EVOLUTION OF AN INTERGENERATIONAL GAY COUPLE

Hi Project,

I think I’m more or less your age, or maybe I’m a bit older than you, I read some of your very melancholic post. You did a lot, you could have done something wrong, but only those who do nothing make no mistakes. I have never had online sites, such things are not things for me, but somehow I have also spent some very melancholic periods and I have thought several times I had done everything wrong, as you say, that I “have done damage” but then I have realized that it was not like that.

I would like to tell you a story of a relationship, as you call it, intergenerational and I tell you why. Looking for things that talk about intergenerational relationships I came across the forum, I discovered your manual Being Gay and I read the chapter dealing with these things and I was very impressed. However there is an aspect that is practically lacking at all and is that of the evolution of these relationships over time, you speak of the inevitable anticipated widowhood, and you’re right, however, you forget the fact that before you get to that point there are years to live, there is not only the phase of falling in love and that of widowhood but there is a phase of progressive maturation of the relationship and it is precisely on this that I would like to draw your attention, perhaps to exchange with you some ideas and to induce you to expand the discussion on “Being Gay”. This is not a reproach but you, Project, tend to see things with the eye of the younger partner, but a manual dealing with being gay can make sense even for an elder.

I start from my personal experience, which follows quite well the progresses of these relationships as you have outlined them. Between me and Leo (this is not his true name, but he would have liked to be called so) there is a huge age difference, 38 years. We met when he still had to get out of the school, I was an old man even then, and I was counting down on when I would retire, I had my friends, obviously I had never had sexual relations with anyone and I had practically archived the problem. My peers did not like me very much, the guys between the ages of 20 and 30 fascinated me but I strongly perceived the generational gap, I practically lived only for my job. I had some friends, work colleagues, actually just a couple, I esteemed them a lot, but they didn’t know anything about me, they had children and grandchildren and sure not enough time to spend for me.

My story with Leo started in an absolutely unexpected way, I was in the car and I stopped at a traffic light when I heard a bang. Leo had crashed with his bicycle into my car, he had also made a little damage on my car but with the blow he had fallen to the ground. I went down and pulled him up from the ground and sat him in the car. He told me that he would pay me all the damage, but I told him: “Meanwhile let’s go to the hospital, let’s see if there’s something broken” He admitted that the fault had been his, but my damage was really minimal. I loaded the bike in the car and went to the hospital, he asked me not to say that it was a car accident but only that he had fallen from the bicycle, when he arrived at the hospital he thanked me, asked me the phone number and gave me his and told me he would call me for the damage. Then he entered the emergency room. I waited for him outside.

He came out after almost 5 hours, I asked him if he had traumas or something broken and he said that there X-rays showed nothing. I told him that I would have liked to take him home, he started talking about the damage and I told him it was a minimal thing and that an extra scratch on my car (an old car) wouldn’t change anything. In the car he asked me if I knew someone who could fix his bicycle and I told him I’d have found someone able to fix the bicycle and I would have brought it back to him. He didn’t know whether to accept, then he told me: “Ok! Thank you.”

Three days later I bought a new bicycle, because it was impossible to fix the old one and I brought it to him. When he saw the new bicycle he immediately told me he couldn’t pay it and I told him that he did not have to pay anything, I thought he would be happy and instead he told me. “No, I cannot pay for it and I don’t want a gift like that.” I felt uncomfortable and didn’t know what to say. I just replied: “Ok, sorry, I didn’t really want to offend.” I reloaded the bike in the car and left. I thought it was all over. After almost a month he calls me, he asks me how much I had paid the bike, I tell him how much, he replies: “Ok, if you like, take it to the pyramid when you can” I took the bike to the pyramid and he gave me the money and told me: “You made me work for a month, but maybe it was worth it.” After the story of the bike we started to hear from each other often.

Then the sexual phase began very gradually, which lasted a little over three years, in practice, I feared that sex could destabilize our relationship, on the contrary I learned from him how much it can be important when it is something really desired by both partners. Then the thing went to fade, it was not completely lost and here began my scruples and the idea that Leo was wasting time because of me. During the university period he lived his stories, he spoke very little to me about such things but none of those stories ended up supplanting our story.

He was in crisis with his family, he spent critical moments with his studies and he has been very close to the idea of abandoning everything, he lost a lot of time, especially at the beginning, then he started to lengthen his pace, he concluded very well his studies and now works in a field that keeps him in tension, in short, he works and earns money but the work is certainly not his realization. He doesn’t have a partner, he has many friends and occasionally, when he can, he goes to visit them in various parts of Italy. Between us we are in a phase that I would call familiar, the relationship between us has nothing to do with a classic gay couple relationship, we are like father and son and it is really a beautiful thing.

Among us sex is a possibility left theoretically open, which in some rare cases is realized, but increasingly rarely and is in practice only a way that he uses to make me understand that he doesn’t feel repulsed by me, but now certainly sex is no longer what sustains our relationship. We often talk on the phone, we also tell each other the deepest melancholies, when he sends me text messages, sometimes (not always) he concludes with “I love you!” And it is not just an expression of courtesy. Now Leo is 32 and I’m really an old man, I turned 70 recently, Leo is quiet, he calls me, he comes to see me, he doesn’t have a stable boyfriend but I see him serene. I can’t deny that I still have a thousand scruples because I think that perhaps I have moved him away from a couple life with a peer and I could even have ruined his life, not by my choice but because I offered him an easy affective reference.

He has never seen things this way, what he tells me about it is more or less this: “I didn’t feel bound by you, I tried to build other stories and a couple of times even with guys I was in love with, but then it did not work with them, while so many years have passed with you and nothing has ever collapsed. You didn’t stop me, you haven’t conditioned me!” In essence, now, Leo considers me a father, when we go around together people always take him for my son. I can say that I like this phase of our relationship very much. It is suitable for my age, it is not a renunciation, it is not at all, I feel in the right dimension. I see him often but not every day, because we don’t live together and also because he must have its freedom, because he could find tomorrow the boyfriend he hasn’t found up until now (and in a sense I hope it happens),
but I feel him close to me all the same, we no longer ask each other questions, everything is spontaneous, there is no longer the risk of making mistakes.

Of course we are no longer a couple for a long time but we love each other. Leo, who is always very serious and almost professional with others, is affectionate, tender, I would say also happy when he is with me, and he seems to me quite serene and I think he feels completely at ease. Seeing Leo serene is a dream that has come true, maybe I would like better to see him happy with a guy who loves him. I think that now I can calmly leave this world too, because I see happy the only guy I really loved and who loved me. I believe that an intergenerational relationship that arrives at this stage gives the best of itself. There will also be widowhood, of course I hope as late as possible, but I somehow realized my dream of being father and Leo found a dad who loves him unconditionally! In practice we have built a family. I am grateful to Leo because he gave a radical change to my life and led me to be a happy man.

Since he was a guy, Leo has sought love and this has not only happened with me. Often people have tried to ask him or rather to impose him some conditions, to create obligations beforehand, to bring Leo back to the more or less classic rules of the couple and it all ended before starting because you cannot take him on a leash, he was born free, he cannot depend on anyone, to love you he needs to feel free. Now I feel a bit like an old dad and I start trusting him more than me, if I have to make a serious decision I consult with him, and he, instead of immediately giving me an answer, makes me speak to understand what I would do, and then, in practice, he always tells me that I’m right. Only on one thing he is a despot, on my health, I spontaneously tend to stay away from the doctors and take a somewhat fatalistic attitude, that’s why he books my visits and takes me to the doctors. I know that these are the attentions usually reserved to an old man, but to an old beloved man. I’ve never fixed the scratch that Leo made with his bicycle on the trunk of my car, when I see that scratch I smile and I feel like a happy old dad.

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INTERGENERATIONAL GAY RELATIONSHIPS WITHOUT SCHEMES

Hi Project,
I read the chapter on the intergenerational relationships of the manual Being Gay and I was amazed first of all because you have treated the subject, which is generally never taken seriously even by gays, and then because what I read corresponds quite well to my experience, in the sense that I saw in many documents quoted on the manual the same doubts and the same attitudes that I had myself, and then I noticed that here and there scattered in the forum, I can see traces of intergenerational relationships in some way similar to what I experienced and I’m living even now.

I am 56 years old, my name is Peter, I’m not yet old and all in all, physically, I’m still quite handsome (even if I should not be the one who says it), I’m sporty, I do sports regularly, I’m attentive to nutrition and until today I have not had serious illnesses, this pushes me to consider myself somehow still young. Of course, ten years ago I was already a mature man, but at that time I was really almost a young man, people believed that I was much younger than I really was, and at the age of 46 I met Dario (fancy name) who was 19. I, gay, or rather a gay who had put aside the idea of finding a mate, because for me being gay, at that time, it meant just finding a partner, anyway I had almost stopped looking around.

One evening I was invited to a graduation party, I go there because I knew the guy who had graduated. While I was there Dario arrives. Saying that he was beautiful it is reductive, I had never seen a guy like him, with a smile so bright, tall, blond, with blue eyes. When I saw him I thought only one thing: “What a beautiful guy!” I didn’t even think of approaching him, it was obvious that he was very young, I was only sorry to be too old. I did everything to distract myself and think of something else. I have not danced, because I never dance, I chatted a bit with the guy who had graduated, then I sat to observe.

Dario too didn’t dance, he didn’t court girls, it was the girls who were courting him, the guys didn’t even really consider him. At one point he looks me straight in the eyes, I feel like a very strong twinge, he leaves the group of girls and comes to sit next to me and tells me: “I know you’re bored! I see it!” I just smile a bit, then we exchange a few words, he notices that I’m almost embarrassed and introduces himself, I do the same, we talk a few more minutes of this and that, then he pulls out of the pocket a piece of paper, he writes his name on it and his cell phone number and passes it to me, then asks me: “Can I have yours?” I say to him: “Of course!” but I must have said it with the light in the eyes, and he replies with a wonderful smile, then returns to the small group of girls, who complain that they have been abandoned, he says that he had to say hello to an old friend (me), and returns to his previous conversations. Shortly before midnight he sits down next to me, asks me if I have a car, I say yes and he asks if I can take him home, I say to him: “Of course!” And this time too I must have told it with a lot of enthusiasm. He answers me with his usual smile. He greets his friends who thought he would stay with them until late, then we leave.

He lives far away, but not too much, 20 minutes later we are at our destination. During the trip at the beginning we talk about banalities, then, when we are almost at the destination, out of the blue he asks me: “Are you gay?” I feel my face burn with shame and embarrassment then I answer: “Yes! … ” before I can add anything else, he says: “Me too!” But he adds that it is late and that he must go home but that he will call me soon. He greets me without even shaking hands and beckons me to leave immediately. I perform.

As I go back to my house I feel dazed, I would never (and I say never) thought that something like this could happen: a 19-year-old guy who out of the blue asks a man 46 years old if he is gay and asks him it because a few minutes of dialogue were enough for him to understand it. Of course my fantasy starts to run at high speed, but then I say to myself: “What are you thinking about! Stop there! Dario is a boy!” At home I do everything not to think about him, but I feel distraught because he is not just a guy, a lot of girls run after him and I think also guys, but he confronts me with that sharp question : “Are you gay?” … and he is gay too …. Why does he ask me it? He can have all the guys he wants … why does he tell me it? Also his friends would have given him the passage in the car but he had asked for it no one else than me.

The day after he doesn’t call me, and I feel in bad shape, I had waited for that phone call but it hadn’t arrived, I was really depressed, completely on the ground, I felt like a fool and felt deluded. After midnight he calls me and says: “I didn’t call you to see if you would have called me but you didn’t call me! You probably don’t care about me!” We talked almost until dawn, it was evident that there was a total complicity between us and not because we were two gays. He told me that when he went to visit one of his friends he was fascinated by this friend’s father and he described him to me, but in practice he didn’t describe that man, it was me the one he was describing, and added: “But he was hetero …” And after a few seconds he added: “But you are not!” Now the speech was clear. We began to see each other every day, without sex, we talked a lot, we went to go shopping, we used to eat a sandwich together, he was happy, I thought that in that way, I mean without sex, we could have gone on forever, but I was wrong. He saw farther than me and in a few months we got to have sex.

His involvement was total, my somehow reticent, I had begun to love him because between us there was not only sex, we talked very much, he was looking for a comparison but he had his ideas in mind and had a very strong personality. We told each other our lives even in the most intimate aspects, my life was basically a void, there was so much imagination but nothing real, while his was much more complicated, things that I never imagined and that have conditioned him a lot.

I felt I was not the best for him, but this seemed to him to be quite relative, he fell in love with young guys several times and I often encouraged him, but those stories didn’t last long and finally we came together apparently just for reasons of sex but actually because between us there was a form of deep symbiosis. Sometimes he called me in the middle of the night and told me to go to his house, I went there, he went down into the street and we stayed in the car, he started crying, told me about his disappointments, then we made love, but in the end he repented and felt dirty, he wasn’t angry with me but with himself, but he needed to be accepted, loved, he also told me of disturbing aspects of his personality and he did it thinking that I would go away but I not only didn’t leave but I thought he really was trusting me without reservation. Now Dario is almost 30 years old, after a course of studies initially not simple, conditioned mainly by emotionality, he is now finishing his PhD in a very particular scientific discipline and is really appreciated by his colleagues and so he also regained a lot of self-esteem, which has always been his weak point.

He recently lived a long and serious love affair with a guy he was deeply in love with, but in the end that guy dumped him and he felt very bad. During that time we saw each other a lot less, now we have started seeing each other again almost every week, on Sunday, we spend the day together, we talk a lot and we also do a bit of sex but everything is very natural, we don’t ask ourselves too many questions. With me he is really unleashed, which I don’t think he does with the guys he is in love with, it is as if with those guys he especially sought the affective side and with me the sexual one, also because those guys are looking for him especially for sex while I I’m looking for his proximity and human warmth, and even for sex, of course, but sex has never been my obsession. When I’m with him I try to limit the contacts to non-risky behaviors or to those at very low risk, he initially seemed puzzled and used to do a little scene before sex because he felt braked, but then he ended up accepting limitations rather willingly, or at least without too many problems. He doesn’t have a boyfriend but I think he has other people (few and always the same) with whom he has sex from time to time. He says he doesn’t love emotional relationships and only seeks sex from me, but in fact, after 10 years, we continue to see each other and when we are together we are really free and happy at all levels. We know each other well both sexually and in personal history. I’ve never talked about this story with people I know, never at all, I live alone, so I don’t have problems with the family, I just have to be a bit careful my gossipy neighbors, because it happens that Dario comes to my house even late at night and leaves the next morning.

Basically, about this story I cannot talk with anyone, I mean talking directly about myself, but it happened to me once, only once, to hear a talk on this subject made by guys I think were gay, and I was very embittered, they pronounced ferocious judgments, rulings without appeal without understanding absolutely nothing, they had their gay couple model in mind and everything that was not on that track they considered it pathological. With Dario I don’t live anything like the gay couple relationship they have in mind, but I live a relationship that makes sense, I don’t feel frustrated at all nor did I feel jealous when he had a boyfriend, between us there is also sex, but I think it has above all the sense of the confirmation of the fact that there is an affective relationship between us of which we never speak, but perhaps it is better, because it is not the words that count. I would not want anything different from what I receive from him.

This is the relationship between us, but it has been working for 10 years now, it is not a fairy tales story, but frankly I wouldn’t change it with anything in the world. I think of him a thousand times a day and I don’t think only of sex but I think above all of his successes, his self-esteem, his dignity, the fact that he built himself by himself, that he never enslaved himself to anyone or anything, he never felt fascinated by money, he has never hurt anyone. And then, if I think he trusts me (and on the other hand I trust him the same way) I feel proud. I think that our relationship is really a way to love each other, a way that is absolutely out of scheme but it’s a way. The thing I have always admired most in him is his clear speech, not using too many words and saying even brutally what he thinks. In practice we have never quarreled, we said goodbye dozens of times but then we forgot it because the sense of being together was strong beyond any convention.
In conclusion, Project, what do you think about?
Peter62

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DOUBTS OF A GAY 40-YEAR-OLD

Hello Project, I feel a bit strange to write you some things but I don’t know what to do and I would like to have the ideas a little clearer. I am 40 years old, I am gay and I have always been gay but only in the sense that my sexual fantasies have always been about guys. In practice with the female universe I don’t have and never had any relationship not even of superficial significance. Nothing against women, for heaven’s sake, but they are not my thing. But my being gay never, and I repeat never, went beyond individual fantasy. I spent periods during adolescence when I repressed myself heavily, a little conditioned by the family, a bit by religion and a bit by complexes of various kinds, I basically removed the idea of having a true relationship (I don’t even tell sexual) with another guy. Already from the time of school it was all a flee and put the idea aside. Maybe it was also good.

My first falling in love, if I had declared it, would surely have put me in great difficulty. My last year of school I fell in love with a new guy who arrived in my class and getting rid of him cost me dear, now this guy is married and has two children and I’m happy to have kept my feelings for me.

The university was a succession of love affairs blossomed and then finished before beginning. My faculty was predominantly attended by guys and for me that period could, in theory, be wonderful, but it was not. Of course there were gay guys but it was impossible to find them, when I thought I understood that a guy was gay, the obvious proof of the contrary came to me. In practice I focused on the study, I graduated very well and I immediately found work, among other things a job that I like, well paid even if very demanding. My work environment is predominantly made of guys, they are all young engineers, mostly under 30, I belong to the seniors.

My colleagues at work only talk about work, here professionalism is mandatory and letting yourself go to personal speeches is considered a dangerous weakness for the career. When we do our business dinners it’s a real liturgy, there are the great bosses and my colleagues are all present with a wives or a girls in a long dress. So here what is worthy of consideration is just the image and to make a career you have to be formal and that’s it, there is no room for friendship at any level but only for the competition. Among other things, my colleagues, even those who are objectively handsome, seem to me well programmed puppets, among other things with a critical spirit only at the technical level and aimed only at the career and otherwise stereotyped up to the incredible. So let’s say that for me the working environment is completely neutral, and now I come to the central question.

This year I was, like every year, at the beach with my parents. If I told my colleagues something like that I would disqualify because it’s just a piece of beach, nothing extraordinary. My parents have a little house near the sea, you just leave the house and in practice you’re on the beach. There are few people on weekdays but on Sundays there are groups with cars and there are a lot of people. One Sunday I stood there under the umbrella reading some papers looking for some clever ideas to spend at work, when a group of young people, 20/21 years, arrives, they take off their shirts and start playing volleyball a few meters from me, so far there is little to say, it often happens.

One of these guys immediately strikes me: tall, blond, smiling, I remain to observe him because he exerts a powerful attraction on me. I tell myself: what a beautiful guy! Lucky him! Apart from my 40 years, I don’t have and I have never had anything to be considered a beautiful guy or even an average one. I could not stare at that guy for too long because I didn’t want him to notice it, but he enchanted me, even the voice seemed beautiful to me. I went back to reading my papers but my ear was fixed on the voices of those guys. At one point I got a ball in the head that made my book fly.

That guy told me, some days after, that throw of the ball was not accidental. He approaches, apologizes by friendly as if we had known each other forever, and takes the ball. The match ends, his friends go to take a bath, he doesn’t go, as he doesn’t have an umbrella and asks if he can put himself under mine, I say “Sure!” He smiles at me, then asks me what I’m reading, in short at the end of that Sunday we exchanged the cell phones and the msn contacts. He was a guy so radically different from my colleagues that he left his mark, apart from the fact that he was very young and didn’t feel conditioned at all for this. I knew I would see him at most another time on the following Sunday, then I would have resumed work and it would all end there. I come back home at night, add his contact on msn, he’s online and we talk for three hours. In practice for the first time in my life I talk to someone who listens to me for non-professional reasons. The conversation is serious, not intrusive, it also intrigues me from this point of view.

He’s terribly direct, he says what it thinks even brutally and doesn’t forgive me any banality. I’m amazed at his intelligence and his ability to go all the way. He takes no more than a week to tell me that he’s gay, but he doesn’t make me the usual speech, like: “Now if you want, I can disappear from your life!”, no! Instead, he takes it for granted that I’m gay and tells me: “But I see that you threw it all on study and career”. No need to tell him that I was gay, he had understood it perfectly and also several other things. We chatted for hours and hours all week, he didn’t come to the sea the following Sunday but he had told me it before.

Seeing the group of his friends without him made me feel a terrible melancholy and I also told him and, as usual, he was not surprised, he just replied: “Well, I had expected it, but if you want we can meet tomorrow afternoon.” I told him that I leave work at 5.15 pm and then I go to a big supermarket outside the city to do some shopping. We went to the supermarket together. It was a beautiful afternoon, I was falling in love with that guy and he was not pulling back. The next week we went shopping again, but this time in the car he took my hand and for me it was something upsetting. He held my hand tight to make me feel that he was there and that he wanted to be there. Project, that’s how I started going into crisis.

I took him home without saying a word. Before getting out of the car he asked me: “Are you angry?” I replied: “No, but I’m worried!” And he: “Well that’s natural!” Then he pinched my cheek and went down. I was happy but a bit dazed, I would have never expected something like that.

In the following days he tells me about his impossible love stories and about the tremendous frustrations he had to endure and wants me to tell him about my impossible stories, then, as if it were obvious (maybe it was) he tells me he had masturbated thinking of me and he wants to know my reactions about this fact. I tell him I’m a little surprised, because I think he certainly has a lot of better fantasies to think about, but he asks me in a very direct way: “And you, did you masturbate thinking of me?” I try t digress but he says seemingly angry: “Answer me!” I tell him to yes, and he tells me he cannot stand my hypocritical attitudes. I feel a little uncomfortable but he doesn’t give me respite and tells me: “Do not pose as a victim! If you like it you like it!” I begin to be afraid that the relationship with this guy can be something that goes out of control. I tell him that he needs something else and that I don’t want to bind anyone, he gets angry, he tells me that I’m just a hypocrite and that he has thought about age, he’s not in love with me but he loves me, but for him I’m also an important person on a sexual level. I try to run away, I start to be really afraid of not understanding where the story is going to end.

In the following days we meet several times, I tell him a thousand times that I’m perplexed, that I’m too old but little by little we also create a minimum of physical contact, which if on one side sends me into ecstasy, for the other upsets me. He told me it cannot end this way and wants to be with me and I think it’s true. He told me and repeated that he had never been with anyone and wanted to know if it was the same for me, he concluded that there were no risks of any kind and that then in practice even a behavior at zero risk it would be enough for him. He tells me that when he is near me he feels very strong physical attraction.

Now we are at this point. What have I to do, Project? I cannot deny that I’m totally in love but the complications are many, he is very young, I don’t say it because I’m afraid that one day or the other he can go away, but because I don’t want to affect his life. I love him deeply because he is as I wanted to be and I have never been.

Project, I’m afraid of embarking on a business too big for me, which I think I cannot handle. If he were one of my peers, maybe in a slightly disengaged story I would have felt more at ease, but so, with a 20-year-old guy who is terribly smarter than I was at his age, I feel displaced. And if in two or three months I don’t feel like it? I cannot leave him half way. I really, now at least, I don’t feel the age difference too much as an obstacle, we have both reflected, then there is that speech of “I’m not in love with you but I love you” which means that I’m not really what he is looking for. Then that phrase he tried to dilute it, to devalue it, but he told me that he is not in love with me, but deep down I too don’t feel in love with him overwhelmingly and the fact is that I love him above all.

That I can be infatuated with a handsome guy 20 years old is already quite strange, but perhaps it is something that can be understood, but what can he find in someone like me? He can find as many guys as he wants a hundred times better than me, when he tried he got only refusals, but in the future he will know many guys. I wonder what he wants from me, that is exactly from me, because it seems to me that he cares a lot. Among other things, he has a dignity in his abrupt manner that so many of my colleagues would not even be able to conceive, they would call it naivety, because in our environment guys don’t even know what dignity is. But how does a 40-year-old take a crush like that for a 20-year-old guy? I feel really split in two but I know that I will have to decide. Project, but if I give in to him and also to myself, is not that I’m really doing something bad? I don’t say this on a moralistic level, but I have many doubts.

Alyosha answers: But what a very simple question! … As if you could do anything else. He told you that you were an hypocrite, but he used the wrong adjective, he would have had to say incoherent, because it’s clear that your reasoning goes in one direction and your whole body and your spirit in the other and the more your spirit comes close to him the more your reasoning becomes evanescent. I could also waste time giving you a thousand good reasons why you should say yes, but I’m intimately persuaded that while you wonder whether it is right or not, the main decision has already been made. A good old friend of mine said that the owl of Minerva begins its flight on the twilight, meant that the reflection and awareness of the movements that happen comes only at the end, when in fact those movements have concluded their work in the underground and the things that incubated in his womb are about to sprout. In short, the blooming, although it is the beginning of something completely new, is only seen at the end. See, you’ve already answered a thousand times. You answered yes when you stared intensely at him without literally being able to take your eyes off him, you said yes when he asked you to get under your umbrella, yes when he asked if he could give you his number, yes when his hand has begun to tighten yours and you will continue to say yes all the other times, for the simple reason that there is not even an alternative for you. So that’s why it’s worth turning the question to the contrary … Why not? So enjoy the moment, it couldn’t happen anything better. He has already colored your gray life full of mannequins with starched collars.

Nicomaco answers: I don’t think I’m the most suitable to give advice or make profound evaluations, because, despite having an age similar to yours, I have always lived among peers and I fell in love (when I fell in love) with peers or almost. .. (they are things that happen). Let me be clear: I’m not at all opposed to relationships of love between people so distant in age. Beautiful stories can be read in the Project. It seems to me, however, that some greater difficulties such relationships can create at the level of social acceptance (even in this forum, sometimes they have been mentioned). But I believe that the only way to overcome these difficulties depends on the awareness, the serenity and the determination with which a relationship of this kind is lived and the difficulties are faced together. And here is an element that struck me in your story. It seems to me that there is not much symmetry between feelings, emotions, desires and projects between you. On the other hand, symmetry seems essential to building a relationship of love. You are faced with an unexpected and disturbing situation, also because your life is very “structured”. You’re not in love with him, but you say you still loves him. He seems a lot smarter, less problematic, he told you that he is not in love with you, but that he loves you and that he is attracted physically. I can easily believe it because at 20 (if I think of my life) the “physical” (and hormonal) element has a considerable weight (as it should be). You wonder how he feels attracted to you but I would say that the question is a bit naive. There is no model of physical beauty that has in itself the magnet of attraction. Personally in the past I was struck (even from the point of view, so to say, “erotic”) by guys who you could consider nice, clever, whatever you want, but who weren’t beautiful according to widespread models. My impression is that if you really care about that guy, you and he still have to work on it for a while. And then I think a lot depends on what you want to do with this relationship. It may be that the situation become rebalanced and allows you to build a deep love relationship. But I think it takes time and you need a lot of patience. Or it may be that the balance could not achieved and then I would say that maybe you should be making a decision for him too.

pavloss answers: I will be short. If you, in the grip of your doubts and in order to return to your tasteless and odorless world, will say to that guy: “no, go away!”, You will spend the rest of your days repenting. When love knocks on our door, it can also be that we are not ready. But if we wait to be ready before it knocks, it will never knock.

ignis answers: Given that he is “terribly smart”, I think he would not have exposed himself if he hadn’t well evaluated all the situation. To encourage him to look for someone else seems to me the worst conclusion.

Yin-Yang replies: Hello! I read your post several times to understand all the mechanisms that haunt you, first of all the fear of falling and hurting you badly when the story will come to an end. Don’t forget, however, that it may even go differently and that the story could last longer than you hope or fear. At 40 you have a more mature vision of life but certainly more pessimistic because being gay at that age and not having a steady partner is equivalent to being alone forever … However you were lucky and you met someone who saw inside you better than you’ve ever done before. I don’t have much to say about it but my motto has always been “carpe diem” for this I dedicate to you this poem by Pablo Neruda:

“Die slowly

He who becomes the slave of habit,
who follows the same routes every day,
who never changes pace,
who does not risk and change the color of his clothes,
who does not speak and does not experience,
dies slowly.

He or she who shuns passion,
who prefers black on white,
dotting ones “it’s” rather than a bundle of emotions, the kind that make your eyes glimmer,
that turn a yawn into a smile,
that make the heart pound in the face of mistakes and feelings,
dies slowly.

He or she who does not turn things topsy-turvy,
who is unhappy at work,
who does not risk certainty for uncertainty,
to thus follow a dream,
those who do not forego sound advice at least once in their lives,
die slowly.

He who does not travel, who does not read,
who does not listen to music,
who does not find grace in himself,
she who does not find grace in herself,
dies slowly.

He who slowly destroys his own self-esteem,
who does not allow himself to be helped,
who spends days on end complaining about his own bad luck, about the rain that never stops,
dies slowly.

He or she who abandon a project before starting it, who fail to ask questions on subjects he doesn’t know,
he or she who don’t reply when they are asked something they do know,
die slowly.

Let’s try and avoid death in small doses,
reminding oneself that being alive requires an effort far greater than the simple fact of breathing.

Only a burning patience will lead
to the attainment of a splendid happiness.”

Good luck!!

____________

If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-doubts-of-a-gay-40-year-old

REGRETS AND GAY MORALITY

Hello Project, I think I have more or less your age, I’m 61. It’s a while I read the forum and I’m fond of it but also it makes me feel a huge melancholy.

My story is simple because in practice, at the beginning in a less conscious way, but then from 14 years more clearly, I no longer had any doubt, 47 years ago, in 1963! Almost half a century of gay life, so to speak, in practice half a century of dreams and nothing. I have always wondered why we cannot live our lives, because others are afraid of us, but I have never been able to understand it, why couldn’t I fall in love with another guy? What would I have done wrong? Of ignorance you can even die, it simply happened to me not to live my life but to live another one.

At 23 I had also found a serious girl who loved me and I was about to take the step of marriage. Today I cannot say if it would have been good or bad, maybe I would have children now, I would have children of 36/37 years and maybe even grandchildren but I would have had to live a life not mine, maybe now I wouldn’t have a life of loneliness but I would have had a false life, in fact, not mine. Not that I had a life of mine, but at least I was not forced to accept a role that doesn’t belong to me.

Now I’m alone. I have relatives but I don’t see them except on occasions, at some wedding or funeral, at Easter and at Christmas. If I look back I don’t know what to think, could I have done another life? But which one? Years ago it was almost impossible and now I’m almost at the finish line. If I take stock of my life it has been a failure, a bit from all points of view. Even now, in fact, I survive with a thousand ailments and with little money, it’s enough, for charity, but in short, I arrived at sunset and I did not finish anything. I’ve never had a story, just once I happened to be close to such a thing.

I had just turned 50 and a guy 20 years old fell in love with me (and I with him) but I was scared and I pretended nothing but I should say that I did it by choice, in order not to hurt him, because he was a really good guy and he loved me in an incredible way.

Our story has never begun and this is the only serious regret of my life. I asked myself a thousand times if I did well and frankly I cannot give an answer, so, rationally, in the abstract I should say yes and be proud of what I did or rather I didn’t do, but frankly I thought many times (although 10 years have passed) of having committed a serious mistake, both for him and for me. I saw another time this guy last year, now in his thirties, we talked a few minutes at the station and I was totally upset, he didn’t want to talk about himself but it was clear that he wasn’t happy.

With me he was very affectionate, almost on the verge of crying. I asked him for his cell phone number but he didn’t want to give it to me and he told me that he didn’t want to put me in trouble and then he hugged me almost violently, very intensely, and got on the train. We stayed to say hello until the train left. I came home with a terrible melancholy inside me.

I go back to the station whenever I can, at the same hour to see if he is there, if it takes the same train, but I’ve never seen him. I think I made the biggest mistake of my life with him because I didn’t act instinctively, but I got carried away by moralism. Of course, the difference in age between us would have been enormous but I think I would have loved him and about the fact that he would have loved me I have no doubt.

Certain choices that look like the right ones in the abstract can not only be wrong for us, but they can also be very bad for others. I came to the conclusion that I imposed that moralism on that guy and that I ruined his life, and he’s a guy who hugged me like no one had ever done before. I think if I could go back, I would behave in another way. I would still like to tell him that I love him! Even if it makes no sense because I have already ruined his life. Project, publish this email, if you consider it appropriate. I’d like him to read it.

I know that the guys of the forum might not like this email but what I say is absolutely true and I have experienced it and I experience it every day on my skin, true love cannot be reconciled with moralism, it’s absolutely something else.

Thanks, Project, and best wishes for your project!

___________

If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-regrets-and-gay-morality

A GAY COUPLE 27 YEARS TOGETHER

Dear Project,

I read the discussion “Do the ideas change?” And I think I have to say something about the relationship between people of very different ages . I write to you, Project, then you see what to do with my mail, if you think it’s appropriate, include it in the discussion because I would like to know what the guys think. Naturally, I’m especially interested in what you think about it, because, from the chapter of “Being gay” that you have dedicated to this topic, I think it is not the first time you are faced with situations of this kind. So, let’s get to the point.

I’m 49 years old, at 20 I fell in love with a man much older than me, who was 57, although youthful appearance. My “he” (I will call him Renzo) died two years ago and I miss him terribly. We have been together for 27 years, we have had so many problems, especially due to the fact that people don’t accept this type of relationship and don’t understand that they can be relationships of love in the true sense of the word.

We also had our misunderstandings and in 27 years it happened several times, but then we always came back together because we were well together. I loved Renzo but I didn’t look for a father, at least I never saw him like that, there was a real complicity between us, a way of understanding each other that I think was unique. At the beginning it was difficult because he wanted to keep a certain distance, he felt old and didn’t want to make me any kind of obligations and he didn’t understand that he didn’t create anything of that kind.

We were a couple in the most beautiful sense of the term, even if at the beginning we had to hide because my family would never have accepted a story like ours. For me it was a total reference point, first he taught me to live and then he also taught me to die with dignity and, I would say, with serenity. In the last period he often told me that his life had been a happy life because he had met me, he also told me that he was not afraid of death, that it is a natural thing and that an old man can prepare himself to this event slowly. He never complained, it was he who gave courage to me.

For us there were no civil marriages and for this reason he thought in advance to leave me his assets before they ended up in the hands of distant relatives who had never dealt with him. He did these things with the utmost commitment, I tried to remove the idea of his death but he treated it with clarity, preparing everything with the utmost care. The last days I stayed with him at the hospital even in the night, he was very weak but he always tried to smile at me and I used to held his hand. Unfortunately I was not close to him at the end because they brought him to intensive care and when they let me in he was already dead.

I did everything according to his instructions. At the funeral there were no relatives, he had only distant cousins who hadn’t even been informed, at the funeral there were only a few common friends, among the very few who knew everything about us. He explicitly forbade me from mourning and told me that in my life nothing had to change, he also forbade me to go to the cemetery more than once a year.

After the funeral I felt very bad, right on the verge of deep depression and bad ideas started to go through my head, but he had warned me and had insisted very much in order to push me to do something “good” and I remembered it and started to volunteer during my free time. I would have devoted myself to the elderly but I have been assigned to manage a small clinic (I’m a doctor), for those who cannot even pay the ticket. When we met, Renzo was doing something similar (he too was a doctor) and it seemed strange to me at that time, but then I started to understand the value of these things. Sometimes they called him the night for an emergency and we used to go together.

He did not spare himself, and if he understood that people could not pay, he did his duty completely free. He didn’t go to church, but if anyone needed him, he didn’t hold back and did his best to help him. He was a good man, he thought more of others than himself. I miss Renzo badly, I feel a vacuum inside and I never fell in love with anyone else. I remember how he knew how to reassure me, how he could make me reason when doubts about a thousand things invaded me, especially about the profession. I felt unsuitable, too inadequate to be a doctor and he told me that I was a very serious and competent doctor.

In short, today, two years later, I still feel close to him. I lived the life I wanted. At first he was reluctant, he could hardly believe it, then he saw that I really loved him and he felt completely free. Among us there was also sex, of course, and even in the sex I felt that he tried to make me feel comfortable and make me feel good. He was a profoundly good man, a little like I wanted to be, and this has me pushed to fall in love with him. We loved each other and I think I would never have found happiness if I had not met him. I know very well that for many people what I wrote is pathological but for me it was the true happiness of life.

Vale

______________

If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-a-gay-couple-27-years-together

GAY LOVE BETWEEN A TWENTY-YEAR-OLD AND A FORTY-YEAR-OLD

Chat of June 24th  2008, 3.00 pm. 

– MaxMi wrote: Hi Project, are you there? 
– project wrote: Hi Max !!! How are you? 
– MaxMi wrote: Do you have some time for me? 
– project wrote: Of course, everything you want 
– MaxMi wrote: Meanwhile, thank you for sending me your contact, I often read the forum and for me it was very useful 
– project wrote: Thanks! You’re telling me something very rewarding! 
– MaxMi wrote: But that’s right! Project, wait, if you agree, I go straight to the point because I need to talk to someone about what’s happening to me. In short, I fell in love, this is the problem! 
– project wrote: I wish all the problems were so! 
– MaxMi wrote: well, wait, there is some problem, he is 20 and I’m 41, almost 42! 
– project wrote: Well, from what you say I see that you are anxious and that you see it as a problem. If you want to make me understand things a little more from the inside, you can try to tell me how it happened. 
– MaxMi wrote: In fact, that’s why I called you. If you want I start. 
– project wrote: Sure, go! But, please, start from the assumption that I don’t know anything about it and that I don’t know you at all. 
– MaxMi wrote: Yes of course. Then if there are things you don’t understand and you want to know, stop me and ask me whatever you want. But before you start, I have just a question to ask you, do you also talk to people my age? Because I feel a bit anxious. 
– project wrote: Max, look, most of the guys who contact me are from 16 to 30 years old. In general, with guys between 22/23 and over, we face less simple problems. Let’s say the 40-year-olds are quite rare, but I’ve known dozens of them anyway. 
– MaxMi wrote: And about what did they talk to you? I mean, were there any who had fallen in love with young guys? 
– project wrote: Of course there were, it happened and not so rarely 
– MaxMi wrote: And how did you behave? I mean, what did you tell them? 
– project wrote: Max, it’s not me the one who finds answers to the problems, only the guys can find them – if they find them – the guys who talk to me. 
– MaxMi wrote: In a sense it is true, but one sometimes doesn’t know how to behave, and it happens that a guy does terrible messes and I know that I have already made terrible messes. But I need to know what you think about it because I have made a decision and I know that I made a mess even worse. 
– project wrote: However, Max, now try to make me understand because I don’t even vaguely know what we’re talking about. 
– MaxMi wrote: Ok, I start. His name is Mark. I have a blog about motorcycles, my fixed idea since I was a boy. The blog is nice and many guys visit it, so let’s say that I keep it for motorcycles and a bit because some guys interested in motorcycles contact me and with the excuse of motorcycles I can maybe spend an afternoon near a nice guy. But don’t think badly, it’s not a bait at all! It can have happened in 5 years no more than 30 times. One afternoon spent chatting and that’s it. 
– project wrote: But do you have a partner? 
– MaxMi wrote: No, and I’ve never had one. Wait, don’t be scared, I had never made love with anyone until I was 41. There is internet and it was enough for me, I don’t know if you understand me. 
– project wrote: Yes, but do you live alone? 
– MaxMi wrote: yes, but I never took those guys to my house, only at the bar to have an aperitif, then at most in the car to talk, but rarely. I feel really clumsy with sex. 
– project wrote: Ok, but we’ll talk about this later, now go ahead with the story. 
– MaxMi wrote: At the end of February, in practice it is 4 months today, I find a comment on my blog and as a avatar there was a photo of a guy. I looked at the picture and I thought that guy was really beautiful. I clicked the photo and opened his blog, there too a lot of motorcycles! He was a fan like me! The comment he had written was very competent and, let’s face it, he was beautiful. I go to see his photos. I don’t tell you how I felt! He was a bit the guy I had always dreamed of, not only beautiful but very sweet. I thought if he had been gay, it would have been very interesting. Are you there Project? 
– project wrote: Sure, go ahead. 
– MaxMi wrote: I read the blog from top to bottom, and what a beautiful pictures: he alone and not only, in some photos he embraced some girls, but not always to the same girl. You know, the clinical eye! Reading his blog I was looking for items to understand if he was gay or not. There were no gay elements but there are not even clearly straight elements. I decided to write him an email. Can I send it to you? 
– project wrote: Yes, of course. 
 
ATTACHMENT: Hi Marco, I’m Max. You have a beautiful motorcycle site and you are really an expert (I think a lot more than me). If you want to have a chat, I give you my contact [omissis]. And again congratulations for the site! Max 
 
– MaxMi wrote: I sent the message, but in general, no one answers to such messages. But he answered and after a few minutes. I pass you the text. 
– project wrote: Ok 
 
ATTACHED: Hi Max, I added you, you too have a beautiful site! And I’d like to have a chat with you. If you go to my blog and look for a bit, you can find a picture of an H. D. of 1952, it my grandfather’s motorcycle. Now I keep it like an heirloom. Look at it a bit and tell me what you think! Oh! I added you, if you like I’m online!
 
– MaxMi wrote: In short, we got in touch immediately, after half an hour of written chat he asked me if we could switch to a video call and we did it. It was him! He was amazing beautiful and had a beautiful voice. We have been talking about motorcycles for two hours, then he told me that he had to go and that he would call me. In the following days we got in touch several times, we did not talk more about motorcycles, but about everything. And it was fine. Damn if it was fine! I told him directly that I was 41 years old  but he did not make a wrinkle. So for a fortnight we only chatted via msn. I was clumsy, full of complexes and he must have noticed it. Then one day he proposes me to ride a motorcycle out of town. and i don’t wait a second to jump on board! Project, you do not know how I felt, I was falling madly in love and at the same time I didn’t want it to happen. You are there? 
– project wrote: Yes, go on, quiet! 
– MaxMi wrote: On Sunday we have been around together, all day. The speeches we did were very prudent, but slowly, even if we didn’t explicitly say anything, we understood that we were both gay. Then it was he the first one who broke the ice and I replied “me too!”. We sat on the ground talking all the afternoon, I spoke to him as I had never thought I would do with anyone, he listened to me and remembered everything, even in the smallest details. Then he told me about himself and he even started crying. I would have hugged him, but I didn’t. In short, we have not even touched each other. Then we came back to Milan. In the days that followed, the chat was something that belonged only to us, a very private way of talking about us. I now loved him madly. I would have been willing to do anything to stay close to him. I wanted him madly, I had not told him, but he had told me that he had understood it very well because I had not tried anything and that if one doesn’t try to have sex with you it’s a sign that he really loves you. Project, I loved him, it’s true, that is, I wanted him, but I also loved him as a son. I know it’s strange but it’s like that. You too say that you feel like a daddy for the guys of the forum. Of course I was madly in love with Mark, it is true, but I also loved him as a person and I would have been willing to put myself aside completely, I swear that it is so! 
– project wrote: I believe it, I have no reason to think otherwise. Come on, don’t look for excuses, you don’t need any! 
– MaxMi wrote: Ok, thank you! Now everything was clear between us but I thought that a 20 year old guy could not really think of me, and then a guy like him could have any guy he wanted, and instead one day he says to me: “I fell in love with you”. I feel like dying inside. I know that I have to say no and that I have to do it for him even at the cost of destroying myself. I take the distant speech and begin to give him a kind of lecture to get to the conclusion that it cannot be done. He tells me: “Please don’t disappoint me. I want my first time to be with you!” The thing falls on my head like a boulder. I think he needs a dad, because his father didn’t care about him and I begin to preach just like a priest. It stops me and tells me: “Max! It will happen! I want it to happen.” I don’t want to waste my first time, I want it to be with you, you know it, sooner or later it will happen”. I tried to postpone, to take time, but I madly wanted him. He played with me, a wonderful thing, I should have been happy but I suffered like a dog, I knew that I had to refuse him but I also understood that doing so meant really hurt him. I was educated in a serious Catholic family, people who tried to do something good and that gave me some principles and I knew that if I said yes to Mark I would have conditioned him anyway and it seemed immoral to me. Are you there Project? 
– project wrote: yes 
– MaxMi wrote: The first of June he came to my house (he had already been there before) and he took the initiative. I was happy but terrified. Upset up to the incredible. He undressed and lay down on the bed, I was frozen, my heart was beating at 200 beats per minute, then he said to me “Come here near me!” I undressed and was extremely embarrassed. I had never been in a situation like that with a guy and staying with him really upset me, a bit for my erection and a little because I didn’t know what to do. We hugged each other and we stayed like that for 10 minutes. Then he told me. “Now we know each other better and I’m happy it happened with you”. We stayed so naked on the bed talking for a long time and it seemed almost normal, we were happy and there were no need of sexual intercourse. The following Saturday he came to sleep with me, we slept in the same bed but we just hugged each other naked. For me Mark is sacred, I don’t know how to say. So what do you think? tell me and then I’ll tell you the rest. 
– project wrote: Well, it’s a beautiful story and I think a lot of guys would dream a story like this 
– MaxMi wrote: But you don’t see anything wrong in it? 
– project wrote: well, he is 20 years old, not 12, so he is able to understand what he does and, from what you say, he really wanted it. 
– MaxMi wrote: Indeed, yes. But then things have changed. I thought I was ruining a young guy’s life and that something like that was a bit like taking advantage of the situation. I don’t know how to explain it, maybe they are stupid things, but when I hugged him I felt guilty, I thought that Mark would not have forgotten anymore the memory of those things, a bit as if I were dirtying a clean guy a guy too much clean for me. So I did not feel like going any further and I left him. 
– project wrote: But why? 
– MaxMi wrote: But I don’t even know, I made myself a lot of complexes, the fact is that I told him that I didn’t feel like it anymore. For him it must have been like a stab, like a treacherous thing. In fact, he didn’t really expect it. He reacted with the utmost dignity, but it was clear that he was struggling hard not to cry. He told me that I was hurting him badly and that I didn’t understand that he needed me, he said “a desperate need” of me. I would have come back but I didn’t and I held on. We greeted each other formally and it all ended up like that. He sent me messages and there was only written: “I miss you desperately!” What should I do Project? 
– project wrote: Max, but what would you do, just following your heart spontaneously? 
– MaxMi wrote: I would call him right away, but I know I don’t have to call him. 
– project wrote: Max, call him right away, don’t make him suffer, it’s not fair! 
– MaxMi wrote: Ok, I’ll call you later. 
– project wrote: I’ll you later, bye! 
 
Chat of June 24th 2008, 10 pm 
 
– MaxMi wrote: Are you there? 
– project wrote: Yes 
– MaxMi wrote: Project, I love him madly, now I feel happy again, he must have suffered like a dog too. He was very sweet, just happy. He told me that if sex scares me he is willing to stay with me without sex, but he wants to be with me, damn, how he seems in love! Project, but is it possible? 
– project wrote: Of course it’s possible, in fact I think it’s exactly like that 
– MaxMi wrote: I love you Project and I love the world! It doesn’t seem true to me to live like this, I at 41 I had let my life completely go as if everything was already defined, and instead at 41 I was born again! I also told Mark about you and he wrote you two lines, what do I do? I send them to you? 
– project wrote: Yes, of course! 
 
ATTACHMENT: Hello Project, thanks for what you did for me! Now I feel happy. 
Mark
 
– MaxMi wrote: Now I’m going out, I’m going to meet him, because tonight he is at my house, if you’re there, we’ll have a chat in three! 
– project wrote: For me it would be great, but I think you have better things to do! A tight hug, Max, to you and Mark. And let’s stay friends! Ah, sorry, can I ask you something? 
– MaxMi wrote: Yes, whatever you want! 
– project wrote: Can the text of the Chat be published? 
– MaxMi wrote: Of course! If there are identifiable personal things, delete them, but I don’t think there are such things. So, shortly, I can reread my story on the forum wow! I know it’s not something for forty years old, almost 42, but the fact is that I don’t feel like a forty-one, I don’t feel so anymore. Mark also greets you! A hug Project and see you soon! 
– project wrote: A hug to you! Bye!

_______________

If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-gay-love-between-a-twenty-year-old-and-a-forty-year-old

APPEARANCE AND REALITY OF A GAY LIFE

Hello Project, I don’t even know why I write to you, in fact I don’t have big problems, however, come on, perhaps I’m writing just to chat a little.

I’m 29 years old, I don’t have a boyfriend and in practice I never had one, but I don’t mind: I think I have experienced all the typical gay problems, which before seemed to me to be only mine or almost only, but then, reading the forum, I understood that they are much more common than I thought them to be at the beginning. In practice I considered myself heterosexual up to 25 years, although for me girls were basically just friends, I didn’t understand or tried not to understand why, but I didn’t give weight to the fact that they didn’t attract me sexually, with girls I was fine anyway and I felt heterosexual, in some posts of the forum on the discovery of sexual orientation I found myself quite well represented, that is, the phases were more or less those but I didn’t have any anguish, it was something almost normal, because basically, one way or another, I knew it, so I would say I was lucky.

Now it is more than 4 years that I have clear ideas, even if in the end I had already before. I didn’t say anything to my parents. I live with them and I’m an only child and honestly I have no reason to tell it people who at best would tolerate me.

And then, the coming out I could even conceive of it but if I had a true story, then, at least it could be worth it, if such a story was real, I’d see what to do. For the moment I’m alone, in fact I’ve been single for 4 years, and I don’t even feel the need to have a guy close, who would also be a very big complication. I have many friends. Saturday night I go out with them, we go to have a pizza, we’re fine, they all are straight, I’m the only one who is not in couple and then the guys of the group (which are three), I’m not attracted towards them at all under the physical point of view, so they are “only” friends and to me such a thing is fine because It doesn’t create complications of any kind. I don’t have gay friends and I don’t want to have such friends. I met a gay guy for work reasons, but I didn’t like him at all because he had something excessive. I know that not all the gay guys are like him but I do not want to be embarrassed. At this point you will ask yourself why I’m writing to you. Well, let’s just say that I just want to know what you think about it, but I’m fine this way, I’ve reached a right balance. If you like, answer me. I don’t give you my contact because I feel a little embarrassed. I’m waiting to read what you’ll tell me. I have to put you to the test a bit. I think I’ll give you my contact the next round, but I have first to understand what you think.
A hug.
Peter

Hello Peter,
I have finished reading your email right now. The idea of feeling under scrutiny should condition me a little but in the end I can only say what I think and I have to do it absolutely explicitly. You’re 29, not 19, you’re gay and you know that, but what are you running from? I cannot enter your head but if I try to remember how I was at 29 and the things that went through my head I must say that they had nothing to do with the idea of accepting solitude in a calm way and not to meddle in complicated situations. At 29, for me, the idea of having an emotional and even sexually strong relationship with a guy was absolutely fundamental. External situations constituted very serious impediments, but the underlying push was extremely clear.

The things you write seem to me to be an attempt to convince yourself that the renunciation of your emotional and sexual life in the name of tranquility and quiet living is an intelligent thing. I cannot afford to judge the underlying motivations that push you towards a reasoning like that because I don’t know them, but the reasoning abstract as it is doesn’t work at all. It is a pure reasoning or better a pure fantasizing that completely ignores what I sincerely believe you bring inside yourself and you are trying to repress using a very deceptive logic.

I would never push you to come out for no reason and without pondering attentively the pros and cons, but this is a secondary problem. What matters is to recognize your feelings and not repress them. Gay friends? But have you read the forum? Did you understand who are the guys behind forum? I too don’t like gay guys who play a role. But what do you know about gay guys? I think you have very rough ideas, as if you had kept a certain homophobia in spite of your being gay, what is paradoxical. And then, I’m sorry, but there’s a little too much insistence that you’re okay and you don’t need anything or anyone. Frankly, I think it’s exactly the opposite because repressing one’s own feelings costs so much effort! Excuse me if I tell you in too direct terms but I think you have to wake up to avoid discovering in a few years that you have spent the best of your life in waiting and postponing or, even worst, in a heroically absurd behavior. Don’t deny yourself! Try to live because it’s worth it and never forget that the true gay world is a serious matter. Don’t get out of the chorus to hide yourself into an ivory tower that risks becoming a golden trap. I apologize if I have marked the tones too much. I would very much like to have a chat with you, my contact msn is [omissis], I send it to you, without expecting you to send it to me!
Project

Dear Project,
ok, ok, you passed the examination, you have understood everything but nevertheless the things I told you are those that I tell everyone and have little to do with reality, that’s why I have to tell you an unofficial piece of my story.

At 25 I’m in a crazy crush for a guy 22 years old. I met him in the chat, then we met in person, don’t be scandalized, but we ended up in bed that same evening. It was an overwhelming thing, I never thought that such a thing could happen to me. I was convinced that that guy (Luke) was to be my boyfriend for life. Luke lived 100 km from my house, but in a place where there was a railway station. I made the subscription and I was always with him. At first he liked it, but over time he probably began to feel tight. I wanted him to tell me that he loved me madly but he never did, we went to bed together, but when I needed a gesture of tenderness, even trivial, for example a caress, he did not understand it and sometimes I it was freezing. We quarreled several times, I sent him to hell many times, perhaps a little to see if he would came back to look for me and he never did, so I was the one who went looking for him and I started making incredible pitiful scenes to win him back.

He never told me anything definitive, always half-way, like: “Now I want to be with you”. But hell, why “now”? Or when he did something nice to me he always added that I didn’t have to give his behave “too much meaning”. When I pressed him to give me a clear answer he answered me. “Maybe”, “I have to think about it” and I could not bear such things.

I said to myself: “Hell, this guy comes to bed with me, but to do what?” I loved him but also hated him because he made me suffer like a dog. We had sworn to tell us everything, that is to tell always the truth, but he didn’t do it, even if to be honest I didn’t do it either, because when are you living a similar relationship what have you to do? Satisfactory it is not at all and then you start looking for someone else.

Well, both of us we did so, and at the end without telling each other anything, both he and I found another guy. What kind of couple was ours? A play, with lots of sex, but he had another guy in his head, and I could not reproach him for anything because I did the same. About the coming out, if everything had gone as I wanted at the beginning, i.e. if it had been a normal story, I would have come out with my parents, that is everything in the light of the sun (more or less). l would have introduced him to my parents etc. etc. but apart from the fact that he didn’t even want to hear an idea like that because he said that he didn’t like to be the “little mouse in a trap”, then there was the whole story of keeping a foot in both camps, both on his part and mine. So there were a lot of problems far beyond the coming out!

A month before, one day I just had put him under pressure and he had confessed that he was in love with another guy, I had made a scene of jealousy but I didn’t tell him that I too had found another guy, but I’m not a slimy up to this point and then I told him everything and he replied “At least you’re honest!” And he said it with sincerity. The story is over. My alternative story, the one with that other guy ended up in a soap bubble after 10 days and I found myself just like an imbecile. I was 26 years old. Then I got another brilliant idea, that of going to a gay club, I told myself: “just to take a look”.

There I met a 52-year-old man, a distinguished and not even sex-loving man, a bit of sex, of course, but it was not a fixed idea for him. I confess I fell in love with him, I know it sounds strange but it is so. He treated me like a prince, but not only on a material level, he treated me with tenderness. A strange thing, a bit like an uncle, but we also went to bed together, but even there he respected me, it was not unpleasant and the fact of age I never felt it like a problem. He made strange speeches, he told me that he knew very well that he was so much older than me and that I would end up falling in love with a young guy, he said that such a thing would not have been a problem for him and that we would have been friends anyway, I didn’t think it would happen that way, but I liked it a lot the fact that he was telling me so because I felt free.

Anyway, in short, one good day it happened and I told him, but he didn’t react at all as he had said, indeed, quite the opposite, a bit with threatening tone, but not really aggressive: “You have to be careful !” “You don’t know where you are going!” “But who is that guy?” So, to make it short I had the distinct impression that he would not give up and I came to think that he could also hurt the guy I had fallen in love with. Nothing like that happened, but I felt trapped, He gave me terrible sermons, that I would repent of it, that I was not grateful to him and things like that, things that bothered me a lot. I was really anguished but then, I don’t know whether to say thankfully because it seems an absurd expression, the thing ended up by itself because he had a small heart attack and was very bad for a while. I was sorry, because he was not bad and seeing him in that state was not indifferent for me, I went several times to find him in hospital and our relationship has changed, indeed it has changed a lot.

When he was in the hospital he told me that if I had a guy I had to stay with him and I had to try and live my life without doing like him who had thought only of something else. The story I wrote in the first email is not mine but is the story of my mature friend. After doctors released him from the hospital he invited me to lunch at his house and he gave me 20,000 euros in cash because I was about to move to another city for work (he had never given me presents before!) And he told me he wanted us to stay friends, but the friendship could only be via skype because the city where I went to work was almost a thousand kilometers away. Every so often I hear him on msn, he’s a very nice person and I love him. The story with the other guy continued a bit via the internet but was over after a while because I continued to think with tenderness to my mature friend, infarcted and entangled in many problems, which, all in all, was “my Friend”, with a capital F and it is still even if at a distance. Project, now I don’t know if this story seems more absurd than the story I told you before, but this is my true story. When I say that now I’m fine with myself and I don’t miss anything I want to say that I’m fine with my Friend, even at a distance. I don’t know if this is a sop but I’m really fine. – omissis – A hug Project. (thanks for the contact! Unfortunately I can only be online on Friday and Saturday night, but I’ll call you for sure! Publish what you want. Just remove the last period, which is too recognizable.)
Peter

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