GAYS AND SEXUAL EDUCATION

This post will try to summarize the effects of sexual education on gay sexuality.

First of all it is necessary to define the concept of sexual education. We start from a premise: the development of studies indicates that sexuality has a genetic-epigenetic base which is substantially defined already in the uterus and at most in the perinatal period. This genetic-epigenetic imprint determines not only the sex, that is, gender belonging in anatomical and physiological terms, but also the gender identity, that is, the perception of gender and sexual orientation.

The awareness of sexuality, its models, the more or less repressed manifestations of sexuality over the years, and the consequences on an individual psychological level, are instead largely determined by that familiar and social interaction, which we can call “sexual education” and which is not limited to just a single part of life, but follows the evolution of the individual according to the progressing of age.

The fact that sexuality, understood in its most profound aspects, is closely connected with the affectivity induces to consider sex education as an integral part of affective education.

A concept, in the educational field, should never be forgotten: education acts on the basis of an individual biological genetic-epigenetic substratum but is also linked to the stages of development, to possible pathologies and many other factors. Education means to develop the potential of an individual “respecting first of all the biological identity”. A good gardener knows that by placing an apple tree in the ideal conditions for the cultivation of an apricot tree, not only we will not be able to obtain apricots from the apple tree, but it will suffer a lot and may even die. Cultivating a tree means understanding first of all what tree it is and then providing it with the appropriate care for that specific tree. This is also true for people.

Let’s start from the family dimension, i.e. from emotional-sexual education inside the family.

The family is the first environment in which a child begins to build relationships. In order to begin to feel an affective gratification, the child must perceive the sense of acceptance and affectionate care from the parents. If the child is the subject of confrontation (unwanted children, doubtful parenthood, a child that has become an object of contention between parents and grandparents or between the parents themselves), he easily becomes aware that he’s not the center of family life and begins to experience the sensation of marginality and abandonment yet in tender age.

Perceiving the disagreement between the parents is inherently traumatic and transmits automatically, by imitation, a model of behavior that is not emotional but competitive, stimulates aggressiveness in one direction and sense of frustration in the other. The child also instinctively senses the discrepancy between words and behavior. Cuddling a child for a while and then leaving him alone in the walker or in front of the television not only causes a sense of abandonment but also provides an initial model of falsehood: “I love you so much, but you must keep calm and stay aside because I have other things to do!” The speech is basically inconsistent and false because it brings together declarations of affection and behaviors that show disinterest.

Often the frustrations of parents, their claiming attitudes, their blaming of this or that, their justifying only themselves, transmit to the child the feeling of unreliability of the parent who begins to be a faltering reference point. Nothing is worse than raising your voice to impose your point of view, and I don’t even want to talk about the possible physical violence in the family, which is experienced by the child in a devastating way: a father who tugs at his mother, who slaps her, a mother who plays hysterical scenes and screams at her husband, represent models that the child will certainly internalize, or by imitation or contrast, identifying, according to the situations, as an aggressive person or as a victim, and this will move the child away from the emotional contact, which is the true purpose of emotional education.

There are several other behaviors, apparently neutral, which transmit a sense of insecurity to the child:

1) A parent who speaks in the singular setting himself against the other (“I … while your mother …”) . The use of “we/us” conveys the idea of affective family, harmony and solidarity.

2) To talk too often about money or about who brings home money, or about social hierarchies that don’t see parents at the same level.

3) To speak badly about other people the child knows.

4) To show that it is difficult or impossible to speak with the other parent, that he/she has defects, that doesn’t care for the family and, worse of the worst, doesn’t care for children.

The presence of parents in the life of young children, up to preadolescence, should be constant, affectionate, dialoguing and never abstractly normative.

A particular consideration must be given to managing family conflicts that may arise, and indeed inevitably arise in the family over the years. It can be the conflicts of the parents with other relatives, of between parents themselves and also of the conflicts between parents and children. The management of conflicts must always be discursive and shared, no form of violence, even verbal, can be admitted for no reason. Recognizing the other’s reasons and seeking conciliation doesn’t indicate weakness but the exact opposite. The child must realize that the parent can see things in another way and you can talk to find a point of equilibrium without coming to breakage.

Affective education suffers a violent trauma when the parent-child relationship is dominated by the fear of the parent’s violent reactions. Even worse is the idea that a parent invokes the presence of the other parent to induce fear in the children, such in the classic: “I’ll tell your father!”
As one grows, one element takes on particular importance: confidence, which must be accompanied by confidentiality on the part of the parent. If a parent receives a confidence by the child, he must keep it for himself, if he doesn’t, he would induce the child to immediately interrupt the relationship of confidence with the parent that will anymore be resumed. Any attitude that shows the tendency of the parent to abandon himself to gossip, devalues him in the eyes of his son and reduces the possibilities for dialogue.

A general criterion must always be kept in mind: education operates through the example, not through words: children tend to assimilate and imitate parents’ behavior, not to put into practice what parents say in words but don’t do themselves.

What has been said so far, as it is easy to understand, requires from parents a substantial affective maturity that too often is taken for granted, assuming that the parent is always substantially up to the task of education and that at most he needs a training aimed at the conscious rethinking of contents and methods of education. Sometimes however, and not very rarely, these assumptions don’t occur, in some cases because parents themselves have been in turn educated (assuming that this word can be used in these situations) with completely improper and substantially non-educational methods, and in other cases because one or both parents can be psychopathological subjects (for example paranoid or perverse narcissists). While in the first case it is possible with regard to the parent a concrete action (even if of long duration and with uncertain outcome) of reorientation or re-education of the adult, in the second case such action is essentially impossible and the parent-child educational relationship can turn into a framework of family violence and abuse, up to the most extreme consequences. It should be emphasized that violence and family abuse practiced by paranoid or perverse narcissists parents are often not visible on the outside and create very deep suffering in the children with unforeseeable consequences even in the long term.

Sex education of the child

Today, children are bombarded starting from an early age with images more or less erotic and very often begin to take an interest in sexuality in a very abstract way well before adolescence, so they assimilate, in a very tender age, banal visions of the sexuality as a “forbidden game”. Pedagogues have often been concerned with how to convey to children a more correct concept of sexuality: typical is the model of the flower, the pollination and the fruit, but in this way there is the risk, for gays far from being indifferent, to provide only the concept of sexuality aimed at reproduction, this will also convey the concept of sexual role, of the boy and girl as society conceives them, and of typically male and typically female behavior, taking for natural and obvious cultural attitudes often very questionable.

Accustom a little girl to the idea that femininity involves high heels and makeup means distort the concept from the beginning, like to think that the boy should be interested necessarily in football and in certain types of games is in itself misleading. It is very easy to see that in a school class of children who are not yet pre-adolescent, boys tend to play “boyish” games with each other, and girls tend to play “girlish” games with each other and this is the result of an education for sexual roles, how society understands them, starting from an early age.

The child before puberty sometimes shows an embryonal hetero affectivity, which involves interest in being with little girls, talking with them, playing with them, or an embryonal gay affectivity, which involves interest in being with other boys, talking to them and playing with them. These behaviors are the first manifestations of sexual orientation, they are not yet conscious, but they are elements on which we should reflect a lot and to which we should pay the utmost attention, but, I must say very clearly, never a repressive attention. I would like to point out that the transmission of role models deforms and often stifles these spontaneous tendencies altogether and tends to let the tendency towards homologation prevail, based on the fear of marginality within the peer group.

In the memory of many gays, the recollection of the first affectionate friendships with other boys and often the worried attitudes of the parents in front of such manifestations remains well imprinted. We are talking about friendships between children, not yet pre-adolescent who, if not totally conditioned by education, begin to show signs of homo-affinity or hetero-affectivity.

Parents, who often lack a broader horizon on sexuality, consider themselves as the only possible model for the sexuality of their children. The idea that children are not and cannot be a photocopy of parents is still struggling to get accepted. It is precisely for this reason that some children’s behaviors alarm parents and trigger a short communication circuit that ends up disrupting trust and establishing suspicious attitudes.
The child who plays with dolls or puts on his mother’s high heels or wig or dresses up as a woman generally raises questions in the parents, and this happens even more strongly if two children develop a very close friendship. Apart from the fact that these are completely different phenomena, because the first refers to gender identity and the second to sexual orientation, it is very probable that the child experiences in these situations the concern of the parent that manifests itself through limitations, prohibitions or simple removals.

The basic criterion of a good sex education is to promote the spontaneous development of affectivity and sexuality, avoiding a repressive sanctioning behaviors. The parent facing behaviors that are not what he would have expected believes that it is his duty to “correct”, to “guide” the child’s behavior, to “defend” him from dangerous influences, this attitude, which is perfectly understandable, is acceptable , positive and necessary, if “to correct ” means to demonstrate by example how one can have affection and respect for friends, without demanding too much and without running away from one’s duties towards those friends, if “to drive ” means to explain, to make the child understand the meaning of affective relationships even in adult life, for example by receiving friends cordially and affectionately, if “defending” from dangerous influences means to accustom children not to trivialize, not to exploit friendship, to take it seriously and to respond adequately when the need arises, but “to correct” means for many parents only to repress, “to drive” means to remove freedom and “to defend” means to segregate.

I would like to stress that the signs of homo-affectivity are generally very precocious and repressing them means inducing the guilt and submission of the child who begins to consider himself wrong. The repression of infantile homo-affectivity sometimes manifests itself explicitly, and sometimes through a systematic attempt to remove the child from contexts in which that homo-affectivity tends to manifest: if the child has developed a strong friendship towards another child or even towards a boy a little older during the summer holidays at the sea, the next year instead of going to the sea the family will go to the mountains.

A very delicate subject in this area is the prevention of sexual violence and abuse. Clearly, the child’s segregation reaches the goal but at the cost of a total repression of the individual freedom. The real problem lies in avoiding the risks (which are not only fancy) leaving the child a freedom commensurate with his age. Leaving a child (under 12-13 years ) alone for the whole day together with his playmates exposes him to objective dangers, which he may not realize. But if sexual abuses perpetrated by external pedophile subjects are generally the most feared, experience teaches that abuses are practiced only exceptionally by strangers and for the most part they rise from a family environment. Parking children by relatives or friends from morning to night means abandoning them to situations that can be objectively risky.

Before 12-13 years it is good that the child finds its spaces for the most part with the presence of the parents: the parents speak in the living room, the children play in the next room. Parents in this way give their children an example of socializing and leave them freedom spaces according to their age.

Beyond the age of 12-13, the risk of abuse doesn’t cease because abuse can also be committed toward adolescents or preadolescents both by family members and by educators, priests or teachers, especially in contexts where the minor cohabits with other peers for education or care purposes. Particular attention should be dedicated to the education of responsible use of the web for the risks of priming to which minors are exposed on the net. It is important to be vigilant in order to catch any signs of disturbance, alarm or exaltation in children, talk to them about it, if it is possible, and contact the postal department or the local Police Office to receive assistance when faced with dangerous situations. Obviously, the best prevention of priming risks on the net is realized right through risk awareness, the habit of always thinking before acting, and the habit of protecting one’s own privacy and that of others, and on these aspects education has a decisive influence.

When a child manifests the first forms of curiosity in relation to sexuality, it should be taken seriously, avoiding trivializing and manifesting evasive attitudes. It is essential that sexuality is never detached from its affective implications and is not reduced exclusively to procreative purposes. The child must become familiar with the idea of a sexuality that is not a forbidden game but a manifestation of affection for another person. Many parents never show explicit emotional behaviors in front of their children, for example, the father and mother don’t hug each other in front of children and avoid any physical act with each other, even the simple caresses, others instead let themselves go to forms of more or less sexual play in front of their children who in this way feel themselves excluded from the relationship with their parents. Of course

It’s necessary to find a balance between these opposing attitudes: the spontaneous caresses and affections between parents, the cuddles, which end up with the involvement of the children in the affection of the parents themselves are extremely positive in stabilizing the mood and in developing a harmonious character in the children. The double bed must become a non-exclusive environment, reserved for the parents only, but must be an environment in which children can also be admitted. The physical contact with parents, commensurate with the age of children, must lead to the idea of the affectionate embrace between adults, which expresses participation and sympathy.

Let’s come now to one of the key points of the speech: how to deal with the issue of homosexuality. The parent who is explicitly dealing such an argument with the child for the first time, must never forget that if one takes for granted that one’s son is hetero, in 8 cases out of 100 he is mistaken. Sending positive messages about homosexuality certainly doesn’t induce heterosexuals to become homosexuals, but can help homosexuals to grow accepting without complexes their homosexuality. Many parents believe that the specifically sexual education of children is not up to parents and should be delegated to school, church, doctors and other educational agencies, as if sexuality were an object of study or a question of faith or health protection. Obviously all these aspects are not foreign to sexuality, which, however, is a very complex reality that cannot be considered only under sectoral perspectives.

Sexuality is a component of the ordinary life of all of us and one of the essential contents of a serious educational relationship. I have been dealing with homosexuals for many years and I have often seen gay adult men, still deeply conditioned by the conflicting relationships with parents due to homosexuality. The vast majority of homosexuals not publicly declared, speak about their own homosexuality just with a few trustworthy friends, while those who talk about it openly in the family are very rare, perhaps today less than ten years ago, but it is still a narrow minority. For a gay boy, talking to his parents and finding their respect and their affection even in an atmosphere of clarity is absolutely essential and stabilizing. On the other hand, misunderstanding and rejection leave deep traces and greatly complicate the achievement of true autonomy on the part of the children.

I add a fundamental thing: a gay boy who feels accepted within the family will not need to go and look for other environments in which to find understanding and tends to develop his affective life without hiding and for this reason objectively also running much less risks. When a gay guy presents his boyfriend to his parents (what was once unthinkable and now becomes more and more possible) he realizes at 100% the dimension of the normality of his affectivity-sexuality. Surprised, reticent, perplexed or hostile attitudes of parents severely undermine their children’s self-esteem and create often irreparable fractures.

I would like to touch on a very delicate last subject. Sometimes the boys who grow up, whether they are heterosexual or gay, find themselves instinctively experiencing drives that alarm them, classics are examples of sexual fantasies about much older people, pedophile fantasies, sadistic or masochistic fantasies and erotic drives addressed within their own family. It is objectively very difficult that topics of this kind enter explicitly in speeches between parents and children regarding sexuality, because if the fear of negative reactions to homosexuality is already strong, the fear of negative reactions to those contents can be much more alarming. The issue of pedophilia can be responsibly tackled by highlighting the very serious objective damage that those behaviors can cause but stressing nevertheless the fact that those tendencies can exist even in very good people who would never put them into practice. If there is an attitude that a parent must show in front of such things, it can only be to clearly distinguish the fantasies that one cannot control, from the actions that can and must be taken under control. A similar argument can be used also regarding sadistic and incestuous fantasies.

With regard to intergenerational relationships it is necessary to avoid confusing them with larval forms of pedophilia, because intergenerational relationships are relationships between consenting adults even if of very different ages.

A correct attitude in the face of all these things helps people feel understood and accepted and enhances their morality and their capacity for discernment and this is the basic premise to accept themselves and to be able to self-control. It should be emphasized, however, that pedophile fantasies, of which people almost never speak in a scientifically correct way, are a reality very complex and difficult to manage. In many cases these fantasies are found in adults who have in turn been victims of violence or sexual abuse. It should be clarified that, although fantasies and actions are distinct things, it happens that fantasies are or may be prodromal to actual or possible behaviors, which, even if only considered merely as hypotheses, can cause levels of profound suffering.

Slipping from fantasies to pedophile behaviors can sometimes become easy and almost obvious. The sex tourism, for example, can lead the adult to look for more and more young partners of one or the other sex, producing a slow but effective slip towards pedophilia. The use of Internet child pornography should be considered as a sign strongly indicative of a dangerous corroboration of fantasies, prodromal to possible pedophile behaviors. According to what I learn from people who experience pedophile fantasies I’m led to believe that slipping into occasional pedophile behaviors, which can be the origin of recurring pedophile phantasies, also of obsessive types, is certainly possible even for people who have never had previously this kind of fantasies.

A person who experienced this kind of fantasies told me: “I had never had such fantasies before, then it happened to me an experience in which it would have been easy to come to the action, but it didn’t happen, but taking a step without return would have been very easy. And since then, such fantasies remained strongly stamped in my mind. I don’t like them, that somehow compromised my sexuality for years because I think that I wouldn’t even talk about such things with my partner, because he would react badly.”

I will not analyze here the possible compulsive aspects of pedophilia but because many men who have pedophilic fantasies are aware of it and are afraid of being able to practice pedophile behavior, in some countries (in Germany, in England and in the US) there are support services who deal with prevention by providing specialized psychological support to those who request it because they experience pedophile tendencies.

At the general educational level there is still an ancestral fear towards psychologists and psychiatrists that should be eliminated, leading people to understand that they are health workers who can provide psychological and even pharmacological support if necessary. Prevention education, which deserves a detailed examination, is not only carried out in providing information on sexually transmitted diseases, but also in the prevention of other risky behaviors for oneself and for others such as pedophile ones.

Certainly less sensitive are the themes related to the couple’s relationship structure: monogamy, indissolubility, socialization and formalization of the couple’s relationship, relationship between friendship and love. Insisting on the legitimacy of a single behavioral model collides with the reality of affective life which is often not monogamous, not unbreakable neither reducible to structure. The meaning of the couple relationship is usually assimilated by imitation already in childhood and, according to the general rule, is transmitted through the behavior of adults and not through their speeches. The relational aspect of sexuality should never be overlooked, according to this relational aspect the fundamental satisfaction in a sexual relationship derives from the realization that our partner is really involved and is in turn gratified by the relationship. Needless to say, these must be relationships that are actually wanted consciously and freely by both partners.

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If you want, you can participate in the discussion of this post open on the Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-gays-and-sexual-education

A GAY SON PROUD OF HIS FATHER

Hi Project,
I am a 55 year-old parent, unfortunately a widower for five years, who found himself in these days to discover that his son (his only child) is homosexual. If I still had my wife I could discuss with her, but unfortunately this is not possible. I have practically no knowledge of what homosexuality is and on what it may entail and I cannot talk to anyone about it because then they would ask themselves why I talk about it and I would risk to undermine my son’s privacy. My son is 21 years old, he has always been an exemplary guy, studious but also cheerful, sporty, I would say happy with his life. He never had a girlfriend, this is true, and I probably underestimated it, but he had female friends who came home to study with him, in short, it didn’t occur to me that he could be gay, he never had any effeminate attitudes, physically is a nice guy, normal and nobody identifies him as gay, at least according to what I think.
You’ll wonder how I got to know he’s gay, since he never mentioned it. I never spied on him, I would never have done it, but I didn’t even really have any reason to do it. One day when I had to work in the afternoon, I see Matthew go out to go to university. I go to the kitchen to prepare a cup of tea, before entering the kitchen I see a piece of paper on the ground, or better a note of those accompanying the gifts, there were a few written words: “You’re my sweet puppy!” [The reader must keep in mind that in Italian, the language of the author of the email he’s reading, the masculine nouns are easily distinguishable from the feminine ones and the adjectives must be used in the masculine or feminine form according to the nouns to which they refer. In Italian, if you are addressing a man or a guy you have to tell “Cucciolo docissimo”, if you address a woman or a girl you have to say “Cucciola dolcissima”, in English it would be said in both cases “very sweet puppy”.] The thing that came absolutely spontaneous to me was to think that Matthew had a girl and that that note was a note that the girl had sent him, then I looked Attentively at the writing and I said to myself: “But this is Matthew’s writing!” Instinctively the first thing that came to my mind was to put everything back exactly as I had found it and leave the house, because I would never have wanted my son to feel embarrassed, and so I did, I returned late in the afternoon, when I knew that Matthew had to go to swim, and I noticed that the note was no more on the ground, evidently Matthew had returned, he had found the note on the ground and had reassured himself. But I was totally upset. I considered all of the possible hypothesis, but the ticket didn’t allow other interpretations: Matthew had written it for a guy! It didn’t seem likely that it was a joke, in short, the conclusion could only be that my son was gay. But how could such a thing be possible, he has missed his mother since he was 16, his father has always been present and even too present. I was comforted by telling myself that anyway the note was the only clue that led me to that conclusion and that it was a weak clue, but a minute later it didn’t seem so weak to me. I didn’t say anything to Matthew and everything between us continued exactly as usual. I had the idea of spying on him, but I put it aside immediately, because it seems to me an unworthy behavior, I know that the best thing would be to talk to Matthew and tell him exactly what happened and tell him that the note I had put it back on the ground after reading it because I felt agitated and embarrassed, but taking a step like that is not easy because Matthew could also feel embarrassed, and then I started trying to get an idea of what the homosexuality is. At the beginning I was literally upset by what I found on the net. I’ve read about some apps that allow gays to recognize each other, I read something about dating sites, but they were upsetting things. The biggest fear was for the HIV because I read that the risk of HIV for a homosexual is much higher than for a heterosexual guy. After a bit of research I arrived on your forum and read a few testimonials from parents. I must say that finding Gay Project has comforted me a lot, but unfortunately sites like your forum are a very rare and on the contrary there are a lot of risky situations. In short, I think you can give me some useful information on how to behave with Matthew. I’m not homophobe, I would like to help my son be gay but I don’t know how to do such a thing, I would like him to understand that I just want his happiness, I don’t want to make him straight, I just want him to be happy with his father.
I thank you in advance.
Guido
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Hi Guido,
I think that Matthew has every reason to be happy with his father! It would be very nice if there were many fathers like you! I understand very well that a father who doesn’t know the reality of homosexuality, can remain doubtful and agitated in discovering that his son is gay. If the writing is really that of your son (more than likely, because usually guys speak in the family of their girlfriend and don’t speak at all about their guys) there is no doubt at all, but the content of that note, even if very short, makes us think of a serious relationship, that is, of a relationship that has at its base a form of affection, of tenderness. The fact that your son is calm, has a good relationship with you and has never had problems with school or university suggests that he is a prudent guy and also aware of the risks that sex can involve and anyway, certainly  a guy doesn’t write: “you’re my very sweet puppy!” to a guy found in an erotic chat! So, instinctively, I would say that Matthew knows what he does, I could even be wrong but he doesn’t have the attitude of the guys who end up in trouble. What to do? You found the solution yourself: talk to Matthew, tell him exactly how things went, I don’t think he can take it badly. He is a guy, yes, but he’s also an adult and you have to treat him as such and then, from what you write, there is no doubt, you love him. Don’t be afraid of your son! And above all, be sure that he will be proud of you! A hug!
Project
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Hi Project,
I spoke with my son last night. When I finished telling him about the note, he opened his arms, smiled and added: “I was afraid you would have taken it badly, oh God, I’ve had the idea of telling you that but I thought it would upset you … , but now the problem is over.” Then he told me about the guy, who is a university colleague who has also come to our home and met me sometimes and that I always thought was a very special guy. I told Matthew that I wrote to you and he stayed there wide-eyed, he said: “Did you write to Project? But do you know that I know him in person?” And then it was my turn to stay wide-eyed. He told me that he wrote to you several times (signing as Matthew97) and he met you in person with two other guys of the forum). I feel very reassured and then what you said to me happened: he patted my cheek and told me. “Fathers like you are few!” I don’t hide that I was happy.
Guido
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If you want, you can participate in the discussion of this post open on the Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-a-gay-son-proud-of-his-father

A GAY COUPLE IN A TERRIBLE ORDEAL

Hi Project,
I was really pleased to be able to talk with you last night, I absolutely needed it and I enthusiastically welcome the idea of summarizing yesterday’s speech into an email that you can then enter in the forum.

I am 31 years old, in my life I have always been convinced of having a thousand problems, from the idea that I would never find a guy who loved me at the idea of not being physically and psychologically up to a serious partner and many other things. For those things I felt bad, I felt like a nothingness and I thought I had experienced the worst, the most problematic situations of life, then I met a guy and slowly, gradually, we began to love each other. I don’t know what brought us to get together but it happened.

For a long time we couldn’t live together because we didn’t have the chance, in theory we were only two good friends, but in reality we were a couple. We didn’t see each other every day, and it happened that maybe in a week we saw each other only once, but when we were together we felt really well, we learned to love each other, to understand each other, to trust each other.

I thought I had found my serenity and surely he too thought it, but suddenly he started to accuse some disorders, he went to the doctor who sent him to the specialist and he did some very thorough instrumental examinations and it became clear that my boyfriend had a very serious health problem. I don’t go into details, but it was really a bolt from the blue.

At the moment he has quite bearable disturbances, but it will not always be that way and we have been told it, now he has begun his path of illness, which, apart from the gravity of the thing in itself, will create great problems even with work, because he is employee of a large private company and when he will have to go to the hospital for therapy he will be absent from work and so he will risk dismissal. Fortunately for me I have a good job and if it were to serve I could give him a helping hand.

At the moment he has not said anything about the illness to his parents, who are elderly, have a lot of health problems and live with him, he doesn’t want to alarm them, but sooner or later they will realize that something is wrong.

My parents know my boyfriend, who has been to my house many times with them, but they thought he was just a friend of mine. Some time ago, my father, who is 70 years old, looked at me in the eye and said: “I see you’re not quiet, what’s wrong?” And I told him everything, that I was gay and that my boyfriend was sick and he hugged me and told me: “On me and your mother, you can always count and for anything.” I felt a little comforted but I’d have preferred that it was my boyfriend to feel comforted, but he can’t even talk with his parents.

My father asked me about the hospital where my boyfriend goes, and about doctors who take care about him and he said they are serious people, he knows those environments because he too has had oncological problems, now under control.

I modified my working hours to be close to my boyfriend as much as possible, I accompany him to work and I go to take him back, I always accompany him to the hospital, the doctor who takes care about him has been told that we are a couple and didn’t make a grimace. My father at one point called Steven on the phone and Steven came to my house for lunch, it’s something quite usual for us, but this time my father told Steven something that he didn’t expect: “Louis told me everything and we (i.e. he and my mother) thought that you and Louis can feel more at ease enjoying your privacy in this apartment, I and my wife can go to a little house we have in the village nearby, which is only 15 kilometers from here, but your parents would remain alone and maybe they would take it badly, I don’t know … What do you think about?” Steven was puzzled and didn’t know what to say and I too, actually. He should have left his parents’ house and it seemed unrealistic. My father, given the perplexities, didn’t insist and said only: “The proposal is always valid, if you decide to put it into practice, it is done in two days at most”.

When I took Steven back to his house and we parted, he thought that if he had been with me in the same house he would have been calmer, even for the illness, because his parents knew nothing and in case of need they wouldn’t have known what to do. He told me: “I have to try and get my parents to accept it, but they also have my sister and they wouldn’t be alone anyway … let’s see what happens.” After not even a week, my parents went to live in the village and Steven moved to my home. He was happy to be with me, it was also a way to realize a dream, but at the base of everything there was a terrible melancholy. I saw Steven smiling and seemingly quiet but I was worried about the passage of time, everything seemed to me ephemeral and frighteningly unstable.

At the moment the situation is this, Steven goes to the hospital for checks every two months, the doctors don’t talk too much, they decide what to do step by step, I bring inside me a terrible anguish and I think about what Steven is experiencing, we speak about everything, but not about the disease, which means that he is trying to remove it and not to be too much conditioned by it.

I feel embarrassed especially for sex, I swear, Project, I never know how to behave, before we had never had problems, it all came spontaneously, now to launch the idea seems inappropriate, but in the end this is also a stupid problem. He occasionally takes the initiative, we rarely get to sex, in most cases we just smile and move on. It’s different for cuddles, now there’s a lot more tenderness than before, a little to compensate for the decrease in sexuality and mainly, I think, because now we have our intimacy, we have our own home and we can nestle one against the other to see the television or just to feel that we are there and that we love each other.

Project, I would never have thought of having to face a situation like this, which puts me to the test in a violently emotional way. I am terrified of the future, doctors don’t encourage but don’t even discourage, talk about the phase of therapy towards which you are going but never talk about long-term prospects. I don’t ask questions when we go to the hospital together. Steven asks some questions and I try to memorize the doctor’s answers and to put together the pieces of the puzzle to understand something more. We have decided not to read Wikipedia and let the doctors do their work.

Sometimes in the morning I wake up next to Steven and I start to pray for Steven, and I have never been religious, but now I find comfort in the ideas of religion. Of this I cannot talk with Stephen, not so much because he is radically rationalist and unbeliever, but because for him it would be like a further confirmation that I consider his health problem insurmountable. He too, in my opinion, doesn’t see any favorable prospects at all, but he never talks about it. Sometimes, when we hug, I wonder what he is thinking but obviously he doesn’t say anything. Those moments of silence are very intense, our way of shaking hands is already very eloquent. This too is being gay and I had never imagined it.

Now I realize how absurd the problems I had a few years ago were, now I took a bath of reality that put me in touch with human nature in its fragility. I’m learning very hard lessons, I only know that I love Steven, and I will never leave him alone, I don’t want to think of a future without Steven, this idea is terrible for me and makes me cry, because I see Steven who calmly shakes my hand, I hear his voice a little hesitant and I also see him smile, it is he who tries not to make me think and to give me courage.

Now we are at this point, Project, and no one knows what is to come. I feel profoundly melancholic, I feel like a feather carried by the wind. My parents try to be present to calm the atmosphere a little, they treat Steven as if he were a son of theirs, this consoles a little, but the underlying terrible melancholy remains. I love Steven also because he has a dignity even in this situation, and doesn’t close himself in himself, on the contrary he accepts to share his anxieties with me, without too many words but with a lot of love. I stop here, Project, because I can’t go on.
Louis

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HOMOSEXUALITY AS A GUILT-PATHOLOGY AND MARRIAGE AS A REMEDY

This post is dedicated to married gays, so I will leave aside all the considerations related to sexual orientation of guys who have a straight sex life at the couple level and having a sex life typically gay at the level of masturbation, because these considerations have an important sense only before you get married.

I will start here from the situation of married gays, as I see it through the chats with people living in this condition. In my dialogues with married gay guys of all ages, the idea that when we are young, we are very often led to underestimate homosexuality and to consider it a choice and, even worse, a reversible choice, is always present. Too many times one hears people telling that one chooses to be gay and this totally false statement creeps into the brains of the guys who, forgive me the desecrating but instructive example, consider homosexuality not as their nature, i.e. as a personal fundamental characteristic but as a kind of drug that is a bad thing in itself but that can be taken in the end, in small doses, because it is taken for granted that one can come out of it when and how one wants.

Homosexuality has nothing negative and it is not a habit that leads to addiction, such as the use of drugs but it is a reality about which it makes no sense to say: “I go out of it when I want” because being gay is not a choice. The idea coming from a religious matrix of the homosexuality as a vice that if rooted leads to an addiction, that is to a vice no longer eradicable, is still widespread and continues to produce incalculable damages, inducing gays to marriage in the belief that, in the end, with an act of will, they can also choose to be straight.

The married gays know very well how much this wrong vision of things is deleterious. Very often, in socially backward reality in which homophobia dominates, children learn from an early age to see homosexuality as a disvalue, all traditional education presupposes the heterosexuality of guys and, where there are gay guys, who are eight percent of the guys and therefore are practically everywhere, causes them to repress any gay drive through feelings of guilt.

The Catholic Church still officially has attitudes that are substantially homophobic and, in substance even if not in words, incites hatred against homosexuals. With Pope Francis the tone, at the top, has changed, but eradicating homophobia from the Church is a something that seems to be destined for failure, admitted and not granted that someone really intends to attempt it.

The attitudes of the family are often backwarded and violently repressive. I invite those who have not seen it to see a very significant French film: “Juste une question d’amour” in which parents who embody two different attitudes have to face the homosexuality of the sons. When the repression of homosexuality is so strong as to induce the guys not only to eliminate external behaviors that may make people think of homosexuality but even to fight against their own homosexual instincts at a very private level by repressing spontaneous masturbation in a gay key, it becomes unfortunately possible and concrete the possibility that a guy can think not only of forcing himself not to be gay but even to be straight.

These are forms of profound violence that completely alter and I would say completely distort the affectivity and sexuality of a gay guy, who is encouraged to create a heterosexual relationships and to cultivate it by “imitating” the attitudes of other guys; in these cases the removal of homosexuality is seen as a moral merit and heterosexual sexuality is accepted as “medicine of homosexuality”.

Behind all this, the idea of sexuality as a vice and therefore as a fault is evident. On closer inspection, it is easy to understand that where very elementary and dogmatic conceptions of nature dominate, the complexity of reality is compressed into schemes derived from pure prejudices. To think that sexuality is aimed only at procreation is an assumption of principle that is systematically contradicted at the social level and in individual behavior.

The expression “against nature” has been and is still used systematically with regard to behaviors and to the same homosexual libido. Instead of knowing what variants of human sexuality are, it is much easier to consider them as deviations “against nature” or as acquired vices, or cultural choices, more or less induced from the outside. To consider homosexuality a vice rather than a variant of human sexuality means to base the whole approach to homosexuality on totally wrong grounds.

When a guy evaluates his homosexuality as a vice against which one must resist to return to true sexuality according to nature, in fact, he takes an attempt of self-repression that results in an attempt to avoid or contain masturbation, to escape from the occasions in which homosexual instincts can be more easily reawakened, to sublimate homosexuality in affectionate friendship, and, at the end, to choose of a way without return like marriage. I report here (with the consent of the author) an email I received.

“I am writing to you with great fear because I don’t know who you are, and the fact that you are gay embarrasses me. I’m 25 years old, I have distinctly felt an interest in guys for a few years, but I don’t feel repulsed by girls, now I have a girlfriend for a few months and all in all I feel quite at ease with her, she’s very sweet and she’s not obsessed with sex like some girls that I had before, we love each other, she is not at the top of my thoughts, I sometimes let myself go to pornography and in particular gay pornography, but with my girlfriend I think that a serious relationship could also be built. I want to say that if I work hard I can do without gay porn and even without masturbation for several days and I think if I had a family I could put all these things aside to dedicate myself to my family. I feel that I’m at a turning point, because if I wanted, I could arrive to the wedding and even in a short time and my girlfriend would be very happy and even our parents, and in the end, it would be good for me, but honestly for me it’s very hard to decide because then I could not go back. I would love to get married and do away with pornography once and for all. etc., but I’m afraid of doing the biggest stupid thing in my life. There is something that makes me reflect and it is the fact that I talk with my girlfriend about everything but I could not talk about my homosexual fantasies because I think that she wouldn’t really understand the meaning of such a thing, she’s fine with me, we pamper each other with a minimum of petting but she would never understand that for me there is something else, she is convinced that homosexuality is a vice that can be overcome with good will and perhaps with the help of a good psychologist. I too, years ago, tended to give for granted all these things but lately I started to think that things are much less easy than people make them look. I asked myself many questions about my future and what I really want. Recently I met a guy at the university and I started to look at him with interest, but not only for reasons of sex, as I did before, but to look at him with emotional interest, he made me feel tenderness, I wanted to stay next to him, there was also sex, but not just sex, and for the first time I began to think that for me a love story could be possible even with a guy and maybe even more with a guy than with a girl. I don’t know anything about the gay reality, which objectively scares me but I’m not at all sure that I want to give up my private and tiny gay world to go to a wedding that honestly scares me a little because in the end it could be a real trap. But now what have I to do? My girlfriend expects the wedding, like our parents and friends, etc. etc .. I think I need someone who forces me to admit things that I now see even by myself, even if then transforming the clarity of ideas that I’m gaining into concrete actions is really difficult.”

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ALWAYS OUR CHILDREN – USA BISHOPS AND HOMOSEXUALITY

On the website of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of the United States, I read a document entitled “Always Our Children: : A Pastoral Message to Parents of Homosexual Children and Suggestions for Pastoral Ministers” worthy of special attention. It was my intention to translate the document into Italian and publish it “with due comment” on the Gay Project websites, both in Italian and in English. I translated all the text but I noticed that I’m not even allowed to partially reproduce it because it is copyrighted!

The copyright was born to prevent the commercial exploitation of a publication, but in this specific case, where it is not clear what the commercial interest to defend is, since it is a “pastoral” document, copyright obviously has another meaning, i.e. to prevent even the partial publication of the text and therefore its point by point comment by “unauthorized persons”, in essence the copyright here has only the sense of a censorship. I must point out that the Vatican’s official documents, which are of very greater importance, are not defended with expedients such as copyright and the Vatican honestly exposes itself to criticism, but the US Bishops’ Conference prefers to defend itself with means typical of commercial law!

I invite not only gays but all people who have a civil conscience to read this document (http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/h…ildren.cfm).

I cannot mention the content for copyright reasons, I will limit myself to the impressions I had during the reading of the text.
I note that the text has been copyrighted on 1997, at the time of John Paul II, or rather of Saint John Paul II. The bishops present a non-fraternal but “pastoral” approach in the sense that there is no common research of the truth but there are the pastors who are kindly concerned with the lost sheep. Communication is one-way, from top to bottom, from the bishops to the faithful.

The discourse on homosexuality is dealt with by insisting very formally on acceptance and respect but by reiterating the teaching of the Church, that is, essentially, radically refusing to open eyes on reality. Galileo also claimed that it is not the sun that turns around the earth but the earth that turns around the sun and was condemned by the Inquisition on the basis of the teachings of the Church, teachings that had nothing evangelical, as Church teachings on Homosexuality have nothing evangelical.

I have cited hundreds of times fundamental documents on this matter of the World Health Organization, but the Church doesn’t want to consider “reality”, which has nothing to do with what the Church itself preaches about homosexuality. It is possible to make a mistake, but insisting in error avoiding any form of comparison means that the other are considered a reality of lower category, to be pitied, to be guided, people whom you must pretend to respect without trying to understand what they think, which is considered wrong a priori.

Then there is another thing that has struck me very much, the document is directed essentially not to gays, but to parents of gay sons and to those who exercise pastoral functions, it is said that the use of conversion therapies “is not mandatory” and it should be accepted voluntarily and also that it is not said that it can solves the problem, but Catholic parents are advised to look for specialists who follow the Catholic doctrine, and this is in itself very significant.

On the one hand the document underlines that a gay son is still a son (because many Catholics had evidently been led to think otherwise!), but for the other it recognizes that a parent can well be upset by a terrible event like realizing to have a gay son, it is recommended that the parent address the community, the parish, the diocese, the associations of parents of gay sons, etc. etc.. But I wondered if the Church had ever realized that the Church itself continues even now to spread false and homophobic messages that have fueled and continue to fuel hatred against gays.

On the subject of suicide it is said that homosexuality can lead to suicide but in reality it is not homosexuality that leads to suicide but the climate of witch-hunting about homosexuality, fueled by those who, under the gentle and paternal appearance of the shepherd, spread hatred. This was the church of Saint John Paul II but it was also the church of Benedict XVI and unfortunately it is still the church of Pope Francis.

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GAY COUPLES AND MONEY

Hello Project, I need to vent myself and maybe even of an advice. At the moment I’m a bit out of my mind because I broke up with my partner (life partner) and I don’t know what to do, we had, fortunately only rented, a shared apartment but the contract is registered only under my name. At the beginning we paid it dividing the expenses, but now I’ll have to pay for it only of my own, and then the world has fallen on me, but I cannot stay with him anymore. We have not broken for problems of betrayals or for various jealousies but for money matters, you understand, Project, just money.

I am 34 years old, he one less, we both work, he earns more than me, not much more than me, but more than me. Our families have never sailed in gold, neither his family nor mine. As a kid I was used to not throwing money and I know how much effort it takes to earn it. We live together in the same apartment for years, we share the expenses, I try to save money because I don’t want to find myself bad and even worse to ask my parents for money, for him instead to ask for money is not a problem, but has become a habit, but I don’t mean asking for money to do something concrete, like furnishing the kitchen, but to throw them away in the most incredible ways. For the last Christmas I had made some savings “with a maximum effort” and I had put aside 500 euros to make him a gift, since he is always chasing money.

I gave him the 500 euros, he came out and spent all of them in less than an hour, he bought two shirts of 100 euros each and 300 euros of books, which of course are still in the bookshop package. I was very upset, then he went to ask his parents for money for Christmas. Recently “for two months in a row” he spent all his salary in 15 days and then came to me because he didn’t even have the money for the bus. Frankly, I cannot stand anymore such a situation. We have filled home with absurd things, bronze samovars, books written in who knows which language and expensive furnishings that are completely out of context. When I tried to reason with him about these things he remained very upset, he looked like a beaten dog but then he didn’t change attitude and at the first opportunity he was ready to throw away all his salary from the window. I really loved this guy and I tried for years to underestimate his ways of doing but sometimes I just cannot stand it anymore.

Last year we took a new car, I would have taken the cheaper basic model, not him, because a bigger engine has more recovery, because with the alloy wheels security is greater, etc. etc. and we ended up increasing the price by almost 30% adding options that are absolutely useless. Last week he began to say that the house is small and that he would rent a bigger apartment and it made me nervous: but who gives us the money to pay for a bigger house? He began to talk about asking for a loan but he said it “seriously”, therefor I began “seriously” to worry and to think that in his brain certain mechanisms are jammed and that maybe he just tries to keep his feet on the ground without succeeding.

I tell you, I just felt moments of panic, I said to myself: how can I go on with a guy like this? It’s better that I go my way because with him a real dialogue is not possible, just he doesn’t realize, I sent him back to his parents and I told him that I wanted to be alone “for a while”, he then called me on the phone with the usual abandoned dog air and this has aroused in me a tide of scruples and I don’t know what to do, I would like to be with an adult who is able to control himself but he is not so, is a very good guy but in some things he doesn’t have a minimum of self-control, it’s like a child who doesn’t understand the value of money.

What should I do Project? Have I to pretend nothing at least in words this time and then always pretend nothing? I love him but the idea of getting back together doesn’t excite me, it would still be a compromise choice. I could even pretend that it’s nothing, hoping that something will change but I already know that nothing would change. What do I have to do?

konigdernacht answers:

I can only laugh, rather than cry bitterly, reading this post! The situation is very particular and focuses on some issues of a couple’s relationship:

1) home economy;
2) respect for money;
3) respect for the partner;
4) respect for the parents (of the partner of the writer).

That said, I would have two dispassionate advices:

a) if the two really love each other and if this money story is the only stain in the relationship, the two could continue to live together and the guy with his feet on the ground could register expenses and make the partner understand one of the basic principles of the home economy, namely that if TOT enters and TOT is spent, there is a budget balance; if TOT enters, and 2 TOT is spent, a debt accumulates; if 2 TOT enters, and TOT is spent, there is gain! It is certainly not high finance! Obviously, this registration serves to educate the partner and, once educated (in a short time hopefully), it should end up because registering all expenses is not really nice!

b) if the two love each other but the situation is truly unsustainable – I imagine that the guy with his feet on the ground has not a few anxieties and tachycardia about this absolutely unnerving situation – the road to follow can only be one: leave, remaining just friends, but following everyone his own road! On the other hand, one considers himself as a life partner, not as a nanny.
A wish you true happiness, dear writer.

Alyosha answers:

In my opinion the money has little to do with all the story or better the money management has in some way just something to do with the management of feelings. In southern matriarchal families it is quite usual that it’s the woman who collects the money of all the family members and then decides how to spend them. Unfortunately I realize that certain automatisms, right or wrong they are, in a gay couple don’t exist, because the roles are not so obvious, among other things I cannot even say if it is bad in itself. The point is that those who control the money that a person can spend control the movements of that person, affect their way of thinking and reasoning. And in a gay couple there are two different ways of doing, well beyond the mere problem of money. Right or wrong, his positions and his attitudes towards the world are radically different from yours, dear thrifty.

He lives more for today and with less thoughts on his mind. I state that about cohabitation I don’t understand anything, but in short, his money is only his and yours is only yours. Once you have split your expenses in half with his money, he can do whatever he wants, if he then asks you for money after having spent everything, don’t give him it. So I don’t understand why you should keep his money. If then when he has finished his money he asks his parents, it’s not your problem. His relationship with his money is not your business, he manages it as he wants. In short, behind this money business, I see more an attempt to influence his way of thinking, doing and behaving, and I also see a certain frustration and a sense of betrayal that you feel if he doesn’t do what you think should be done.
Save money, be moderate in spending etc. etc. they are not values in themselves, they are not right in themselves, I mean, but they are right only for you. In short, it isn’t said at all that despite the fact that you and your boyfriend are two different persons you aren’t able to stay together, but my dear writer, you should give up your attempt to change him and you shouldn’t even let him change you. In short, I repeat, divide the expenses as you were two simple roommates and when he is in trouble don’t help him. Sooner or later he will get rid of his bad habit if he realizes that when he needs money he has to earn it by himself. But if there is more, in short … you will reason on your own, I feel seriously too little expert to give advice on such long stories …

Gianni replies:

Sorry if I intrude in the discussion, I read carefully the first post and the answers of Konig and Alyosha, given that it is not only a problem of gay couples, even heterosexual couples face financial obstacles day by day in order to move forward, there can be discussions, clarification of ideas, none of us is perfect, Someone can buy too many books, CDs, shoes, shirts, home furnishings for the bedroom or kitchen, whatever you want, but, and I say it with full knowledge of the facts, if you decide to be a couple, you do it after you know thoroughly the mate, because it is not possible, after attending each other for a long time, to discover things that were not seen before or you did not want to see, it is too easy to create a couple and then destroy it for reasons that can be overcome with a serious and responsible speech. When you are more than 30 years old, you should already know how expensive life is (in every sense). If the financial problem is an excuse to want to download the partner, then it is another matter …

pavloss replies:

I am very perplexed. I don’t think that the guy who writes wants to “download” his partner for reasons of money, I think, rather, that he loves him and fells very upset in front of the irresponsible behavior of the one close to him. The fact is that the problem he throws on the carpet is true and undoubtedly goes beyond money. When a person takes into account that he doesn’t exist only for himself but for another one with which he makes a family, all the possible problems, even if they may appear very difficult to overcome, are considerably dampened. The ability to adapt as a couple must not come from one side only. If it comes from only one part, sooner or later the equilibrium is lost and a “no return” process starts, as seems to be the case described by this guy. I have the impression that the spendthrift guy is rather closed in himself, willing to see only his reasons, is quite spoiled (asking frequently one’s parents or family for money when you have a job and earn money it is not decent in my opinion!). If he is willing to get out of this vicious circle he can very well recover the couple relationship with his partner, otherwise he will compromise it forever (and it seems very real, this) but he will also lose his true balance in relation to life.

The man who sees his partner unbalance this way, rightly dreads because he also feels himself dragged into a paradoxical situation that he would never want. I would simply put him in front of an aut-aut: “Either you change or I go my way”. In fact, what kind of “love” is what forces the other to humiliation and indigence for a total inability to have a relationship with money? Here on the part of the spendthrift there is a hermetic closure on himself that is to absolutely avoid, if you want to live as a couple. Otherwise it is better that everyone stays on his own. I met a similar case in the heterosexual world. An uncle of a friend of mine, long ago, married a woman who wanted luxury and forced him to do crazy shopping, far beyond his financial capacity. At one point, the indebted man saw that his life partner was never happy: obtained 100 she wanted 1000, obtained 1000 she wanted 10,000 and so on. They ended up divorcing and, by law, because they had a son, he had to help her keep the son. The son, became an adult, for years went to his father asking for money, saying “Dad I’m used to living in luxury, I cannot do without it”. Meanwhile, his father entered an acute depressive crisis of which his ex-wife and son were responsible. Recently he committed suicide. This shows how a deranged relationship can also lead to extreme situations.

konigdernacht answers:

pavloss wrote: “I don’t think that the guy who writes wants to “download” his partner for reasons of money, I think, rather, that he loves him and fells very upset in front of the irresponsible behavior of the one close to him. … When a person takes into account that he doesn’t exist only for himself but for another one with which he makes a family, all the possible problems, even if they may appear very difficult to overcome, are considerably dampened. … what kind of “love” is what forces the other to humiliation and indigence for a total inability to have a relationship with money?”

I absolutely agree with you, pavloss: the two are a couple, a family, so the debts of one are also debts of the other, and this in my opinion escapes the reading of Alyosha, which sees the two as entities absolutely detached, each extension of himself. Not to mention that as long as there are parents of the spendthrift, all is well. Once disappeared, where does he go to ask for cash? He would end up charging himself and the couple of debts, creating many problems! If then there are assets to be seized for breaches or lack of finances by the spendthrift (and maybe pulling out parents), since the two reside in the same place, the creditors will go into the couple’s house and take furniture and whatever belongs to THEM, not only to the spendthrift but to the couple!

project answers:

Pavlos and Konig say things that I also feel mine. I state that soon (as far as possible) I would like to organize a themed evening in chat entitled “what does it mean to have a guy” because I think that the concept of couple is still seen in a very vague, while, in the couples who go on, there are inevitably shared economic balances and shared responsibilities that guarantee the stability. Indeed, Gianni is right when he says that before creating couple you should know your partner very, very well, to evaluate not only the reliability in terms of emotional stability and fidelity of the couple, but also in terms of respecting the commitments undertaken and also of objectively adult behavior. In gay couples there are no legal obligations and there are no children and the couple, if it goes on, it’s only for its internal cohesion, such a couple certainly has emotional and sexual components and whatever you want, but also depends on the reliability of each of the partners.

I will only give you an example. How do you see a couple in which one of them is systematically one hour late for appointments and never warns if he doesn’t come back or if he’s late, etc. etc.? You can tell me that such thing are trivial but basically they are forms of disrespect and disaffection. A couple is a small company that has its own resilience and resistance, but has also its limits. Without reaching the extremes of which pavloss speaks, for a guy, seeing in the partner an irresponsible behavior, that despite the work doesn’t make him economically autonomous, it is really worrying, and seeing that speeches are useless and that the partner thinks of everything but the couple and his mate, is truly discouraging. If an older guy behaves like a kid it’s difficult to avoid the conclusion that he’s immature, and feeling in couple with an immature guy is frankly depressing.

Editor replies:

Alyosha wrote: “I state that about cohabitation I don’t understand anything, but in short, his money is only his and yours is only yours.”
Well, living as a couple, being a couple, doesn’t mean being 1 + 1, that is, two small singularities, but exactly a couple, a family in short, in which you have to keep under control your defects for the good of the whole family.

Barbara answers:

When a couple is together for so many years, money management becomes an important issue. Money establishes lifestyle, values, priorities, even serenity, as the story of this guy demonstrates. The use of money tells us a lot about what we are. Now it is obvious that this story is anyway a point of view, but there are objective data that make us reflect. The excesses create real problems. Living with a person who borders on compulsive shopping or, at the opposite end, with a person with an unexpected stinginess is a fatigue that can be intolerable. In the first case you can get involved in debts that your partner is likely to contract, because cohabiting with another guy, it is difficult, as Alyosha would like, to stay out of the consequences. In the second case, referring for example to heterosexual couples, one also comes to speak of economic maltreatment when one of the two partners limits the other in expenses that are actually necessary. We should find a meeting point. But in some cases it is not easy to reach it, because the use of money refers to significant meanings and life choices.

Could the author of the email renounce the serenity and dignity that derive from the savings? Perhaps in the same way the partner cannot give up many objects, which represent something fundamental for him. There are people who don’t go out if they do not wear a signed garment: this is a sad reality, but anyway very real. What are objects for many people? They are something that defines them, which guarantee them a status, which increase their self-esteem. I think this guy has tried to change things and that his putting himself apart can also be, from his point of view, an extreme attempt to make the person he loves sober.

Alyosha replies:

Thanks for the underlining, Editor. I hope that things are better for you, What have I to tell you? Next time you will tell us how your relationship is working, at least I was honest. The life of a couple is something that for me doesn’t exist at the moment, I would like it, as all of us, I think, but I don’t crucify myself for the fact that there is not and I try not to think about it! I can only say what I think in the abstract, because something I think (don’t worry, I have this flaw and many others) and for fairness I have to premise that they are only ideas and not real experiences. Inheriting the heterosexual model in my opinion it’s a mistake, being in two but not sharing the management of children is not a detail.

The heterosexual family remains focused on offspring, the gay one definitely not. Sharing spaces, times, emotions, ways of reasoning is one thing, merging one into the other, “complementing” is another one. Among other things, it is not said that heterosexual couples working like this, go well. The idea that everyone should have his own things, however, seems fundamental to me, this is the premise for every possible sharing. If the division of goods is already done in heterosexual couples, I don’t see why the idea that everyone manages his money as he wants, once the common expenses are covered, cannot be a solution. I repeat there are no children to grow and this is not a detail. It doesn’t just mean not having the responsibility of a third party in the couple, but also have no one to whom we can leave our savings, so the fundamental question is: what do you keep making money for?

I’m not saying that spending everything is a right lifestyle, but I don’t think it’s that wrong either. Not having children as a common project, requires a shared project of another nature, that is to have an idea of a solid common future. I repeat, in my opinion, it is not bad either, the children cover too many times the total absence of common background visions, so I repeat: the fact that many hetero couples simply go on like this, doesn’t mean that they go well. If a “filìa” is missing, first of all in the sense of thread that connects, even before that in the sense of bond and love, if a son is missing who could be somehow like a thread, as I see it, a gay couple in the long run does not have many possibilities, but I can be wrong, I have premised on purpose not to have great experiences in this regard. If, as usual, here there were no basic preconceptions, to push to stigmatize the “spendthrifts”, we would immediately realize that the reasoning also works in reverse.

In short, everyone for what I read, would like to pull in his direction and this is not possible, the thread if too much pulled, breaks. The problem I see is definitely another: this guy is spoiled. When the money ends he asks his parents or his boyfriend, here is the mistake in my opinion. Everyone is free to do what he wants, but he must assume responsibility for his decisions. If every time he’s in trouble someone will help him, this guy will never grow up. Hence the advice not to help him, the ideal would be that not even the family would help him, but on that you cannot do much. But on one thing I would like to be frank, if people are continually treated as irresponsible, there is nothing to complain if they become really irresponsible.

And the idea that my boyfriend has to deal with my money, would make me irresponsible and would be in essence the exact equivalent of what my parents do when they give me the money. If this is the situation I can only share the choice made by the guy who wrote, that is let him go, I simply didn’t want to reduce him to an economic issue. I read Barbara’s comment now and it’s what I mean: on the surface we see the management of money, underneath there’s a world. In Italy there is not even the recognition of gay couples, if a guy asks for a loan for a house he puts it on his paycheck crying alone the legal consequences if any. One could very well find an agreement whereby the other pays half of the mortgage payments exactly as he now pays half of the rent. I know that if the differences in the vision of things are too many, you cannot continue to be together and that’s exactly what I’m trying to say.

But if I had to make the decision to leave my partner it would not be only for an economic question because, sorry if I repeat all the time, under the economic issues there are other things, perhaps more important. Everything we do in modern society needs money and if someone claims to come to manage for me the money that I make on my own, in reality he claims to manage my person, I just wanted to emphasize this. Having said that, I remove the trouble, I leave the field to the experts of the couple. Experts not in a polemical sense, but in the sense of having had experiences, which I personally don’t think I have. Forgive me Editor if I allow myself, but the sum has been taught to me in primary school, the next time tell me something that I don’t know already. Good continuation.

Barbara answers:

It is very interesting what you say about the fact that it is not said that gay couples should follow the same rules as the other couples. He reminded me that there are also heterosexual couples in whom the use of money is separate. It would be interesting to understand which solution is better. In a heterosexual couple, a good percentage of women contribute by working at home, but it is true that many women feel a discomfort in feeling “maintained” by their husbands. The fact remains that it is difficult, especially in a “lean time” like this, to apply the rule of separation of money, if for example one of the two loses the job. Here the situation is different. The guy’s companion makes consciously (I don’t know how much …) choices that go beyond his own economic possibilities. And rightly, as Alyosha points out, to see that your partner puts you regularly in front of the fait accompli, assuming that you have to cover his budget holes, asks you a few questions about the relationship: does this partner respect me? Do he respect my freedom, my values, my efforts? Does this partner want an equal relationship or does he want to turn me into an acquiescent parent? a relationship like this corresponds to my needs?

Alyosha replies:

Barbara wrote: Does this companion want an equal relationship or does he want to turn me into an acquiescent parent? I thought exactly this. In reality I dared even more in my reasoning, because I fear that the person who wrote the post can take slowly the role of parent but he has probably in mind a different parenting. When a relationship begins behind each of the two partners there is always the fabric of our fundamental relationships. In my opinion it would be decisive if, in the meantime, the guy who wrote would took off this role of a quasi-parent. One partner evidently gives it to the other and the other takes it. Surely from this point of view to loosen a little bit the stress it can useful to entrust each one his own money once the common expenses have been covered.

As usual I can be wrong, but that: “I sent him back to his parents” a little made me think of the idea of a package to send back to the sender and helped me to reinforce the idea that this guy is considered not only an irresponsible, but almost like an inert object to displace from one place to another. Even the idea of maneuvering his money for him is very reminiscent of the idea of moving it, as if it were inanimate. Behind the reactions of the parsimonious guy there is also the attitude for which his ideas are all right and the other is a kid. What’s absurd about wanting a mortgage to buy a more beautiful home? Ok, maybe materially it will not be feasible, but it’s not an absurd thought. And what’s absurd about the idea of wanting a car with a big displacement? So you understand that the type that writes is not fascinated by cars, unlike his partner. Why are the more relaxed behaviors all considered weird? And in spending all the money on the books? What’s there really wrong?!?!?!

They are not “strange” ideas as they are represented, but only other visions of the world. As I see it, one can and must seek agreement, but only if the other is placed at our same level (and therefore is not helped when he makes mistakes, in the sense that has emerged) and if his vision of the world, however different from ours it may be, has in our eyes equal dignity compared to ours. If there is not this condition of substantial parity, but one is more “high” for some reason than the other, higher up with his moral code, with his judging gaze, no agreements are possible, because agreement by definition presupposes that we are all on the same level. If there is a difference in the relationship, there are more or less peaceful forms of bargaining on things to do, but it still remains the idea that one of the two guys has the responsibility to do for both while the other should simply take in loan in his behaving the code of values of the first.

There remain only different forms of control over people, however frustrating for those who exercise this control, because given the situation described, it seems clear to me that the other doesn’t prove a performer so reliable of the will of the first (even if the first keeps saying that his mate understood the lesson). It is also clear that the parents of the spendthrift still retain a power, which they will exploit if necessary. For parents, treating a guy as a capricious child who must be satisfied is a sure way to keep him connected to them and not make him develop mature relationships and according to what I read in the conclusions it is a method that works great! However, the division of expenses I thought of it as an initial phase, I repeat, as I see it, letting both partners have their spaces of autonomy is the indispensable step for every possible sharing. Slowly, as agreements on things are found, the number of expenses faced together would grow in a spontaneous and progressive way. But it is only a hypothesis, I cannot say how much in fact it can be concretized.

konigdernacht answers:

You, Alyosha, wrote: “As usual I can be wrong, but that: “I sent him back to his parents” a little made me think of the idea of a package to send back to the sender and helped me to reinforce the idea that this guy is considered not only an irresponsible, but almost like an inert object to displace from one place to another.” Come on, Alyosha, we are not doing the exegesis of a passage by an author, the writer has simply used an ironic hyperbole to say that his prodigal boyfriend went back home to his parents, or that he asked him to come home to his parents for the moment. About the fact that his boyfriend is an irresponsible, I don’t think there is any doubt at all: it is absolutely evident! But you also say:

“And what’s absurd about the idea of wanting a car with a big displacement? So you understand that the type that writes is not fascinated by cars, unlike his partner. Why are the more relaxed behaviors all considered weird? And in spending all the money on the books? What’s really wrong?!?!?!” There’s really nothing wrong … in the fantasy world or if you’re a “maintained”. We can reason clearly in the abstract, but in my opinion a fact that often escapes your discussion is that of practicality: that is, one can spend all his money in books, ok! But then what do you eat? The pages of the book? How do you pay your bills? Certainly not with the sheets of the book! So if one cannot distinguish his primary needs (eat and pay bills first), from secondary and unnecessary (if you buy a utility car instead of a big car, it’s always a car that you buy), he should really do an accelerated course of life!

FreedomTower answers:

I quote pavloss: “Either you change or I go my way”, the effort must be of both of them not of just one, otherwise the relationship becomes a repressing one’s own frustration, there are things that are only discovered during cohabitation and it is precisely for this that the cohabitation in a relationship is the litmus test, because one experiences being together and living side by side day by day and one can see all the moods and attitudes of the partner throughout the day every day. Returning to the beginning of my post, I think you have to give him an ultimatum, after all it’s for years that you tolerate this continuous wasting money, if he really loves you, he will try to change, in the end, you’re not asking him to limit himself in who knows what but just to save something because even if it’s not your money it’s also for his good that he has to change, because even if he doesn’t ask you for money, he will continue to ask his parents (who spoil him so, even if I don’t know anything about the situation) and also to ask friends, maybe untrustworthy and dishonest friends …

Alyosha responds:

My speech wanted to go somewhere else, what to tell you? Keep on thinking it’s just a matter of money and practicality, for what I gain from it, I don’t care at all. A minimum effort to go a little bit beyond the surface of things could be done sometimes, maybe it’s useful or maybe it’s perfectly useless. My text is not an exegesis, but the impression I received from the complex of things I read. And I repeat, I have very much the idea that behind the claim to manage the money of the other there is a desire to condition his movements. The idea of sending him back like a parcel post confirms the impression I had of it. In a country submerged in debt I would not be surprised if someone bought a car in debt with a safe income. It is the other who sees his boyfriend’s ideas as weird and doesn’t give him any basic legitimacy, that instead they should recognize each other!

Now I stop in fact, not being able to interact with the direct interested, this discussion seems to me basically a school case, because all the arguments and all the possibilities are in principle possible. In general, however, if it should make sense to ask for advice, it is good to help to reflect on what one is doing, not just to say that it is right or wrong. Right and wrong, in my opinion, don’t even exist, therefore it sounds very strange to argue that in a relationship one of the partners is completely right and the other is completely wrong, I couldn’t even conceive a similar thing.

salvettino answers:

Hello everyone, I joined recently and I find it very interesting an exchange of views, such as the one allowed by this blog. Meanwhile, I would like to respond to this message, I have to premise that I’m 28 years old and I too, years ago, had a story that came to an end because of the money that my boyfriend was continuing spending. I point out that I bought a house while he has a flat in his mother’s cottage. I paid and still pay a mortgage, while the rest of the expenses we would have to theoretically divide. But it was never like that, because I saw that he was always without money already in the middle of the month and then he asked me for money on loan, so what would I have had to do? In addition to my first job, every night I went to work in a take away pizzeria to earn only a few pennies. When I had a little bigger expenses, I could never count on him because he never had any money.

So, do you still say that money has nothing to do with it? In my opinion, money certainly have something to do with the end of my relationship: why did I have to go and do a second job in order to be financially quiet and he, instead, was at home playing in front of the PC? He was missing money more than me. Perhaps the fault was only mine because at first I didn’t remark the thing, but unfortunately, when you persevere, you end up with an inevitable rupture of the relationship. I cannot say that I still don’t like him very much, but going back and put me together with him another time together would be useless. In fact, now I’m only working based only on my first job, if I had to change my mind about restoring the relationship, maybe I would ruin my existence, I would be condemned to a second job forever to maintain him. But who makes me do it? And furthermore, I also ask you: who makes you do it? At some point in life, people is no more able to change, if they have been accustomed since children in a certain way, they will always remain the same. At 40, we cannot change anymore.

redelmondo answers:

I report my experience: I started working a few months after we met, he started working roughly 5 years later. I immediately opened an account in my name. After some time we decided to open a joint account and I gave him an ATM and a credit card. It was normal for me that he could use all the money we had if he needed it, and I didn’t go to check expenses. I didn’t “lend” him money. I usyally lend money but just for work in the bank but but I gave money to my love only in custody and administration. Now we both contribute to our finances, we have the same attitude with respect to money. An attitude antithetical to that of my mother, who burns whole her money (it is she who pays practically all the household expenses – the two of us contribute just to maintenance) but she throws away from the window thousands of euros a year in stupid things.

Now I remember my poor father crying, while he was dealing with bank statements, now I’m an adult and I understand him, seeing how upsetting me is that my mother is unable to keep money when she has some in her hand. My love and I are really afraid to find the house mortgaged because my mother had to buy a new handbag or a woman dress. if you have not understood yet, I live with my love and my mother happily under one roof. In the case of the guy with a boyfriend prodigal, on my opinion he should make the matter very clear. since the recklessness of his boyfriend’s expenses is very difficult for him to bear, he should impose an ultimatum: fixed a sum of tolerable monthly expenditure, he should make his friend to allow him save the rest, to put it on a savings account, in a glass jar above the fridge, under to the mattress, or wherever you like.

The boyfriend is not able to manage himself, so he has to be managed if he doesn’t want to be single again. Now if this is an impassable wall, not wanting to accept the condition can become the yardstick of the love tried, not so much for the money itself, but for the lack of capacity for sacrifice. Sometimes he seems to behave like would a child. I notice that in gay couples one of the two partners behaves often like to a capricious child, so it is right to pose as a kindergarten teacher. No kidding. As for the money that he is given away by his parents, nothing wrong, let’s see it as an anticipation of inheritance

Telemachus replies:

Interesting this thread, I had escaped it. I wonder if the guy of the email has tested the hypothesis that his boyfriend may have some pathological type of obsessive-compulsive disorder, which causes him to arise the urge to buy large quantities of things even perfectly useless or even completely outside of his economic scope. And in fact there are also “accumulators”, i.e. people who feel the need to fill the house of the most unimaginable and disproportionate amount of junk (whether expensive or not). When the gap starts to become so excessive, unfortunately, saying simply that “he’s a flawed person” may no longer be able to explain the situation. After all, by analogy, a compulsive addiction disorder, perhaps more disastrous but not dissimilar, is that of gamblers, who fail to realize what they are doing and are unable to stop.

Alyosha answers:

Telemachus, in fact the pathology exists, the “shopping addiction”, more widespread among women, and difficult to identify among men, for a whole series of social conventions to which you refer. Buying a car with a disproportionate cost, as well as spending dizzying amounts to cultivate a hobby is something that has a certain social recognition and above all it’s not normally considered “shopping”. A friend of mine studied such problems for the thesis. In general, the nomenclature has never impressed me much, but it is only my personal point of view.

salvettino answers:

Hello, now I have solved the problem convincing me that I will stay alone, without a boyfriend. In fact, I stay with the payments for the car I bought thanks to a loan in my name and I’m still paying. I am waiting in vain for the slow return of the sums I have lent him. Especially now that he’s jobless I don’t even know what I have to do. Here’s what it means to trust. I think my eyes were just closed to persuade me to do something like that. Mah!

Lokiluk answers:

I find myself in the same situation as the writer … but with the opposite role. I’m a little younger than my partner and I like going out with friends, I like beautiful things … My partner is very thrifty, he has defined an annual budget within which the expenses of our couple must be limited. I recognize that being told that we cannot afford the restaurant or the cinema every weekend is frustrating and that feeling we are not rich is very unnerving (I know, I have no absurd claims, sometimes just a few “I’d like”, but never a “I must have It”). But I also know that he is right. At first I was offended by his reproaches. Then I realized that being part of a couple, I didn’t have to think about myself, but about us. My partner, it must be said, is not an inveterate prohibitionist, a fervent supporter of Zwinglian rigorism. He also likes to spend money sometimes. But when money is scarce and work is uncertain, I admit it’s fair to take some responsibility. If the writer’s boyfriend is able to understand what it means speaking about a “we”, then perhaps there is hope of fixing things. Anyway, however … the thing seems to me a bit pathological.

_____________

If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-gay-couples-and-money

HELL AND HEAVEN OF A GAY GUY

Hello Project, I wanted to tell you that for three weeks now I feel much better and it seems to me that I can get out of the black mood. It seems incredible, but it’s happening. Project, what you did for me has never been done by anyone and it seems incredible to me that you can create similar relationships even if you don’t even know who I’m, but it happens. In the last period everything has changed for me, apparently nothing has changed but I’m the one who has changed, I feel that I have changed and I owe it to you. You know all my story and you told me that there are other guys who live and have lived similar things and then I want to tell my story to those guys because not being alone and understanding that we are not alone, for those like me, is fundamental. Project, the story is long and I took so long to write it but I think it makes sense, because in the end I’m finding my way and so I finally feel free. Project, I tell you something true: I adopted you as a father! It’s something that I missed so much and I’m discovering beautiful things! (Thanks for the good wishes, you’re the only one who has remembered it!)

THE STORY OF PAUL

My name is Paul, I was born in Milan almost 28 years ago. If I look back at my childhood and adolescence I find no time in which I can say I was I don’t say happy but not even serene. My parents never got along, from the date of their marriage and from my date of birth I deduced that I was already arriving when they got married, which would not be a problem, but I don’t look like “my father” at all, under any point of view, just as far as genetic factors are concerned, and I think I’m not even a son of the man who married my mother, but I don’t know for sure and I cannot ask for something like that.

My parents (if they really are my parents), I remember that they often screamed and made spite. They had no other children and I was the object of contention, and I had many times, even as a child, the very clear feeling that “my father” didn’t want me because he knew I was not his son. My mother literally considered me a mess and tried to entrust me to relatives and to various campsites. From the age of eight, that is, since they divorced, they put me in a boarding school for rich people. My parents are economically wealthy. But the choice to send me to boarding school was just a way to disguise the fact that their wanted to get rid of me in order to continue living their lives without me. I was just one that had nothing to do with them.

The college was in a very nice place in the [omissis] area. They came to see me once in a while, usually once every three months, once he and one she. When the teachers told me that the next day my father or my mother would come, I felt really bad and I hated them as I think I never hated anyone.

When I was a kid I did not understand these things well and felt guilty because I hated my parents while teachers told me I should love them. In practice I grew totally alone, both during the school months and during the holidays. I specify that my college was totally male and managed by priests. A hateful place where with the excuse of letting me learn the discipline I was practically relegated as in prison. You learned hypocrisy, falsehood, and even the relationships with schoolmates were just of competition and constant acting, even in private.

My schoolmates waited at least for the summer holidays, I didn’t, because I would have ended up somewhere else like a parcel post. When my mother came to my boarding school, she took me to lunch outside and thought she had done her duty. We only talked about school and she tortured me for hours because she thought it was her duty to pay me a long visit. My father at least stayed very little. Both he and she gave me expensive gifts that I systematically threw away or gave away to someone soon after they left.

Since I was 15 years old they have not given me any more presents but they have thought to give me money and many. I never took that money and they considered me an imbecile for this too. So I was in a boarding school and I didn’t have a penny in my pocket.

The school was a real torture for me. In the fifth gymnasium ( 15th grade) I was rejected which meant another year in prison, I would have gone out of college only after have turned 20! Repeating the fifth gymnasium I met a guy that I liked a lot, I didn’t even understand why.

We were in a religious college and we had a spiritual father. So I started to masturbate thinking about that guy and I felt tremendous guilt. I told the priest that I was masturbating and he didn’t take it as a tragic thing, he always made the same speech and stopped there, but I didn’t say to the priest that I felt homosexual. Once I went badly in crisis and told him that I was gay. It was a terribly wrong choice! College life has become a torture. They controlled me visually as the rotten apple. I always had a priest nearby during my free time. In a first moment I tried to repress and control myself, that is, not to masturbate anymore and even to stop thinking about that guy, but it was a real torture. I resisted even three weeks by auto-imposing not to even think about sex but then I didn’t do it anymore and I masturbated again and I said: “Enough with these absurdities! Go to the hell!”

Since then I began to tell the spiritual father only false things: that I no longer thought of the boys and that I didn’t even masturbate anymore, but I presented it step by step to make it seem credible, I was 16 and a half years old. Naturally I went to church every day, confessed false things and made communion every day. It was a sacrilegious thing, I know, religion should be a free choice, while for me it was just an instrument of torture and frankly I didn’t feel guilty, and why, then? In our college there were never any common moments with other guys in a state of freedom.

At school we did physical education but in the afternoon, there was the gym, also very nice, but there were no locker rooms, no showers. We arrived wearing sports uniform and went away wearing sports uniform. Among other things, it was generally very cold there. We each had a single room with a private bathroom and shower. So I had no chance to see the boy I was interested in if not perfectly dressed, jacket and tie of the college.

I started masturbating since the 16 and a half, but in a place like that, without the internet (considered as the devil!) And without any chance to read an uncensored book or buy a newspaper, in practice, I did everything using fantasy. I selected someone among my classmates and built on them all my fantasies. The first times, this new regime seemed acceptable and even pleasant, then I began to realize that I was throwing my best years this way. The year of the final examination, in November, I also escaped from the college, I was of age, in fact I was almost 20 years old but I didn’t have a penny in my pocket. I arrived at the station after having walked a very long way and I got on a train without paying the ticket and I locked myself in the bathroom until the arrival in Milan so that they couldn’t detect me.

In the college room I had left a letter saying that I would be back in the evening. In Milan I realized for the first time, at almost 20, that the world existed, something that was shocking for me, I was late for years. In the afternoon I newly got the train with the same technique and I came back to the boarding school. Result: they kicked me out of the college! Finally! Of course they warned my parents, who were careful not to come and see what had happened. My mother gave me some money (a telegraphic order) and I have been in a hotel since then in the town near the college.

Then my mother found me a tiny apartment there and they transferred me to the state high school. There were the girls! I had never seen one before, but I wasn’t interested in girls. But the world of the state school was completely different. The professors sometimes even talked about sex, no one forced us to go to mass, there was no spiritual father and we did physical education in a gym with locker room and showers, I couldn’t even imagine a trauma bigger than that .

You might think that in a situation like this I felt good, but it was not like that at all. I felt desperately alone, full of complexes, I had entered the locker room just once for a moment, but after I saw my naked mates I didn’t enter there anymore. They were all there joking and having fun but I just felt the heart beating at 180. The feeling of loneliness and isolation was total. I had a mini-apartment all of my own and fortunately the feeling of solitude sometimes seemed a feeling of freedom.

To prepare the exam I bought a computer and there a new world opened in front of me. Avalanches of free gay sex, but those things sickened me. A few years ago even in porn things were different, they were more vulgar, more aggressive and I didn’t like them at all. When I masturbated thinking about my schoolmates I was fine but when I tried to imagine myself in scenes like the ones I had seen on porn sites I was nauseated. In practice I saw that gay content on the net was all sex but in the most vulgar sense of the term.

I studied very little that year because I had to grow up in many other things. In the end I passed the final examination with a very low rating. But at least the school’s torture was over. I was sorry because the following year there would be no more chance to see my schoolmates naked in the locker room, what, by the way, had almost never happened, but at least there was the possibility.

I leave my apartment and I move to Milan in another apartment paid by my parents. A minimal thing. My parents lived in Milan but I would never have gone to their home, now we no longer called each other not even by phone, after my escape from the college I was considered just a blockhead and the low-grade of my diploma was the further proof of it.

I enrolled in Engineering at the Polytechnic shortly after I turned 20. So many guys and beautiful, but I was totally unable to maintain contact with them even at the minimum level, I felt embarrassed, I felt them more grown up than I was in every sense, even if my classmates had a year less than me. I had tried everything: I enrolled in the gym and then I never went there, I tried to see if it was possible to study with some of my colleagues but always went wrong, they were real geniuses, and I understood little or nothing at all.

The first year I passed a single examination with 19 [18/30 is the minimum score to pass an exam]. At least it was not 18! The second year I newly attended the same courses of the first and I passed a single exam again but with 20! I was 22 years old I was basically a failure from all points of view. Bad university results, practically between university and school, three years lost. I tried to repeat again the first year, but I could not endure it anymore.

My colleagues were three years younger than me and they understood everything, I didn’t understand anything and I didn’t study anything, I felt essentially a failure. I sent everything to ruin, I bought things to eat that went bad in the fridge, sometimes I didn’t get up from bed all day, I ate very little and lose weight dramatically. I have arrived to weigh 55 kilos, even though I am not very tall it’s anyway very few.

At the age of 23 I changed faculty and moved to Economics. The thing was more human and at the end of the year, working at terrible rhythms, I managed to do almost all the exams of the first year. At least from that point of view things started working again. I took my first degree at the age of 27! After too many years lost! I did the first year of the specialistic but of the exams that were planned I did little more than a half because I started working and I finally cut the economic cordons with my family. From this point of view, let’s say, I managed to return to the surface, but my emotional life, in practice, until recently didn’t exist at all.

Since last year I discovered Gay Project and I must say that for me it was an important thing. I read the forum every day and the guys who write there, it seems to me I almost to know them in person, a little I feel them as friends, because I don’t have gay friends. So basically until this year my sexuality was only fancy and I thought that a real contact with a guy, that is, something that gives you a strong sexual emotion I would never have tried it.

I had practically resigned myself to such a thing, resigned badly, let’s say so, because sometimes I saw some nice guys, I wanted at least to try to talk with them but I couldn’t really and I felt a sense of extreme despair. Now I work as an accountant, in practice I verify the “form 730”, “Unique” and things like that, work of low labor, but all in all I can live of my own.

At work, a 26-year-old guy arrived, rather nice, that is, I like him and he also attracts me sexually. Since I met him, it has been my only sexual fixed idea. I think all of you have gone through things like that. First you start to masturbate thinking of that guy, then it comes to your mind that you don’t know if he’s gay, well, I’ve overcome all these things, he told me he’s gay because I would never had such a courage and he also said that he likes me.

He had tried a minimum of physical contact with me but I rejected him badly, I did a kind of hysterical scene and then I ended up to cry, just an attack of despair, he was in a tremendous embarrassment and I was sorry very much because in the end I wanted him but I rejected him so violently that he got really scared and started to keep me at a distance. I could not understand why if I wanted him, and I wanted him madly, in the end I had attacked him like that.

That’s where the Project forum happened to me and I said to myself: I try, so what do I have to lose? And I called. At first a tremendous embarrassment. From what I’ve read many guys talk about sex in a very casual way but I just couldn’t.

The first time, we talked for hours but always in a very vague, and never about sex, I thought that Project was tired but no. Then I called him back, but still without talking about sex, the third time he called me, I was not expecting it and I was very happy and even the third time we didn’t talk about sex. In fact I had been looking for Project just to talk about sex and instead a very strange relationship was created which I was not really used to. A man that could be my father was talking with me for hours, he listened to me, a very strange feeling. I asked him why he was listening to me and he told me that he was at ease and in fact I was fine too, so I found the courage and told him about me, telling him a little about the story you read up to now. I also said of the anxiety that takes me when I’m with my friend and that I thought I would never be able to have a sexual contact with him.

One thing struck me: de-dramatization. Project took it for granted that it would not be a big problem and that it would be resolved soon and well. We talked about sexuality very freely. Well it was remarkable: I had no inhibitions, something that had never happened to me before when the talk ended up on sexual issues. I never thought I could talk freely with a man of that age and instead it just happened. Then in the following days, we talked often. If I have to tell the truth I felt the affection of Project, the attention to what I said and what I am.

Why did I write all this post? Well, the reason is one, yesterday, for the first time, I managed to kiss that guy. I had never experienced anything like this, just a feeling of total mutual abandonment. The time that stops and you end up to merge with another guy, a wonderful thing, let’s tell it, because of these things I’m not ashamed anymore, the excitement was such that I came to orgasm for a kiss! When I told this to Project, he told me some beautiful things. It’s true Project, being gay is a beautiful thing and makes you forget so many bad things you’ve been through. Now I consider that guy as my boyfriend, and he thinks the same! Guys! Never let anyone throw you down! I now feel like another person!

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