I’M GAY BUT I’M FINE WITH MY GIRLFRIEND

Hi Project, a few days ago, surfing the net, I found your forum and started reading. I must say that I was very impressed because there are no obvious things. I begin to read a story or an email and I imagine an ending a bit like in a porn video, but then the story doesn’t work at all like that at all. Above all there is one thing that strikes me, there is also sex, but all in all it does not have a dominant position, it is not an obsessive idea, there is sex, it is important, but there are also feelings. Reading such things pleases me because I feel at home in them and I identify myself with some of the protagonists. Let’s talk a little about me. I’m 24 years old, I’m about to get my Master Degree and I feel realized from this point of view. I’m passionate about my studies which are not at all heavy for me, because I study things that I want to study. My family is not bad, my father is almost 60 years old, he has always tried to give me maximum autonomy, perhaps precisely because he knows that I would not abuse his trust, I have never been able to understand him, he treats me affectionately but I realize that I’m probably a concern for him, even if I don’t understand why, since I never had problems with studying and I think that afterwards I won’t even have problems finding work. I will come back later to this point because it is important, that is, it is important to me. My mother is not yet 50 years old, she feels a beautiful woman and in the end she is. I see her as very calm and even absent-minded when it comes to me and my situation, a bit the opposite of my father, that is, she sees me as someone who will never have problems and who is going on very well. Then there would be my sister, who is 28 years old and who got married six years ago. There was never a real relationship with her, that is, we never spoke with an open heart and she was not substantially interested in my life. You may have wondered why I didn’t say “I’m gay” up to this point. Here, in reality, even if it is absurd at the age of 24, I still have many doubts, or rather I have no doubts but I find myself living a very particular situation. I have a girlfriend since I was 18, and she 15, I will call her Mary. I have to try to make you understand the meaning of our relationship because it is more complicated than it may seem from outside. I’m fine with Mary, that is, I love her, she’s a very good girl and she loves me too, but she’s very different from the other girls and perhaps for this reason I really love her. We have been together for almost 6 years and have never had sex and not even things that vaguely resemble sex. She never asked me and never made me understand that she needs also sexual involvement. Some things are paradoxical: in public she’s very loose with me, kisses me on the mouth, caresses me, but when we are alone (which also happens rarely) there is none of this. Basically this is the reason why we stay together: I don’t feel cornered, for me, in essence she is a friend, a true friend but nothing else, that is, she’s not my girlfriend in the sense that guys generally give this expression, and there is also another reason, she not only doesn’t put me in a tight spot in order to induce me to have sex but when we talk, and at least we talk a lot on the phone, she never asks me for explanations, that is, she accepts our relationship as it is, without asking me and without asking herself questions of any kind. If we don’t meet on a Saturday, I just need to say that I can’t and she won’t even ask me why. I want to emphasize that she considers me an important person. Last year I went to the hospital for a small surgery and she came to all the relatives’ visits and she didn’t miss the visit a single time, she did it also because my parents were there and she had to play the role of the official girlfriend, but if my parents weren’t there, she would have come all the same. Project, I asked myself many questions about Mary, but I should have asked her those questions, but as she has always respected my privacy, so I too have always respected hers and I know very well that I must not pester her and I must not meddle in her things. Now I go back to my father. I think he’s worried because, despite Mary’s efforts to do her best  as girlfriend, my father begins to suspect that there is something strange about our engagement. We meet but it is clear that there is not all the involvement that should be there. I suspect that my father blames Mary for all this, that in essence he accuses her of being cold and detached, almost of playing the role of the girlfriend at best but not feeling in that role at all. My father thinks that the relationship with Mary makes me suffer but it is not at all like that, indeed the relationship with her calms me down, gives me serenity. In fact, my relationship with Mary is out of all the rules, she never talks about marriage and on the contrary in the speeches that are made with friends she has said many times that marriage is not needed if you love each other and it is a slavery in any other situation. And now something about me. I know I’ve always been gay, I’ve never had sexual interests for a woman, yet, I will tell you, Project, I think that living with Mary would be good and I never thought the same thing of a boy. We could be a couple without sex and at best with a little pampering, but sometimes I think that she would never accept a “bond” with me. I want to be explicit. All the other women don’t interest me at all, but Mary does, that is, it makes me tenderness, apart from the fact that I always wonder what is behind her behavior. I thought that she could be a lesbian, and she really could be, and the fact that she never spoke of such a possibility avoiding even the slightest hints, certainly does not eliminate suspicions, because I too have never spoken to her about my homosexuality. But not having talked about it, after all, is not a reticent behavior, that is, it is not a deception, we know very well that each of us has a private life and that that private life must be respected. On the gay side, so far, I have never had a story or anything similar to a story. I have a lot of fantasies and I go on with those and with some porn. Today as today the relationship with Mary doesn’t complicate anything for me, but what if I find a guy? I don’t know what could happen. I think that for Mary practically nothing would change and that maybe she would be happy too, the fact is that having a boyfriend is not compatible with having a girlfriend who has known your family for years. And then how could I tell my father that I’m gay? Mary also gave me a strange speech, she told me that if today or tomorrow our relationship ends, she would absolutely not make it a tragedy, we could remain friends as well and she said it with full conviction. I mean, Project, I like this girl. Sex has nothing to do with it, but I like her because she thinks like me, and between us, unlike what my father thinks, there is a practically perfect harmony. Project, I’m not cheating Mary and she’s not cheating me. Asking for explanations seems clearly out of place because I also don’t want to give explanations and then I believe there is no need for explanations. Even with my father I think it will go on like this. I don’t see any need to clarify. Then, if I would happen to find a boyfriend, then I will ask myself a lot of questions, but now, in my opinion, things must go on like this. What do you think about it? p.s.: If you want to publish this email do it freely. I have changed something of the details but the story in substance is that.

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A GAY GUY GOES TO THE ANDROLOGIST

Hi Project,

I am a closeted thirty-year-old gay guy who lives in a very homophobic town in the rich north-east of Italy. I would like to tell you my story and ask you what you think.

Just a nod on my life until a couple of years ago, at the beginning I used to look for a real love and I never found it, maybe because I looked for it in the wrong places and with the wrong methods, then I started to go not so much for subtlety (Quiet! I have always used all the methods of prevention.)

At the age of 27, I have to say, I was a drifter of sex, in a year I had collected almost a dozen stories, which obviously were not serious things, but in the end they were even frustrating. I would have liked a normal guy who loved me and I would have gladly put the final point to all the whirlwind of my research on the apps.

One day just through an app a guy contacts me, he says he is 26 years old, we talk a bit, he’s polite, seems one not obsessed with sex, he proposes me to meet each other, I think it’s too early and I try to postpone, I expect him to disappear but it doesn’t happen. He asks me for photos but I don’t give them to him, but we keep on talking even in the following days, we talk about everything, even about sex but without overdoing it and always in a very polite way.

After three weeks of online contacts he again asks me to meet him, this time I say yes but since I don’t want problems of any kind, we agree to meet in another city and spend Saturday and Sunday together (I don’t work on Saturday). I decide to go by train so as not to be identifiable even from the license plate of the car. Note, Project, that I had never even seen a picture of him and he had never seen one of me. We meet at the station at 9.00 in the morning. I tell my parents that I have to go on a mission for two days (things like that happened other times).

I do not know who I will meet, but I feel very excited, there is something that tells me that it will not be the usual meeting “escape and flee”. When I get on the train I realize I don’t have condoms with me, but I think I can buy them there too and that they might not be useless. In the place of the appointment he is already there waiting for me, the recognition signal works (a certain newspaper under his right arm). It seems a nice guy, indeed very nice. We leave the luggage at the station depot and we go around, it’s a beautiful sunny morning.

It’s all radically different from my previous encounters, we don’t talk about sex, rather we feel a certain embarrassment, we have breakfast together, we often exchange smiles, he’s a very sweet guy, I would like to know something more about him but asking questions seems inappropriate. He knows the city, even if it is not his city and has already prepared a whole project of things to do and places to go.

I perceived his presence, there were many silences, then I asked him if he felt embarrassed and he replied: “Before seeing you, while I was waiting for you! but not now! Not at all now! And you?” “I … well I’m just fine, no problem.” Then we began to joke, to tell each other jokes. He doesn’t tell sexual jokes and uses a very clean language. We go to lunch together in a restaurant, the climate is very relaxed, peaceful, pleasant.

We walk until evening, we have dinner together, then it’s time to go to the hotel, he says: “Do you mind if we take two single rooms?” I say no, but that request cools my enthusiasm a lot. He is glad that I didn’t insist on taking a double room. We go to the hotel but there are no single rooms, he looks at me and tells me: “What can we do? Is it okay for a double room?” I spread my arms and make a sign that it’s okay too, since there’s no other way.

We enter the room, he is very embarrassed and tells me: “Now what do we do?” I tell him that I would like to have a bit of sex, I would really like it but I don’t have condoms with me and ask him if he has any, he tells me: no, but he adds that there are also the non-dangerous ways of having sex and that he especially likes them. The room is very well heated. Project, I spare you the details and I just tell you that I had never had sex like that with a guy, just mutual masturbation and a lot of physical intimacy, but it was something unique because I saw him involved in such a total way that I wouldn’t have imagined that it could even exist. It was just an exciting thing at levels I had never tried. At the end we fell asleep in each other’s arms.

In the morning we didn’t have time to repeat the experience because we had to leave the room before 10.00 o’clock. We spent the Sunday morning joking and playing with each other, then we went for lunch together and I started asking him when we could meet again. He looked at me a little embarrassed and then he told me: “There’s one thing I didn’t tell you, I’m engaged!” I felt very uncomfortable and I told him: “But how is it? You have a boyfriend and you don’t tell me?” He replied: “You didn’t understand, I have a girlfriend …”

I told him that there was something strange according to me because he didn’t seem to me a straight guy looking for distraction, he told me: “I know I’m gay, I was fine with you and I would always stay with you but I cannot, because I have a girlfriend for years and now she is part of my family and I think that in a year at most we will get married” I looked at him with a perplexed air and I asked how the sex went with the girl and he replied: “Well, somehow it works, she never noticed anything but when I do it I think about something else, I’m not straight, there’s nothing to do, if it were for me I would never have sex with a woman, when I’m there, anyway, it works all the same but it is something that I do because I must do it, and then with her I could never speak clearly because she would feel betrayed, now we are in front of everyone a very solid couple and she believes it too, I don’t think I could avoid marrying her, by now I’m too far ahead with that story, she’s a good girl but I’m not interested in girls.”

I spent the rest of the afternoon trying to get him to think, but he felt trapped and had threw in the towel, he felt resigned to being a good husband at home and a good gay, maybe with me, some Saturday nights at the hotel. He told me that he had to break away from me, that I put him in crisis, I put him in front of the responsibility of his choices but that now the choices were made and there would be no chance to go back. We took the train and we went back home.

He disappeared for two weeks, he didn’t answer to the emails or the phone, then he contacted me again, we met one afternoon and he seemed really shattered. This is what he told me:

“Here they are just caging me, I cannot stay out of it, it’s all a trap, I had to go with her for eight days in a resort abroad, all paid for by my parents! And it was a shocking thing, she was happy, I could not stand her anymore but she was the victim and I had to console her, I was forced to make love with her because otherwise she ended up in depression. She really didn’t understand anything. I thought to speak clearly but I didn’t dare to imagine her reaction and then I pretended to be worried about work reasons. I thought that in the resort we would be alone and instead her parents made us the nice surprise that they were there also them! I cannot stand it anymore! I have to go out of the cage but I don’t know how. If I said I’m gay, nobody would believe it …

“What could be done to resolve the situation? In the end we thought something that could work, he would go a couple of times to an andrologist, perhaps the first time accompanied by the girl, accusing pain in the testicles and then after the second examination it should have said that he had to do the seminogram and a few days after that the result was that he could not have children, anyway, as a gay, he would certainly not have had children from another woman.

He didn’t want to accept the whole script, it seemed to him a real hoax, but then he was aware that the alternative would be the wedding therefore he came to a milder attitude. He didn’t know whether to speak clearly with his parents, but when your parents don’t even realize that you are not well with your girlfriend and force you to go on holiday with her … to speak clearly would mean just throwing open a pot without knowing what’s inside.

In the end we have agreed all the details and all the preparatory speeches. I realize that, seen from the outside, all this seems like an expedient of the lowest alloy to avoid the coming out, but a coming out in a situation like that would have been ruinous. To realize the whole project, a low level staging, it is true, but perhaps the least traumatic solution, it took more than a month.

When he went to the girl and told her that he could not have children, the girl expected it and the recitation of the great pain had been well prepared by her family and ended with the promise to remain friends, but he wanted to return all gifts and said he preferred to permanently close an experience that had ended up being traumatic.

I summarized the whole story in a few lines but it was very demanding, stressful and even risky because, if our trick had been detected, for him it would have been a disaster, but it went well! From the following Saturday we started our meetings in the hotel in the nearby city and I think our story will continue. We’re all right together and we’re planning to change both our jobs and to move both of us to that city, away from prying eyes, he too thinks that coming out, even just in the family, is certainly inopportune. Among other things, his parents know nothing about the andrologist’s story and think that their son, the poor guy, will never marry because he cannot have children and it is good that they continue to think so.

Project, don’t look bad at me, the coming out in certain situations is not really thinkable. So we rest assured and the girl can make her life with someone who really wants her and his parents have put their soul in peace and at least there is no gossip about homosexuality because the story is all straight! Could I send him to the marriage slaughter? No! Should he expose himself to a destructive coming out? No! At least, so they are all happy and we first of all.

Let me have your news soon.
David

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A GIRL IN LOVE FOR TWO YEARS WITH A REPRESSED GAY GUY

I’m reluctantly going out from a story with a repressed guy man I loved and love so much still now, despite all the evil he did to me. I only left him for two weeks ago because I realized that he had never really loved me. I state that I’m 26 years old and he is 23.

We met at an internship, we exchanged the numbers and for commitments of both we met two months later to go for a coffee together. Well, that night we talked about this and that, nothing more.

Arrived home I got a text message in which he confessed me his love and he hoped that it was reciprocated. Honestly this thing made me think a lot, because it is unthinkable to love a person so quickly, especially because he had just come out of a story that had lasted two years. In the following days we started to meet, he seemed really a sweet and tender guy and so at the end I tied myself to him and after a week or so we got together, even though initially I was a little hesitant.

The first kiss was sought by him, and so even the first time we made love it was he the one who did the first step, let’s say it all happened fast enough.

After only 3 weeks, he wanted to take me to his parents because he cared very much about this thing, and so I went into his family.

The more time passed the more that sweet and good guy became a distant memory. He was a type who later was discovered to be a great liar, but of the chronic ones; even though he knew he had lied to me he managed to treat me badly and to tell me bad things because I had allowed myself to doubt him. I don’t tell you how many tears I have shed, he often and gladly treated me badly even when I worried about him.

For example, once we were at the beginning of our engagement, he had to take an exam at the university, so in the afternoon, as usual, I called him to know how it went. Immediately after seeing my text messages and my calls he turned off the phone, and I, desperate, not knowing what had happened and imagining that something had not gone well with the exam, I decided to go to his house to see how he was and to lift a little his spirits, in case.

I arrive behind the door and find him ready to go out with his roommate friend to buy something, I saw him quite serene, but seeing me he got angry, he took me aside and told me that he didn’t want to answer because he was nervous because he hadn’t taken the exam and I would never have to allow myself to go to his house without warning. I felt very bad of course, because instead of appreciating that his girlfriend was worried about him, he got angry, and I didn’t understand why he was calm when he was with that friend and became almost rancorous with me! He was always like that with me, if he was nervous about his business he treated me badly for no reason, he told me the worst things, while for his friends he was another person.

He didn’t even want me to approach his phone for a matter of privacy and so over time I discovered he was hiding many things from me: he messaged secretly with other girls.

I have always been very sincere with him and I wanted him to do the same, because if he didn’t do anything wrong he wouldn’t need to hide. At the beginning he was really a chronic liar, he even came to lie about his past. Over time and with various speeches that I did he changed enough.

On a sentimental level instead I found myself with a person completely different from what he was at the beginning. He was not the type who kissed me on my cheek, who hugged me tightly, who cuddled me, these things were not spontaneous for him. Even when he was kissing me I didn’t feel passion and complicity, sometimes I happened to have to interrupt a kiss because it seemed no more than a play consisting in rhythmically move the tongue! I felt that those kisses were detached, and he justified his mistakes and his behavior as “inexperience”.

Even on a sexual level things were not going very well, he was very selfish, and we made love quite rarely because he was always stressed and tired. Only once I allowed myself to say with all the sweetness “I want you” but the ruckus broke loose, he began to shout against me and tell me that I didn’t understand that he was tired and that I used to make love only for “venting”. I don’t tell you the tears! As usual I was the one who had to pay for everything and who felt bad about the discussions, he, on the contrary, was totally indifferent, and rather than clarifying he preferred to go for a good night’s sleep. I thought it was a matter of character. Once after a discussion in which I had finished crying because he had treated me badly, he had understood that he was wrong and in order to show himself really sorry (I saw him out of the corner of the eye) he licked his hand and then wetted his eyes. I was puzzled by that gesture, but I didn’t say anything to prevent him from being uncomfortable.

Returning to the previous speech, to prevent him from reacting badly, I waited for him to make the first step to make love, based on how he felt! The intercourse, however, wasn’t very satisfying, he liked better to be masturbated by me rather than to make love classically. In time, talking about it, however, I made it clear to him that it was more important for me to make love classically because it was much more beautiful and intimate in a couple in love and so he changed his behavior to please me.

I had always noticed that his penis was not hard enough and that came out almost nothing of sperm. Initially talking to him he wanted me to believe it could be a pathology. In time he confessed to me that he used to masturbate 5-6 times a day, and from there I understood why he almost never wanted to make love. This thing made me feel very ill, because I thought that it was I was who was the problem, to be ugly and undesirable, so much so that my boyfriend preferred to do it by himself.

He simply told me that he loved me and that this was his longtime habit. I remember sadly the first night on vacation where we had the chance to sleep in the double bed together. As soon as I approached him looking for cuddles he turned away and with a serious and annoyed tone told me: “turn the other way and sleep!”, I remained silent, I did not understand why he reacted like that, I did as he told me and without making him notice I cried a lot.

I come now to tell an episode that dates back to a period before his “crisis”. One afternoon he had to study with a very esteemed friend, his college mate. We should have met after they had finished studying. That evening for no apparent reason he treated me badly with an unprecedented wickedness, told me that I had ugly dark circles, that my hair was ugly and he also pointed out other physical defects with a face literally “disgusted”. Obviously I was felt badly, and my self-esteem was affected again.

A few weeks later (we are talking about a year ago) it was a period when he was very nervous and he treated me very badly, he came to tell me that we could not be together because he could not love me, and he would never have succeeded, that he didn’t want make fun of me anymore and delude me. He said that in his own way he had loved me, but that always, not only with me then, he couldn’t feel feelings for anyone, even in old stories, he couldn’t even cry (and now I understand why he thought I was pretending when I cried because of him).

He asks me not to abandon him and I, who was anyway very attached to him, understand his discomfort and decide to stay close to him to try to understand where his malaise was coming from. In this period I try to talk a lot and to find the origin of his discomfort. He manages to tell me that he, compared to the other guys, he has never felt much attraction for women, for example if he saw a girl in a miniskirt he felt nothing at all. He comes to hypothesize to be gay, and he seems more and more convinced of it to the point of wanting to stay forever on his own because he would never have accepted the truth.

His dream would have been to go away and live his life away from everyone.

In this period I am his confidant and try to pull out of him the toad he had inside. It also comes out that as a child he discovered sexuality with an uncle 9-10 years older. In this “game” he had to masturbate his uncle, and he did it for a while … he didn’t tell me more. However I try to reassure him and try to minimize everything by saying that anyway they are experiences that can happen when sexuality is not yet developed and doesn’t mean that for this he is gay. I was convinced that maybe he was becoming obsessed by the idea of being gay, and that anyhow he was not.

When he told me this, it was as if he felt a bit of resentment towards this uncle, as if his uncle had taken advantage of him who at the time was a boy, somehow an easy prey. But in reality he loves this uncle (I too know this uncle), he loves him very much and vice versa, this uncle loves him very much. He has always considered him a good person … for him he is his best uncle!

Once become aware of such thing and seeing his discomfort I propose to go together with to a psychologist but in the end he is never ready to go, always postpones until he ends up saying that he doesn’t need it.

In the meantime he, convinced that we cannot go back together, for my own sake, pushes me to go out with other guys and stay only friends with him, and slowly he moves away more and more. At the end I decide to go out with a friend with whom there had been something in the past, even to test his reaction. Starting from this episode he approached me again telling me that he loved me, that he had only had a bad time and that he wanted to care about me. Shortly thereafter, after 3 months of “friendship”, a little naively perhaps, because I was too much in love with him, I believe him and we come back together.

Things with him are not going very well, he continues to be nervous and stressed for no apparent reason, the exams went great, he was finishing all in time, there were only 2 small easy exams to overcome and he was one step away from graduation. Secretly he began to smoke because of anxiety, and in his life he had never smoked! Even with me things were not good, on a sexual level I was not looking for a lot, and every time we made love he lose the erection, and sometimes even blamed me because he said he saw me absent and it was not true at all!

Just two months after our returning together, he falls again into crisis, we are in late July, last year, and he once again come to tell me that he doesn’t love me, and never will, that the fault is not mine but he doesn’t feel feelings for anyone; he leaves me this time for two and a half months, in August, the first month, he sent me messages telling me that he loved me, that he was wrong and that he wanted to see me again, but he never did anything concrete to see me again.

In September and mid-October it disappears completely and afterwards he goes back to show himself sending me a lot of text messages and I, tired and still hurt, I call him and ask him to leave me in peace after all the evil he did to me.

He arrives up to tell me that he has been a month with another girl, and punctually like always, also because he saw me agitated, because it seemed that I was the problem, he starts to totally denies what he had just said perhaps for fear of losing me, but I don’t believe him.

I find him one morning behind the door with a bouquet of flowers and my heart still weak could not say no! He told me that he had only left because he was stressed out by the thesis but that he always loved me, it was nonsense but the heart sometimes doesn’t want to see certain things and I believed him! He told me that during this period he did nothing and told me that he had been with a girl for a month just to know if I was engaged with someone else (the reality is that he had disappeared also with text messages for a month so I’m well aware that the story he told me is just a lie). Honestly I think he could do it because, not feeling anything for anybody, according to his thought, one girl or other doesn’t matter at all, the important thing is to appear heterosexual, especially if it is a dear friend of his the one who introduces him to the girls in question … all easy girls!

Things immediately went wrong, even the first time we did it as soon as we got back together his erection faded and his penis became soft quite immediately and so all the other times, he didn’t have a good (hard) erection. I didn’t feel in him the desire to have sex with me, as I have never felt it in two years of our story. Many times I told him that I had the impression that he mechanically made love, and he punctually got mad at it! Lately he told me that those caresses, those kisses and those cuddles he did to me, which he never had done before, were a play, were only a “recitation” because he hadn’t really changed. I felt very bad, and even more, because I believed he had unlocked himself since at the beginning I had asked him to make me some cuddle and do me some caress every now and then.

I was wrong! He punctually said that it was not true and that he had said it because he was nervous … I think instead that it was just when he was nervous that he was really telling me how things were … with a cold mind he was inclined to deny everything not to let me get away.

One of the last times we made love, immediately after putting the condom, in a few seconds, without giving me even time to undress, his erection became soft, and once again he blamed me saying “Asshole! Hurry up!”; understanding his embarrassment I didn’t even answer, it was clear that it was not my fault! It was he who, in his haste to put on a condom, had given me no time to undress! Usually, knowing his problem, I preferred to wait a while and was not in a hurry. The fact is that I was tired of his humiliations … once, after we did, perhaps because I had kept inside the anger for his gratuitous wickedness, I cried … and he obviously believed I was pretending! I don’t even know how he could have thought such a thing … and oh well!

I arrive to the drop that broke the jar and that made me say “now it’s enough” even if I love him I want a little love for myself! While I was doing oral sex on him he was very excited with a fantasy so much so that he expressed it aloud, in practice he imagined another man who together with him penetrated me. Such a fantasy left me a little disconcerted because I love him I don’t need to think about anything else, I only need him! I would never enjoy seeing him with another girl, rather I die from jealousy! He told me that it didn’t mean that he didn’t love me but that there is a distinction between sex and love.

Then to understand how things really were, I “pretend” to understand his point of view and I tell him that maybe he’s right, that maybe I’m a bit closed because with him I conceived only the classical making love. I tell him that I would like to make this fantasy come true, and that I would have been looking for a guy in the chat! At first he refuses but with a little insistence he accepts (at that moment I would have preferred to die) and he advised me to find a young guy, better if already engaged, who was not inclined to fall in love with someone else … and coming from a different city.

Then he thought of where to do it … he didn’t know if in the car … or in some house! However at the end being a little hesitant he decided to drop it for the moment … maybe later we would have talked about it! Inside me, however, there was a huge disappointment, because I’m convinced that a man who loves would not do a similar rubbish with his woman, but not even for a joke! The fact is that he was angry with me because I didn’t have to play with his imagination and told me that I not having such fantasies I was an amorphous girl.

After two years of great love for him in which if I had been allowed, I would have given my soul for him, if, according to him, thinking only of him when we made love was an “amorphous” thing well, this was not the man I wanted at my side, because as he has often said to me “he never loved me” and certainly he does not know what true love means, I am convinced! And I am even more convinced that he was a repressed gay who for fear of the reality held me bound to him doing me an evil that he couldn’t even imagine.

I’m tired of suffering, I want someone to make me feel loved and that at least cares about me. I still want to believe in true love … I hope it exists!

I only regret having given an immense love to a guy who has never understood it, because he was too devoid of feelings to be able to perceive mine, I was simply for him “the girl with whom he was” no more and no less than many other girls! Which girl in my place would have accepted so much stress if she hadn’t been madly in love? I think certainly none … pity he never understood such things!

This is my story ended on 18/4/2014 … from that day I’m trying a new rebirth, even if we are still at the beginning and for me everything is difficult … I have to suffer long before I can smile again … also because this was for me the first big love of my life, and I really believed it! I apologize if I have been too wordy and thank all those who will want to comment on my story, the opinions are always welcome!

________________

If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-a-girl-in-love-for-two-years-with-a-repressed-gay-guy

HOMOSEXUALITY AS A GUILT-PATHOLOGY AND MARRIAGE AS A REMEDY

This post is dedicated to married gays, so I will leave aside all the considerations related to sexual orientation of guys who have a straight sex life at the couple level and having a sex life typically gay at the level of masturbation, because these considerations have an important sense only before you get married.

I will start here from the situation of married gays, as I see it through the chats with people living in this condition. In my dialogues with married gay guys of all ages, the idea that when we are young, we are very often led to underestimate homosexuality and to consider it a choice and, even worse, a reversible choice, is always present. Too many times one hears people telling that one chooses to be gay and this totally false statement creeps into the brains of the guys who, forgive me the desecrating but instructive example, consider homosexuality not as their nature, i.e. as a personal fundamental characteristic but as a kind of drug that is a bad thing in itself but that can be taken in the end, in small doses, because it is taken for granted that one can come out of it when and how one wants.

Homosexuality has nothing negative and it is not a habit that leads to addiction, such as the use of drugs but it is a reality about which it makes no sense to say: “I go out of it when I want” because being gay is not a choice. The idea coming from a religious matrix of the homosexuality as a vice that if rooted leads to an addiction, that is to a vice no longer eradicable, is still widespread and continues to produce incalculable damages, inducing gays to marriage in the belief that, in the end, with an act of will, they can also choose to be straight.

The married gays know very well how much this wrong vision of things is deleterious. Very often, in socially backward reality in which homophobia dominates, children learn from an early age to see homosexuality as a disvalue, all traditional education presupposes the heterosexuality of guys and, where there are gay guys, who are eight percent of the guys and therefore are practically everywhere, causes them to repress any gay drive through feelings of guilt.

The Catholic Church still officially has attitudes that are substantially homophobic and, in substance even if not in words, incites hatred against homosexuals. With Pope Francis the tone, at the top, has changed, but eradicating homophobia from the Church is a something that seems to be destined for failure, admitted and not granted that someone really intends to attempt it.

The attitudes of the family are often backwarded and violently repressive. I invite those who have not seen it to see a very significant French film: “Juste une question d’amour” in which parents who embody two different attitudes have to face the homosexuality of the sons. When the repression of homosexuality is so strong as to induce the guys not only to eliminate external behaviors that may make people think of homosexuality but even to fight against their own homosexual instincts at a very private level by repressing spontaneous masturbation in a gay key, it becomes unfortunately possible and concrete the possibility that a guy can think not only of forcing himself not to be gay but even to be straight.

These are forms of profound violence that completely alter and I would say completely distort the affectivity and sexuality of a gay guy, who is encouraged to create a heterosexual relationships and to cultivate it by “imitating” the attitudes of other guys; in these cases the removal of homosexuality is seen as a moral merit and heterosexual sexuality is accepted as “medicine of homosexuality”.

Behind all this, the idea of sexuality as a vice and therefore as a fault is evident. On closer inspection, it is easy to understand that where very elementary and dogmatic conceptions of nature dominate, the complexity of reality is compressed into schemes derived from pure prejudices. To think that sexuality is aimed only at procreation is an assumption of principle that is systematically contradicted at the social level and in individual behavior.

The expression “against nature” has been and is still used systematically with regard to behaviors and to the same homosexual libido. Instead of knowing what variants of human sexuality are, it is much easier to consider them as deviations “against nature” or as acquired vices, or cultural choices, more or less induced from the outside. To consider homosexuality a vice rather than a variant of human sexuality means to base the whole approach to homosexuality on totally wrong grounds.

When a guy evaluates his homosexuality as a vice against which one must resist to return to true sexuality according to nature, in fact, he takes an attempt of self-repression that results in an attempt to avoid or contain masturbation, to escape from the occasions in which homosexual instincts can be more easily reawakened, to sublimate homosexuality in affectionate friendship, and, at the end, to choose of a way without return like marriage. I report here (with the consent of the author) an email I received.

“I am writing to you with great fear because I don’t know who you are, and the fact that you are gay embarrasses me. I’m 25 years old, I have distinctly felt an interest in guys for a few years, but I don’t feel repulsed by girls, now I have a girlfriend for a few months and all in all I feel quite at ease with her, she’s very sweet and she’s not obsessed with sex like some girls that I had before, we love each other, she is not at the top of my thoughts, I sometimes let myself go to pornography and in particular gay pornography, but with my girlfriend I think that a serious relationship could also be built. I want to say that if I work hard I can do without gay porn and even without masturbation for several days and I think if I had a family I could put all these things aside to dedicate myself to my family. I feel that I’m at a turning point, because if I wanted, I could arrive to the wedding and even in a short time and my girlfriend would be very happy and even our parents, and in the end, it would be good for me, but honestly for me it’s very hard to decide because then I could not go back. I would love to get married and do away with pornography once and for all. etc., but I’m afraid of doing the biggest stupid thing in my life. There is something that makes me reflect and it is the fact that I talk with my girlfriend about everything but I could not talk about my homosexual fantasies because I think that she wouldn’t really understand the meaning of such a thing, she’s fine with me, we pamper each other with a minimum of petting but she would never understand that for me there is something else, she is convinced that homosexuality is a vice that can be overcome with good will and perhaps with the help of a good psychologist. I too, years ago, tended to give for granted all these things but lately I started to think that things are much less easy than people make them look. I asked myself many questions about my future and what I really want. Recently I met a guy at the university and I started to look at him with interest, but not only for reasons of sex, as I did before, but to look at him with emotional interest, he made me feel tenderness, I wanted to stay next to him, there was also sex, but not just sex, and for the first time I began to think that for me a love story could be possible even with a guy and maybe even more with a guy than with a girl. I don’t know anything about the gay reality, which objectively scares me but I’m not at all sure that I want to give up my private and tiny gay world to go to a wedding that honestly scares me a little because in the end it could be a real trap. But now what have I to do? My girlfriend expects the wedding, like our parents and friends, etc. etc .. I think I need someone who forces me to admit things that I now see even by myself, even if then transforming the clarity of ideas that I’m gaining into concrete actions is really difficult.”

____________

If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-homosexuality-as-a-guilt-pathology-and-marriage-as-a-remedy

THAT THIN RUBBER WALL

Hello to all, people of the forum, and sorry for the long absence from the discussions, now that I have more free time I promise to participate more diligently. Here are some of my last year reflections; I would like to know what you think about it, or if you have had similar moments with your parents.

Let’s start from this assumption: I did my coming out with my mother in June last year. I thought everything would be pretty smooth with her: she’s an open person and has lots of homosexual friends and acquaintances. Before doing this great step I consulted with a cousin of mine, who has long known of my homosexuality, to ask him how he thought my mother could take it. He claimed that there would be no problems whatsoever; the same was told to me by a friend of my mother, a person whom I have always trusted a lot and to whom I had asked for advice in order to prepare my plan.

I still remember the scene: my mother had come to see me that day in the city where I was studying. I thought of telling her everything as soon as she arrived. For months I could not stand the silence, having to bypass certain questions, even on a simple “how are you?” or “what do you do?” In a word, I couldn’t stand anymore that I couldn’t be myself in front of her. The thing had become more acute after the previous month, May 2014, when I had begun the relationship with my current boyfriend. “So,” I told myself that morning, “as soon as she gets here, I’ll tell her.” Obviously I didn’t succeed. I waited, while we were in my house, to find the right moment. Since at such moments we are always kissed by the blindfolded goddess, what I never wanted to happen happened: by accidentally rummaging in a drawer, she found an old pornographic DVD (gay) of which I didn’t even remember the existence (I thought that I hadn’t it anymore). I took it from her hands, made a thousand improvised excuses and threw the DVD away within two seconds.

The moment I was patiently preparing the ground for my coming out, this was naturally a mess. The height of misfortune was reached when, by chance, a backpack fell from the top of my closet, opening itself and letting go out a box of condoms carefully hidden by me there. As they say: so lucky! All this, as well as unexpected, also seemed tragicomic to me. On either occasion my mother didn’t make a wrinkle; nevertheless my delicate and meticulously constructed plan to introduce the discourse had gone, to put it mildly, to hell. I remember that we went out, seemingly I was the the same guy as in the morning, but inside I cursed myself, for having forgotten the DVD there and for the unfortunate coincidence of the backpack.

We went to eat out in a restaurant. And there I told her everything, between one dish and another; I didn’t use the word gay or homosexual, I didn’t have time to speak clearly. I mentioned something I wanted to tell her and after a few tentative attempts she said to me: “Are you with a boyfriend?” And I replied: “Yes”, with the sensation of throwing myself headlong into a black chasm, where I hoped to find a soft surface that would have mitigated the fall, but it was not like that.

I still remember her gaze at that moment: it was as if a wasp had stung her; in her eyes I read for a moment her pain, an unexpected pain, never imagined. After about a second she came back to her usual way of doing, but there was a touch of coldness in the voice. I realized that my predictions were wrong, that I had thrown myself down and had banged my head violently. “I would have never imagined …”, she told me. “I know how sensitive you are, but I never would have imagined.” Then she resumed with an institutional, very cold tone. “it will take me a while to metabolize. It is not easy for us. No nephews (I am an only child n.d.r.). You did well to tell me. On the other hand we have a very close relationship. Many people never say these things, for a lifetime. Don’t tell dad, he would never understand. Perhaps, with the good that he wants you, one day maybe yes… or maybe not … it’s better to avoid, I think. The soup is tasty, isn’t it? We have to go back here, they make a nice home cooking.” I swear to you that at that moment I wanted to die. It had not gone well. I had hardly seen my mother, usually so warm with everyone, taking on such a cold attitude. At the exit she told me: “Well, hug me”. But it was not a hug, or at least, not one of those I had always received, this one was certainly the coldest. Then nothing more. I was very upset.

Then in the evening I forced myself to stop thinking about it. It was my last night in the city where I had studied and lived for four years and a furious storm raged, I had seen similar rains only during the monsoons. I had greeted my mother as if nothing had happened. In the following days we talked on the phone; she seemed much quieter, even cheerful. She simply told me she wanted to talk a little better with me about the thing. Several times I threw the hook, while she and I were alone at home, when I was home for the summer. We didn’t discuss a second time about it: every time I was about to start talking about it she stopped me saying that it was not the moment and nobody said anything more.

As you can imagine, the thing left me very melancholy. You must know that in the past I had a long relationship with a girl, which ended precisely when I decided to face reality and follow the true feelings that were in me. At that time my mother was always there to ask me how my girlfriend was, when I went to visit her etc. she kept also giving me money, without my request, so I could go and see her, since we were both away from home and during the holidays we lived in different regions.

Given this past, I would have expected a quite similar attitude, at least I would have expected she would ask me how I can meet with my current boy, since we are more than a thousand miles away, I expected that she would offer me help at least sometimes. For a year nothing. I am proud and, I have to admit, I have a tendency lately to shut myself up more than in other periods of my life, I have never asked for anything. Result: economic efforts to save money and buy airline tickets, and so far no problem, there is much worse in life and this is certainly not the problem for which I write here; rather, I was grieved that I continued to take planes for a whole year, once every two months, without saying anything to her. Indeed, I lied every time. I was pretending to be in France (where I currently live) and actually I was in Italy.

In such cases you have to behave like you were a spy: you must be careful never to turn off the phone because, in the event of an unexpected call, the interlocutor should not hear the answering machine of an Italian operator rather than one French; you must be careful never to use a credit card in Italy, because movements are traceable; you must call the landlady to avoid problems to rise in the days when you are away because she could call your parent’s home in Italy; you must invent days never lived and, what is still worse, and has always been unacceptable for me , you have to lie on the phone every night, inventing imaginary stages in radio astronomy that allow only a few minutes of phone calls a day due to radio screens in proximity to the tools (yes, I also invented this). Is not it horrible to have to lie like that, moreover to your mother? And all this because I was afraid of the rubber wall that I found in front of me, not hostile but not friendly, not contrary but not favorable. And I lived and I still live with terror that my father can discover the thing (in which case the catastrophe is assured).

Last April I had resigned myself to the painful idea that in my mother’s eyes I was no longer the same; I felt less loved and, behind all the good speeches, I saw the sad truth that “the majority of parents would not want to have a gay son.” No, they would want a gay son “but” they would prefer avoid such a opportunity. Then if it happens, they show to accept it, or at least maybe they try, but … And into this “but” the figure of my mother is drowned until recently. Then, in April, precisely during one of her visits to the foreign city where I currently live, she asked me for detailed information about my boyfriend, G., offering me the support that long ago would have been the norm.

I reassured myself, and in these months my hopes have increased. Of course, not everything goes well, in the sense that the subject is rather a taboo. I don’t know if my mother will ever get to love me just because I’m homosexual, going from “it is so and I’m not pleased, but I love you the same” to “I love you just because you are homosexual and you’re happy to be, because you’ve had the courage to take the reins of your life and you have a wonderful love story with G.” Perhaps I’m claiming for too much, indeed, almost certainly, but I wonder: is it so difficult for some parents to leave aside, even in lucky cases like mine, the irrational fear dictated by years of backward education on the subject, consolidated with age? I don’t know, have you had similar experiences? Or your coming out finished unexpectedly? A great greeting to all. I promise from now on to write more on the forum!

___________

If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-that-thin-rubber-wall

GAY GUYS AND FAMILY TRAPS

Hello Project,
I send you this mail because I think it can be useful for many guys, if you want, you can publish it.

I’m a 24 year old guy, I grew up in a family that loved me, at least at the beginning. Since very young I have been routed in all ways towards heterosexuality. The idea of a girlfriend was one of my obsessions well before I started having any experience of what sex was like. I have a cousin, she is two years older than me and is an only child exactly like me. I have no male cousins, she is my only cousin. I have just one uncle, my father’s brother and my cousin’s father. Since I was very young my parents have tried everything to make me put together with my cousin, they reminded me to make her a little “gift” when it was her name day or birthday and they paid the gift, but the little gifts, since I and my cousin were about 15/16 years old, had become very important gifts, valuable watches, gold brooches and even a ring, something like an engagement ring, even if nobody used this expression.

At first I didn’t understand the meaning of all this and I felt a little flattered. We always went on holiday together, my family and hers (the only close relatives), we took a single apartment and we were together at the sea for two months. My parents have also given me a beautiful rowing canoe, naturally two-seater, my cousin and I were always canoeing, from morning to late evening, everything seemed normal. Let’s say that up to 16/17 years old the constant presence of my cousin had also made me think that basically I could fall in love with her, even though my private sexuality has always been exclusively gay.

The pressure of her parents on her produced the hoped effect, because I think she fell in love with me, but for me experiencing the pressure of my parents who assumed everything for granted was a real nightmare. Luckily my cousin is very Catholic and we can say that on the sexual side she always went on very slowly and, at least up to 19/20 years, she has never put me in great difficulty from that point of view. Then the problems started because it was clear that she was looking for a soft way to end up “there”, a bit for fun and a bit seriously she hugged me, when it was something simple and direct even if pretending I was interested at least partially, I could also let her do, in practice she was pampering me, but then, step by step she began to provoke badly trying to touch me. I stopped her once with an excuse, then another time with the thing of the religion and I began to distance myself.

She insisted, I tried to thin out the situations in which we would be alone together, but sometimes it was inevitable and it happened and there I felt really aggressive, in other words I hated her. I’m not mad at my cousin who is also a beautiful and good girl, but I don’t want to end up crushed by a perverse mechanism of family nature and I don’t even want to tell my story to anyone, she is not a stranger but the daughter of my father’s brother so, if she knew, even all my more distant relatives would know and for me such a thing is absolutely inconceivable. My business must be my own business. I know that if I don’t make a clear speech, I must shortly interrupt the relationship and it’s exactly what I want to do immediately and in the most radical way, at the cost of destroying family’s harmony.

Last week, something happened that annoyed me extremely and made me realize how hypocritical are my parents. They invited my cousin for lunch at my house. Mom prepared everything and then she and dad came out with an excuse late in the morning. My cousin arrived, my parents had advised her by telephone that they would have arrived not before eight o’clock in the evening and “then” they communicated the same information to me too. In practice I was forced to stay alone at home with my cousin and no one takes away from my head that they did it on purpose because my cousin told me that she had told my mother that I never really tried to have sex or something similar with her.

In short, my cousin, pretending to joke, this time tried badly to start something sexual with me. I rejected her drastically, she made for me a movie scene and went away slamming the door, obviously she calls my parents and tells them everything. They come home 10 minutes later (see the combination!), and they ask me what happened, I say screaming to my mother: “But do you know what did she want from me?” And my mother replies: “Well, and what’s wrong?” My mother had always been an irreducible Catholic but according to her, the fact that I had to make love with my cousin (in a situation that my mother had combined!) was an obvious thing!

My cousin I haven’t seen her for a few days now but I think they have convinced / forced her to apologize, This thing makes me consider my cousin like a puppet in the hands of parents and uncles and I think they will come back to the assault. My mother attacked me head-on and wanted to know the details, then insisted to know if I had another girl. For my parents the idea that one can be gay is absolutely inconceivable, because they think a gay goes around like a fagot. I had the naivety to insist that there wasn’t any other girl and here I have been really stupid, because now going back and invent one is very difficult. However, in one way or another I absolutely have to get rid of all these things, because I have come to hate my family that I consider an aggregate of hypocrisy and economic management. They never wondered what I could think.

Project, you can understand what kind of gay life I can live! I have to be careful about everything, in practice sometimes I would have liked to start thinking about cultivating a serious friendship with two university guys. With them I tried to study together, maybe I would not have done anything anyway, but in practice I left the game before starting because I couldn’t go anywhere. Next summer I should graduate and cannot wait to leave home. I want to change city, if I can I will go abroad. I want to go away non in order to do who knows what but to no longer see my parents who have only tried to cage me.

I don’t know if I’ll ever find a guy, maybe I will not find one but I’m prepared for this but what I want first of all is to leave home, I would just need to find a friend to chat a bit, to be myself, to stop finally pretending. I also said that I could make a nice coming out in the family disregarding everything and everyone, but I could do it only if I was no longer in my house. If I did it now it would be hell. But how do they do adult people and even culturally evolved not to have the faintest idea of gays? I also thought that many of my fears and worries could be meaningless and that maybe if I told them everything they would understand me, but I don’t think it would be that way. But now all these problems are still far away.

Now I have to understand how to defend myself from the “apology” of my cousin. In the end I think the simplest solution would be to invent a girl or maybe take my parents to a concrete suspicion of this kind. I gave the phone number to several of my female friends who call me often and I went out with them in the evening several times in a row just to let them think that I have another girl. My mother may have the first suspicions.

Project, it seems a paradoxical situation, what would you do? But things like this happen to many other guys? I would very much like to know it. Sometimes I feel really in a cage and I don’t have the courage to take a step and this, at 24, I think it’s really crazy. Maybe I’m not up to the situation, but I prefer to think that my behavior derives from the need not to expose myself. I confess to you something else, it’s the first time I’ve contacted a gay site and I’m a little worried because I don’t know what I can expect. Let’s say that I’m in total zero in the gay dimension. The address of the sender of this mail is also my msn contact (created for the occasion!). Hi Project, I would like to know what you think about.

M. P.

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BISEXUALITY WITHOUT TRAUMA

Hi Project, 
another summer is over, this blessed season in which I love to switch off from everything, especially from most of the technologies that necessarily accompany me throughout the rest of the year. Summer for me means peace, nature, tranquility. I surround myself with the closest friends with whom I share virtually every moment of the day in a sort of regenerating community experience. But now it is September 1, 2015, the summer is over and with the return to the internet I accidentally came across this site. 
 
How did I? Like many, looking for erotic stories with a gay background, but inevitably I stopped to read many of the interesting articles and contributions of those who follow you. It’s just after midnight and having left friends, returning home I decided to write to you for a number of reasons: first of all to express my appreciation for your cultural operation that is clearly distinguished by a certain carnival subculture so popular in the gay world, partly also to share my experience so as to make you participate in my perspective that inevitably distances a lot from yours, while I’m stressing anyway my respect for your conscientious approach to gay issues.
 
I would begin by talking a little about myself, my life and the evolution of my sexual sphere. My name is Mark, I’m 27, gay for 5 years. Indeed, as ironically I like to think more potential bisexual than gay. I was born in a small village in southern Italy in a large family, surrounded by four sisters of age very close to mine. My family, I would say, is traditionalist but without particular excesses beyond a bit of religious folklore that on the other hand I cannot criticize.
 
The discovery of the female world takes place about the end of the primary school, perhaps a little earlier. As for erections I distinctly remember having had them even very young, before the age of six to let you understand. But it was some physical reaction that I couldn’t explain. At the end of the primary school instead it became clear, it was the girls who provoked this mysterious phenomenon as I discovered probably watching some ballerina on television. Thus I entered the long period of healthy teenage masturbation. Every occasion was good to give me to the onanism defying any risk of being discovered by parents or sisters. Bath monopolized for hours, wake up at night to watch local TV porn channels and things of this kind. In short, that an adolescent masturbates will also be normal but certainly I had also to take a bit of precautions not to be caught in the act. Meanwhile, slowly some of my friends began to break through the female world. I didn’t consider myself beautiful, seeing now the old photos of that period instead I would say that I was a pretty nice boy. With the girls I could talk, even joke and have fun but … I wouldn’t even talk about to overcome a certain threshold. I could not really. I was just nice.
 
And while everyone grows, matures and gets engaged, I until the end of the high school I didn’t realize anything at all. Yet I liked a lot of girls and I think a lot of girls liked me! Patience, my character limits were those and I couldn’t do anything about. I go to university, I transfer to Naples, the big city. I leave the placid village and enter a new dimension. My first years are very good, I dedicate myself body and soul to the study that I’m passionate about, but I can make few friends, mostly male students always horny but always inconclusive. At that time I have some small crush too but nothing goes to port, talk and just talk.
 
I proceed in my career as a talented wanker thanks to an internet connection that is always faster. I believe that pornography is one of the most underrated themes of recent years. Although I’m neither a psychologist nor a sociologist, I believe that its influence on the construction of the sexual sphere of an entire generation is colossal and monstrous. While really every taboo is overcome by our media society, this reality, which is everyday life for many, we speak very little about and I think even scientific studies don’t care it at all.
 
But let’s get back to me. I don’t know exactly when I started but one fine day towards the end of the university I began to realize that my attention during the porn movies moved from the female figures to the male ones. For a while I began to select videos with more attention to the actors than to the actresses. Soon I switched to bisexual porn and then I joined the gay one. Now, in my head I never had the fantasy of playing the role of women. But I was beginning to feel attracted to male beauty and after the discovery of gay pornography, in which I liked to see the bodies of both guys, I projected my image more on the active partner than on the passive. In short, a substitution of the object of desire was essentially occurring in my head but with a continuity of my role during the sexual act.
 
I have never given so much importance to the loss of virginity but gradually I was always more eager to have a real sexual experience. But how? One day I decided to contact an … escort. Because today they are called so. He was a handsome boy, a couple of years younger than me who welcomed me very happy in his apartment and probably used to customers much older and wealthy (as well as repellent), asked me a really ridiculous amount of money, I would say symbolic. It must be said that actually we didn’t do much and I stole him a little time because, as I was presumed, I didn’t want to go all the way. When he started to take the condoms, I stopped him, kissed him and asked to continue our little games, almost foreplay until we both came together. Perhaps I had some scruples of conscience, perhaps fear. I cannot say.
 
At the end he asked me if we wanted to stay in touch like friends in the future but I told him what I thought, that I liked it but I had discovered this things just recently and I didn’t feel like it. I had just had my first sexual experience and even homosexual. But I still felt something else. He was the exact stereotype of the gay guy you see on TV, I definitely not. Yet I had liked him and also a lot. The first experience somehow went well.
 
Time passes, even a lot. My pornographic tastes fluctuate while in everyday life I still suffer the great charm of women. For a long time, I don’t know why, but I don’t feel any attraction for the guys I see. Sometimes I dwell on some nice guy, I think it’s nice, maybe I’d like to know him maybe kiss him but nothing more. I don’t really drool behind the guys like behind girls. Girls always give me erotic images, of a sexual nature while guys don’t. It’s a different thing, with guys it’s still pornography stuff.
 
Above all my friends, the old and new ones, I see them as friends and that’s it. I do not talk to them about my experience or about my new trend, I’ve never felt the need to tell the truth, perhaps because in any case, my way, I’ve always been a boy with great respect for everyone’s privacy. I don’t like being asked delicate questions and I do consequently with my friends. I appreciate when someone opens with me but for this I don’t think I have the right, even towards a friend, to subject him to an interrogation, even if I see that he is hiding something from me. If my friend hides something from me, he certainly has his reasons, and even more a friend should understand such things. Perhaps I’m strange but I still see things this way. However my life with women, apart from some small parenthesis, remains hanging on a nail. I have short relationships with some girls but at some point I always close.
 
Once I go to a prostitute, a beautiful girl but … Some problems during the act. With a girl with whom I had sex months ago all right, with her as beautiful as she is, there is nothing to do, but she is not surprised at all and takes it lightly. However, besides being a bad and sad thing it’s also a luxury that I cannot afford anymore.
 
Let’s say I’m a type, not a cool guy, but a nice guy, even joyful and easy-going, so I have some hope in dating sites. I throw myself on the gay dating sites. In recent years I have had several occasional meetings, always with boys of my age, always protected sex and always with the utmost respect for each other. I have tried as much as possible in such a strange (and insane) situation to keep very strange characters away. I have rarely been more than once with the same boy. This has been my way for a long time to give a purely sexual dimension to these meetings, to build a cage around it to prevent them from ending up in friendship.
 
Let me be clear, with every boy I meet, I relate from man to man, that is, with the maximum spontaneity and the maximum humanity as it comes naturally to me. Even if it was always about sex and not about love, in the before and after (but also during) I always came … how to say, spontaneously to share a nice moment and not give life to absurd scenes of porn movies of the fourth category. In fact, at least I have tried sometimes the annoying feeling of being treated not as a person but as a sex toy or something similar. Until this point of love has never been spoken of. 
On closer inspection I have always avoided it perhaps in the consciousness of being in the end a boy endowed with a certain sensitivity and fragility, for which I have always locked me up to protect myself from the danger of feeling love for another boy. A condition badly accepted perhaps more by myself than by the people who love me, thank God they are numerous, and I am sure that they would forgive me this stupid fault that is not to blame. After all, as I said at the beginning, I always have the impression of being a frustrated homosexual and a potential bisexual, simply unable to relate to people. Thinking about it, too often I find myself taking a crush indistinctly both for boys and girls.
 
The quality that I value most in a person is simplicity that is expressed with a sincere laugh and a calm heart. In fact, probably having gained my sexual experiences with guys through occasional meetings with people who often only seek sex, has reinforced in me the idea that it is possible to really build a relationship only with girls. A stupidly romantic idea and evidently deformed from my perspective.
 
This is what I think I understood by browsing the pages of your blog: there are gays that are normal. It seems stupid to say so but I realize that probably if I had started my sexual adventures on dating sites for hetero people I would have made an equally negative idea of women, but in this case I would have been wrong.
 
So thanks, Project, and good work.
Mark.
___________
If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-bisexuality-without-trauma

FROM HETERO TO BISEXUAL TO GAY

Hello Project,

it is 4.40 of December 27th 2010, an absolutely unusual time to write an email, but after spending a few hours reading the forum I decided. Actually, the input was another. Last night I had discovered the forum, I thought it was a very different thing from the usual, then I saw that there was a chat and I opened that chat. The guys welcomed me well, and above all it seemed to me a place of serious people, polite guys who talk about normal things for the pleasure of being together, a few minutes later a guy who had a nick that I remember well gp000, contacted me and we talked a bit, he is 23 years old and told me he had talked with other guys in the chat and the place seemed really serious and he told me that he would contact you. Frankly I felt a little displaced but positive, It hardly seemed credible to me to be able to find a gay environment where a guy contacts you with no other purpose than exchanging a few words. Then we talked a bit, I thought he was a great guy. I went out of the chat and I started reading the forum and I was there until 4.40. I can say that I have never seen anything like this on the net and I like it a lot, so I decided to write to you.

I’m actually a newbie in the gay world and I need to clarify some ideas because I confess that I’m a bit scared and finding a serious place for me is essential. But now I’ll explain it better.

I’m a 25 year old guy and my real problem was my so-called bisexuality. I have read some of your articles that have clarified my ideas a lot and have confirmed me in a series of convictions to which I had already arrived alone, but let’s start from the beginning.

In practice, up to 20-21 years old I never had doubts about my sexual orientation, I liked girls, only girls, I had many stories, and many also with sexual implications, I liked a lot such things, especially the idea of winning the resistance of a girl, however, with hindsight, I think I never really fell in love with a girl. That is, I was living the relationship with a girl as something only mine, she was a bit a way to prove to myself that in those things I knew how to do.

To let you understand, up to 21/22 years old I had sexual intercourses, it would be better to say I had sexual contacts with a dozen girls, with four I had complete intercourses, with the other ones just mutual masturbation, my fantasies were all straight.

Between 20 and 21 years old at a New Year party I met a girl Emma (it’s not her real name) who took me seriously and tried to build something different with me. At first it was fine, when I was talking about her I used to say “my girlfriend”, something I had not done with any of the other girls, I felt grown up, gratified, we also had sexual intercourses and things went very well. It went on like this for a few months, in the meantime I met a guy, Mark (a fantasy name), who was a couple of years older than me, I liked him, we talked often on msn, then we went out together sometimes we stayed talking until the morning. Summer came, Emma went on vacation with her parents and Mark proposed to spend a week with him in a mountain house on the Apennines.

I state that Mark is straight and that at the time I was straight too but that week was certainly the most beautiful week of my life, I felt free, appreciated by Mark, in a sense cuddled, an incredible relationship of intimacy had been created, we talked about our relationships with our girls and he understood me. The first night we stayed in separate rooms, from the second night we stayed in the same room to talk until late. I had a great time, I felt better than with Emma, with her at the end we had to get to sex, it was not bad but for her it was a fixed idea, for me no, with Mark I felt free, without obligations, and so I experienced that in fact with a guy I could have a great time, as with a girl if not even better. We also joked, played, pillow fought, made the fight, but without sexual implications, at least then I thought it was so, in fact, even if I didn’t understand it, I was falling in love with Mark.

After the vacation, when Emma came back I came back to her and in practice her company began to be a weigh for me, I noted certain underlining that I didn’t like. A lot of things didn’t seem to me really mine, at least not 100% mine. With Emma the sexual intercourses continued but the thing for me had a strange taste, it was not like before, I was listless, I tried not to get involved and she realized it, she wanted to know if I had met other girls, but I hadn’t met any girl at all. In short, I tried to please her and it was just while I was making love to her that for the first time Mark came to my mind in another way, a kind of substitution of a person, I imagined that Mark was with me. In the evening I masturbated thinking of Mark. It was the first time that it happened to me when I was thinking of a guy. The feeling was very strange, I had never done such a thing but at the same time I felt very well, I said to myself: I am bisexual, it is evident.

And here my madness began, I tried to contact Mark because I expected from him who knows what, I thought maybe he could have fallen in love with me, but the only thing I got was a dinner in four in a restaurant . He had eyes only for his girlfriend, Emma only for me and I only for him, a situation in which for the first time I found myself playing the part of the lover, but I recited it well and nobody noticed it. I didn’t know who to talk to, it was obvious that I had to forget Mark, I hadn’t even the courage to speak clearly with Emma and then I had always worked hard to look a good hetero guy, I practically imposed this behavior on myself. Every time I made love with Emma it seemed to me that I could be heterosexual, then I masturbated thinking of Mark and I thought I was bisexual, after the summer I no longer masturbated thinking about girls, for me there was only Mark.

I want to clarify something, for me there were no guys, there was only Marco and this led me to think that basically I was not gay or bisexual, because I wanted that guy only. I scrupulously avoided pornography because I would have ended up on gay pornography and it would have bothered me, what I felt for Mark I didn’t want to confuse it with pornography. I imagined a beautiful love story with Mark, but with a gay Mark able to share it, I said with a gay Mark, not a bisexual Mark, just thinking about this I had the first doubts about the fact that I would never have accepted that Mark was bisexual, gay would have been fine but bisexual no, I wouldn’t have wanted to share him with anyone.

I imagined instead that I was able to have two loves, one with Emma and one with Mark and that both were in love with me in an exclusive way, I then I hypothesized that such a thing could make sense and anyway I saw myself as a bisexual, also because we can say so, I was doing my best to be bisexual, I considered it a more acceptable thing, closer to a correct behavior, you’re in love with a girl and then just a bit with a guy, it seemed a less unusual thing. Sometimes I was tempted to masturbate thinking of Mark and to tell Emma that I didn’t feel like having sex with her, but then I forced myself to do exactly the opposite, that is not to think of Marco and make love with Emma because “it’s a normal thing”.

The situation became more and more absurd and in the end she began to ask me a lot of questions. At the beginning I answered vague things, like I’m tired, stressed and the like, then because I just couldn’t go on and I thought it would be better to break I made her understand that I felt bisexual and I could not stand her reaction, she wanted to know who had put these ideas in my head, if I had met “some of those”, I said no because first of all it was true and then I would never have brought Mark into that story because he had nothing to do with it. I was hoping it would be a good opportunity to close with Emma but it was not like that and the torture started, she wanted to know, she wanted to understand, but according to her what I told her was not true, those were all things that “some of those” had put into my head.

I tried to make Emma understand that I didn’t think it was a trivial thing at all, but she told me that I could not be gay and I told her that I didn’t feel gay but bisexual and she insisted that it was just a nonsense and that she knew me well, she started to do a bunch of flirting with me, what she had never done before, to change her voice as if it were that of a little girl, to show sexy attitudes, all things that I couldn’t bear and I told it her too, she went on for a while, then I made her understand that I didn’t feel like going ahead and she screamed at me that I was just looking for excuses to dump her because I had found another girl, for her the idea that I couldn’t be completely straight was in practice inconceivable.

All this happened between Christmas 2009 and New Year 2010. In practice since January 2010 I was alone again. I don’t hide that the first weeks were very hard, I was missing her madly, but I was not missing as a girl but as a person who could take a little care of me, I have been several times about to recall her because I really couldn’t go on, note that at the time I still felt bisexual and I even thought about starting a relationship with another girl and I went close to it but when it came to really getting involved I told myself I was going to do another stupid thing and that I had to take my time to understand. So I did nothing at all. I was alone, totally alone, my parents didn’t understand why I had left Emma and thought that I should go to a psychologist but nothing was done about it.

I didn’t know where to bump my head but I needed to understand. I began to think that basically I could use dating sites. I surfed a bit on some of these sites but the reaction was of total rejection and I would also say of depression. I told myself that I had nothing to do with those people, it was a logic that I felt completely foreign. Then I put aside the internet for months and I thought I could go to a gay association, in my city there are some, I looked for the addresses, I passed nearby there several times. I left my house with the intention of entering, then I arrived at the destination and pulled straight. I don’t feel safe, I need privacy, I understand those who make coming out but it’s not for me and then they declare themselves openly gay I should have declared bisexual, at least it was what I thought then. I was beginning to look at the guys on the street and they seemed beautiful, desirable.

This summer I was at the seaside in Puglia alone, I had proposed to look for opportunities to get experience, I was camping, I have known many guys but not even one gay. Now I say gay because I haven’t thought of a girl for at least six months and the guys camping in Puglia for me had a very strong sexual appeal that I cannot deny, but it was just fantasy. But why trying with a girl is so easy and trying with a guy is so difficult? I know why, but the result is depressing. After the holidays I would say my bisexuality is over, that is, I have closed another phase of my life but in fact I haven’t solved anything, I feel anyway a thousand fears, I’m attracted by the idea of getting to know gay guys, at least to understand how they are really, but I wouldn’t want to drive myself into bad experiences. After a somewhat depressed period, yesterday I happened to arrive on gay project and you know the rest.
Bye.
Uff25

___________

If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-from-hetero-to-bisexual-to-gay

MAYBE I AM GAY BUT I LOVE MY FORMER GIRLFRIEND

Pratoditurno
Dear Project, I am 30 years old and I just discovered that I’m gay … I almost always masturbated thinking of guys, even though having always had women and having been satisfied by them I lived it as a kind of private transgression and so I never realized that I was homosexual … I had a long story with a girl and I loved her deeply, I masturbated thinking about her or our intercourses … it excited me a lot and I wanted to have sex with her. I was thinking only of her, although often when I was alone I also masturbated with gay porn. I must say that my gay masturbation has always been and is now of a contemplative kind, in the sense that I don’t ever feel in my fantasy the desire for sex with a guy but only the desire for images of naked guys. When my ex left me, to my great regret because I was still in love, I began to feel an increasingly strong attraction towards a friend of mine, with attached crush: I quoted him without a real reason, I followed him secretly, I was jealous … but at the time I couldn’t understand what was happening to me, so I kept going for a couple of years … until I decided to try an experience with a guy. I made friends with this guy and we started to try a gay sexual experience. The excitement was very strong at the beginning, I never experienced such a thing with a woman, but then gradually it waned … and finally I realized that sex with girls is much more engaging for me, even if the body of girls doesn’t excite me as strongly as the one of guys. In short, I didn’t have many answers … rather I have to say that the male body also made me a little repulsion … and I didn’t like the penis in any way. But the strong instinct to go with a man is there and I cannot deny it. After a few months I met again my ex and we had sex in a very engaging way. The attraction was there and I even thought for a moment that I was in love with her again, but then the premises were not there to get back together and we said goodbye. After that time I had other meetings with some guys and at the end, apart from the initial excitement, as usual I came back to have doubts about the fact that I really liked guys. Until a few weeks ago … when another friend, who attracted me so much, got engaged with a girl … since then I realized that in practice only the guys attract me, even if women have something that strikes me … sometimes sexual attraction, but less than what I experience for the guys. So I realized I was fundamentally gay … maybe a flexible gay man, who can even make love with girls if he’s in love, but anyway gay. I realized that in the end I could very well fall in love with a guy and make a story together, even if I don’t like it … I don’t want to be gay but I feel very strong pushes toward guys when I’m close to nice guys. Then when I think back to the exciting moments with my ex I think I’m straight … but actually my overwhelming sexuality is gay, even if I refuse to live it. I had tried to hear some guys to attend them seriously but then I changed my mind … I mean I’m in a big confusion. I cannot think of anything else, I just came out a nervous breakdown. Please … advise me what to do … and tell me what you think of all this ..
 
Alyosha
I leave Project the honor of answering on the subject, he is a master in this kind of analysis. I immediately anticipate that for what you write I don’t think there is any clear homosexuality, it is quite clear that a person who feels for years an emotional and sexual drive toward girls certainly is not a gay. Instead, you belong to that gray area that is hard to define within categories that have lied to us for centuries: building a family relationship with a woman and having relationships with men were much more common and “natural” practices than what is believed, and are still now in many “masculine” contexts (of those of the “male as a male”). I don’t think right now you need to define yourself in some way to understand what you have to do, indeed probably closing the circle too quickly now and draw the sums also hurts, because now you discard something that sooner or later will return from the window, because women attract you at least as gays do if not even much. What to do? Well, in the meantime, live your homosexual moment! You’ll be a bit terrified on the side of prevention, but it will not hurt you, you started as a rocket and you may find yourself very unprepared to manage a homosexual relationship. I tell you it from experience, since I have a story very similar to yours. In the beginning, projecting hetero categories on the gay world is very simple but you risk remaining badly burned. The story with your ex is over, it’s over after years, you’ve seen each other again, you’ve had sex and all this goes completely into the background, while it seems rather like the triggering event. You should first ask yourself if it’s over for real since at the first useful opportunity you two make sparks when you meet each other again. If you decide it’s over, close this relationship definitely before starting new stories with other people. From this point of view if it is a men rather than a women, it only complicates matters, so you are even more obliged to close the relationship with your ex. Try to stay alone just a little bit, a story like that isn’t easy to digest right away. Only then I would return to the question of sexuality, otherwise the risk is that the motivation to leave your ex, pushes the accelerator on the issue of sexuality, not allowing you a clear evaluation. The drives and desires must be listened to, not incarcerated, and bisexuality is in many ways more disarming than homosexuality, because it conflicts with another dogma of western society, which is that of monogamy, dogma if possible more stringent than that according to which male and male cannot fit together. It is already difficult to manage the transition from heterosexual to homosexual life, you can imagine how difficult can be becoming aware of being bisexual. How do you manage it? How can you be labeled? You will be a hetero-curious for the straight people and a repressed gay  for gays, in short it is not exactly like having a walk! : lol :. Don’t worry, learn to understand what you are for yourself and later you will think about what you are for others. You will never be gay as gay people who have never had relationships with women, I can anticipate this, because it is the feeling that I live. I lived a hetero life for 30 years and this famous gay world, including the forum from which you read me, I always watch it a little surprised and a bit shy. There are many things I don’t understand at all, such as the obsessive tendency to reduce everything to the issue of sexuality. Which is a little what you’re doing too. It seems that all the problems of gays are in the fact of being gay. Hetero people are all happy, because they have the female and don’t have any couple problem, neither problems relating to the other sex or tensions between strong sexuality and desire of monogamy, and so on. etc.. So are you sure that if the guy you flirted with was a woman, would you not stay the same with the thorn in the side? Do you like more your ex or the new girl with whom you only have a sexual involvement? Don’t you think that setting the question in this way in the meantime you would solve the problem of understanding what you really feel for your ex? If you also like males you don’t have to decide how much you like them, but accept this fact and learn how to live with it in the right and healthiest way for you. Learn to know the gay world, taste it little by little, without getting burned or worse poisoned.
 
Project
First of all, I welcome you to the Forum and I hope it will be useful. I thank Aliosha for his speech, which seems to clarify the essential points of the matter and which I share. I limit myself to an analysis from a strictly gay point of view. You start with a statement: “I just discovered that I’m gay”, but conclude by saying “I’m in a big confusion .”  You bring some arguments that should confirm the idea of being gay: “I almost always masturbated thinking of guys”, where the “almost” means that even in the masturbation there is a hetero component. About the time you were with your girlfriend, you say, “when I was alone I also masturbated with gay porn .” You affirm that “the strong instinct to go with a man is there”. About gay affectivity, which is an essential component of being gay, you say: “I began to feel an increasingly strong attraction towards a friend of mine, with attached crush: I quoted him without a real reason, I followed him secretly, I was jealous” but you don’t talk of love with this guy. The homosexual falling in love for you is not a real experience but a possible hypothesis, after all unwanted: “I could very well fall in love with a guy and make a story together, even if I don’t like it … I don’t want to be gay but I feel very strong pushes toward guys when I’m near nice guys.” When you talk about guys you don’t talk about love but about friendship and sexual contact with a guy is seen in strictly subjective terms and not as a couple, as an experience that you can “try”: “I made friends with this guy and we started to try a gay sexual experience.” From here you get a partial and flexible idea of homosexuality: “So I realized I was fundamentally gay … maybe a flexible gay man, who can even make love with girls if he’s in love, but anyway gay.” “but actually my overwhelming sexuality is gay, even if I refuse to live it.” The element of which I feel the lack in your description of homosexuality is the affective one, it is the falling in love with a guy. I emphasize that a gay guy of your age generally has lived his experiences not only on a sexual level but especially on an emotional level, and often these experiences are not easy, because they involve the idea of going out of oneself and of “loving” a guy, a real guy, not the protagonist of a video, a true guy, with all his weaknesses and all his contradictions. The experience of gay falling in love is not only and not even primarily a sexual experience, it is the experience of a deep affective relationship in which, as a rule, almost nothing goes as planned and in the end the relationship holds only if there it is at the base a deep feeling, with all its sexual values, of course, but in no case reducible only to a sexual experience. For you, at 30, the idea of falling in love with a guy is just a hypothesis that has never happened. I often see young guys “madly” in love with their friend, maybe even straight, and totally transported by this feeling in which the idea of sexual experience is just the last of the thoughts. In the things you say the gay affective dimension is almost completely missing. You’ve experienced gay masturbation as a kind of “private transgression” but you’ve never experienced a gay falling in love and when you stop to reflect specifically on gay sexuality you say, “the male body also made me a little bit repulsive … and I did not like the penis in any way. “These expressions are definitely irreconcilable with the idea of only sexual homosexuality. But let’s get on the ethereal side. You say you have “always had women and having been satisfied by them” and shortly after: “I had a long story with a girl and I loved her deeply, I masturbated thinking about her or our relationships … it excited me a lot and I wanted to make continuous sex. I was thinking only of her. . . “Here you speak explicitly of love and the sexual element integrates perfectly not the affective one. Not only that, but a gay parenthesis did not remove you from heterosexuality: “When my ex left me, to my great regret because I was still in love. . . “; “After a bit ‘of months I resented my ex and we had sex, very nice. The attraction was there and I even thought for a moment that I was in love with her again. “And here again you talk about falling in love and not just about sex. And when you limit yourself to just the sexual aspect, write: “when I think back to the exciting moments with my ex I think I’m straight.” The picture is not that of a gay, or rather a 100% gay, who is not interested in girls and who “falls in love” with boys. The emotional dimension is essentially hetero. In such a situation, looking for a relationship of gay couple based only on sexual attraction means exposing yourself to the risk of big disappointments, because, beyond what people think, in the gay field (I speak of the vast majority of undeclared gays ) affectivity is absolutely fundamental. Among gays, as among ethereal, the couples who hold are those that have a deep emotional relationship. For a gay in the vast majority of cases, behind the sex there is a very strong emotional request. Among other things, if you have no experience of the gay reality it is good to go there very much with the feet of lead because the risk of sexually transmitted diseases and in particular of AIDS exists and so, therefore, always and in any case, maximum caution! We try to narrow the field: it is obvious that the categories have a very relative value, but if we have to use one, I would call bisexuality into question, but with not small reserves, because to speak properly of bisexuality we should find not only, also if in a different proportion, both gay and hetero masturbation, but also forms of falling in love both gay and hetero are substantially similar, that is, with similar affective involvements. I add one thing: the guys who, like you, have had a non-superficial and gratifying experience of heterosexual sexuality, tend to transpose their hetero sexual behaviors in an almost automatic way, which often creates misunderstandings and difficulties. Just an example: a boy used to heterosexual sexuality and comforted by the vision of gay porn, is led to think that anal penetration is the fundamental element of gay sexuality, something far from reality. I wonder, then, how can you understand the meaning of gay sexuality, which is the sexuality of the like and not that of the complementary, a boy who says: “the male body also made me a little repulsion … and I didn’t like the penis in any way.” I add something, it happens also to 100% true gays to have relationships with girls, in the nineteenth century it was common. I don’t believe that you are in this condition at all. Raffalovich in 1896 described with these expressions the relationships of true homosexuals with women: “a forcing, something essentially “non-sexual”, an effort of the will that is a true violence against the free will, in essence a form of onanism incapable of leaving memories.” It is clear that your point of view towards heterosexual sexuality is not the one typical of 100% gay guys. In essence I would go very cautious before “trying” a relationship with a guy (an expression that a true gay would never use). I add another thing: the problem of bisexual guys is not in accepting their gay side, but in the fact that a couple’s life, hetero or gay, requires a form of exclusivity. For a gay to form a stable gay couple can be deeply stabilizing and rewarding, for a bisexual it means giving up the other half of the sky and the desire of the other half of the sky manifests itself particularly strong when a couple relationship excludes it.
 
Pratoditurno
I thank you for your very deep analysis … You’re right about everything, labels are not needed but if you really need to use one I’ll be a predominantly straight bisexual. On the other hand, sexuality is a very complex thing consisting of several dimensions and we are not necessarily on the same position for each of these dimensions.
PROJECT: You really have a great gift. You understood exactly how I’m. In fact, when you say that my gay sexual experience was only “subjective” you tell the truth, because not only I see the male as a friend (and in fact my partners were first of all friends and then also partners) but the experience I build with them is unidirectional, in the sense that I like to get involved but never give pleasure to my partner. A bit as if the guy was just “a toy” and not a person … and in fact this fits perfectly with all your speech. It’s as if I wanted a kind of inflatable doll to use it as I want, ending up just masturbating only by looking at it. I say this because in all my gay experiences (if so we can call them), after an initial excitement, I immediately begin to feel bored and, in addition to a strong repulsion for what I have done, I cannot even ejaculate … I have to ejaculate endeavoring hard every time. Or I don’t ejaculate at all. On the other hand, I have always noticed that my partners manifested a strong interest in the penis and a great propensity to have an orgasm in the presence of another male. So I wondered if maybe I was having a problem or if I had to stop with the males … because masturbating or doing a fellatio to a man it’s something that not only I don’t like, but provokes in me a feeling of repulsion  … and having an anal intercourse, for me, is like masturbating alone … nothing as involving as with a woman. Among other things, if I get excited thinking about a woman and after a little think back to a man this one not only doesn’t attract me anymore, but also makes me feel a little repulsion. In short, considering these things I have just written and adding, as you point out, that I feel guys only as friends and I never fell in love with them (for 27 years I have not even felt the “weight” of this masturbation in a gay key, as if it was nothing at all) I think that it makes no sense to delude a gay guy proposing a date and then leave him after a while because it is not for me … Indeed, as Alyosha says, I will stay good alone for a while, trying to calm me down. My real problem is that it’s been a long time since I’ve been with a woman, although I’m in constant search (in 3 years I have heard dozens of women, but these days it’s really difficult to find one to go out with you … ). Let me know what you think of these last things. Thanks so much!!! I will always be grateful to you.
 
Alyosha
“My real problem is that it’s been a long time since I’ve been with a woman, although I’m in constant search (in 3 years I have heard dozens of women, but these days it’s really difficult to find one to go out with you … )”
Well you have to tell your gay friends  such tings! They are all convinced that the problem of finding a suitable partner is just theirs: lol: Ah how much would do well to compare their problems with those of hetero guys, they would find they have a lot more problems in common than they think …
 
Project
Well, frankly, I think your second post is so explicit that there’s no need for any explanation. But I would like to draw attention to the fact that in a couple relationship, be it hetero or gay, what really matters it is not having sex but loving each other, and they are two different levels. I recently followed the story of two guys, one with a job and the other unemployed, and this was an element of extreme stress for the unemployed guy. His partner was close to him from an operational point of view, the search for work they did it in two and among them, even if there were economic problems, because living in two with only one salary and in addition low was objectively difficult, but there are never been couple problems. Then the unemployed guy found a job but in conditions of great discomfort, he had a boss who exploited him and paid him if and when he wanted. The guy returned home humiliated and depressed and his companion encouraged him to resign and to try again. Finally another work came out, not exciting at the economic level but quiet and in the midst of quiet people. The couple life of these two guys was the safety valve that allowed them to overcome a crisis that was in danger of being truly destructive. The guy who was looking for work told me: “I felt calm, when I got home I knew that he was waiting for me and he loved me and that once the door was closed, all the bad things remained outside and inside we were only us. You don’t imagine the feeling of tenderness, in two on the sofa, closed in the blanket (at home there is a heating that doesn’t work at all) watching TV, I was really happy!” This story is the story of two guys but it could very well be the story of a straight couple. Among these guys there was also sex but there was not only sex and they tried to see themselves each one with the other’s eyes. I mean that sex is a component of the emotional life and it is not even the most important. The sex lived “with love” is a beautiful thing, lived without love is a form of selfishness that can never give a deep gratification.
 
Geographer
Pratoditurno wrote: “You’re right about everything, labels are not needed but if you really need to use one I’ll be a predominantly straight bisexual. On the other hand, sexuality is a very complex thing consisting of several dimensions and we are not necessarily on the same position for each of these dimensions.”
In this forum, many know how I think about bisexuality. Honestly, I don’t believe in bisexuality. I have often heard of bisexual guys, who in the end had a preponderant interest in the same sex and were hiding behind the fact that sometimes they attended a girl or the women’s body didn’t make them sick. I am a homosexual, yet women don’t disgust me, their body simply doesn’t excite me. In fact, I often think of a charming, beautiful woman, I contemplate her as well but, I mean, it stops there. And the same could very well be said for a straight guy towards another guy (although this is in a sense banned because of social taboos). Pratoditurno, if you had I been 20 years old maybe I would have been more understanding and less severe, on the other hand you would still have been a kid. But you’re 30, you’re a man now. You should have a clear idea of who you are. If you had been 60 years old, I would have avoided to point out the matter because probably you would have internalized some constructions of the past that absolutely forbid homosexuality, and every so often enter the forum men of a mature age who tell how they have experienced the thing badly. But in your case it’s different, you’re adult and vaccinated, young but not too much and I don’t think that at 30 you can be burden with the same homophobic ideologies that have afflicted a sixty year old or that you can have the same insecurity of a boy. I looked at the Project response, which I don’t agree with. And here the risk is that maybe you can stay serene behind the word “bisexual”, maybe in a sense deluding yourself that you can safely spend the rest of your life with a woman. Let me be clear that I have no hatred towards bisexuals, and I’m the first to think that it is really sad to have to hide behind labels that should, in a sense, regulate our lives according to certain criteria. But you yourself tell how your sexual fantasies are predominantly homo, I think that once said this, everything is said. It is obvious that then, when we speak of real meetings (clearly homosexual), we detach ourselves from fantasies / abstractions, and we must clash with reality. So in that case the erection is less, maybe there is even a little less excitement or anything else simply because when you masturbate you are alone and you have complete knowledge of your body, with which you have confidence. The moment you have sex with another person, it means that two people have to relate to each other, and you understand that it is not easy. We are detached from that abstract sexuality and relate to one that is concrete and with which we don’t have the same confidence as with masturbation, it is obvious that as a result the erection cannot last or partners are less close-knit. Mutual harmony is something that is acquired gradually, the same gradualness that you have conquered when you tell yourself that you can make love with your ex. Then, Pratoditurno, let me say one thing: referring back to what I told you at the beginning, being homosexual doesn’t mean that you cannot recognize a beautiful woman. A homosexual is not an impotent man with women, he can really make love with a woman. He simply doesn’t like it because making love with a woman doesn’t fit to his nature. Then maybe you will be in love with your ex-girlfriend, I don’t doubt this, but I would say that it is a love born according to the canons that society has built for you and to which you have adapted. When I was a child (I think I was 14), I fell in love with little girls too, then I gradually became aware and now I wouldn’t be able to fall in love with a girl. The best thing for me would be to go out with a guy, without the meeting having any sexual end, simply for a knowledge. Unfortunately I know it’s difficult because in the mud of these applications and chats (which I find really squalid, I wonder when they will make some cleaner applications) is full of people absolutely not recommendable, you need to do a great skimming and then maybe you could find someone, but this is possible only if you live in big cities. But from what you write you don’t have such problem, since you say that you have had several opportunities to meet young people, so I assume that you don’t live in a village outside the world. You yourself tell me that your prevalent sexuality is gay, I think you answered yourself. And do you know what I tell you? That a homosexual person can safely live a peaceful life, with friends, with job ambitions and so on. The fact that you are homosexual doesn’t mean that you have to live a life different from that of a straight man. There are no “gay lives” and “hetero lives” because it seems to me that this is your fear. A gay man is simply a man who falls in love emotionally and sexually with other men, stop.
In any case, in my opinion, you can only do well a happy life as homosexual in cities that are not too small, absolutely out of the family, because if you still live at home with mom and dad then it is impossible (I still speak for me,
I will never tell my parents about my homosexuality, then maybe there are more open parents but in short, it is not so frequent). But I think that here you are running too much, you still seem little accepted and I am already talking about this, but the essence of my speech is that having this fear of being homosexual nowadays is just anachronistic, especially if you are thirty and independent. Live your life without paranoia, and remember that the life is only one.
 
Pratoditurno
My dear Geographer, I thank you for your opinion, that I respect, but I don’t agree with. I don’t agree certainly not because I want to be heterosexual at all costs when it’s clear that I’m not, but because, as you could read, I’m not even gay. If you deny the existence of bisexuality, with all its nuances, you deny decades of studies and progress on human sexuality, which is an extremely complex subject. Many gays, who shared your opinion, made me your own speech, but if you think about it, these are just speculations. You say that heterosexual love was suggested only by external conditioning and that I did sex just because I’m a man and therefore I’m not impotent. But how many of these gays, including you, have experienced a deep love for a woman? How many, for years, only wanted her, thought only of her and every day of their life at all hours had it hard thinking of making love with her? How many have dreamed every day to marry her? How many have masturbated thinking about her or sex with her? To how many of them continually surfaced images of her naked during masturbation? And then: how many of these have only contemplative fantasies about males, but then, in practice, they don’t like sex between men? Here, as you see, those of many gays are just words but are not justified by practice. If these gays had tried these and many other things they would not think so. I’m not saying that it is impossible that one day, after many attempts, I will find a gay love, nobody can tell it. Nobody! But I don’t think that being as rigid as you are, when everyone knows that bisexuality exists, it’s good for something, and even less to reassure me. I’m not a homosexual like you, just as you you’re not like another gay, etc. etc., it is all subjective.
A greeting.
__________
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ANTI-GAY THERAPY

Hi Project, 
do you still remember me? Probably not, I have not called you for a long time, practically since the beginning of February. In February we chatted on skype a couple of times, I’m 23, Lombard. I remind you that we also talked about the fact that I was going to graduate in Engineering, but this does not tell you much. There is one thing that can help you remember: we only talked about girls, it was my fixed idea. 
The second time you told me things that bothered me and I closed the chat and, I must say, I felt really bad. It seemed to me that you wanted to remind me that for me girls were a way to escape reality. Your speech seemed to me very stupid. After I closed the chat I sent you loudly to hell and so I felt happy. What happened next? I told myself: Project is a fool and doesn’t understand that I am 100% straight! And I didn’t even know why you were looking at details that were a little scabrous of which, among other things, I had spoken to you. It’s not that we cannot talk about these topics, but it didn’t seem to me such a decisive thing at all. 
What you were saying really bothered me. I didn’t call you anymore, but not only, a bit for reaction, I put my own commitment to woo a girl, frankly I thought she wouldn’t accept and that everything would end with just a little courtship so, just to do, but it was not like that at all. She fell in love with me and I went ahead, we had sex more than sometimes. I did it, no problem, erection ok, and everything. She was very happy, me less. The first time I didn’t even notice my lack of participation, after all it seemed exciting. We went ahead. One day she calls me and tells me she thinks she’s pregnant. 
I was a little excited, because, you know, the idea of a child at my age is beautiful, but I was a little frightened because I didn’t love her. Two days of delay and I started to feel panic, and she didn’t know what to do and she was very nervous. Then the answer came and it was a false alarm! At that moment I felt a lot lighter, but also a little disappointed. Since then we have always made love with condoms, so there was no risk of pregnancy. We arrived at a pace that we did it even three times a week and even more, always everything was technically perfect, but I felt strange and I started to see it as a sort of duty. I told myself that I was tired, stressed, that it was becoming a habit. When we were in bed I had an erection, etc. etc. but on other occasions, thinking of her I was neither hot nor cold. 
Little by little, the situation has become such that she thought I was deeply in love with her and she wanted me to tell nice things every moment, things that in reality didn’t come spontaneously, and sometimes I couldn’t stand her, especially when she made me proposals that, according to her, I would have liked a lot. Note that throughout this period I didn’t have a boyfriend and I didn’t even think about it and didn’t even masturbate because the sex I was doing with her was enough for me. So I lived with her all my sexuality, but I couldn’t tell her: look, when we are together there is something that doesn’t work, because everything actually seemed to work. 
In mid-May I go for an internship in a company and I know a 25-year-old guy. he strikes me, but I don’t consider him as something too much important. My girlfriend offers me a weekend together and I say no, for the first time. The following week I’m looking for excuses and I don’t make love with my girlfriend, in fact I don’t think of her, I think only of the 25 year old guy, and even just thinking of him, “it stands up” and I don’t feel upset at all. In the week when I was not with my girlfriend, practically since Monday I started to masturbate thinking of the 25 year old guy. 
So, dear Project, you have come into my mind, I thought maybe you were not really that stupid, but I thought also that if I had started making love with my girlfriend all the gay fantasies would have gone away. With a great effort of will I forced myself to return to make love with my girlfriend. She pampered me in all ways. Erection yes, but not convinced. She looks at me a little disappointed and begins the story: “But it’s my fault? What have I done? But don’t you like me anymore?” In short, a terrible situation, incredibly embarrassing. I could not stand her appreciation of my penis. At one point the annoyance became such that I dressed and I left. I thought that from certain situations, which are a bit like traps, you must also get out without thinking too much, since you enter into them playing. 
She calls me on the phone, I don’t answer, she calls me for the second time, in the end I have to answer, she tells me that there isn’t any problem, that the next time will be better. But I said to myself: “I don’t want any next time. And now how can I discharge this girl?” I sent her to the devil without hesitation, but she had now entered the part of the girl who has to save her boyfriend and wanted to understand “why”. But how can you tell the girl that you put almost pregnant that you don’t really love her, you don’t want her and instead you think about a guy a thousand times a day? They were days of hell, I didn’t know what to do, to get rid of her I could tell her I was gay, but with her mentality it would have been worse, because she was convinced she would be able to take any gay to bed. In fact with me she was successful! But only because the idiot was me and also the asshole because in fact I used her as an anti-gay therapy. 
But I did not want to tell her that I was gay, now it was a certainty for me, but to talk about it with her was really impossible! I know it’s a malice but it’s like that. So I told her a huge lie, I told her that I had been with another girl that week and that I didn’t feel like being with her anymore. I felt a monster in telling a similar lie, but I had to go out of the situation anyway. There were hours of recriminations, then dozens of text messages to which I never replied and then she sent me a definitive one: “If you don’t answer me I will not call you anymore!” I didn’t expect any better and It was a moment of enormous relief (I didn’t hear her anymore). 
My 25-year-old guy didn’t have a girlfriend but, from the way he talked about women, more straight he could not be. What does it mean when a 100% hetero does not stay with a girl? In my ingenuity of gay neophyte it meant that the hetero was not so hetero! And then, with a lot of discretion (it was the first time that I was courting a guy) I started going after him. The thing ended almost immediately, he used expressions about a supposedly gay guy that I didn’t like at all. I didn’t look for him anymore, he kept looking for me for a while, then he got tired, luckily! I don’t want to fall in love with a straight guy! 
In practice I was alone again, but better alone than with my girlfriend or with an idiot like the 25 year old guy. Project, it’s ok that you have a certain practice of gay things, but how the hell did you understand that it would end this way? But I come back to me. So the next day I joined the gym and it’s actually a place where I feel great, a bit because, well, you certainly understood, and a little because in an environment like that, all male, I feel just fine, the sexual temptations are there but it is also nice when we are together only on a generic level. They are guys very ok! 
Now I cannot even understand how I felt hetero for years. If I think that practically a little more than a month ago I was making love with my girlfriend every other day, I feel absurd. But how didn’t I realize it before? There were a lot of the so-called significant signals and we had talked about a lot, I thought: “if the sky is cloudy it may rain a little” and instead it was a storm. I gay !!! My God, but how is it possible? But it’s like that! Project, if you want to publish this mail up to this point you can put it in the forum (by the way, congratulations for the forum! It’s a smart thing! And has grown a lot!) But from here on the mail is just for you, because I have other things to ask but they are too personal and on the other hand I cannot talk about it with anyone. [omissis]. And now I salute you otherwise to read this email it will take three hours. If you forgot it, my contact is [omissis].

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A hug, Project! I’ll call you soon!
__________
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