GAY GUYS WHO HAVE A GIRLFRIEND

Hello Project,
I feel a little embarrassed to send you an email but the doubts are so many and I have to try to find answers because I don’t know who to turn to.
 
I’m 16 and a half years old. For more than a year I started to have doubts about my sexual orientation. I’m not afraid of being gay and if I’m gay I do not think I would have big problems with my family. My parents love me, probably nothing would change.
 
I started to masturbate at 13 and discovered masturbation by myself, without anyone’s suggestions. I did very little to understand that it was sex and that I was sexually developed. Before, for me, sexuality didn’t even exist, or rather there was sympathy for other guys and girls, but I didn’t really know what genital sexuality was.
 
At first, masturbation was just a pleasant physical fact, an interesting discovery by which I felt even more adult, but there was no real bond with sexual fantasies. Just a while later, between 14 and 15, came true sexual fantasies, and were all related to a guy, my teammate with whom I was training two afternoons a week.
 
At that time I played sports, although with many limits and went to the gym with a group of other guys and a coach. We had spaces and times dedicated to us, because we were still too young and were not allowed to enter the locker rooms when the gym was crowded by adults. In the locker room however we were alone, the coach was almost never there, but things were quick and I had never had sex fantasies of any kind, but, as I said, from 14 and a half, fantasies have come and with these also embarrassment because I was always about to get a hard-on and had to make great efforts to control it.
 
The gym has become a very important thing for me, I counted down the time missing to the next training and my masturbations were all related to what I saw in the locker room.
 
But then doubts have begun. I saw that the other guys took things completely differently, without any embarrassment and without any real interest. I quickly understood that what happened to me meant that I was gay.
 
In the beginning, this thing disturbed me a bit, but then, in a few days, I told myself that it had nothing to do with pathology and I overcome the problem. I have to say that I’ve learned at home the idea that being gay is not a disease, I learned it from my parents who have gay friends and defend their friends from stupid gossip of various kinds. Obviously from this point of view I was lucky. In practice, I realized I was gay and it did not make me any problem.
 
In a sense, my story matches the classic proceedings of gay recognition and acceptation described in your book.
 
When I was 15 years old, however, I found myself in situations that I had never taken into account. A girl, my schoolmate, began to show interest in me and I was grateful for it, not just because having a girl put me in a more adult position with my friends, but because with that girl I was fine, it was nice to talk to her.
 
She called me on the phone and we talked for hours, we joked about everything, we often went out together in the afternoon, me and her, without other people, in short I also started to have sexual reactions. I got hard-ons when she leaned on me, when she caressed my hand, and so on, slowly, but I must say, also pleasantly, we came to kiss each other, what I never imagined before.
 
The kisses were not bad, the hugs still better, so much that I started thinking that maybe I was falling in love with that girl, but something didn’t fit: I, gay, in love with a girl? Or maybe I was not gay? Now I keep going out with that girl and she calls me on the phone every day, I keep on getting hard-ons when we kiss or there’s a little direct physical contact, which is very common now. I tried to masturbate sexually thinking about that girl but the results were disappointing and then did some other doubts start.
 
In fact, that girl doesn’t attract me sexually, sometimes I think in a few years, I might also have a sexual relationship with her, but that’s what I think in theory because I never made sexual fantasies about her. It seems a disagreeable behavior, but I see her in the early afternoon and she, or probably the situation, excites me a bit, then later in the afternoon I go to the gym and when I come back home I masturbate always and only thinking of the guys I see in the gym, however, Project, I react sexually even with the girl and this should not happen, or maybe I didn’t understand how these things work.
 
My friends don’t react at all sexually with the boys, that is, they don’t react in situations that are very exciting for me. If I understand, a gay should not react with a girl, or maybe I’m a bit bisexual? This would create some problems because I could not have a really satisfying couple life.
 
Then there are a number of questions I would like to ask you:
(1) Do you think I should try with a girl?
(2) Do you think I am at least a bit bisexual?
(3) Do you think I hurt that girl staying with her because perhaps I deceive her?
 
I look forward to your answers, I would also like to know what the boys of the forum think.
Thanks. Manuel
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Hello Manuel, I’m not a doctor nor a psychologist but I deal with gay people for many years. You know that there are also gay guys who get married and have children, these guys have a heterosexual life with their wives that might seem normal, and often the wives are not even aware of having a gay husband. This means that a gay may well have sex with a woman and can even do it habitually. Being gay is not a question related to what is objectively done within a couple relationship, being gay is a matter of desire.
 
There are married gay men who have never had any sexual contact with a man and live a heterosexual life that has all the appearance of normality, but those married gays have a masturbation totally related to gay sexual fantasies. The object of their spontaneous sexual desire are not the wives but the guys who populate their sexual fantasies.
 
When couple sex behaviors are typically heterosexual but coexist with masturbation with exclusively gay fantasies, the true spontaneous sexual orientation is gay. Here bisexuality has nothing to do; a bisexual experiences real forms of sexual and emotional love, both for boys and girls. Keep in mind that of course a guy can really get a hard-on because he is in a situation of very strong intimacy with a girl, but when these experiences are soon forgotten and masturbation remains with gay fantasies, heterosexuality is a very unlikely hypothesis.
 
(1) Should you try with a girlfriend? So, in general, there is nothing that “must” be done and the only sensible behaviors are the spontaneous ones. If going with a girl is the fruit of a decision, that is, a way to test yourself, a test to evaluate your reactions when facing that girl, we are already out of the field of true sexuality. I would say that the very use of the verb “try” indicates that it is essentially a test that would be depressing both for you and for your girlfriend.
 
(2) I would exclude at all that you are bisexual, in your post there is nothing suggesting bisexuality.
 
(3) As to the fact that you are deluding that girl, I think it’s a fairly realistic hypothesis. There are girls who cultivate male friendships without any sexual purpose and have gay friends with whom they fully agree, but it is certainly not the general rule. And then the relationship you have with that girl does not have the typical features of a friendship. Frankly, I think she is very likely to consider you as her boyfriend and to expect you to behave sooner or later coherently with that role. I understand that the company of that girl may be pleasing, but your relationship might be based on a misunderstanding, and if so, it would be better to speak clearly, if possible, or keep away not to fuel further illusions.
Project
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GAYS AND RELATIONSHIPS WITH WOMEN

I would like to try to illustrate how women fallen in love with gay guys are trying to cope with the situation.

Below, with the author’s approval, I quote an email of a woman who has realized that her boyfriend had behaviors that are not typically straight.

“I’m writing to you because I need to clarify my ideas a bit, or maybe because I need to talk to someone.

I am a 25 year old girl and I fell in love with a guy a year older. He is a very nice and very sweet guy. I had previously been with other guys but a bit snooty and full of self and sometimes I was nervous, I thought that with such types I would never agree, then I found him and it was a completely different thing, he listened to me, talked a lot with me, behaving differently from other guys, being a friend, not hitting on me, and even if it seems absurd, I liked this behavior a lot. We have become intimate friends, let’s say so, so much cuddle some kissing but of tenderness, not of passion, almost it wasn’t not real to me.

He never talked about himself, but made me talk, I did not mind this at first. We met every day but I did not know if he had a girl (obviously no) or had had one before, it seemed that these topics did not exist. Then I tried to make the first step to loosen him up a bit, I do not like the expression but, in short, it was not just a friendship for me, and there I saw his fear, I did the math and I thought that he could be gay but I did not say anything to him.

With the passing of months we have known each other better and I even offered him to go live together, and in the end he told me that he was gay. I told him stupidly that it would not make any difference to me and that we had to live together, because I wanted to stay with him anyway, but he looked at me and said, “Silvia, do not get angry, but a gay guy can only be good with another guy.”

After this talk I felt very ridiculed, I wanted to get away from him because I interpreted what he had told me as a rejection, but I could not, I continued to see him, to console him when he was melancholic but he began keeping to himself more and more. I knew from other people that he probably had found a guy but I had not seen him for a long time and I resigned to the idea of not hearing him anymore. After experiencing the story with him, I think I will not fall in love with another guy, I’m stupid, I know, it makes no sense to fall in love with someone who doesn’t want you because he’s gay, but that’s exactly what happened to me.

Do you think that I can recover some relationship with him, I say just like a friend, of course, or do you think that he prefers to stay away? For me, if he has a boyfriend, is fine anyway, that would not create any problems, but maybe I’m still dreaming like a stupid woman, I think I don’t understand what kind of relationship a gay guy can have with a woman, that is, I understand it, but I do not want to understand it, I know that I still see him too much in the straight way to get along with him.”

This is a typical mail of a woman in love with a gay guy but of a woman really aware of reality. The story with the gay guy is over and she realizes that this guy will never be her boyfriend. She still wants him well, but she understands that in the name of that wanting well there is no sense in claiming a role that does not follow spontaneously and shared. If the guy goes away means he has to go his way and it makes no sense to try to hold him. After all, in this story, the guy never “deludes” the girl, does not objectively cross the boundaries of a simple but profound friendship, which means that his behavior does not cause misunderstandings.

The following mail is of a completely different content, but it is perhaps more interesting especially for the different way of acting of the guy who, voluntarily and guilty, causes the girl to err and eventually causes her reaction to resentment.

“Gays … nice people! I say it very ironically! But why I tell you so? So you’re convinced they’re all good guys. It is not true that just straight guys tease girls, the gays do much worse, and I, unfortunately, run completely into it. I came from a bad story with a little prat … I liked him very much physically but he was just gross and at the same time immature, in short, a real little prat! I was really angry.

I go to the disco once with my friends and there they introduce Marco to me, I do not like him either, Marco seems to me a little bit without character, the other one was rough but Marco seemed even slippery, he didn’t even inspire me at the sex level, and when it comes to guys I’m not one for subtlety. In practice, I do not care about him at all, but I notice he keeps an eye on me, when I try to look into his eyes, he turns his gaze, but keeps looking. I wonder, “But what is he searching for?” I decide and ask him. He only answers me: “You are cute!”

You know how it is, girls like such things, and then I say, “You are cute too!” But so, just for compliment, because he did not attract me at all, then we danced and in practice I lost my group and spent the evening with him who stayed in the disco alone! Yes he was there just alone, without friends! With my usual generic logic I thought that if one goes to the disco alone he goes there just hunting for girls and he, in fact, was courting me. The following week we continued to exchange messages.

Seen by day, in the sunlight he was less slippery than he seemed in the dark of the disco, he was not a great deal, a bit too plump, chubby, but, in short, he could still work. After a few days I got bored of this guy and I did not call him anymore, but he kept sending me messages as he was half in love, and provoked me saying that he was impressed and often thought of me and so many other things, but I was not really interested and I did not answer, or maybe only rarely, and only for education, but I was trying to keep myself in the neutral.

One night he calls me and tells me he is very bad and absolutely needs to talk to me about something very important. I tell him that if he has to vent he can do it with a friend or with a psychologist, but he insists, as if it were a very important thing, but does not tell me what it is, in the end I can’t do it anymore, I’m stressed by his insistence and I’ll tell him, “Okay, see you tomorrow.” He insists that it must be immediately, but I tell him it’s late and I do not know what to tell my mother and then he says it’s okay for the next day. The next night we meet and go to talk in the car.

I expect a clear and direct speech but it starts talking about generic things, I cannot figure out where this is all going down, I ask him explicitly why he wanted to talk to me, but instead of answering he insist on generic chatting. I ask him, “But are you kidding me?” I confess that I thought he might be one with some mental problem, maybe a maniac. I was just angry, I asked him, “What do you want from me?” And he took my hand, then I said, “I know, I understand! But you are not my type …” and there the contact between us took another way and we kissed, that is he was kissing me, I did not like too much but I was there.

When we broke away he said to me, “Do you think we could get together?” I said, “I do not know.” He said, “You are the first girl I really fell in love with” I took it as a compliment. After a couple of days we went to have some sex, that is to say, just to touch us because he proceeded very slowly in these things. He had a way of doing all his own, I would say above all contemplative. He told me that I was beautiful that is not true because I am a very ordinary girl but he looked at me with admiration, caressed me, but did not take the initiatives that usually guys take.

Anyway, we got together. Typically, guys tend to stay away from the girl’s family, he does not! He wanted to know my mother, my father, wanted to come to my house, a bit like a long time ago when there was the official engagement. He came to my house several times, my parents often invited him to lunch and his parents did the same, in a few months we become engaged in the classic way. All in all, it was all pretty nice, he was serious, he did not bother with the other girls, he was finishing his studies, and he would have found a good social position, even though these things were more interesting to my dad than to me. After a year of this kind of engagement in which we had also come to have sexual intercourses, always and only on my own initiative and insistence, finally we began to talk about marriage. My parents were happy and all in all I was happy too. We were always going around with friends on a Saturday afternoon and we were now an ironclad couple.

One day he tells me that he must unfortunately leave because he has an aunt who is very bad and cannot come with me the next Saturday, I tell him that it is fine and I do not mind. On Saturday, because there was a gay guy among our friends, this one proposes to go to a gay disco but where everybody can go for some fun, we decide and go. I feel like a fish out of water in that environment and I’m not going to dance but I sit a little defiled with two old friends. At some point I have the impression of seeing Marco on the dancefloor, dancing with another guy, the lights are hellish and it’s hard to recognize people, but in the middle of the flashes I guess he is, I’m still upset, but I’m not sure and on the other hand there are too many people and too much smoke to see well staying away, and certainly I would never get close enough to be recognized. I say to my friends that it is too hot and I have to go out a bit.

The disco is practically in the countryside and around there is a large parking lot for customers. I leave, I run into the parking lot and Marco’s car is there. I felt like breaking out for anger! I came back, I told my friends that I was sick and I wanted to go and we went home. They did not seen anything and had absolutely no idea that Marco was there.

The next morning Marco sends me the usual good sms, I ask him how his aunt is and he tells me she is “better”. Well, I was so mad I couldn’t see straight! I replied, “I saw where you were really last night. Get out of my face because if I see you again I’ll poke your eyeballs out!” Despite all he continued to lie and accuse me of homophobia! I did not answer him anymore and the story was over. I do not tell you the messing up at home, I could not tell them what happened, otherwise I would have been considered stupid all my life, so my parents gave me all the blame “because he was a very good guy”, and so on. That’s what a gay guy did to me!

Let’s see if you have the courage to publish such a mail! However I’m not angry with you, it’s obvious, but you do not imagine how slippery can be a gay guy who wants to use you as a screen woman, it’s just something hateful.”

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If you like, you can participate in the discussion of this post, on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/showthread.php?tid=132