open heart and she was not substantially interested in my life. You may have wondered why I didn’t say “I’m gay” up to this point. Here, in reality, even if it is absurd at the age of 24, I still have many doubts, or rather I have no doubts but I find myself living a very particular situation. I have a girlfriend since I was 18, and she 15, I will call her Mary. I have to try to make you understand the meaning of our relationship because it is more complicated than it may seem from outside. I’m fine with Mary, that is, I love her, she’s a very good girl and she loves me too, but she’s very different from the other girls and perhaps for this reason I really love her. We have been together for almost 6 years and have never had sex and not even things that vaguely resemble sex. She never asked me and never made me understand that she needs also sexual involvement. Some things are paradoxical: in public she’s very loose with me, kisses me on the mouth, caresses me, but when we are alone (which also happens rarely) there is none of this. Basically this is the reason why we stay together: I don’t feel cornered, for me, in essence she is a friend, a true friend but nothing else, that is, she’s not my girlfriend in the sense that guys generally give this expression, and there is also another reason, she not only doesn’t put me in a tight spot in order to induce me to have sex but when we talk, and at least we talk a lot on the phone, she never asks me for explanations, that is, she accepts our relationship as it is, without asking me and without asking herself questions of any kind. If we don’t meet on a Saturday, I just need to say that I can’t and she won’t even ask me why. I want to emphasize that she considers me an important person. Last year I went to the hospital for a small surgery and she came to all the relatives’ visits and she didn’t miss the visit a single time, she did it also because my parents were there and she had to play the role of the official girlfriend, but if my parents weren’t there, she would have come all the same. Project, I asked myself many questions about Mary, but I should have asked her those questions, but as she has always respected my privacy, so I too have always respected hers and I know very well that I must not pester her and I must not meddle in her things. Now I go back to my father. I think he’s worried because, despite Mary’s efforts to do her best  as girlfriend, my father begins to suspect that there is something strange about our engagement. We meet but it is clear that there is not all the involvement that should be there. I suspect that my father blames Mary for all this, that in essence he accuses her of being cold and detached, almost of playing the role of the girlfriend at best but not feeling in that role at all. My father thinks that the relationship with Mary makes me suffer but it is not at all like that, indeed the relationship with her calms me down, gives me serenity. In fact, my relationship with Mary is out of all the rules, she never talks about marriage and on the contrary in the speeches that are made with friends she has said many times that marriage is not needed if you love each other and it is a slavery in any other situation. And now something about me. I know I’ve always been gay, I’ve never had sexual interests for a woman, yet, I will tell you, Project, I think that living with Mary would be good and I never thought the same thing of a boy. We could be a couple without sex and at best with a little pampering, but sometimes I think that she would never accept a “bond” with me. I want to be explicit. All the other women don’t interest me at all, but Mary does, that is, it makes me tenderness, apart from the fact that I always wonder what is behind her behavior. I thought that she could be a lesbian, and she really could be, and the fact that she never spoke of such a possibility avoiding even the slightest hints, certainly does not eliminate suspicions, because I too have never spoken to her about my homosexuality. But not having talked about it, after all, is not a reticent behavior, that is, it is not a deception, we know very well that each of us has a private life and that that private life must be respected. On the gay side, so far, I have never had a story or anything similar to a story. I have a lot of fantasies and I go on with those and with some porn. Today as today the relationship with Mary doesn’t complicate anything for me, but what if I find a guy? I don’t know what could happen. I think that for Mary practically nothing would change and that maybe she would be happy too, the fact is that having a boyfriend is not compatible with having a girlfriend who has known your family for years. And then how could I tell my father that I’m gay? Mary also gave me a strange speech, she told me that if today or tomorrow our relationship ends, she would absolutely not make it a tragedy, we could remain friends as well and she said it with full conviction. I mean, Project, I like this girl. Sex has nothing to do with it, but I like her because she thinks like me, and between us, unlike what my father thinks, there is a practically perfect harmony. Project, I’m not cheating Mary and she’s not cheating me. Asking for explanations seems clearly out of place because I also don’t want to give explanations and then I believe there is no need for explanations. Even with my father I think it will go on like this. I don’t see any need to clarify. Then, if I would happen to find a boyfriend, then I will ask myself a lot of questions, but now, in my opinion, things must go on like this. What do you think about it? p.s.: If you want to publish this email do it freely. I have changed something of the details but the story in substance is that.


If you want, you can participate in the discussion on this post open on the Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-i-m-gay-but-i-m-fine-with-my-girlfriend


Hello Project, only in this days I have met your beautiful and very useful site and I have found several answers to my “troubles” and I must say that at least in part and thanks to you I feel a little less agitated. I am writing to you, however, because I think that my experience may also be useful to others (so I authorize you to post this email, if you think it appropriate), and above all because I would like to have advice on how to behave or better, on what is your best way to deal with my situation with less anxiety. And then I’m just fine to talk about it, because I’ve never talked to anyone and then I’ve been carrying this weight for 30 years now. So I would like it to be clear what a great step I’m going to make.

I am 44 years old (and also because of this I have written because I read that you like to increase the number of “no longer boys”, as you call them, who bring their experiences.

I am happily married to a wonderful woman and I have two beautiful kids. I want to underline it because I love my wife to madness and she loves me even more, if possible, and with her there is also a good sexual harmony: I find myself satisfied on that side, also because, without exaggerating, we occasionally experience something new. The only flaw is that over the years (12 of marriage) the frequency of the sexual intercourses has diminished. She too seems to me to be satisfied, but she would like to have a greater frequency in the intercourses.

But let’s get to the point. Ever since I started masturbating, that is, at 11, if I remember well, my sexual fantasies have always turned, at 95%, to homosexual contents. In most cases, depending on the time, the fantasies have seen me and see me even now in the passive role and in fact, from the beginning I had and still have a great pleasure in anal self-stimulation. I have never had any kind of sexual intercourse until the age of 28 and this does not seem normal to me. My sexuality was then expressed through masturbation. In truth, my discovery of attraction to the guys has never led me to any particular sense of guilt or to attempts of repression: I accepted it immediately, but at the same time I realized that it would not be easy to live my sexuality freely.

Girls for the truth I have always liked them, and even today if I see beautiful women, sexual thoughts come to my mind. Conversely, as many do, if you exclude the adolescent phase, I feel that I cannot find any affective interest in a man/boy: at best I could fall “sexually” in love with someone of them. As far as I’m concerned, honestly, I do not believe in love between two men; the true love I could have found, and really found presently is only with women, which I consider to be superior to men in this respect (I know you will not agree but that’s not the point).

Given the above, in adolescence, I was having trouble communicating with girls, both because of shyness and because I was conditioned by the social environment (at that time I lived in a small town) and by my mother in the sense that I did not want to be seen around with not nice girls because my mother always told me I was a good guy (that’s true) and that cute girls had to line up for me (obviously it’s not true, because I’m not particularly attractive). Perhaps I missed a strong push to have heterosexual intercourses because I probably liked more those gay. Surely I always liked better the male body. I also have always been involved in the studies and probably at that time masturbation was enough to calm my sexual appetites.

As far as the possibility of gay intercourses is concerned, even though, as has already been said, there was no problem neither moral nor of personal acceptance, living in a small town, even though there was no internet, there was anyway, of course, a strong social conditioning. etc. etc. I have never had real opportunities, nor have I really been looking for such opportunities (except for some timid approaches which have not led to anything). However, I lived quite serenely (blessed masturbation!) And by the truth I said to myself that the sexual intercourse between men was superior to that hetero because it gives the opportunity to enjoy with all parts of the body. Probably if I had more opportunities and more explicit, had there been internet with its beautiful sites (like this) that would help me overcome my shyness and, why not, less beautiful sites (porn movies) that would still make me understand many things about the gay world, I would have had my homosexual, traumatic or beautiful but still right experiences, because that was the age to make those experiences!

At that time, however, I could also have fallen in love with guys, what really happened with some comrades (without any possibility). When I left my little town to go to college in a big city, you could suppose that, freeing me from the conditioning of my old town and of my family, I could have experienced my first gay relationships but no! Again in this case, I was overwhelmed by other types of conditioning: first of all, and maybe it was also right, the commitment to the study, since I felt obliged to my parents who spent a lot of money to keep me in college, but also the fact that I was living in an apartment with one of my high school friends (and that’s where the little town comes back to me) plus two absolutely hetero guys totally locked up at any dialog. So I didn’t even have time to look for boys and girls and didn’t even have such a big desire.

I kept masturbating thinking of homo intercourses (during this time both active and passive, I imagine because, without having any experience, any way of feeling pleasure attracted me) and I was there “drooling” when I was seeing guys around or on television. When I finished my studies and started working, always in the big city, I went to live alone. At that point I said, “Finally I can arrange my life as I want, I can decide whether to have gay relationships or not, or go looking for girls!” But it was not that easy: I didn’t have a computer neither I was really interested in buying a computer, and at that time social networks and chats were still in the early days, during the university years I had been isolated from the social context and I almost had to fit into the social environment of the city, I did not know how to meet people, women or men, and those were even the first few months of the new job with all this entails, and I did not have the luck to have some bisexual colleague with whom to try something! I really was not so bad physically: not much beautiful in the face but with a muscular body, tall, wide shoulders, only with a slightly prominent belly but with a nice seat. I had started a first approach to gay pornography (magazines), but nothing more.

When at last (at the age of 28!) maybe because I felt alone, I decided that it was time to have sex (hetero or even gay), I first went with a female prostitute and lost my virginity. I must say that it was not traumatic, but I did not feel a particular pleasure. Then I started thinking that I could not go on like that and that I had to experience gay intercourses.

At that point, however, and I don’t know why (what do you think about, Project?) I felt also a strong need for paternity and “normality”: I absolutely wanted to have a family with a woman who loved me and that I could love, and also have children. I really wanted such things and not just to suppress my gay sexuality! So I thought that it was absolutely crucial to make a choice, a choice that really influenced all my life and that’s why I’m now writing to you: had I to follow the “sexual” part of me and then give vent my desire to have fun with guys every time I wanted it, but with the prospect, on the other hand, of living a life not easy (it is useless to turn around) as a bisexual single because I never wanted to “live” with a male? This would have forced me to remain basically alone, whether I chose to remain hidden or to expose my nature, causing great pain to my family. Or had I to give up a part, even important, of my sexuality, continuing to take refuge in masturbation, but having for the rest a serene life, (what then actually happened)?

I decided that sex wasn’t certainly the most important part of life and that in the end you cannot have everything and therefore I made my choice. Today I don’t regret it and this choice for the truth is very similar to that of a heterosexual man who marries and decides to be faithful, to renounce having sex with other women. Nevertheless I regret, that I didn’t have gay relationships in adolescence and youth. I wish I could say today: “I still like guys, but I’ve already done what I wanted to do, I have had my many relationships, and have experienced what was to be experienced and then I made the right choice.”

Unfortunately, things are not so and after so many years, now I feel a little in crisis because it seems to me that masturbation is not enough anymore, nor it’s enough to feel very excited when on public transport I see good guys; I would like to feel a male’s body with all my senses, let a gay penetrate me, and also enjoy him. But in my situation it’s not easy. I would not have moral inhibitions to go with male escorts, but in addition to the obvious fear of illness, however overwhelming, I would not have had time or opportunity to stay at the computer choosing this or that one because I obviously have a family and from whew I’m working I cannot go to these sites.

I could put an ad and then just wait, but in this case too, the thing should be handled by the home computer and I would have difficulties for the above reasons. And then, it’s really worth? Ah, had I too had the luck of several people who write to you, who can, by “normal” ways, get in touch with gay or bisexual people! I could make contacts with men who are in my own situation and only experience sex stories, but my wife probably would not forgive me and I do not know if I would do it. And for the truth I do not know how much I can enjoy having sex with men of my age: I still like teenagers but at my age it’s ridiculous to think that you can find someone willing to have sex with one of over 40, moreover passive, if not for money. Besides, I’m no longer as handsome as when I was young because with growing age I got a little belly. Of course, a thirty-year-old man would theoretically have more experience and know how to make me enjoy.

I didn’t said anything yet to my wife, I don’t feel like it yet, I don’t know if she would understand. maybe in the coming months I will do it, perhaps just to get rid of such a weight and maybe this could make our relationship even better, because she would understand that I am honest. Lately, I’ve given her some signal, because during sexual intercourses I asked her to penetrate me with phallic objects. At first she hesitated, but then she said to me, “Because I love you, if you like it, I’ll do” and then she asked me if I like males but I did not have the courage to say it and indeed I told her that if a man wants to feel pleasure in that way it’s not an index of homosexuality. She told me something I was happy about, that is if I had sex (and I suppose, sporadically) with a male, it would be less harming than if I had sex with a woman for the simple reason that I would go looking for a kind of pleasure that she could not give me. But soon after that she started crying and I felt my heart wounded!

Project, what do you suggest to face my situation more serenely? I would like to have your reply. Lastly, I would like to send positive messages. I hope my experience will be useful to the young guys who are now living the same things I have experienced, I hope they reflect before acting to avoid my own mistakes, putting away any hesitation in experiencing gay relationships if they feel they want to do it, and putting also away every external conditionings (which, contrary to what people think, still today are common among the guys, although in very different manners according to the context). Even today, even for those who live in the little towns, thanks to the internet there are more ways to get to know each other and compare their anxieties. And then I also think of my children, both boys: I think that what I’ve been and still I’m through is not useless because, when the time will be right, I will be able to educate them correctly about affectivity and sexuality. For charity, I will not encourage them to be gay, rather I will explain to them that gay life is tough, but I will tell them that their dad has no problem if they want to experience gay, sexual or sentimental relationships. And then they will decide what is best for them.

I wish you all the best.

P.S .: I cannot use chats and the like, I’m ignorant of the matter and on the other hand in my situation I would not even have the chance; so please give me an e-mail reply; if you think it appropriate, you can also post this mail and your answer.

What follows is my answer.

Hi, I go straight to the point. What you write does not have much of gay, rather it is a mentality far removed from that of most gays, I can tell you better, for you it is important to experience a kind of sexuality, not to build a love story with a guy. For you there is only one of the two components of homosexuality, that is, the typically sexual one, and it lacks the affective one and you tend to read gay sexuality as a set of sexual practices that are not even the majoritarian in the gay world (penetration) and are a vague transposition in a homosexual key of a typically heterosexual sexuality.

Experimentation of sexuality has nothing to do with sexuality, it is an experiment not an act of love and on the other hand you say and underline in any way that you do not believe in love stories between two men, which for a gay guy is absolutely essential. A married man gratified by heterosexuality, having a relationship with a guy or wanting to have a relationship with a guy is not a gay but a heterosexual who goes or wants to go with the guys but will in all likelihood transpose into a homosexual relationship things that with the gay world have little to do. In the heterosexual dimension, sexuality is inevitably with fixed roles, in the homosexual dimension the existence of roles doesn’t even make sense, despite what people believe, there is a principle of substantial equality, it is the sexuality of similarity and not of complementarity.

A gay guy falls in love with another guy (even heterosexual) and doesn’t fall in love because he wants to experience some sexual practice with him, but because for that guy he feels love and tenderness. I would like to clarify one thing, according to the common language a man is homosexual if and only if he has sexual intercourses with another man but this does not make sense, on the contrary it happens often that guys not yet openly gay fall in love with guys with whom they could never have sexual intercourses. A gay guy may regret a love story ended badly but not the lost opportunity of having sex with a guy.

A gay falls in love with a guy and then sees him sexually, masturbates thinking about that guy, wants him but wants him as a person, because it must be just that boy and not another one, he does not want him because he’s a guy but because he is just that guy. A gay would not think of going to search for an escort to try a sexual contact or put ads for sexual purposes, could even put ads but dreaming of doing almost miraculously in certain environments the encounter he had dreamed of all his life, that is to find there the guy who really loves him and that will be his boyfriend steadily.

A gay guy does not dream of gay sexual intercourses but of a love story with a guy and when he is in love is brought to do anything for his boyfriend. I have seen authentically heroic gestures, incredible courage and abnegation manifestations of gay guys in love for the good of the guy they love. A gay guy in love, for the guy he loves, is capable of giving up everything because he realizes that the relationship he has created, if real, is able to change his life 100%. But you tell me, in any case I still feel the strong impetus to try a gay sexuality. Given that you cannot build any serious affective affair with a gay guy, you will find only guys or men who, like you, just want to try or continue to experience sexual intercourses, if you allow me, this is the anteroom of a deep frustration. I don’t say it for moralism but because I have seen these things a lot of times.

A forty-year-old guy seriously looking for an affective relationship with a man can also find answers worthy of being taken into consideration. But when I saw married men go looking for “just” homosexual experiences to say that they experienced it as wall, inevitably, a few months later, I saw the consequences in terms of frustration and sometimes of sexual dependence. I add another thing that seems to me to be absolutely fundamental, and it is the relationship of a married man with his wife, especially in families with children. If I try to think about how a woman can feel when she understands to have a husband looking for sex out of the house and with a man, I get shivered. You are destroying your wife’s life in this way, and moreover when she made her choice she was not aware of what really you had in mind. Let’s not talk about the kids. I have seen great children who have accepted that the father was gay and that he lived with another man but in a relationship that nevertheless appeared in the eyes of the children (because it really was) a true love affair, but of course those children would not accept that the father wanted try to prove gay sexuality.

When you married you didn’t speak clearly to your wife, until now even if you didn’t really allow her to understand who you are, however, you have considered that your relationship should not be crushed by different sex fantasies (hetero or gay) but if you’re looking for sex from a man, your wife would feel betrayed and no less than if you were looking for sex from a woman. I would strongly disagree with your invitation to the guys to “experience gay intercourses.” It is good not to be “afraid of external conditioning” if it is to build true gay love stories but to push people to experience gay sexuality without an affective basis means just not having the pale idea of what gay life really is. I apologize for my perhaps too much determined way to deal with the problem, but I have to clarify and point out that what you consider gay are the typical gay fantasies of a heterosexual man, that of gay only have the appearance.

I add here below the answer to my email.

Thank you so much for the wonderful answer, it has been very helpful, you are really a nice person. The perception of me as bisexual or gay or otherwise attracted to males stemmed from the fact that my free sexuality (masturbation) has always been addressed to guys and still excites me to see beautiful males. If things are different then ok. In the meantime (and I hope I did well) I took courage and I told my wife everything! In confirmation of what you say, she felt betrayed because I did not tell her everything before marrying and maybe she would have accepted me the same but in a conscious way: she said practically the same thing you said to confirm that she is definitely a person better than me. But better late than never and also now I know, above all thanks to you, that I must not betray her for any reason in the world because I love her immensely and now more than ever I need her love and she needs mine.

I hope my wife will be able to metabolize the suffering that I created her, she who simply dreams of a normal life with a normal man, thanks to the fact that she knows that now I would never betray her and that I need her. Paradoxically, however, I feel better, because I have freed myself of a burden that I have worn for too many years and because now I know I can masturbate without hiding from her who is willing, out of love, to participate in these fantasies of mine and also accepted more serenely to practice anal penetration for me. Yesterday, after I told her, every time I approached her there was an erection and it seems to me that couple sexuality can gain, I feel even more satisfied: always a compromise solution but less hypocritical and freer.

Excuse me if I said that guys have to experience gay relationships, I was wrong to write and in fact if you read the part dedicated to my children, I spoke, more correctly, to experience gay relationships both sexually and sentimentally, if they feel they want to do such things. I just wanted to say, in fact, that if a guy in adolescence feels he wants to have a gay relationship in his sexual and sentimental fullness, he can do it without hesitation, so as not to find himself living in regret, like me.

Feel free to publish this e-mail, if you think it appropriate, I’d like to read your opinion and also those of the guys of the forum, even with reference to developments with my wife. You’re a big, Bye.

Here below my answer.

Your mail makes me immensely pleased, because you did what had to be done, that is, you spoke clearly with your wife. Sure she felt betrayed for not having known everything before, but at least now she can have the certainty of having an authentic relationship with her husband, in which there are not things that are not said. Of course you feel better! You did what you had to do. See, the relationship with your wife, just from what you write, has all the characteristics of a true emotional relationship, in which there is sex, of course, but there is also a community of life and a cooperation to build something together. Being accepted by his own wife even after such an admission is a sign that the relationship is very strong.

You can also have your fantasies about guys but loving a person is a different thing. To love means to live together, to build together, to have a common world, in two, to be a couple and no longer to two individuals.
A hug! And good luck!

I report below the answer I received.

Dear Project, I’m always “the man married who experiences gay fantasies”. Excuse me if I write to you again, I’m far from taking advantage of your immense availability. But I read the discussion that followed on my case with great interest. I would have liked to register on the forum and answer the numerous comments, but my wife wouldn’t have approved.

I was pleased about the interest, but things have been said about the relationship of love with my wife that I didn’t like too much: I’m good to be considered a repressed gay or a schizophrenic bisexual (yes, I always knew that my behavior is not 100% normal and in my life I never felt heterosexual, I felt gay at times, before getting to know my wife, bisexual almost always), but it hurts me when one calls into question my deep love (both feeling and sex) for my wife. You can understand that for me it would be terrifying: it means that for all these years of marriage with my wife I only pretended to love her first of all if front of myself and unknowingly, even though I am deeply convinced of loving her in the highest sense of the term and above all of feeling sexual fulfillment: if I think about it, I feel like crying!
But I wanted to tell you that you’re really great and do you know why? I went to read a post of March 31, 2010 entitled “Gay Sexuality and Transgression”. I quote here two passages:

” It sometimes happens that some guys who have a typically heterosexual and fully satisfying emotional and sexual couple life don’t ever masturbate thinking of a girl but they do it thinking exclusively of guys with whom they don’t feel emotionally involved, but their sexual fantasies are concentrated only on a particular sexual behavior, considered very transgressive. In such situations, the classic principle of free sexuality, according to which sexual orientation emerges through the masturbation (free sexuality) and not through the couple sexuality, cannot be applied precisely because in these situations masturbation is not really free and the fact of masturbating with transgressive gay fantasies (or considered such) indicates that masturbation is experienced not as sexuality but as an act of rebellion against taboos. The more transgressive the fantasies that accompany masturbation are the greater is the gratification that is obtained by overcoming the taboo. I mean that for these guys masturbation is not really a sexual experience but an act of self-assertion as a person who got rid of taboos. This mechanism of overcoming taboos through transgressive masturbation can in some cases evolve into forms of transgressive couple sexuality.”

“It is evident that in this case masturbation is not at all a form of free sexuality and, I would say, it is not even a form of true sexuality. It often happens that the “transgressive” masturbation of a guy who is really a heterosexual accompanies the temptation to put into practice masturbation fantasies. It should be noted that in these cases the affective dimension is totally lacking and the problem is reduced to bringing the overcoming of taboos from the masturbatory dimension, that appears reductive, to a far more “transgressive” dimension of couple sexuality. I emphasize that the guys who have a “transgressive” gay masturbation generally have a rather distorted view of gay sexuality that for them, even if they say otherwise, is basically something anomalous that becomes interesting precisely because “transgressive”, the idea of gay sexuality and affectivity as normal for these guys is difficult to accept, in a sense, if they considered gay sexuality normal, it would lose all attraction for them. It must be said that these guys in the vast majority have never fallen in love with a guy and consider at least unnatural that two guys can live a deep and mutual love. All this with being gay has clearly nothing to do.”

In the aforementioned post you describe exactly how my situation is after I met my wife, except, in my opinion, that I’m not exactly hetero. You wrote this thing 3 months before I told you my experience! So to insist on the theory that is the free sexuality, without other specifications, that determines the true sexual orientation seems to me too simplifying in my case. I would like to say that, without having read the post above (I swear it, before anyone doubts it) after my coming out with my wife, as I said, we are having sex more “transgressively” (I admit, in this period I cannot help but be penetrated by her almost every night, I’m sexually happy, also because pleasure comes to me not only from the act itself, but also from the fact that it is exactly my wife who makes it to me and such a thought makes me feel like in the early days of marriage). Not only this, but the things I learned from your site have made me better understand the gay reality as something less transgressive and coincidentally, at least for the moment, I don’t masturbate with certain fantasies!

I realize that claiming to describe my sexual and affective life in 3 pages was a mistake, because I cannot make people understand all the nuances, but I couldn’t bore you by focusing on the details. After all, my goal was not to know what I’m (I am a person very self-interested: I’ve been forming a precise idea of myself for a few years now), but to have an advice on the best way to live my situation and you gave me that advice very well, Project: you made me understand that looking for occasional intercourse even on payment would be detrimental, first of all for me, even before than for my family. Of course, before knowing my wife I thought almost exclusively of guys in masturbation but it was almost always anaffective masturbation: even when I was thinking about specific guys (for example high school or college mates) I always thought of them as sexual objects. I almost never felt in love with guys, while in happened with girls (with a lot of sexual desires that anyway only for very short periods accompanied my masturbation fantasies: Jek is right, I’m not normal).

With my wife I was engaged 3 years and they were beautiful years like the first years after marriage, when we were sexually very active and not only because upstream there was a deep love relationship. In those 3 years I should have realized if something was wrong and I should have given everything up, instead everything was fine: the other night I remembered with my wife that it was enough for me to hear her voice on the phone to get an erection! Not that I stopped masturbating thinking about homosexual relationships, but my sexual fantasies oriented themselves exclusively to imaginary transgressive relationships, no longer thinking about specific guys. After all, the emotional part of love for my wife has never failed: she is the most beautiful thing that has happened to me in life and I want to scream at all! The sexual interest has waned, starting from the birth of the first child, but it is a normal thing in couples (isn’t it true, Barbara?). I would not charge it to my being bisexual or if you prefer repressed gay, if anything it’s the other way around. Those who know the life of a couple know that at a certain point it is no longer enough to see the partner naked to get excited, also because the body is not as beautiful as it once was, but it is necessary to know how to touch, how to caress, etc. in a crescendo of new sexual stimuli that for those who have a very high libido like me can mean experiencing “more” transgressive “games”. This needs time, dedication and with two children, the work, the house, I assure you that it is not easy. That’s why masturbation for me is not the only form of sexuality due to the fact that I don’t like that expressed with my wife, but the valve to vent my own instincts in a simple way, without too much effort and intellectual or sentimental involvement. What I wanted to say then is that for years I have convinced myself that I was bisexual and I believe that the discussion on the forum does nothing but confirm it, but I don’t place too much emphasis on the dissociation between heterosexual affectivity and gay sexuality, because also from a sexual point of view the hetero side is satisfying for me and it is so much more because at the base there is a deep emotional bond! (and, Project, you took it immediately).

I would not then unleash your ethical reactions (don’t be too bad with me), but I would say that I have always been happy to be bisexual: it is nice to be able to love one’s own female partner and feel sexually satisfied with her and at the same time feel excited to see beautiful guys on the street and then if I can share this excitement with the woman of my life it is even more beautiful! It is obvious that a bisexual who places the “traditional” family at the top of the scale of his values should at some point make a choice: hence my regret for not having fully lived the homo part when I could. I thank you all, no one excluded and I would really like to embrace you not only virtually, even that “bad guy” of Publisher, whose analyzes have been very useful to understand me even better. A special thanks, as well as to Project, also to Barbara, who was able to express in a sublime way my mood and of which I share every single word. Congratulations to Telemaco for his sensitivity: it is a quality that is always a pleasure to find in guys his age and I wish him to find the person who can make him happy because he deserves it. Congratulations also to Aster, who from his blog appears to be a sweet boy, cultured and also cute: in my next masturbation fantasies I’ll get excited thinking of him who says “ugly typical repressed fennel!”. Joking aside, he is a smart guy and not just for the coming out story (as a parent I hope things with his father are settled: for a father to feel close to his son who “cheated” him has not price). Indeed, as far as I’m concerned, these coming out stories have a bit fed up even for controversies. Rather, Aster, let us dream and tell us your love story with your boyfriend (sentimentally eh, I better specify it before you start to think that I’m a pervert). I regret not being able to participate actively in the forum, but maybe I will follow you and who knows, in a few years, when my eldest will be in age, I hope you can enjoy reading what I have to say about education on sexual and sentimental orientation. I hope I will be a good father, and this thanks to my “experience” and thanks to you. Best wishes.



If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-gay-fantasies-of-a-married-man


Hetero-gay relationship

In past times, heterosexual men of high social class, strongly frustrated in their heterosexual sexuality because of arranged marriages, were led to find an outlet for their sexuality in sexual adventures with prostitutes, or in true ancillary loves, socially denied but substantially tolerated because apparently they didn’t undermine the institution of marriage.

The heterosexuality of young people of high social rank was often frustrated by marriages in which the wife was objectively socially superior to her husband, who ended up orbiting her family and depending on her income and property. Basically a heterosexual man could feel himself as an object bought from his wife’s family. The tendency to escape from the grip of marriage was sometimes noticeable but there were certainly inhibitory restraints represented by religion and the feelings of guilt in sexual matters inspired by the religion itself, as well as by the fact that the crisis of a marriage could weigh negatively on the family budgets of the husband. Clearly, in these situations, the breakup of marriage, seen objectively as a real trap, in which one had entered in total inexperience and on the basis of family pressures, could find a tolerable alternative in having a lover.

Looking for a lover, also of a high social level, would have led to the possibility of recreating relationships of dependence substantially similar to those already tried in the marriage and moreover the bonds would have been difficult to dissimulate due to the fact that wife and lover were from the same environment, it would be much easier to find a lover of low social level, whose loyalty would have been guaranteed by his own need for money, here too the logic of “buying the love” returns, but it is not brutal prostitution but something much more complex in which noble feelings also intervened, such as the tendency to protect the poor girl and to emancipate her from the risks of true prostitution, far more brutal.

Love stories of this kind have been common at the end of the eighteenth and in the early nineteenth century and have fueled so much literature. If the heterosexual man of high society meets a poor but faithful girl who is objectively in love with him, the relationship can become stable and also very gratifying, it being understood that it could never be transformed into marriage because of the enormous difference in social level. The story of Cinderella represents, in a very ennobled form, a relationship of love between a poor girl and her noble and rich lover. It should be emphasized that the relationships of hetero men with their lovers also had a not negligible component of power, the difference of social class played a fundamental role and was the basis of a completely dissymmetrical relationship: the girl was totally dependent on lover not only on an economic level but also on a cultural level, she was generally illiterate, while her lover was a man who had received a refined education and frequented high society circles. At the time, the condition of women of low social level, was of clear subordination and, in general, a poor girl who was aware of being courted by a wealthy gentleman, was very careful not to claim an impossible parity. On this basis the relationships between a rich heterosexual man and his lover could last for years and be basically gratifying for both.

It also happened that sometimes the escapes from marriage towards loves with other women of low social class were far from gratifying for the girl’s venality, for her infidelity and, more rarely, for her reluctance to accept a relationship that however would have left her in a state of submission. In such situations, a rich heterosexual man ended up mixing a resentment towards his wife with a more general resentment towards the female universe, perceived as dominant and venal at all levels and felt himself for a verse dominated by his wife and for the another conditioned and almost blackmailed by the lover. In these cases, and not infrequently, it happened that rich heterosexual men developed important sympathies not towards girls but towards guys of lower social status: grooms, servants, but also peasants and economically independent workers.

Homosexual prostitution existed even then, but it was much more limited than heterosexual one; “heterosexual” men who fled from the female world, in general, didn’t turn to male prostitution but tended to build stable relationships with some guys, similar to those that, under more favorable conditions, would have built with poor girls. The risks for the partner of the highest social level, in this type of relationship, consisted essentially in the possibility of blackmail from the partner of the lower social level, while the risks for the partner of the lower social level consisted in the possibility of being faced with a vulgar prostitution relationship disguised as a long-term loving relationship.

In the “Maurice” of Forster, the wealthy bourgeois Maurice tends to show his deep respect for the gamekeeper Scudder, not only never remarks the social difference that separates him from Scudder, as would a rich heterosexual guy looking for a hetero-gay relationship but he tends to build up its relationship with Scudder from the first moment on a level of genuine equality, which is a sign of a true gay-gay relationship. Maurice, however, initially expresses the same fears of blackmail that would have a rich heterosexual bourgeois in search of a hetero-gay relationship. To make Scudder understand that he was in love with him as a true gay, Maurice must show Scudder his deep emotional interest, beyond the merely sexual interest. When Maurice fears that Scudder is about to emigrate, he doesn’t limit himself to saying goodbye, giving him some money and that’s it, as a rich bourgeois implied in a hetero-gay relationship would have done, convinced that once Scudder had left, it would not have been difficult to find a substitute; Maurice is genuinely upset by the idea of losing Scudder, which in his eyes is not replaceable, and looks for him anxiously, until he finds him again so as not to leave him anymore.

I emphasize one fundamental thing: from the point of view of the rich heterosexual man who builds an extra-matrimonial relationship, a heterosexual relationship and a homosexual one are very different things, in a heterosexual relationship heterosexual man finds a gratification that can be very deep, accompanied by a sense of total freedom and emotional and sexual reciprocity, in other words, a heterosexual man can fall in love with the poor girl, while nothing similar can happen in a story with a guy, who would always be seen as the “substitute for a woman” not worthy to particular attention. Having clarified the point of view of the rich hetero man in the hetero-gay relationship, we try to understand who the guys were to whom these men addressed. First of all, they were not male prostitutes able to go indifferently for money with both men and women, they were, in most cases, homosexual guys, i.e. guys who fell in love both sexually and emotionally with guys or men and who dreamed of a stable relationship.

I emphasize that in the lower social environments, male prostitution was somehow accepted and justified on the basis of an economic necessity, while homosexuality was in fact tacitly tolerated but was not socially accepted. The cohabitation of two men was a fact deemed unacceptable, precisely because homosexuality was never considered as a normal and possible condition of life. In such circumstances, homosexual guys were extremely sensitive to any signal, coming from other guys, that had let some element of homosexuality shine through.

The manifetations of availability shown by some men of high social class, tired of their marriage and of the female world in general, made gay guys of lower social class believe that finally they had found another homosexual guy in love with them, and in this way gay guys were urged to show in turn availability.

It is in this climate that the so-called hetero-gay relations developed, on the one hand a rich heterosexual in a moment of rebellion towards the female world, who sought the “substitute of a girl” to vent its sexuality and exercise its sense of domination , and on the other a poor gay guy who dreamed of finding another gay guy with whom to create a stable relationship. These relationships, the so-called hetero-gay relationships, were totally modeled on hetero sexuality and considered the virile role as an exclusive prerogative of the dominant male, i.e. to the hetero male. By virile role we mean the role of one who is active in anal penetration and lends one’s own sex to the others attentions in the oral intercourse. Obviously, the gays were assigned the complementary female roles.

Hetero-gay relationships have been a frequent reality until the 1960s of the twentieth century and beyond. In hetero-gay relationships, roles are fixed: hetero male is active and gay is passive. But I add another observation, in this conception of sexuality sexual intercourse is aimed at anal penetration that appears as the most important and conclusive element of the intercourse, the rest is only seen as a preparation. It is precisely for this reason that, even today, it is used to speak of “complete homosexual intercourse” to indicate a relationship that also includes anal penetration, but it is a way of saying derived from the hetero world. Normally as we have seen, the dominant male in a hetero-gay relationship was not only dominant from the sexual point of view but also from the social point of view, what underlined the radical dissymmetry of the relationship, often experienced by both parties as a domain/submission relationship. These aspects of power legitimated even more in the eyes of heterosexual dominating males sexual relationships with a gay guy.

It should be kept in mind that when heterosexual high-class males married exclusively for patrimonial and caste reasons with women not chosen by them and lived a frustrating marriage sexuality, relationships with prostitutes allowed them to forget their frustrations and to vent their desire of power and domination, sometimes more than of sex. The sense of superiority and power manifested itself as well as through particular sexual practices, through money. Leaving money on the bedside table “pour vos beaux yeux!”, as it was usual to say, was a very strong way of marking social difference and therefore of avoiding to get truly involved with the partner. Mechanisms of the same kind are also found in hetero-gay relationships in which normally the dominant male compensated the gay for his passive role with money or other gifts, thus remarking the role of subordination of the gay.

Hetero-gay relationships and feminization of the gay

Hetero-gay relationships, as lived in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, precisely because in them the gay appeared to the dominant hetero male as the “substitute of a woman”, induced the gay guy too, who in all probability would have preferred an equal relationship, to take on a more markedly feminine role, repressing his instincts that would have led him to claim parity at least on the sexual level. The interest of hetero for the penis of the gay was normally non-existent and the idea that the gay could experience a form of pleasure not reducible to the passive role was not taken into consideration at all, ejaculation was the prerogative only of the hetero partner, the gay one had to limit himself to reach orgasm through masturbation, but separately and out of sight of his partner, who didn’t like having to remember that he had had a sexual intercourse with a guy and not with a girl.

For this reason the male characteristics of the gay guy had to be minimized or had to disappear, gay guys were encouraged not to cut their hair and to dress in vaguely feminine, to use perfumes or feminine underwear, but were also asked to hide their penis between the thighs so as not to show it to the partner and to shave the pubis; in the intimacy the gay guy was called with female nicknames analogous to those that would be used for a prostitute. The gay guy ended up convincing himself that in order not to lose his mate it was essential to please him as much as possible and was urged, for this, to assume languid attitudes, to hide his desires and, in essence, to “consciously act” a female role.

The seduction in the hetero-gay relationship

To get a concrete idea of the techniques of seduction through which a wealthy heterosexual man was able to obtain the availability of a gay guy of low social status, we can refer to the ways of doing Oscar Wilde. I don’t aim in the slightest to face the question concerning the homosexuality of Wilde, who was married anyway and had children, his relationships with the guys, however, have several characteristics of the classic hetero-gay relationships.

As it turned out during the trial, Wilde had an intimate friendship with a certain Wood, an eighteen-year-old master singer, whom Wilde invited to dinner and to whom he lent money, had a connection with a young shop assistant to whom he donated 200 francs, a huge amount of money, he payed tailor’s clothes for a young wanderer, a certain Alphonse Conwell, and stayed with him one night in Brighton. Wilde was a friend of a certain Taylor, a getter of guys, known to the police, had cohabited in Paris with the young Atkins, had dined in a luxury hotel with the domestic Scott and had given him as a present a silver cigarette case. The list could go on, I limit myself to referring to “Gay and History”, Gay Project Library: “The Oscar Wilde Trial”, in which the reader can find many useful details to illustrate the situation.

It could be argued, and not without reason, that Wilde’s homosexual stories are much closer to simple prostitution affairs than to the classic hetero-gay relationships and that the only truly important story of Wilde was that with Lord Alfred Douglas, that cannot certainly be interpreted in the light of the hetero-gay model, because of the social rank of Douglas, certainly not inferior to that of Wilde, but the reference to Wilde serves at least to get an idea of the means of seduction typical of hetero-gay relationships, where lacked the fee in money for the sexual performance, typical of prostitution, and everything was based on the fact that the young man who accompanies Wilde could taste the life of high society, from which otherwise he would have been completely excluded. The trips on luxury trains, the dinners in important hotels, and the entrances in exclusive environments were the real instruments of seduction of this type of relationship. In the case of Wilde they were relationships without any affective component, with the only exception, perhaps, of Alfred Douglas, and they were too numerous and superficial to have a minimum of continuity.

Raffalovich in the Annals of Unisexuality repeatedly and strongly accuses John Addigton Symonds of having used his prestige and his money to seduce some young people but from reading the diaries of Symonds things appear far from such hypothesis . Symonds, although he was also married, like Wilde, and had two daughters, was nevertheless deeply homosexual, he certainly suffered the charm of the guys of the popular classes, not only gay but also heterosexual, but he built relationships with them trending to equality, what is typical of gays, he didn’t deny the male identity of those boys, who was indeed the first cause of his interest and didn’t even deny their heterosexuality, when they were heterosexual, and especially really fell in love with them, wrote poignant poems for them and built with them friendships destined to last. With all due respect to Raffalovich, Symonds’ love stories were classic stories of gay falling in love, not always directed towards gay guys and with a very strong affective component.

Evolution of hetero-gay relationships

Hetero-gay relationships, as we have reconstructed them, represent a reality that is now outdated. In the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, for a heterosexual frustrated in his heterosexual relationships, it was certainly not easy to find a gay guy available, and when this happened, the relationship had, for this reason, its intrinsic stability. Wilde’s case is not significant because his behavior was strongly eccentric and not aligned with the behavior of the average married man in search of guys.

With the post-1968 sexual liberation and especially with the arrival of the Internet, the situation has rapidly changed and the absence of strong emotional relationships, combined with the ease of finding available partners has led to the substantial instability of hetero-gay relationships, which however have not slipped into prostitution, because most of the relationships built via the internet don’t involve donations of money, the means of seduction typical of the hetero-gay relationships have remained the same, because the offer to cruise together or spend a week in a luxury hotel abroad is generally not intended as a fee for sexual services.

In essence, long-term hetero-gay relationships have become a rarity and the ease of partner change now dominates the scene. To give some examples of the evolution of hetero-gay relationships, which involve married men, in the 21st century, I will refer to an interesting article in “LGBTQ Nation” of March 20, 2016, entitled “Straight men discussing their secret sexual relationships with other men “. The article presents three interviews with heterosexual-bisexuals obtained under guarantee of anonymity. I report those interviews below. I state, however, that, as it is obvious from the context, the terms heterosexual and bisexual are used with slightly different meanings from those adopted by Gay Project.

1) Rob

Rob (not his real name) is 46-years-old. He lives in San Jose, CA and has been married to his wife for 12 years. He identifies as “straight with bisexual tendencies” and has been hooking up with other guys on the down low since he was 19.

“Hooking up with other men, to me, is a non-complicated way of releasing sexual steam,” he explains. “It’s simply a physical release with no pressure.”

Rob prefers getting together with other married men in secret, as opposed to single or openly gay men. He finds most of the guys on dating sites.

“I seek out other married men for the simple fact that they are in the same boat as me, and hopefully can relate to what I am looking for,” he says. “I do not want to jeopardize my marriage. Another married man can understand that. Other married men are not willing to take as many risks.”

The primary risk being, Rob says, “getting strong emotions or falling in love. I wouldn’t want to become the object of another man’s desire. I do find some men attractive, but for me it’s just sexual. I don’t feel attracted to men in a loving way at all.”

Currently, there are two guys Rob sees on a regular basis.

“One is divorced, the other is a widower and semi-retired,” he explains. “They both live alone, and are therefore able to host our get together.” But, he is careful to add, “there is no love involved.”

“My wife is not aware,” Rob admits. “I don’t feel guilty doing what I do. However, I would feel bad if she found out. She would be very upset and consider it cheating. It concerns me very much, since I do not want a divorce.”

2) Tony

Tony (not his real name) is 32-years-old. A divorcee, he lives in New York City and just recently began identifying as bisexual, though he’s only out to a small handful of people. He has a casual girlfriend as well as a few regular “buddies” who he will occasionally meet for sex.

“The first time I messed around with a guy I was 21,” he says. “He was an older married guy who I met on a gay website. My challenge is that New York City is a very feminine gay city, and that’s not my type. I’m only into guys who are DL, not being noticed as gay. [DL = Down-low an African American slang term that typically refers to a subculture of black men who usually identify as heterosexual, but who have sex with men; some avoid sharing this information even if they have female sexual partner(s) married or single.] That’s my protocol. When I find someone who’s a match I keep him as a regular.”

Tony says he meets most of his hookups on dating apps or on dating sites, and he will often develop close friendships with them afterwards. He says he’s not “paranoid” about people knowing what he does, but he’s still not 100 percent comfortable with it either.

“I would be afraid of telling someone I had a relationship with a man,” he admits, adding that maybe someday he’ll feel differently. Until then, however, “I need to make sure the guy meets my criteria.”

“My ex-wife didn’t know what I did,” Tony says. “The women I’ve dated lately, though, know. They know how I am and still think I’m interesting and attractive regardless. At this point of my life, I don’t feel like living in lies anymore.”

3) Andrew

Andrew (not his real name) is 33-years-old and lives near New Orleans, LA. He identifies as totally straight and has been married to his wife since he was 21. He had his first gay experience about ten years ago.

“I had been married for two years and was feeling that I wanted to try something different,” he says. “I’ve messed around with about a dozen guys since then. It isn’t often, usually when it feels like my marriage is in a slump or getting boring. It actually invigorates me.”

Like both Rob and Tony, he finds most of the guys he hooks up with online and tends to gravitate towards others who are on the down low.
“I prefer men on the DL,” Andrew explains. “I find I have more in common and it is easier to make a connection.”

“If my wife found out she would leave me,” Andrew says. “She is very traditional and religious and does not believe in homosexuality. I love her and wish that we could have some sort of open relationship, but she would never go for it.”

He continues: “Hooking up with other guys is not something that I am proud of. I wish that I didn’t have the urge or want to do it, but there is something about being with another guy that reignites me. After being with another guy I find that I am more loving and happy at home. It adds life to me.”

Sexual behavior and perception of sexual Orientation

Jane Ward is an Associate Professor and Vice Chair of the Department of Gender and Sexuality Studies, as well as the LGBIT Studies Program Chair, at the University of California, Riverside. She is also the author of the bestselling book Not Gay: Sex Between Straight White Men.

“We can learn a lot about sexual fluidity and diversity from men on the down low,” Ward tells Queerty. “Some men on the DL identify as bisexual but are not public about their sex with men. Others are completely straight-identified and view their sex with men as an erotic hobby, so to speak. For them, it’s an occasional means of getting off, but it’s not something that feels significant enough to influence how they understand their sexual orientation.”

Ward continues: “The point here is that people can engage in the same sexual activity but make meaning of it in very different ways. It’s that process of making meaning that is what ultimately matters when it comes to people’s sexual identifications. Unlike animals, humans have the capacity to reflect on our sex practices and what they mean about who we are and who we want to be.”
I totally agree with Jane Ward.

Another significant example of the value of subjective judgment on behaviors, beyond their objectivity, can be found in the analysis of the relationship between gay sex and sexual play, in the chapter dedicated to gay sexuality.

Let’s stop now to analyze the three interviews. Married men (or who have been married and still have female partners) have sexual relationships with other men. The common element is the lack of awareness of wives or female companions, with the exception of Andrew, who says he no longer wants to live in lies. In all three cases, the interviewees don’t consider the homosexual relationship as an alternative to the marriage, which they don’t want to undermine, but only as a sexual diversion, perhaps fostered by friendship with married people who “are in the same boat”, or even as an incentive to rekindle heterosexual interest when this tends to weaken. It clearly emerges that the married life of these men is not gratifying, that the dialogue with the wives doesn’t exist, but that despite all the hetero relationship has its stability mainly due to the social environment, as can be deduced from the fact that these men tend to keep secret their homosexual acquaintances and to maintain a formal matrimonial relationship even when the couple lacks communication on fundamental aspects of sexuality.

It is clear that these men are interested in maintaining the marriage and preserve heterosexuality, they tend to stress that they don’t want in any way to become the object of sexual desire of other men and that they don’t consider their sexual encounters with other men as encounters of love, and they even consider the hypothesis of falling in love with a man as the greatest risk of their homosexual relationships, a risk that must be avoided carefully.

These men, despite their homosexual relationships, don’t perceive themselves at all as gays, rather they tend not to create relationships with gay singles or with declared gays but to stay with other married men; they admit at most a bisexual tendency, but only on a sexual level. In the chapter on gay sexuality we will talk extensively of curious heterosexuals, a category in which married men who perceive themselves as hetero and have homosexual relationships can be included. As we will see, this is a very large group.

Birth of pornography

It is commonly believed that pornography has always existed and has always been widely used, as happens today, but things are completely different.

At the end of the XIX century, Wilhelm von Gloeden, realized in Taormina (Sicily) a huge amount of photos, considered by many to be pornographic photos, They were actually nude photos, almost always male nude, even if there are female nudes, but there were also landscapes , photos of shepherds and farmers. The male nude was always represented in a Greek mythological frame and there is no picture of von Gloeden representing sexual intercourses or situations strongly connoted in the sexual sense. The photos of von Gloeden were certainly sought by homosexuals, but they were rare and precious material, always spread through very reserved channels.

Famous were also the male nude photos made in Rome by Wilhelm von Plüschow, also distributed confidentially among high-level homosexuals, as evidenced by a fragment of a letter by John Addington Symonds to Charles Edward Sayle:

“If you care for extremely artistic studies from the nude, done mostly in the open air, go & see my friend G. Plüschow 34 Via Sardegna. He has made an immense collection which he will be delighted to show you. Very truly yours. J A Symonds]” [Letter 1969 – John Addington Symonds, Letters, Wayne State University Press, 1969, vol. III. ]

Calling pornography the photos of Gloeden or Plüschow is obviously an exaggeration and in any case the spread of those photos was minimal. In the past, until the early ’70s of the XX century, the spread of pornographic photos, hetero or gay, was considered an outrage to modesty and was prosecuted by law, the photos were expensive and absolutely not easy to find, and were directed especially to bourgeois heterosexuals who lived, at the level of transgression, hetero-gay relationships with gay guys of popular extraction. In a reality of this kind, the so-called gay pornography was in fact addressed to heterosexual males and tended to emphasize the patterns of sexual behavior of the hetero-gay relationship. So, until the beginning of the ’70s the typical hetero-gay model was credited as the model of the homosexual relationship. That model, the only one sponsored by clandestine pornography and for this the only “official” one, ended up affirming itself and being considered by the gays themselves as their model of sexual behavior.

Since the late 60s of the 20th century, with the sexual liberation of ’68, gays began to have a minimum of visibility and, in some cases at least, as in university collectives, they had the opportunity to know and recognize each other, what was before completely impossible. Starting from the early 1970s gays began to abandon the old hetero-gay model of relationships, in which they were inevitably destined for the passive role, to finally live gay-gay relationships.

Up until the beginning of the ‘70s, many gay men lived unidirectional love relationships, often not even declared, towards straight guys who considered them exclusively friends, obviously without sexual contacts. For many gay guys, sexual relationships, I mean the ones exclusively sexual, continued to be dominated by hetero-gay model. In a first phase, currently not completely ended, the hetero-gay model, imposed by pornography, has continued to dominate the scene by importing the active-passive binomial in the gay-gay relationship. In this case, however, also the active role was played by a gay.

It should be remembered that until the beginning of the 1970s, there were no publications aimed at gays nor existed gay pornography. The first homosexual magazine in Italy, “Fuori!”, Appeared in 1971, and the circulation of homosexual magazines was however very low because the diffusion in bookstores or on newsstands discouraged buyers.

To understand how and when pornography, in Italy, comes to large distribution, it must be borne in mind that the magazine “Le Ore”, founded in 1953 as a magazine of cinema current affairs, distributed until 1967, from 1971 became a soft erotic magazine, with male genital organs covered and without explicit photos of sexual intercourses.

During the ’70s the Italian legislation on public morality became much more elastic and in 1977 “Le Ore” became a hard magazine. From the early 1980s, porn magazines have been be gradually supplanted by videotapes. The first gay porn magazine, “Gay Italy”, began publishing in 1983. “Babilonia” the most known Italian gay monthly magazine, with nude photos but never in bad taste, and with articles of interest for gays, began the publications in 1982 and continued until 2009.

Gay-gay relationships

In gay-gay relationships began to appear a novelty that marked a strong difference compared to the hetero-gay relationship: in the gay-gay relationship, although the categories of active and passive still existed, the roles were not fixed, or at least were not rigid, even if the anal penetration continued to be considered the true purpose of the relationship.

In recent years, the late twentieth and early twenty-first century, after the advent of the internet, for many gays the opportunity to come into contact with other gays has become a reality and this has encouraged a dialogue and a comparison among gays and has slowly but inexorably eroded the solidity of the gay sexuality model inherited from the old hetero-gay model. Chat interviews with gay guys of different ages suggest that, as we move towards younger age groups, gay-gay sexuality is understood and lived in a way less and less tied to old models. I would like to add another observation: sexuality on the hetero-gay model resists especially among guys who have been strongly influenced by pornography and who have not had the opportunity to compare their sexuality with that of other gay guys, while for the guys who have had a sex education freer and have been able to talk about their sexuality with other guys, the real sex life is in fact almost totally detached from the hetero-gay model and is tending towards a gay-gay model of sexuality based on the principle of equality.

I will now try to outline how young gays mean sexuality, let’s say gays under 30. For a gay, anal penetration is absolutely the sexual behavior most at risk for the transmission of HIV. This fact, associated with reasons of general hygienic character, pushes the younger gays not to consider the anal penetration a desirable sexual behavior. I note, incidentally, that in the masturbation fantasies of all the gay guys there is the idea of masturbating the partner and of performing oral sex on him or getting oral sex performed by him, while the fantasies regarding anal penetration are decidedly less common. The sexuality of younger gay guys (I am talking above all about undeclared guys and less tied to the world of gay clubs) tends therefore to be a sexuality that ignores anal penetration, which is often perceived as a reality imported from the hetero world and not spontaneously gay. In cases where penetration is practiced, the roles are not fixed or are not fixed in an absolute way, this is a sign, despite the permanence of penetration, of a parity or a trend towards parity within the couple.

Having said that, and with all the reservations of the case, I try to clarify the sense of equality within a gay-gay relationship.

A heterosexual couple is characterized by the complementarity of sexual roles that are anatomically and biologically defined, they are roles that substantially characterize that type of relationship. Heterosexuality means to love the different from oneself. A gay couple is characterized by the identity of the roles of the two partners. A gay guy falls in love with another guy, not because he considers him a substitute for a woman, but because he is a guy, that is, for his male identity.

The interest of a gay guy towards the penis of his partner is particularly strong and the sense of identity and almost personal fusion that is felt in sexual contact is linked to the fact that each of them knows perfectly the physiological responses of the other, because they are two guys.

Given these premises it is easy to understand that a relationship based on the concept of equality tends to be incompatible with the assumption of sexual roles and is absolutely incompatible with the assumption of fixed sexual roles. The sexuality of young gay couples tends to no longer be an imitation of pornography but to be realized through diluted sexual behaviors consisting of different elements mainly related to physical intimacy not immediately sexual and so-called cuddles:

1) Habit to mutual nudity, being naked together, hugging naked with naked and holding each other for several minutes.
2) To caress, kiss, exchange tenderness.
3) To touch each other intimately, without immediate sexual goals.
4) To postpone the phase of the orgasm.
5) To talk a lot while hugging the partner.
6) To prolong the cuddling also in the post-orgasmic phase, falling asleep one in the arms of the other.

As we easily understand, this gay-gay model of sexuality has now nothing to do with models inherited from pornography. In part, the most recent pornography is trying to adapt to the new emerging sexuality models, which however are not compatible with the classic standards of porn movies. Despite these attempts at adaptation, pornography in the classic sense of the term is slowly losing ground among gays to the full advantage of the spontaneity of sexual behavior.

I realize that the description I gave of the couple sexuality of young gay couples, in particular formed by undeclared guys, may appear dogmatic and pretentious. Talking about a “principle of equality” in gay couple sexuality might seem like an attempt to surreptitiously introducing rules that are completely meaningless. I have been reminded several times that in couple relationships everything can happen and depends on what you want and on the people you know, in this sense, the more you get rid of categories and schemes the closer you are to reality. On this I can only agree, but I must stress that the “principle of equality” is not an invention of the one who wrote these pages but is the summary of what has emerged from hundreds of mails and hundreds of hours of interview in the course of several years. Obviously, the results certainly have a value limited to what is found by the observation point of Gay Project and are not necessarily generalizable, but they have nevertheless a very serious objective basis.

If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-hetero-gay-and-gay-gay-models-of-sexuality



Hello everyone, I need some advice … I am 34 years old, I’ve been married for five years and I’ve been with her for about 15 years. Fortunately, to date without children even if recently we decided to put one in the train! Since I was very young I have always had a totally straight life, the first experiences in adolescence and then the meeting with the woman I chose as a life partner and I have never betrayed with any other woman; nevertheless, I have always understood and appreciated the beauty of the female body, as well as of the masculine one, without ever thinking of being able to desire it physically (and mentally). In the years of university, being distant from my girlfriend and despite living a heterosexual life with her, I often did some simple skype sessions with guys of my age, simple and fast experience! More a physical need than anything else, so I have always interpreted it! About two years ago, at a time when I had moved abroad for 5 months, I re-experienced that experience of those video calls and I – almost inexplicably – discovered that I was pleasing many of the straight-bisexual-gay guys with whom I chatted. I started to like this thing and I continued to talk with some of these guys, leaving everything in the virtual sphere, but in some cases also creating friendships that still today, with great difficulty, I’m trying to carry on. Only once I met a guy much younger than me (19) who had involved me more mentally than physically, but it ended up rapidly  because I had not considered it particularly interesting until … until two months ago, when on a boring morning of work I enter FB and I see a post of a gay friend of mine with a picture taken from a page of a well-known application for gay dating, I’m curious, I download the app and create an account. Shortly thereafter messages from other users began to arrive, asking me to send them a picture of my body and face. After many requests and as many denials, to the umpteenth request I reply a bit “annoyed” attaching the photo: after just a few seconds a guy asks me if by any chance I worked in the society in which I work. I felt my blood freezing, I didn’t realize that this application for mobile phones also indicated the distance between users! Taken a bit from terror, but having now forwarded my full picture, I say yes and so we start to chat and get to know each other. He is my age, a deep look and above all a beautiful body, muscular and lean just as I like it: the male beauty canon that I always liked. After about four days, I decide to meet him to have a coffee and tell him that I’m married and never had a relationship with a man neither had sex with a man. He initially fells a little perplexed for a while, but then he says he likes me and wants to date me. So after a few days, we meet and spend a good – but for me also full of anxiety, so much anxiety – afternoon together, made of tenderness and understanding. I discover that in addition to having a beautiful body he also has a beautiful soul, deep and sensitive, rich and generous! So for about two months now, this relationship goes on and I think I start feeling something – that is not love or at least it is not in the form that I have already experienced with my wife – and if before I thought that it was a sexual need I realized thanks to him that I miss being able to rely on a man, feel his body, his physical proximity, his prestancy and have a comparison from peer to peer. In short, I was looking for all those feelings of security and acceptance that I have always given to my wife and to all the people I love. All this to tell you that … I’m confused! I don’t know how this relationship can evolve with him to whom I feel I cannot give 100% of myself – this hurts me because I feel that I am depriving him of the possibility of enjoying a true and total love – and very often I would want to make my wife participate in the happiness and feeling of completeness that I am reaching thanks to the happiness I am feeling with him. I would like so much to confirm to her that I love her and that the life projects we have done together we will realize them together, but at the same time I would like to convince her of my need to have at my side a man who can reassure me and speak to me as only a man can do. I thought I’d tell her all this, but I know I would hurt her because I know the idea she has of bisexuals (if she tolerate gays, for bisexuals she says they are perverts because they do the “ndo cojo cojo” life [“ndo cojo cojo” is an expression of the Roman dialect which means “where I hit I hit”]) and she wouldn’t deserve it; but above all I doubt she can understand. I desperately need advice, I want to evaluate the situation with your help so as to have more items at hand and, if I had to twist my life, I would like to have the most complete picture of the consequences. Thank you very much for helping!! R.


Hi lgian, first of all welcome to the forum!! And now let’s move on to the specific question. Your email is “a classic” in the sense that it is very difficult to describe better what true bisexuality is, that is, to experience a deep sexual and emotional involvement both towards men and women. I mean that in most cases there is a dissociation of the affectivity that remains heterosexual from the sexuality that is markedly homosexual, and this involves that an emotional relationship with a man becomes particularly difficult. But in your case affectivity and sexuality are not at all dissociated and then you can experience a real falling in love with a man (which in case of dissociation is not realized). It must be said at once that the true bisexuality, the one like yours, is not a common thing. There are a lot more gays than real bisexuals and certainly a lot more people with a dissociated bisexuality (hetero affectivity and gay sexuality) than really bisexual people. The situation of a bisexual dissociated, paradoxically, is less complicated, because his homosexual needs can be resolved on an occasional basis and put less in crisis the heterosexual life that tends at least at an emotional level to remain stable. For a true bisexual, the presence of a male partner is first of all an emotional necessity and therefore the true bisexual tends to build stable and serious relationships with a man, exactly as he tends to do with a woman, but here arises the real problem, because a serious straight relationship, especially if formalized in marriage, presupposes exclusivity; even a serious gay relationship presupposes exclusivity, although perhaps in a lesser degree than what happens in a marriage relationship, but for a bisexual, and even more for a non-dissociated bisexual, exclusivity is a very heavy forcing. A bisexual, in any case, is faced with a choice: either he leaves his emotional and sexual life very fluid, not only without getting married, but without demanding or trying to achieve stable relationships of any kind, or must necessarily sacrifice half of his own affectivity-sexuality. In a situation like yours there is even a marriage and there is, behind, a heterosexual life that lasted several years and with the assumption both implicit and explicit of stability. Since your life at the time of marriage had always been heterosexual, getting to marriage was almost automatic, I mean that those who know they are gay or bisexual should think about it very well before getting married, in your case you could not predict the evolution of your affectivity-sexuality years later and then nobody can blame you for anything. You have no children, but you say that you are thinking about it, well, given the situation I would try to think about it very well, before, especially because your wife doesn’t know how things really are and very likely couldn’t accept them at all. If there are no children, with all the problems that this can entail, it’s not too much difficult to get to the separation and then to the divorce, but if there are children, problems are likely to become very large, I don’t just mean for you, but especially for children, who are forced to live stressful situations that may have serious psychological implications even after years. Even with a wife aware and willing to have children, the fact of giving birth to a son, for a married bisexual is still problematic, but if the wife is unconscious she may think she has been deceived, not at the time of marriage, but when you yourself have come to the awareness of how things were. Another observation: you are married, and a married man, for a gay is certainly not the best choice, a gay knows very well that getting together with a married man creates many complications and getting together with a married who has children is much more complicated. This means that finding a mate to create a gay couple would not be easy anyway. Generally, when there are children, the only things “realistically” possible are the compromise choices, in which a relationship is created with a man, but let’s say, low profile, more a relationship of amorous friendship than a real couple relationship, because the fundamental requirement is the protection of children. In such a situation even wives are much more cautious in choosing to separate, however it is essential to maintain a clear relationship with one’s wife and try to make her understand how things really are, even at the risk of putting the marriage in crisis. when there are no children, the choices may be less compromise choices, but the fact remains that even a stable gay couple relationship ends up not going well for a true bisexual, because in the end the gay partner doesn’t see the bisexual as a bisexual but he sees him like a gay and expects from him an exclusivity of almost matrimonial type. Realistically one might think of a loving friendship, if the partner is willing to accept a relationship of this kind, what is even possible, if relationship are very free and in any case the bisexual partner should make the effort to talk clearly to his wife, even at risk of undermining marriage, what is less disruptive when there are no children. I know very well that many gay guys don’t accept the fact that I tend to recommend compromise solutions, but they are gay not bisexual guys and above all don’t have the prospect of a married life. But this is honestly what I think and also the synthesis of the similar experiences that emerged from Gay Project. I would advise you to read the chapters on bisexuality and married gays in the book “Being Gay”, which contains several real examples of situations that might be of interest to you.


Hi Igian, I’m 33, almost 34, so I can give you a very heartfelt opinion. I am gay, and I accepted myself as such at the age of 23, after a period of bisexual latency that lasted a few years. Live this story that has happened to you, as you like better, however things go, but I want to give you a very spontaneous and immediate advice: since only now you have doubts about your sexuality, avoid conceiving a child with your wife, before you have clarified yourself mentally. Even if a child is always a gift from God, given the situation everything could be emotionally to his detriment in the event of divorce. But in addition, imagine the legal consequences that the thing could have if you divorce from your wife when you have a child (consequences you wouldn’t have if you don’t procreate). If you want to have some advice, we are always ready to give you our opinion in chat. Indeed, I invite you just to enter the chat so we can talk quietly about the confusion that you’re living. Greetings. Pugsley


Dear Project, Thank you first for providing me with very useful elements regarding my condition of – now I can say it more quietly – true bisexual. From the analysis you have made, it emerges, as usual, that clear and simple situations don’t suit me; on the contrary, in spite of the evident difficulties I had and I will probably continue to have, I’m a bit relieved that you have recognized in me the “true” bisexuality. I spoke often about this condition with him – I will call Enzo – and other chat friends who, and as you describe well in the volume “Being Gay”, have always replied that bisexuality doesn’t exist and that I had to admit that I’m gay: in short, It’s like adding confusion and uncertainty to my already difficult situation! It is a very difficult moment, especially because in addition to my happiness in this case there are also the lives of two other people – my wife and Enzo – for whom, in a different way, I feel a strong and deep feeling. In me, the fear of losing my wife while confessing her my bisexuality is very great as it is very great even the fear of losing Enzo putting him in the face of certainty that up today I cannot guarantee him any relationship of exclusivity.

At the same time, I think I have to talk to my wife about myself, my situation and the fact that I have discovered today not to feel completely myself because a part of me requires something that she cannot give me and I look for in a man. Easy to say … isn’t it? I wonder at this point what the next step may be. How to tell her? Keep silent about the relationship I’m having with Enzo? And then what would happen if she thought that  my so called problems where just transient follies without foundation, given that I have never felt a feeling for a man? Tell her about Enzo? Making her feel even more betrayed? The confusion increases more and more and I’m even more confused about how to act because, reading the volume you have advised me, I understand that even if I found the courage to talk with her the situation wouldn’t anyway know improvements destined to last. In particular, the passage in which you say:

“For bisexuals 50/50 adapt to an exclusive sexuality, be it heterosexual or gay, is a restrictive limitation and in these cases, they realize a half of their sexuality in the couple relationship, but it is difficult to reduce the other half to masturbation only and they actually feel the need also for a couple relationship of the other kind. … Generally a bisexual with a 50% gay propensity, given the social environment in which he lives, will tend to orient himself more to form a heterosexual fixed couple than a gay fixed couple, that would be against the current. In general, for a bisexual, precisely because it is much easier to live a straight couple sexuality, the typical models of the straight couple end up being dominant.”

It seems therefore more a condemnation rather than a road to seek happiness, now aware – and I always thought a little so – that if I had to decide whether to stay with my wife or follow Enzo I would always find myself “not complete”, not adequate, not happy. And yet, it would be so nice to be able to share with people you love your own happiness, to actually be yourself and show that you can love – in different ways and intensities – people of the other and of the same sex. Why does society force us to exclusivity that is to sacrifice ourselves and our feelings? As for the children’s speech, we are in a phase of a bit of a deadlock. Regardless of the considerations on my personal and intimate situation, we are evaluating the thing well because our uncertainties don’t only concern the ability to grow and give love to a possible child but also the fact that he can give us happiness as a couple and as individuals. Happiness is often what we all seek; I, unlike many, have always placed, in my life as a son, husband and friend, the happiness of others before mine and maybe that’s why I have now reached the limit and I’m looking for happiness, I also want it to myself, although I’m aware of not being sure to reach it and having to undertake a difficult path. I don’t know if I have the courage, I should find it, for myself … Thanks again for the patience you have in listening to people who approach this forum and for the professionalism and grace with which you respond to their requests for help and explanation. A really good job!



Dear Pugsley, thanks very much to you for your heartfelt opinion, but I think also very reasoned, that you wanted to give me. My intention, in this full and total confusion, is to avoid hurting the two people involved, one knowingly – Enzo – and the other without his knowledge – my wife – in this new situation that is upsetting my life. As I told Project, for now the children’s project is a bit on stand-by for different reasons, we often talk about it but still we are not totally convinced and we are procrastinating, although the underlying intention remains, to date. I also gladly accept the advice to come and have a meet people in Project’s chat, even if it will be a bit difficult because the couple’s life allows me to carve out only a few moments of intimacy. Any further advice you will want to give me, even on what I have answered to Project, will be welcome: I really need it!!! Thanks again for the support, R.


Hello lgian, yes indeed for a bisexual exclusivity is a condemnation and it is a condemnation substantially of social origin. Many things, which are commonly given for granted, as if they were basic laws of life or nature, are really conventions that have crystallized over the centuries and which “objectively” are pure preconceptions. We have a family model based on marriage that is an institution that starts from anything but obvious postulates. The same presumption of being able to constrain feelings by creating legal obligations for affectivity and sexuality is absurd. One can be obliged for the future (and for short periods) to do a job or to pay an amount of money, but certainly not to love a person. The marriage failures in Italy are now more than 50% of marriages, more than 50% of marriages end in separations and divorces, a sign that the institution is based on incongruous assumptions. The logic of marriage is “all or nothing”, or 100% love and always or marriage doesn’t exist, but reality is completely different, love can be 70% or 50% and even less but it is still love. The speech is also valid in the gay field, all gay guys, at the beginning, dream of stories like that of charming prince and of an overwhelming and eternal love, then slowly learn to leave the world of fairy tales and keep the feet on the ground in the world of reality. Lots of gay people stop looking for a mate, because the life of a married couple can also be good if there are certain indispensable assumptions, that is, if the couple is a real “spontaneous” exclusive couple, which is however very rare. The legal recognition of homosexual marriage is fine for the recognition of equal rights but, as happened in Spain, the number of homosexual marriages will certainly be low, and it should be added that if it were high due to social pressure, as happens among straight people, it would face the same pathologies of heterosexual marriage and a similar proportion of divorces and separations would arrive. In the hetero world, marriage, in theory, aims to protect children (as if to force parents to stay together by law was the best situation for children!), but in the gay world where the hypothesis of children is marginal, the legal obligation would be counterbalanced only by economic advantages such as the reversibility of the pension, which however could be linked, rather than to marriage, to the assumption of obligations of mutual assistance, because often marriages, with the years, become only this. Today as today the claim of exclusivity exists and I think that things will remain so for many years. But what can be done to make it clear to a wife who has grown up in the marriage myth that a bisexual man can feel forced into an exclusive relationship? Is it possible to require that this woman reasons with a mentality that would be in radical disagreement with the age-old tradition of her family and society? Frankly it is hard to believe that it can work. I have also seen, very rarely, women who have adapted to a similar situation, but I must say that they have suffered a lot. On the other hand, putting one foot in two shoes is not even a viable solution because it is basically a deception towards the wife. And there is also another complication because talking freely to one’s own wife involves that then she will talk “confidentially” with parents and other family members and they, always “confidentially” will talk with others, until everyone will know not how things really are but that you’re a weird, you have strange ideas in mind, you do strange things, etc. etc. On the other hand, the alternative is to close the other half of one’s affectivity and sexuality altogether into the closet, self-repressing oneself to try to save the marriage, what in the long run would make marriage itself oppressive and unbearable. Last observation: between the discovery of one’s own gay side and the possibility of creating a “stable but not exclusive” story with a man there is an abyss, seen from the outside it seems easy but the problems always appear later. In conclusion it is a very complicated situation that will still lead you to sacrifice something because, they can say or deny it, both your wife and the man you are interested in will not be satisfied with 50% of you.


Hello lgian, My horizon of experiences is essentially different from yours. To express an opinion on the situation, at least for me, would be at least risky. I fully agree with what they have highlighted both Project and Pugsley, and that is that the situation in which you find yourself deserves a deep reflection, especially about the possibility that you and your wife want to have children. The only thing I can really tell you is to reflect on how you imagine your future life and how you would really feel. You could, it is true, live a double life, made of your wife’s emotional response and, at the same time, of Enzo or any boy with whom you would possibly feel on the same wavelength. But could you really manage to endure and live such a complicated and anxiety-provoking relationship? I find it difficult to imagine a double life that is really satisfying and lived in a very peaceful way. As you speak, it is clear that the feelings both towards your wife and Enzo are sincere, but you yourself felt the need to put yourself in their shoes: what is the life they want? Your wife wants an exclusive relationship with the crowning of the children. Enzo, presumably, in the long run could demand a more exclusive relationship from you. Their idea of life and their emotional needs must be respected as much as yours, for this reason as central question arises the question related to which life you really desire. In your situation, I sincerely wouldn’t know how to behave. Personally I try to be always honest with people, so I would probably try to be clear with my wife. But it is a purely hypothetical and theoretical reasoning that, if I were to live it, I would not really know how to deal with it. Life is always much more complicated than any theory. Obviously this is not the suggestion I give you. Taking a step like this involves real risks that are beyond our control. But at the same time, the relationship with your wife has already changed profoundly.

Best wishes.


I share many of the things that those who preceded me wrote to you. As I see it personally, the discourse on your sexual orientation could however be reductive. Just a few days ago had been published on this forum a mail of a guy who seems to have built an emotional relationship with two other guys and he was also faced with the dilemma of having to decide what to do and, like you, he seemed to experience  feelings toward both guys who for different reasons satisfied different sides of him. Even he, like you, fantasized about a possible unlikely relationship with three partners, unlikely not only for social problems but because of the evident difficulty that each of us feels having to accept that he is not enough. Of similar situations in hetero version then you can find as many as you like. I would therefore invite you to separate the moment of awareness of your sexuality from the concrete situation in which you are stuck and from which you can only go out blowing up the desk. It is clear that your wife will never accept the situation and in this regard I invite you to read the many stories of girls who shared their experiences in this forum. These are confused women, who have difficulty with accepting their partner’s homosexuality, and don’t accept at all that they cannot help him. Such situations are certainly complicated by your condition that is already unclear in itself, because you would go on to communicate that you are bisexual. It is not even clear how much the boy in question is aware of your bisexuality and would seriously agree to share you with your wife and how much rather he is waiting for you to make a clear decision, perhaps hoping that saying it to her you would interrupt the relationship with your wife to start an exclusive relationship with him. You dwell on the matter just a little, but from what you wrote it seems to me you have already found yourself in the condition of having to explain to him that the relationship with him don’t make you feel 100% complete and I can suppose that he didn’t take it well. Unfortunately you didn’t introduce yourself as a bisexual to both of them, and they didn’t have the chance to decide to deal with a bisexual, that is, they didn’t realize that it could happen at any moment that they should have to share you with other people. You have experienced asymmetrical relationships in which surely your wife has remained in the dark about everything, but even the guy could have hoped until the end that you were actually a confused homosexual. If in the meantime this confusion has disappeared, at least you could clarify your sexuality and, believe me, it is not a little thing. In my opinion the last thing you can hope for is a three-way relationship because in this way you should expect the situation to become explosive. Only you can choose what to do, whether to say everything clearly or to aspire to some form of compromise with the situation. But if you found yourself in this situation at a time when you and your wife were planning for a child, it’s probably because you don’t like this compromise and if you realize this it’s better to interrupt the relationship now than later in the presence of children. I’m sorry because I realize that for a bisexual it is even easier to hide one’s sexuality and this does not simplify things at all.


This last week when I tried to understand the situation that I was living, I was abroad for work. I and Enzo had met last Friday for the last time, it had been a nice and long afternoon taken away from work – and partly from my wife – where we had made love and talked, intimately as we often did. It has been a long week, a week full of thoughts, many, about the situation I am experiencing and of silences, many, of Enzo. Since last Saturday I have perceived his distance; he was absent for the whole day, he didn’t respond to my messages, he closed himself and he replied in an almost monosyllabic manner to my greetings: I understood that something had happened, that something had changed. And the week went on a little like this, with me looking for him and with him that could be found, yes, but always with an infinite distance between us. Yesterday I returned to the city after this week of travel and I rushed to him in a state of evident tension; the reception was just like I expected it: not to see him waiting for me at the door made me realize in an instant how distant, far away, but firm and decided was his soul. We had tea, we talked and confirmed what I had felt – and that you yourself had foreseen – this situation made of his expectations and the impossibility of living with me a normal relationship was hurting him and, for his own good, he decided it was better if the thing ended there. The words were different, the sense very clear and reasoned: so reasoned that I could not tell him anything, except that he was right, with an infinite sadness in the heart, and deep sense of emptiness that I tried and I’m trying. He told me that he had come to this choice after the last conversations we had last Friday when I would have said that I certainly wouldn’t be able to offer him what he wanted and that I would never leave my wife. When he reminded me of what I said, honestly, I was a bit upset because it’s been weeks that on the contrary I’m questioning myself, about my marriage and my life; I don’t remember so much firmness in my words and I’m really sorry they hurt him and made him feel lonely. What I certainly told him on Friday is that the Enzo that I knew and I care so much deserves to live a beautiful love story without all the complications that I have brought with my life in his life. This yes, I said it, to my detriment but to his advantage: not to remove him from me, but because knowing that he was not totally happy “thanks” to me, has always made me feel even more sad and insecure. He really is a special guy and deserves more, much more, than I can offer him today and have given him to this day. So I acknowledge my faults, but yesterday one of his affirmations hurt me: the meaning was “you never told me the truth, one day you said you wanted me, the other you could not assure me anything, I cannot believe a person like you.” This, yes, hurts me, because if there is one thing that I have always put at the center of our relationship this is the full and total sincerity, certainly not lies: it is the confusion I am experiencing that, perhaps, doesn’t lead me to always make firm decisions and to act accordingly, but I never wanted to make fun of him, take advantage of him and lie to him. I’m not that kind of person and I would never have behaved like that with someone I love. He told me that each of us must take his time to think about himself, while remaining a friendly relationship, whose evolution I honestly don’t know where it will lead. Speaking about me, he said that I must now think about how to solve the profound crisis I am experiencing with my wife; I’m not sure of this statement. I don’t feel that I’m experiencing any couple crisis, but simply an internal and deeply intimate crisis of mine due to the necessity of having to complete myself sharing my life even with a man, not so much from a sexual point of view – that I like, it’s obvious – but above all mental and sentimental. To explain to him my strong need to have even a man next to me I told him something simple, and effective for me: I need to experience every now and then the sense of “masculine” security that my hug gives my wife, lifting me at least for a few moments from the responsibility of having to always be the one who supports others. But I think that here I would return to the talk about bisexuality and the difficulties that a bisexual like me lives and will have to live. I don’t think that the relationship with my wife has changed in the years or in these months, the mental understanding is always alive like the sexual one; obviously in these months my mind has been occupied by the idea of taking care also of Enzo and of our relationship, I don’t hide it, but I’m not sure that this could make our marriage a marriage in crisis. I will need time to keep thinking about this too. Yesterday as I went down the stairs of his house, I felt a huge distance. I share his choice, his words, his motivations; I share them even though I know have to face the existence of an emptiness inside me and the awareness of having to continue to look inside myself to try to understand how I imagine my future and what priorities I have to give myself. It will not be easy, because the choices are not easy, and at this point I’m not even convinced I’ll ever be able to pursue my total happiness. Now I have to take some time, silent, to think of myself and free my mind a little. Being able to love two people is a beautiful feeling and I, at this point, I can say I tried it, in different ways and forms, but I tried it and I’m happy with that. Too bad it is not possible to manage its evolution avoiding to harm others. Enzo will remain an important person who has passed through my life and who could continue to play an important role as a friend. I say it will be difficult because I don’t know how I can actually react to this new situation and to the lack of his hugs and his smiles.

Today I will see him at work and we said that even today, as we did in the last two months, we will have breakfast together and I will try to show myself peaceful and quiet, today it will be a constraint for me, but over time I hope he returns to those states of mind. I’m sorry I hurt him, but the affection I have for him has always been so much and will be so in the future, I’m almost certain. I have always told him that “it would have been better for both of us if in that application I knew someone interested only in a sexual encounter and not a beautiful person like you”. In reality today I think exactly the opposite: it was nice to know him, meet him, make love with him, discover with a person like him a part of me that was always hidden. I will always bring a good memory of this experience and I am sure I will always be moved by thinking of him and the intimacy we have reached, more mental than physical.

Hi, R.


Hi lgian, from what you write I understand that Enzo doesn’t see you as a bisexual but as a gay man, something very common in situations of this kind. He expects from you the typical reactions of a married gay who at some point goes into crisis with his wife because he decides to give space to his homosexuality, but you are not in crisis with your wife, apart from the fact that you say it explicitly, you’re not exactly because you’re bisexual and for you an openness to gay affectivity certainly does not undermine a marriage. For you it is nice to love two people and you don’t ask yourself at all the problem of the choice between Enzo and your wife. Will Enzo disappear completely from your life? Well … first of all, as for you, whatever happens, you will not forget him, because you know very well that his going away is not a betrayal but an impossibility and as for him, over time, he could also realize that you also didn’t betray him and you didn’t lie to him and in this case he could very well try to recreate a relationship even if on other bases, I’m talking about a friendship that is never a trivial thing, but if he had found a possessive partner he could also end up moving away permanently. In any case, from these experiences you two learn a lot on both sides and you learn above all to understand that the other is really another and that he has his dreams and his projects and sometimes it is difficult to reconcile different ways of seeing the affective life. I ask you to include this whole discussion (starting from your opening post) in the book “Being Gay”, as a document attached to the chapter on bisexuality, because I think this discussion clarifies many concepts and can be extremely useful to several people. Let me know what you think. Obviously, if you don’t agree, nothing will be done.


Dear Project, sorry if I answer you after such a long time, but I have had busy weeks, both from a business and sentimental point of view! The important thing is that I’m continuing to hear from Enzo and see him. Thanks to your forum, we have spoken more intensely about my / our situation and we are trying to carry on our relationship, even if both with the awareness of not being able to understand and hypothesize the evolution of our relationship. I’m very happy, I admit it, because the feeling I feel is strong and being able to talk to him, to feel his body, to love him, is a wonderful feeling that completes me! As for my story, I’m glad if it can help and support other guys in similar situations. So you can safely use it and publish it in the book “Being Gay”. Greetings and thanks again for the support!



Hi lgian! I am really pleased to know that your relationship with Enzo continues. This is an uncommon fact that suggests that at the base there is something that is still very strong. Certainly the prospects for the future are not at all obvious but your relationship has resisted the first shocks and this suggests that it could even last in spite of everything. Then there is a big question mark: very balanced bisexuality, yes, of course, but what you write about Enzo suggests that there is a gay prevalence and, if it’s so, building a lasting relationship with Enzo becomes a hypothesis much less unreal. Thank you for publishing permission, I will provide as soon as possible!

If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-a-married-bisexual