GAY GUYS BETWEEN APPS AND CAMS

Hi Project,
I read a lot on your forum and also the manual Being Gay and I breathed a sigh of relief, from these readings comes out an image of gay life that is very close to what I live. I had surfed a lot on the Internet looking for something realistic, but frankly I was always disappointed. I also spent a period approaching chats and apps dedicated to gays and there, for me, it was just like going to explore the moon. I wondered: but how is it possible that there are no “normal” gay guys, that is guys not obsessed with sex and no too much engaged with the gay movement, guys who mustn’t necessarily have a flag. I, with one exception that you will soon understand, have never seen the classic next door gay guy. Ok, we are few, even if not very few, but I didn’t see even a single gay guy and I didn’t even perceive a vague trace of them, just zero!

I’m 26 years old, throughout the university period I was very careful to spy on possible gay signals but I didn’t find any, or at least some clues were so labile that I was discouraged from going forward at any level. Then I found Gay Project, there were many beautiful testimonies, but, Project, are all old, even several years old, of this year there is very little, almost nothing, in short, Project, gay guys have escaped also from Gay Project! Where did they go? I think in the apps that explode for how many people you can find there, but it’s a shame, because the forum serves to reflect and understand something of the lives of others and also of one’s own live. However, I close this parenthesis and come to the main motivation for my email. In practice, the story is about my relationship with the chats and some people known in chat, especially with one.

A couple of years ago, after a thousand hesitations, after doubts, scruples and everything you want, I register on a famous app for gay dating, I don’t name it, but I think you understand what I mean. When I enter for the first time I feel like Pinocchio in the Country of the toys. I said to myself: “But it’s all so easy! But how did I not understand it before? I was totally stupid!” I get the first contact. I expect something very rough: four questions and then to the point! But no, I find a very kind guy who asks me how long I have been using the app, what is my name, in which region of Italy I am, etc. etc., in practice a normal chat, then asks me if we can see each other on cam, here I remain very perplexed, a little I had to imagine it, but then and there I felt caught on the counterattack, I finally told him that I didn’t feel like doing it, he tried to insist, but I didn’t change my mind and then he greeted me with a very characteristic phrase: “So what are you doing here?”

However, that experience put me in front of a Shakespearean doubt that I had to solve: “Cam or not cam?” In the end I told myself that app without cam makes no sense and I decided that I would show up on cam (dressed, of course !). At the next contact, more or less the same ritual, a little chatter and then the request to go on cam. I open the cam, but I find myself in front of a guy who doesn’t inspire me: long dirty nails, greasy hair, no! Just repellent and moreover probably over 40! Before making him talk I told him brutally: “You’re not my type, I’m not interested, bye!” He replied with unspeakable insults: “Piece of sh.t … you’re beautiful! Ugly asshole!!” Then I closed and it ended there.

After an abstinence from the app lasted a few days, I try again, at the beginning the script is more or less the usual, we open the cam, well, this time I have to say that the guy gives me a good impression, he’s not the guy of my dreams, but I think it’s worth trying with him, but he immediately freezes me: “No, forget it! You’re not my type, I like more fat guys, I’m sorry, Bye!” After having been put down this way, I deleted the app, but a couple of months later I downloaded it again and this time at the first shot I make bingo, I like the guy, he’s young, he says he’s 23 years old, moreover he’s nice and he doesn’t close the cam but goes on chatting.

We speak, in practice never talk about sex, but he doesn’t even talk about women as happened with a guy I had met in a chat. Let’s say this he was not bad, we spend a week chatting and he never talks about sex, ok, I tell myself that maybe he’s a bit ‘inhibited, on the other hand he’s young, we spend chatting another week and we talk about everything from fractals to quarks, from mandalas to coelacanth but we never talk about sex. I have never endured those who speak immediately about sex, but before or after we must come to the point.

I do not know whether to start the speech, but I don’t even know where to start from, I let him talk, but he starts to talk about Chinese cinema and things like that, so I cannot stand him anymore and I say to him: “But why did you look for me on the app? And he told me, I looked for you because I know you well … ” I tell him that I had never seen him and he answers me in a completely unexpected way: “If you are referring to what you saw in cam, that’s not me, he’s a friend who made himself available … ” I began to be afraid because I didn’t know who I was talking to and I feared something bad, like blackmail or maybe he could also have been a psychopath. He told me: “I know many things about you! I know that this morning you went late to work …”

Here I began to really worry, he could be some of my work colleagues, it seemed strange that someone followed my movements and spied on me, I didn’t understand what motivation could lead to similar things. Then before I wrote my answer he closed. I felt agitated, I didn’t sleep at night. Who could be interested in spying on me? And if the guy knew I was late at work he could only be one of my colleagues. In the morning I go to work, but I have the impression that nothing has changed, the three colleagues with whom I work and sometimes I even chat a bit every day don’t show signs of any kind. Things are not clear at all.

Who could know that I had arrived late for work? The guy does not show up for two days, I don’t know if I feel more comfortable or more agitated, then I get a message: “You’re puzzled eh … I can understand you!” I tried to make myself feel calm and to widen the speech in order to have some more elements to understand what was happening. He replied: “I feel that you are worried and that you pretend not to be, you must learn to recite better.” I was puzzled and asked him: “Who are you? What do you want from me?” He replied: “I’m your conscience! And I want to bring you to think a little bit. I know you, I know that today at the bar you didn’t have the usual breakfast, you chose something different, but why? Maybe are you agitated?” “But I totally ban you and close this shit of an app!” “Certainly you can do it, but the idea of being controlled will remain, there are so many ways … ” And he closed.

I tried to remember who was near me at the bar but I had not noticed anyone, at least I had ruled out that it was a work colleague, because in the morning at the bar there was nobody I knew, but someone obviously knew me. However, in the following days the guy would not have returned to my bar, of this I could be sure. He said he was my conscience and wanted to make me think. Could he be a person I don’t know? But what interest would push a stranger to make all this comedy? However, for every good purpose I banned him and I deleted the app again.

A few days later I went into a chat where I used to go sometimes even before, and I got a call from a stranger with nickname “Mattew92-bis” and it alarmed me because Mattew92 was my nickname. He asks me: “How are you?” I ask him right away if we know each other and he says “Sure!” Then he adds: “You did well to delete the app, but what are you looking for here?” I told him: “But who are you? Because you are becoming an obsession for me!” He replied: “No! Just shut down the chat and I disappear!” And I said to him: “But then I find you somewhere else?” He just said, “We’ll see” and he broke off.

I permanently closed my account on the chat and then I came back to it with a different nick, but he was still there and told me: “Why are you playing with me? What do you do you? You get out and then re-enter?” I insist: “Who are you? If you don’t tell me, I go to the police.” He said to me: “And if I were the police?” I insisted, “Are you a cop?” And he closed. I was really scared and didn’t know what to expect, then I received an email from “Mattew92-bis”, I quote it below.

“Hello Matthew, from now you will not hear me again, I’m sorry if I made you worry, my name is Matthew too, and I was born the same year and the same month you were born, but a few days later. I live in front of your house, you’ve never noticed me but I have watched you for a long time, you leave the window open and you have a mirror behind your back that allows me to see what you do at the PC even if you don’t know, I know you’re gay, don’t worry, because I’m gay too, and I’ll not disgrace you, the day you were late at work I followed you from home to where you work, when you had breakfast differently I was in the bar, but you didn’t even notice me, when you enter the chat I see it immediately and I also know your nick, for the application I have a version a little modified by me, I can detect gays that I have around me but they cannot detect me because my location is fixed and always in the same place. If you look at the window you can see from where I look at you: there is a green tent with drawn circles, one of those circles is a hole and from there I look at you with a powerful telescope. Now probably you too will put a tent behind the window, and I will not have my show anymore, but, instead of chasing guys on apps and chats, why don’t you come visit me? You are really a nice guy, I … well … it’s not up me to judge, but I am attaching a photo of me, so you can understand who I am! I wait for you, now you know where to find me! Please note that I’m not looking for sex, then if sex comes by itself, ok, but I’m looking for a serious gay friend and I know it could be you, if you’ll ever forgive me.”

I opened the picture and it occurred to me that I had seen that guy a couple of times in passing and he was also a handsome guy. I took courage and went to his house. I told him that he had made me worry a lot, and that he finally made the voyeur. He replied: “Yes, it’s true, it started like this, but then you really intrigued me.”

Actually he was not looking for sex, I don’t know if there will be sex sooner or later, I hope so, but I’m fine even without sex, I found a totally unexpected friend. He didn’t want me to go to chats because he wanted me to think only of him, now we see each other every day, because he lives right in the building in front of mine, he’s a guy with a monstrous intelligence and he really cares about me. Where the story will end up I don’t know but it seems like a good story and then, seen closely he’s just beautiful, sweet but also confident, reassuring.

Well, I was not expecting a coming out like that. I didn’t put any curtains at the window, I saw his telescope with which he spied on me, it was a huge, very heavy, professional tool, he told me was equipped with a 35 cm mirror, and you could see everything even the smallest details. He told me that the first thing that had struck him was that in my house there were never girls and that everything started from there, a beautiful guy (he says I’m beautiful), no girls … the thing must be deeply analyzed! And he did bingo! He made me shit with fear but now we are two gay friends! And he is not a pathological case as I had feared!
I hug you, Project, and thanks for your skype contact, I’ll call you soon.
Mattew92

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-gay-guys-between-apps-and-cams

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A GIRL IN LOVE WITH A GAY GUY

I too have been was with a guy who has literally destroyed my life, finally after years of profound solitude (many have consoled me but no one really understood me, not having lived the same things in first person), only in this forum finally I found someone who knows how these situations can be painful. Even my ex, while never having loved me, obsessively sought me when I left him, and I came back with him many times, he had declared his feeling to me too early, he used to kiss me mechanically … it’s all so familiar, so similar to what a had read many times on the forum!

My ex is also very misogynist. He writes very angry postings on Facebook in which he says that in his life he has been only with some bitches, for him a woman is worth the other, and when I asked him reassurance about us he seemed amused not giving me any answer, he was sorry for my “affective rants”, he said I was stupid because I was a girl, a girl who doesn’t like being contradicted, and he would have liked me to be more military, harder, a real shitty woman, solar and strong. Moreover, he compared me to all the women he had known, even to my friends, to my sister, letting me understand that they were better than me.

Then when I tried to leave him he threw himself at my feet and said he had a sickness inside, which led him to treat people badly … then when I “got back” with him, he immediately became another time the usual asshole. When we had sex it seemed like a funeral march, it was something that he did without joy, and I didn’t know what he was thinking about, but he never hugged me warmly, never pampered if not with embarrassment and a sort of disgust, superficial caresses, then he immediately he used to snort saying I was a person accustomed to ask for too much. He liked, however, to receive cuddles, like a child, with the excuse that he was sick. I felt like I was his mother or a whore to be despised, depending on the moments. You cannot understand, or perhaps only you who read here, you can understand that suffering, that absurdity I have experienced.

But I do not think I’m a victim because I partly knew he was gay. I was aware of some things, the relationship he had with his best friend and his anaffectiveness, the relationship he had with his mother (this is perhaps a common place), the total disinterest he had for intimacy with me … It was as if he was missing * that thing *, and I don’t want to say the penis, but the instinct to be close to me emotionally and physically, which then becomes a body in the sexual act. He is fixed with girls, he always speaks with this tone of … I don’t know, of blame, horror, it is not clear why he runs behind them, according to what he tells about it, and in general girls refuse even his friendship because he is not able to enter their sympathies, treating them as badly as he usually does.

All this is despite his being a handsome guy, that pushes initially all girls to speak to him and become curious about him (he is also clever and witty, original and creative) … Looking back I know that he loves me very much, he simply doesn’t accept me for what I’m: a woman. He used to say that I was playing the role of the female while I behaved in an absolutely natural way. He used to watch me cry in silence as if he could not connect with my pain. Sometimes he was kind, he was not a monster, let’s be clear. But he couldn’t be a loving guy. He used to show me affection only in the scene in which he was ill and I took care of him as a mother-nurse, and he in the grip of his “depression” (which I suspect is his repression) pretended to be dying and asked me to soothe his pain with my magical power or something, he asked me to feel his heart, to be near him … all the things he missed in normal moments, only that they were totally disconnected from the sexual dimension. His sexuality was all sadism in practice.

I talked a lot about him because what we lived still hurts. We were very close, symbiotic, and we really loved each other, even if we hurt ourselves and it is better for both of us to stay away (these situations are so absurd and contradictory) … I didn’t say anything about myself because I was with him even though I felt he was gay. But I want to say it because other people can pass through here and they could benefit from my experience as it happened to me.

So, first of all, I could not be sure that he was gay. He used to throw me many clues but he never told me it clearly and openly. Nor could he do it, because the problem between us was just that, he could not open up with me, there was place only to hurt me to vent his pain and to lie (even to himself), tell me stories, sell me his fictitious personality … there was no space neither to listen to me nor to truly express himself. If he is really gay, I don’t think he has accepted it at all, and if he has accepted it he denies it with all his strength.

Second: having a guy probably homosexual but who can have sex with women and has really sex with you from a certain point of view is a good move if you’re an insecure girl, because you know he cannot betray you. And also because (sorry if I use a stereotype but in my case it was so) with a gay guy you can have a friendship that with a straight guy is impossible to have. I remember that I really appreciated his patience, his passion for psychology, his gossip, his eye for aesthetics, the way we could talk for hours about how our male friends were, how they reasoned and so on … then when we wanted to, we also had sex, and I didn’t feel tested by him, because I knew he was thinking more than anything to himself while we were doing it, it was the affection towards me and his need to “unload” that motivated him, not my desirability as a woman … The price I paid for this “comfortable” relationship was the frustration of my real need, which is not only physical but also emotional and psychological. I had much more desire than him, and he began to say that I was nymphomaniac, he went around saying that even after we had separated.

So it was the fault of both of us for me. I knew, deeply, that I wasn’t really in love with him. He missed that light in the eyes that seemed to me to be the most important characteristic of the man I dreamed to have beside me. But when I tried to get away he was chasing me in every way. When I changed the phone number, he wrote to my sister, to my best friends, insistently, to know where I was … He didn’t respect my very simple request to be left alone to get over our story. When he thought I had canceled him he tried to come back with me. Perhaps he didn’t want to lose me because I had been more or less the only one who had seen him, albeit consciously deluding herself, like the straight man he wanted at all costs to be. Losing me meant losing the person who most believed in his artificial personality, the one he spent and still spends his life to sculpt and finish, full of artificial justifications about why he’s not normal, he is not like the other guys, he cannot stay in touch with people or women, because women are stupid and have to be more like men …

There is perhaps a third reason, sweet-bitter, that pushed me to stay with him, apart from the fear of a true love and the fear of be wrong about him, and it’s a mixture of voyeurism and pity. Something morbid, a curiosity almost like a reporter. He seemed to me and still seems, a striking case of how the repression can completely destroy the life of an individual.

Standing near to him I lived a kind of perverse reality show in which I expected at every step that he betrayed himself and that it turned out that he was gay with irrefutable proofs, or better I expected him to confess it clearly. Although perhaps I would have preferred to sadistically catch him on the fact, as in a yellow. I cannot really blame him for his feeling himself cornered and with his back to the wall or for his continuous questioning the sincerity of my love, because there was also a dark element in it, and I knew it. It seemed to me also my legitimate compensation for all the things I endured from him.

With the time I accepted the situation, I understood that it was not me who was wrong, that I cannot change him, that he is like that with everyone and not only with me because he suffers deeply. Sometimes I would like to help him, but I don’t know how to do it and I tend to say that maybe because I was his only girl and he was my most important guy in spite of everything … maybe I’m the last person who can help him. And this is very sorry for me because nobody has ever been so close to me, and for him it’s substantially the same … Now I hope the future leads me to a normal story, with a guy who wants to kiss his girlfriend, to cuddle her, to stay well together with her, and all this keeping calm and living quietly. It seems impossible to me because I’m very cynical about it, partly because of traumas related to my parents. I’m afraid that if I met a good guy I wouldn’t be attracted to him. But okay, I’ll see what happens. I needed to tell how much I felt understood on this forum. Thanks again to the OP and to all the others. Greetings.

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-a-girl-in-love-with-a-gay-guy

A GIRL IN LOVE FOR TWO YEARS WITH A REPRESSED GAY GUY

I’m reluctantly going out from a story with a repressed guy man I loved and love so much still now, despite all the evil he did to me. I only left him for two weeks ago because I realized that he had never really loved me. I state that I’m 26 years old and he is 23.

We met at an internship, we exchanged the numbers and for commitments of both we met two months later to go for a coffee together. Well, that night we talked about this and that, nothing more.

Arrived home I got a text message in which he confessed me his love and he hoped that it was reciprocated. Honestly this thing made me think a lot, because it is unthinkable to love a person so quickly, especially because he had just come out of a story that had lasted two years. In the following days we started to meet, he seemed really a sweet and tender guy and so at the end I tied myself to him and after a week or so we got together, even though initially I was a little hesitant.

The first kiss was sought by him, and so even the first time we made love it was he the one who did the first step, let’s say it all happened fast enough.

After only 3 weeks, he wanted to take me to his parents because he cared very much about this thing, and so I went into his family.

The more time passed the more that sweet and good guy became a distant memory. He was a type who later was discovered to be a great liar, but of the chronic ones; even though he knew he had lied to me he managed to treat me badly and to tell me bad things because I had allowed myself to doubt him. I don’t tell you how many tears I have shed, he often and gladly treated me badly even when I worried about him.

For example, once we were at the beginning of our engagement, he had to take an exam at the university, so in the afternoon, as usual, I called him to know how it went. Immediately after seeing my text messages and my calls he turned off the phone, and I, desperate, not knowing what had happened and imagining that something had not gone well with the exam, I decided to go to his house to see how he was and to lift a little his spirits, in case.

I arrive behind the door and find him ready to go out with his roommate friend to buy something, I saw him quite serene, but seeing me he got angry, he took me aside and told me that he didn’t want to answer because he was nervous because he hadn’t taken the exam and I would never have to allow myself to go to his house without warning. I felt very bad of course, because instead of appreciating that his girlfriend was worried about him, he got angry, and I didn’t understand why he was calm when he was with that friend and became almost rancorous with me! He was always like that with me, if he was nervous about his business he treated me badly for no reason, he told me the worst things, while for his friends he was another person.

He didn’t even want me to approach his phone for a matter of privacy and so over time I discovered he was hiding many things from me: he messaged secretly with other girls.

I have always been very sincere with him and I wanted him to do the same, because if he didn’t do anything wrong he wouldn’t need to hide. At the beginning he was really a chronic liar, he even came to lie about his past. Over time and with various speeches that I did he changed enough.

On a sentimental level instead I found myself with a person completely different from what he was at the beginning. He was not the type who kissed me on my cheek, who hugged me tightly, who cuddled me, these things were not spontaneous for him. Even when he was kissing me I didn’t feel passion and complicity, sometimes I happened to have to interrupt a kiss because it seemed no more than a play consisting in rhythmically move the tongue! I felt that those kisses were detached, and he justified his mistakes and his behavior as “inexperience”.

Even on a sexual level things were not going very well, he was very selfish, and we made love quite rarely because he was always stressed and tired. Only once I allowed myself to say with all the sweetness “I want you” but the ruckus broke loose, he began to shout against me and tell me that I didn’t understand that he was tired and that I used to make love only for “venting”. I don’t tell you the tears! As usual I was the one who had to pay for everything and who felt bad about the discussions, he, on the contrary, was totally indifferent, and rather than clarifying he preferred to go for a good night’s sleep. I thought it was a matter of character. Once after a discussion in which I had finished crying because he had treated me badly, he had understood that he was wrong and in order to show himself really sorry (I saw him out of the corner of the eye) he licked his hand and then wetted his eyes. I was puzzled by that gesture, but I didn’t say anything to prevent him from being uncomfortable.

Returning to the previous speech, to prevent him from reacting badly, I waited for him to make the first step to make love, based on how he felt! The intercourse, however, wasn’t very satisfying, he liked better to be masturbated by me rather than to make love classically. In time, talking about it, however, I made it clear to him that it was more important for me to make love classically because it was much more beautiful and intimate in a couple in love and so he changed his behavior to please me.

I had always noticed that his penis was not hard enough and that came out almost nothing of sperm. Initially talking to him he wanted me to believe it could be a pathology. In time he confessed to me that he used to masturbate 5-6 times a day, and from there I understood why he almost never wanted to make love. This thing made me feel very ill, because I thought that it was I was who was the problem, to be ugly and undesirable, so much so that my boyfriend preferred to do it by himself.

He simply told me that he loved me and that this was his longtime habit. I remember sadly the first night on vacation where we had the chance to sleep in the double bed together. As soon as I approached him looking for cuddles he turned away and with a serious and annoyed tone told me: “turn the other way and sleep!”, I remained silent, I did not understand why he reacted like that, I did as he told me and without making him notice I cried a lot.

I come now to tell an episode that dates back to a period before his “crisis”. One afternoon he had to study with a very esteemed friend, his college mate. We should have met after they had finished studying. That evening for no apparent reason he treated me badly with an unprecedented wickedness, told me that I had ugly dark circles, that my hair was ugly and he also pointed out other physical defects with a face literally “disgusted”. Obviously I was felt badly, and my self-esteem was affected again.

A few weeks later (we are talking about a year ago) it was a period when he was very nervous and he treated me very badly, he came to tell me that we could not be together because he could not love me, and he would never have succeeded, that he didn’t want make fun of me anymore and delude me. He said that in his own way he had loved me, but that always, not only with me then, he couldn’t feel feelings for anyone, even in old stories, he couldn’t even cry (and now I understand why he thought I was pretending when I cried because of him).

He asks me not to abandon him and I, who was anyway very attached to him, understand his discomfort and decide to stay close to him to try to understand where his malaise was coming from. In this period I try to talk a lot and to find the origin of his discomfort. He manages to tell me that he, compared to the other guys, he has never felt much attraction for women, for example if he saw a girl in a miniskirt he felt nothing at all. He comes to hypothesize to be gay, and he seems more and more convinced of it to the point of wanting to stay forever on his own because he would never have accepted the truth.

His dream would have been to go away and live his life away from everyone.

In this period I am his confidant and try to pull out of him the toad he had inside. It also comes out that as a child he discovered sexuality with an uncle 9-10 years older. In this “game” he had to masturbate his uncle, and he did it for a while … he didn’t tell me more. However I try to reassure him and try to minimize everything by saying that anyway they are experiences that can happen when sexuality is not yet developed and doesn’t mean that for this he is gay. I was convinced that maybe he was becoming obsessed by the idea of being gay, and that anyhow he was not.

When he told me this, it was as if he felt a bit of resentment towards this uncle, as if his uncle had taken advantage of him who at the time was a boy, somehow an easy prey. But in reality he loves this uncle (I too know this uncle), he loves him very much and vice versa, this uncle loves him very much. He has always considered him a good person … for him he is his best uncle!

Once become aware of such thing and seeing his discomfort I propose to go together with to a psychologist but in the end he is never ready to go, always postpones until he ends up saying that he doesn’t need it.

In the meantime he, convinced that we cannot go back together, for my own sake, pushes me to go out with other guys and stay only friends with him, and slowly he moves away more and more. At the end I decide to go out with a friend with whom there had been something in the past, even to test his reaction. Starting from this episode he approached me again telling me that he loved me, that he had only had a bad time and that he wanted to care about me. Shortly thereafter, after 3 months of “friendship”, a little naively perhaps, because I was too much in love with him, I believe him and we come back together.

Things with him are not going very well, he continues to be nervous and stressed for no apparent reason, the exams went great, he was finishing all in time, there were only 2 small easy exams to overcome and he was one step away from graduation. Secretly he began to smoke because of anxiety, and in his life he had never smoked! Even with me things were not good, on a sexual level I was not looking for a lot, and every time we made love he lose the erection, and sometimes even blamed me because he said he saw me absent and it was not true at all!

Just two months after our returning together, he falls again into crisis, we are in late July, last year, and he once again come to tell me that he doesn’t love me, and never will, that the fault is not mine but he doesn’t feel feelings for anyone; he leaves me this time for two and a half months, in August, the first month, he sent me messages telling me that he loved me, that he was wrong and that he wanted to see me again, but he never did anything concrete to see me again.

In September and mid-October it disappears completely and afterwards he goes back to show himself sending me a lot of text messages and I, tired and still hurt, I call him and ask him to leave me in peace after all the evil he did to me.

He arrives up to tell me that he has been a month with another girl, and punctually like always, also because he saw me agitated, because it seemed that I was the problem, he starts to totally denies what he had just said perhaps for fear of losing me, but I don’t believe him.

I find him one morning behind the door with a bouquet of flowers and my heart still weak could not say no! He told me that he had only left because he was stressed out by the thesis but that he always loved me, it was nonsense but the heart sometimes doesn’t want to see certain things and I believed him! He told me that during this period he did nothing and told me that he had been with a girl for a month just to know if I was engaged with someone else (the reality is that he had disappeared also with text messages for a month so I’m well aware that the story he told me is just a lie). Honestly I think he could do it because, not feeling anything for anybody, according to his thought, one girl or other doesn’t matter at all, the important thing is to appear heterosexual, especially if it is a dear friend of his the one who introduces him to the girls in question … all easy girls!

Things immediately went wrong, even the first time we did it as soon as we got back together his erection faded and his penis became soft quite immediately and so all the other times, he didn’t have a good (hard) erection. I didn’t feel in him the desire to have sex with me, as I have never felt it in two years of our story. Many times I told him that I had the impression that he mechanically made love, and he punctually got mad at it! Lately he told me that those caresses, those kisses and those cuddles he did to me, which he never had done before, were a play, were only a “recitation” because he hadn’t really changed. I felt very bad, and even more, because I believed he had unlocked himself since at the beginning I had asked him to make me some cuddle and do me some caress every now and then.

I was wrong! He punctually said that it was not true and that he had said it because he was nervous … I think instead that it was just when he was nervous that he was really telling me how things were … with a cold mind he was inclined to deny everything not to let me get away.

One of the last times we made love, immediately after putting the condom, in a few seconds, without giving me even time to undress, his erection became soft, and once again he blamed me saying “Asshole! Hurry up!”; understanding his embarrassment I didn’t even answer, it was clear that it was not my fault! It was he who, in his haste to put on a condom, had given me no time to undress! Usually, knowing his problem, I preferred to wait a while and was not in a hurry. The fact is that I was tired of his humiliations … once, after we did, perhaps because I had kept inside the anger for his gratuitous wickedness, I cried … and he obviously believed I was pretending! I don’t even know how he could have thought such a thing … and oh well!

I arrive to the drop that broke the jar and that made me say “now it’s enough” even if I love him I want a little love for myself! While I was doing oral sex on him he was very excited with a fantasy so much so that he expressed it aloud, in practice he imagined another man who together with him penetrated me. Such a fantasy left me a little disconcerted because I love him I don’t need to think about anything else, I only need him! I would never enjoy seeing him with another girl, rather I die from jealousy! He told me that it didn’t mean that he didn’t love me but that there is a distinction between sex and love.

Then to understand how things really were, I “pretend” to understand his point of view and I tell him that maybe he’s right, that maybe I’m a bit closed because with him I conceived only the classical making love. I tell him that I would like to make this fantasy come true, and that I would have been looking for a guy in the chat! At first he refuses but with a little insistence he accepts (at that moment I would have preferred to die) and he advised me to find a young guy, better if already engaged, who was not inclined to fall in love with someone else … and coming from a different city.

Then he thought of where to do it … he didn’t know if in the car … or in some house! However at the end being a little hesitant he decided to drop it for the moment … maybe later we would have talked about it! Inside me, however, there was a huge disappointment, because I’m convinced that a man who loves would not do a similar rubbish with his woman, but not even for a joke! The fact is that he was angry with me because I didn’t have to play with his imagination and told me that I not having such fantasies I was an amorphous girl.

After two years of great love for him in which if I had been allowed, I would have given my soul for him, if, according to him, thinking only of him when we made love was an “amorphous” thing well, this was not the man I wanted at my side, because as he has often said to me “he never loved me” and certainly he does not know what true love means, I am convinced! And I am even more convinced that he was a repressed gay who for fear of the reality held me bound to him doing me an evil that he couldn’t even imagine.

I’m tired of suffering, I want someone to make me feel loved and that at least cares about me. I still want to believe in true love … I hope it exists!

I only regret having given an immense love to a guy who has never understood it, because he was too devoid of feelings to be able to perceive mine, I was simply for him “the girl with whom he was” no more and no less than many other girls! Which girl in my place would have accepted so much stress if she hadn’t been madly in love? I think certainly none … pity he never understood such things!

This is my story ended on 18/4/2014 … from that day I’m trying a new rebirth, even if we are still at the beginning and for me everything is difficult … I have to suffer long before I can smile again … also because this was for me the first big love of my life, and I really believed it! I apologize if I have been too wordy and thank all those who will want to comment on my story, the opinions are always welcome!

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HOMOSEXUALITY AS A GUILT-PATHOLOGY AND MARRIAGE AS A REMEDY

This post is dedicated to married gays, so I will leave aside all the considerations related to sexual orientation of guys who have a straight sex life at the couple level and having a sex life typically gay at the level of masturbation, because these considerations have an important sense only before you get married.

I will start here from the situation of married gays, as I see it through the chats with people living in this condition. In my dialogues with married gay guys of all ages, the idea that when we are young, we are very often led to underestimate homosexuality and to consider it a choice and, even worse, a reversible choice, is always present. Too many times one hears people telling that one chooses to be gay and this totally false statement creeps into the brains of the guys who, forgive me the desecrating but instructive example, consider homosexuality not as their nature, i.e. as a personal fundamental characteristic but as a kind of drug that is a bad thing in itself but that can be taken in the end, in small doses, because it is taken for granted that one can come out of it when and how one wants.

Homosexuality has nothing negative and it is not a habit that leads to addiction, such as the use of drugs but it is a reality about which it makes no sense to say: “I go out of it when I want” because being gay is not a choice. The idea coming from a religious matrix of the homosexuality as a vice that if rooted leads to an addiction, that is to a vice no longer eradicable, is still widespread and continues to produce incalculable damages, inducing gays to marriage in the belief that, in the end, with an act of will, they can also choose to be straight.

The married gays know very well how much this wrong vision of things is deleterious. Very often, in socially backward reality in which homophobia dominates, children learn from an early age to see homosexuality as a disvalue, all traditional education presupposes the heterosexuality of guys and, where there are gay guys, who are eight percent of the guys and therefore are practically everywhere, causes them to repress any gay drive through feelings of guilt.

The Catholic Church still officially has attitudes that are substantially homophobic and, in substance even if not in words, incites hatred against homosexuals. With Pope Francis the tone, at the top, has changed, but eradicating homophobia from the Church is a something that seems to be destined for failure, admitted and not granted that someone really intends to attempt it.

The attitudes of the family are often backwarded and violently repressive. I invite those who have not seen it to see a very significant French film: “Juste une question d’amour” in which parents who embody two different attitudes have to face the homosexuality of the sons. When the repression of homosexuality is so strong as to induce the guys not only to eliminate external behaviors that may make people think of homosexuality but even to fight against their own homosexual instincts at a very private level by repressing spontaneous masturbation in a gay key, it becomes unfortunately possible and concrete the possibility that a guy can think not only of forcing himself not to be gay but even to be straight.

These are forms of profound violence that completely alter and I would say completely distort the affectivity and sexuality of a gay guy, who is encouraged to create a heterosexual relationships and to cultivate it by “imitating” the attitudes of other guys; in these cases the removal of homosexuality is seen as a moral merit and heterosexual sexuality is accepted as “medicine of homosexuality”.

Behind all this, the idea of sexuality as a vice and therefore as a fault is evident. On closer inspection, it is easy to understand that where very elementary and dogmatic conceptions of nature dominate, the complexity of reality is compressed into schemes derived from pure prejudices. To think that sexuality is aimed only at procreation is an assumption of principle that is systematically contradicted at the social level and in individual behavior.

The expression “against nature” has been and is still used systematically with regard to behaviors and to the same homosexual libido. Instead of knowing what variants of human sexuality are, it is much easier to consider them as deviations “against nature” or as acquired vices, or cultural choices, more or less induced from the outside. To consider homosexuality a vice rather than a variant of human sexuality means to base the whole approach to homosexuality on totally wrong grounds.

When a guy evaluates his homosexuality as a vice against which one must resist to return to true sexuality according to nature, in fact, he takes an attempt of self-repression that results in an attempt to avoid or contain masturbation, to escape from the occasions in which homosexual instincts can be more easily reawakened, to sublimate homosexuality in affectionate friendship, and, at the end, to choose of a way without return like marriage. I report here (with the consent of the author) an email I received.

“I am writing to you with great fear because I don’t know who you are, and the fact that you are gay embarrasses me. I’m 25 years old, I have distinctly felt an interest in guys for a few years, but I don’t feel repulsed by girls, now I have a girlfriend for a few months and all in all I feel quite at ease with her, she’s very sweet and she’s not obsessed with sex like some girls that I had before, we love each other, she is not at the top of my thoughts, I sometimes let myself go to pornography and in particular gay pornography, but with my girlfriend I think that a serious relationship could also be built. I want to say that if I work hard I can do without gay porn and even without masturbation for several days and I think if I had a family I could put all these things aside to dedicate myself to my family. I feel that I’m at a turning point, because if I wanted, I could arrive to the wedding and even in a short time and my girlfriend would be very happy and even our parents, and in the end, it would be good for me, but honestly for me it’s very hard to decide because then I could not go back. I would love to get married and do away with pornography once and for all. etc., but I’m afraid of doing the biggest stupid thing in my life. There is something that makes me reflect and it is the fact that I talk with my girlfriend about everything but I could not talk about my homosexual fantasies because I think that she wouldn’t really understand the meaning of such a thing, she’s fine with me, we pamper each other with a minimum of petting but she would never understand that for me there is something else, she is convinced that homosexuality is a vice that can be overcome with good will and perhaps with the help of a good psychologist. I too, years ago, tended to give for granted all these things but lately I started to think that things are much less easy than people make them look. I asked myself many questions about my future and what I really want. Recently I met a guy at the university and I started to look at him with interest, but not only for reasons of sex, as I did before, but to look at him with emotional interest, he made me feel tenderness, I wanted to stay next to him, there was also sex, but not just sex, and for the first time I began to think that for me a love story could be possible even with a guy and maybe even more with a guy than with a girl. I don’t know anything about the gay reality, which objectively scares me but I’m not at all sure that I want to give up my private and tiny gay world to go to a wedding that honestly scares me a little because in the end it could be a real trap. But now what have I to do? My girlfriend expects the wedding, like our parents and friends, etc. etc .. I think I need someone who forces me to admit things that I now see even by myself, even if then transforming the clarity of ideas that I’m gaining into concrete actions is really difficult.”

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OK I’M GAY BUT I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO

Hello Project, I wanted to thank you for last night, you have infinite patience and above all you have the ability to make me feel less agitated. One like me, who at 25, after so many back and forth, comes to the conclusion that being with a girl is not for him, he feels quite destabilized: what to do with the girl? What to do with parents? And then, gay, ok, but this at the moment only means that I have fantasies about guys, but then how should I move? I don’t know anything about it and you can understand that I’m so scared that sometimes I get the very strong temptation to say: well, I’m gay, but it’s just a fantasy and it will never change, there will never be anything concrete, then I might as well go on acting the role of straight guy, I did it for so many years! 
 
In the end being gay is too complicated, I’m not used to all the things I read in the forum, prudence, acting, let’s say that until now I did but unconsciously, basically up to a few months ago, I had a half idea of being really straight, but now I should just act consciously and then what do I do?
 
Admitted and not granted that I find a guy, I take him home and I say to my parents: “He is my boyfriend!”? I believe they would call psychiatric service because they do not expect it at all such a thing. And then, even assuming that I can solve calmly with the girl (obviously inventing false motivations, what gives me tremendous annoyance, because she has always been very transparent to me), what does it mean to find a boyfriend? Finding a girl I know what it means, or better, I know what it means being found by a girl, and the complications are not too many, but looking for a guy must be something different.
 
What do I say to a guy? “How beautiful you are! I would like to eat you with kisses!” But how do you woo a guy? I just cannot imagine it. In short, all these things we talked about last night at the time reassured me, when we said goodbye I felt euphoric, then this morning I said to myself: I spoke with Project, it’s true, but for me, in concrete, what has changed ? Just nothing! I talk to Project but in the end It’s I who have to deal with my problems and here’s the problem, because I’m really afraid of not even knowing where one has to start from. The guys who felt gay from the beginning, have slowly learned these things, but me? I read the forum to try to understand what it actually means to be gay and the result is that it seems a lot harder than I thought before. I’m still scared, I think we’ll hear each other soon.
 
You did a very important thing, you took away from my mind a bit of crazy ideas that seemed to me absolutely obvious, you know, a greenhorn doesn’t even know the a b c, for example about the coming out, I filled my brain with this idea, even if I couldn’t really understand how to do something like that, but I liked the idea and I felt less than others because I unconsciously knew it was not for me. Now at least I feel less inept and more gay, so to speak, normal, after what you told me. Then the problems of prevention! Damn, Project, I was just about to throw in the towel. With my girlfriend practically at most a bit of petting, so zero risk, but with a guy I hoped to do a bit of sex. Well at certain times last night I said to myself: Project exaggerates! Maybe he does so for good, but for him this story of prevention is just a fixed idea. But then to think that maybe for a little sex one can really get into big trouble shows things in another way and I had never thought about it!
 
Anyway, let’s say I think I would not have put myself at risk, but now I’m sure I’ll be even more careful.
 
Another point, I need to understand how other boys live their homosexuality (what a horrible word!) Because I’ve never fallen in love with a guy and I think that my basic doubts are all coming from there. Sexual fantasies yes and many, but in love with a guy never! And how is it that if I’m really gay and I’ve never fallen in love with a guy? It seems to me that I could have a relationship of pampering with a girl but with a guy, I don’t know how it could be. Maybe it’s all about roles, maybe it’s something that is much simpler than I think, but at the moment I don’t really see myself cuddling another guy.
 
I often thought that I could do all my fantasies, I mean sexual fantasies, about a guy, but if I really knew him then I would be unable to live in reality that sexuality, maybe that guy would be a friend, even the best friend, as it happened sometimes, but you know how it is when you are friends the relationship becomes almost familiar and sexuality has nothing to do with such things, at least I think so, I have never fallen in love with my friends, indeed I have never fallen in love with anyone.
 
And then there is a guy sweet like a girl? Maybe if such a guy existed I could also fall in love with him, but I see certain guys that make just fall my arms, no sweetness at all, just superficiality and pure stupid brutality. In short, well, a gay doesn’t fall in love with all the guys but with only one, but the thing has just a statistical meaning, there are those who have had 10 guys and those (like me) who have not had and will not have not even one.
 
And if I stay alone (what is very likely because in terms of courage I’m a rabbit), gay and lonely! What a nice mixture! Wouldn’t it be better (fake) straight guy and alone! I could always say that I didn’t find the right woman, which is at least one thing that can be said. I am afraid, Project, to have put me on a path that will only bring me trouble. If I find a guy who loves me, ok, then it makes sense, but it’s something that seems very unlikely. The last doubt that came to me last night: are there many guys in my condition? And generally how does it end? Thanks for the patience, Project, I’ll contact you Friday night.
 
Italian Hamlet
p. s. If you think this email may make sense even for other people, post it in your blog.
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AFFECION FOR A GIRL AND LOVE FOR A GAY GUY

Hello everybody. 
If I can, I will insert myself in this discussion to contribute, even if in a very small part, to this topic. An experience of mine, more recent and personal, concerns the “risk” that I took in trying to attend a girl, a schoolmate of mine and now university mate. At that time I knew I was gay, I was aware of the attraction I felt towards guys. Although I’ve never had experiences in sexual chats, dating sites or anything like that, however, the temptation was always there, I cannot deny it. In short, the force of sexuality cannot be erased, I believe especially at my age. 
So, reflecting better, why did I try to start a story with a girl? Surely it happened because of an acceptance of my homosexuality not yet full and mature, (acceptance which perhaps is not yet perfect, but which I also believe does never materialize in a final point and rather consists of continuous changes, experiences and so on…) where being gay is not experienced as a natural condition, but as a burden or problem to be carried out, or worse to be solved. And an engagement, in such a condition, easily seems to solve all the problems; finally you can show others that you are straight, that you have no difficulty, no frailty. Suddenly the world seems to be easier and safer to live: you get engaged, then once you finish your studies you get married, somehow you go to live under a new roof, and you become a father. Oh yes, this is the central point: the desire for paternity. 
How much it weighs for a gay to know that you cannot become a father, not to be able to raise a child. Especially for those who dream of it since they were kids (I laugh at the thought, but for me it was so!) And then if you find a girlfriend you solve all the problems with your family. What I imagined in those moments was a less unequal relationship with my father (that unfortunately is very conflictual). A girl makes a man look stronger. I know it’s cynical and petty, but thinking about, I implicitly thought so. 
I liked this girl as a person, even if from a sexual point of view I didn’t feel attracted at all. Nevertheless I “declared” to her all my “love”, confessing to her that there was something on my side; in a sense it was true, but I didn’t consider sexuality in the slightest. I was denying myself pretending to be bisexual, therefore retaining the desire to be “a little” gay anyway. We went out twice together, two half days, I would say two beautiful days. A few handshakes, some hugs. I must be sincere? I have a happy memory of those moments. But false. False because it started from wrong, dishonest assumptions. I was constantly wondering how I could betray that girl from the beginning, founding a possible relationship on lies. I couldn’t tell her I was bisexual, because I had already understood that she wouldn’t accept it. I was about to imprison myself in a tunnel with no exit.
Looking back on it better, what attracted me most to her was her family. Yes, I’m not joking: two fantastic parents, fantastic from my point of view and also two older brothers who were really good people. I confess that I liked one of the two brothers. Here you can understand, what an idiot I was. … After two or three weeks, in which she went through a stormy period with the guy she had been with before we first met, she sent me an SMS where she basically downloaded me. I didn’t take it very badly, it was perhaps mostly my wounded pride to hurt me. Now I can understand how lucky I was, after all. I have not continued in the lie, I have not chained myself to a life that was not mine where I would have felt only trapped. I liked and still like this girl. But love is another thing; I didn’t feel “butterflies in my stomach” with her; a desire so deep to caress her body, to “taste” every inch of her skin, to live completely, soul and body, together, in a friendship such things there are not. 
Love is just another thing … I realize now that I have a life to build before me, neither society nor my family can or must do it in my place. I hope I have not said nonsense, and I also hope that my considerations are in no way offensive towards the married gays who wrote here before me. I am aware of what it means to be gay practically thanks to Gay Project forum, so … I don’t have much left to add, except that I would, of course, read some of your considerations! 
Thanks, see you soon. 
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GAY GUYS WHO HAVE A GIRLFRIEND

Hello Project,
I feel a little embarrassed to send you an email but the doubts are so many and I have to try to find answers because I don’t know who to turn to.
 
I’m 16 and a half years old. For more than a year I started to have doubts about my sexual orientation. I’m not afraid of being gay and if I’m gay I do not think I would have big problems with my family. My parents love me, probably nothing would change.
 
I started to masturbate at 13 and discovered masturbation by myself, without anyone’s suggestions. I did very little to understand that it was sex and that I was sexually developed. Before, for me, sexuality didn’t even exist, or rather there was sympathy for other guys and girls, but I didn’t really know what genital sexuality was.
 
At first, masturbation was just a pleasant physical fact, an interesting discovery by which I felt even more adult, but there was no real bond with sexual fantasies. Just a while later, between 14 and 15, came true sexual fantasies, and were all related to a guy, my teammate with whom I was training two afternoons a week.
 
At that time I played sports, although with many limits and went to the gym with a group of other guys and a coach. We had spaces and times dedicated to us, because we were still too young and were not allowed to enter the locker rooms when the gym was crowded by adults. In the locker room however we were alone, the coach was almost never there, but things were quick and I had never had sex fantasies of any kind, but, as I said, from 14 and a half, fantasies have come and with these also embarrassment because I was always about to get a hard-on and had to make great efforts to control it.
 
The gym has become a very important thing for me, I counted down the time missing to the next training and my masturbations were all related to what I saw in the locker room.
 
But then doubts have begun. I saw that the other guys took things completely differently, without any embarrassment and without any real interest. I quickly understood that what happened to me meant that I was gay.
 
In the beginning, this thing disturbed me a bit, but then, in a few days, I told myself that it had nothing to do with pathology and I overcome the problem. I have to say that I’ve learned at home the idea that being gay is not a disease, I learned it from my parents who have gay friends and defend their friends from stupid gossip of various kinds. Obviously from this point of view I was lucky. In practice, I realized I was gay and it did not make me any problem.
 
In a sense, my story matches the classic proceedings of gay recognition and acceptation described in your book.
 
When I was 15 years old, however, I found myself in situations that I had never taken into account. A girl, my schoolmate, began to show interest in me and I was grateful for it, not just because having a girl put me in a more adult position with my friends, but because with that girl I was fine, it was nice to talk to her.
 
She called me on the phone and we talked for hours, we joked about everything, we often went out together in the afternoon, me and her, without other people, in short I also started to have sexual reactions. I got hard-ons when she leaned on me, when she caressed my hand, and so on, slowly, but I must say, also pleasantly, we came to kiss each other, what I never imagined before.
 
The kisses were not bad, the hugs still better, so much that I started thinking that maybe I was falling in love with that girl, but something didn’t fit: I, gay, in love with a girl? Or maybe I was not gay? Now I keep going out with that girl and she calls me on the phone every day, I keep on getting hard-ons when we kiss or there’s a little direct physical contact, which is very common now. I tried to masturbate sexually thinking about that girl but the results were disappointing and then did some other doubts start.
 
In fact, that girl doesn’t attract me sexually, sometimes I think in a few years, I might also have a sexual relationship with her, but that’s what I think in theory because I never made sexual fantasies about her. It seems a disagreeable behavior, but I see her in the early afternoon and she, or probably the situation, excites me a bit, then later in the afternoon I go to the gym and when I come back home I masturbate always and only thinking of the guys I see in the gym, however, Project, I react sexually even with the girl and this should not happen, or maybe I didn’t understand how these things work.
 
My friends don’t react at all sexually with the boys, that is, they don’t react in situations that are very exciting for me. If I understand, a gay should not react with a girl, or maybe I’m a bit bisexual? This would create some problems because I could not have a really satisfying couple life.
 
Then there are a number of questions I would like to ask you:
(1) Do you think I should try with a girl?
(2) Do you think I am at least a bit bisexual?
(3) Do you think I hurt that girl staying with her because perhaps I deceive her?
 
I look forward to your answers, I would also like to know what the boys of the forum think.
Thanks. Manuel
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Hello Manuel, I’m not a doctor nor a psychologist but I deal with gay people for many years. You know that there are also gay guys who get married and have children, these guys have a heterosexual life with their wives that might seem normal, and often the wives are not even aware of having a gay husband. This means that a gay may well have sex with a woman and can even do it habitually. Being gay is not a question related to what is objectively done within a couple relationship, being gay is a matter of desire.
 
There are married gay men who have never had any sexual contact with a man and live a heterosexual life that has all the appearance of normality, but those married gays have a masturbation totally related to gay sexual fantasies. The object of their spontaneous sexual desire are not the wives but the guys who populate their sexual fantasies.
 
When couple sex behaviors are typically heterosexual but coexist with masturbation with exclusively gay fantasies, the true spontaneous sexual orientation is gay. Here bisexuality has nothing to do; a bisexual experiences real forms of sexual and emotional love, both for boys and girls. Keep in mind that of course a guy can really get a hard-on because he is in a situation of very strong intimacy with a girl, but when these experiences are soon forgotten and masturbation remains with gay fantasies, heterosexuality is a very unlikely hypothesis.
 
(1) Should you try with a girlfriend? So, in general, there is nothing that “must” be done and the only sensible behaviors are the spontaneous ones. If going with a girl is the fruit of a decision, that is, a way to test yourself, a test to evaluate your reactions when facing that girl, we are already out of the field of true sexuality. I would say that the very use of the verb “try” indicates that it is essentially a test that would be depressing both for you and for your girlfriend.
 
(2) I would exclude at all that you are bisexual, in your post there is nothing suggesting bisexuality.
 
(3) As to the fact that you are deluding that girl, I think it’s a fairly realistic hypothesis. There are girls who cultivate male friendships without any sexual purpose and have gay friends with whom they fully agree, but it is certainly not the general rule. And then the relationship you have with that girl does not have the typical features of a friendship. Frankly, I think she is very likely to consider you as her boyfriend and to expect you to behave sooner or later coherently with that role. I understand that the company of that girl may be pleasing, but your relationship might be based on a misunderstanding, and if so, it would be better to speak clearly, if possible, or keep away not to fuel further illusions.
Project
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