Concept of feeling of guilt

This chapter is dedicated to a reflection on the relationship between homosexuality and feelings of guilt. When a person has profoundly assimilated a code of behavior and performs actions that according to that code of behavior are reprehensible, that person experiences feelings of guilt. The feelings of guilt are the sign of the irreconcilability of having to be (behavioral code) and of being (actual behavior).

Function of the sense of guilt

It must be emphasized that the sense of guilt has a very important function in the maintenance of individual morality because its fundamental function consists in reorienting behaviors, leading them towards the respect for the rules.

An example can help to understand the concrete meaning of these concepts.
A guy receives a secret from a friend, then, with extreme lightness, he talks with other guys violating his friend’s privacy, gossip follows. The guy realizes that he has failed in the duty of confidentiality towards a friend who trusted him, he feels guilty for this, ad also feels the need to tell his friend to have stupidly told what should not have been told. The friend, seeing the real repentance of the guy forgives him. The story seems to end here, but in reality the guy who had transgressed the rule of confidentiality has learned a lesson in morality and when he will find himself in similar situations he will behave correctly. This is concretely the “physiological” function of the sense of guilt and, as we can see, it deals with fundamental psychological mechanisms of self-correction of one own behaviors.

Codes of behavior and individual well-being

In the example we have just seen, a condition has been taken for granted, that is that the violated code of behavior is a deeply assimilated and consciously shared code of behavior on the part of the guy who violated it. It is precisely this condition that leads to “physiological” feeling of guilt, that is, functional not only to restore respect for the behavioral code but also to improve the individual well-being of those who have transgressed it.

Respect for the code of behavior and individual well-being are often things very difficult to be implemented jointly or even irreconcilable and this happens when the code of behavior is not really assimilated and shared by the one who should put it into practice.

Let’s consider another example.
A guy had been induced, not to say forced, to tell his parents what his brother is doing because his parents wanted to know with whom the brother was usually talking on the phone or chatting. That guy, the first times, had adapted to the demands of his parents but then he began not to tell anything about what his brother was doing and this way he also felt the pleasure of transgressing what had been ordered by his parents. In reality the sense of guilt, anyway very relative, consequent to the transgression, was amply compensated by the conscience of having fulfilled a duty of solidarity which was considered to be of a much higher moral level than blind obedience to the parents.

It is precisely on the basis of mechanisms of this kind that even authentic acts of heroism are justified and motivated by soldiers who disobey orders in the name of respect for fundamental moral rules.

There is therefore a hierarchy of codes of conduct for which the violation of lower-level code provisions generate feeling of guilt only if the lower-level rules are compatible with higher-level moral principles, otherwise the lower-level rules are understood as substantially immoral and therefore the transgression to those norms is lived not only without feelings of guilt but even with the gratification that results from the transgression of an unjust norm.

Moral freedom and feelings of guilt

To judge a behavioral standard assimilated from the outside it is necessary to have a criterion of judgment that resides in a moral principle of a higher level, that is, to judge a norm of behavior assimilated from outside, a true free individual moral conscience is needed.

The freedom of the individual moral conscience is conquered over time and following a sometimes tortuous and difficult path.

Let us now try to take particular account of what a lot of gay guys experience every day. From a very early age hetero-centric education presents to children a well defined code of behavior for which heterosexual sexuality is the norm and gay sexuality is a deviance, heterosexual sexuality is physiology and gay sexuality is pathology. The result of this constant and subliminal process is the assimilation by all boys of a code of sexual behavior substantially heterosexual, this code will be functional for guys who will actually develop a straight sexuality but will inevitably be dysfunctional for the guys who will develop a gay sexuality.

The code of heterosexual sexual behavior, deeply assimilated by gay boys, in a phase in which there is not yet a real moral autonomy, ends up creating feelings of guilt, since a gay boy can’t however adhere to a behavioral code that is born for other needs.

Here is shown the discrepancy between the hetero norm and the individual good of the gay boy, that is not compatible with that norm. I would add that at an age in which individual moral autonomy has not yet been consolidated the rules of the hetero code will prove to be totally incontestable for the gay boy and in substance will be the only parameter of his moral judgment. Obviously the feelings of guilt will be profound and the frustrations arising from the impossibility of conforming to a code of behavior considered indisputable will produce environmental misadaptation and anxiety.

Dysfunctional attempts to overcome feelings of guilt

The mechanism mentioned above is not an abstraction and is observed systematically in younger gay boys who grew up in very religious settings. The code of behavior that that is proposed to them is slowly perceived as incompatible with the development of individual sexuality.
This results in frustrating attempts to align oneself with a sexuality that is not one’s own and, at sometimes, in real attempts to put all sexuality aside, which in turn result in heavy feelings of guilt and discouragement. Classics are attempts by gay boys to avoid masturbation or to focus their sexual fantasies on girls.

The conquest of moral freedom

Over time, however, the individual moral conscience gradually gains strength and the guys come to question the rules received from the outside and begin to feel them in contrast with other principles and above all with the principle of freedom and with the idea that “evil” is what causes real suffering in other people and not a generic transgression to a moral code supposed indisputable.
As the individual moral sense matures, guys begin to feel no more guilt related to the transgression of norms that are not compatible with their own individual moral principles. The feelings of guilt continue to exist but only in the presence of transgressions with respect to the moral principles of the guy himself, in this way the sense of guilt return to assume its physiological function as a mechanism of self-correction of individual action, which guarantees observance of the principles of a free individual morality.


We now come to consider an attitude that is not very common but neither uncommon among gay guys and that is self-degradation, the conviction of having big problems to solve and being unable to solve them, but I don’t intend here to refer to the problems arising from shyness or self-expression, I intend instead to refer to the self-degrading attitudes experienced by guys with rather free sexual behavior.
I am aware that what follows may cause perplexity and that someone will consider it an objective overturn of the most common way of thinking on the subject, but I think it is worth taking this risk.

Dangers of behavior patterns

Let’s start from a premise: we all tend to follow models of integration between affectivity and sexuality and models of couple relationships, these models can be points of reference but can also be the cause of a discomfort perceived by the guys in terms of impossibility or presumed impossibility to adapt to those models. It should be emphasized very clearly that the models of affection-sexuality integration, such as the models of couple life, represent precisely models which are often very difficult, if not impossible, to follow, i.e. models that are purely theoretical and substantially far from reality.

I try to present the concept through a concrete example. It is obvious that, at least in theory, the perfect integration of affectivity and sexuality is highly desirable, as is a couple’s life in which fidelity is absolute but, in fact, achieving full integration between affectivity and sexuality is very difficult as is maintaining an absolute couple fidelity, in particular when the couple’s life presents some tensions or when the choices at the base of the couple relationship have not been done completely freely and consciously or when the emotional exchange with one’s partner is not really deep. I mean that in order to achieve a perfect integration between affectivity and sexuality and a total mutual fidelity in a couple relationship, some preconditions must be verified, that often are not verified.

A relationship born with some original flaw will not realize the ideal models of couple life and this is not anyone’s fault but it is implicit in the premises. Often, however, gay guys are very negatively evaluated on the basis of the failure to achieve those goals and according to such evaluations they make a further logical leap, originally recognizing themselves inadequate.

Feelings of guilt induced by theoretical models

Even and especially for the most uninhibited guys, there is the idea of being somehow obsessed with sex and of being unable to live it in an affective dimension according to the commonly accepted theoretical models. Here it is necessary to define clear reference points. Sexuality is a fundamental interest for all guys, thinking about sex is a natural thing, not a pathological fixation. There are also addictions to sex but this category should be uses with great caution to avoid a too easy psychiatrization of behaviors that originally have nothing pathological but are experienced as pathological because of the fact that they are presented as such.

Homosexuality itself was considered pathological until a few decades ago and still today certain behaviors are often considered as pathological paraphilias. Exhibitionism and voyeurism have been considered pathological behaviors but, let’s understand each other well, a guy who is pleased with his own sex and shows it off online to another guy, perhaps in a sexually involving situation, has nothing to do with people who go around compulsively to show themselves in the nude to people completely unaware, and the same way a guy who spies on his friend (no matter if male or female) who takes a shower has nothing to do with pathological voyeurism.

Extrapolating these two examples, many behaviors in the field of sexuality, even if they don’t fall within the typical models of sexuality-affectivity integration and in the typical models of couple relationships, don’t however have anything pathological. I add an observation. We all grew up in a climate where the sexual dimension is clearly overestimated, both positively and negatively, there are sexual behaviors from which happiness is expected, but from which happiness doesn’t follow practically under any circumstances, and there are other behaviors to which we are brought to theoretically attribute a power destructive of the emotional life, even if such destructive power is not at all said to manifest actually.

Infidelity: the roots of betrayal

The spontaneous sexual fidelity is undoubtedly a symptom of the couple’s well-being. When a guy betrays, and even more when he repeatedly betrays, he is inclined to give about himself strongly negative judgments, to feel guilty for having gone to look for sex outside the couple. Rather than being dominated by feelings of guilt it would be useful for him to re-examine one’s couple life in search of what is wrong.

Betrayal very often does not result in a better psychological condition than the previous one, it doesn’t lead to building a new relationship but above all, if not only, manifests the intolerance towards the old one. And, I add, betrayal is not an unreasonable act or worse an act born of a pathological tendency to infidelity, but has roots, motivations in real life, which should be understood before thinking of being able to give any assessment of the betrayal in itself.

The real problem of the self-degradation of gay guys lies in hypothesizing their own original and somehow pathological inability to react according to the theoretical models commonly adopted and deemed indisputable, thus giving an ontological evaluation of themselves as incapable, unreliable, traitorous, etc. etc..

Frantic sexuality and emotional needs

Often the restless search for sexual contact has very little to do with sexuality in the technical sense and is the transposition on the sexual level of other needs of a largely affective type. The sexualization of affectivity on the part of a guy, especially in an environment where it is difficult if not impossible to find affective contacts, is a common reality and a guy who frequently seeks sexual contact is almost never dependent on sex but instead shows in that way his desire for affection and it is often a desire that has been frustrated for years.

The behavior of these guys appears to themselves as completely centered on sexuality but in reality, when the conditions for creating or maintaining sexual relations are not met, the emotional relationships that these guys have built up starting from sex, continue anyway, what would not happen if sexual interest were in fact the only drive to keep the relationship going. It often happens that a guy who has lived a difficult life is judged only on the basis of his formal behavior, completely neglecting all the facts that led him to those behaviors. In this way, seeing things exclusively from the outside, one can pronounce on that guy many judgements substantially unjust using abstract and moralistic categories completely inadequate to understand the substance of the problems underlying those behaviors.

Often, for a guy, the search for sexual contact is anything but a form of superficial recreation and instead has the meaning of getting involved altogether, asking the other for a real effort of understanding and participation, that is, asking the other to get out of the abstract categories of moralism.

What may appear to be a trivial sexual approach is sometimes a request for help, for understanding, a way to ask not to be classified with formal and superficial categories. A guy who, exasperatedly and I would say very emotionally and uneasily, looks for a sexual contact, certainly doesn’t want to be misjudged, he wants us to identify ourselves with his own point of view and to get to share something deeper with him.

Often, however, these guys get reactions of refusal or, worse, contemptuous judgments on the verge of immorality or even of mental illness. The discomfort in these cases can become very profound because it is experienced as a refusal of the person as a whole, generally follows a sense of inadequacy, ineptitude, inability to respect the rules that leads to self-degradation.

Internalization of the prejudice of others

A boy who feels his sexual behavior as not in line with the models of sexuality-affection integration and with the typical models of couple life, who lives a couple life in which the so-called betrayal is frequent and unsatisfactory, tends to react by blaming himself and feeling somehow unrecoverable, but the feelings of guilt are certainly not the best way to react.

One should ask oneself what is there upstream that does not satisfy, drawing the right conclusions. If the couple relationship is really lived as a value, it is possible to exit the chain of repeated betrayals, if on the contrary the couple relationship is radically unsatisfactory it is good to avoid carrying forward situations that generate more worries than gratifications. In a completely similar way a guy who tends to sexualise affectivity can feel deeply hurt by the judgment of others and can end up applying pathological categories to himself by introjecting the judgment of others, a judgment that in reality has nothing to do with the real motivations that guided that guy’s actions.

Having betrayed your boyfriend or seeking sexual contact as a substitute for emotional contact is not considered in itself a good thing, but such facts cannot and should not be considered superficially and above all cannot and must not permanently destroy, from within, the self-esteem of the guy who has betrayed (often inappropriate word) or who tends to sexualise affectivity.

Any situation can be changed profoundly if you really want it. Often, however, one gets the impression that the easiest choice is to abandon oneself to a basically passive and fatalistic position like: “I’m like that, I’m not trustworthy, I’m not worth anything!” Having betrayed your partner, even repeatedly, or having repeatedly sought sexual contact outside the couple doesn’t necessarily mean that you don’t feel affection for that guy or that you don’t have a deep affective life, it could also be so, but it could also be exactly the opposite. One thing should never be forgotten: that for a guy, before sexuality there is the need to be loved in the family, to be respected and sought by friends and to find around him a dimension of understanding and constant attention.

Moralism and inability to understand the betrayal

People often show very biased and moralistic attitudes with regard to betrayal, but such attitudes are also very schematic and superficial and certainly don’t aim to understand what there can be behind betrayal.

These attitudes are generally deeply internalized by the guys who have betrayed the partner and thus produce self-condemnations without appeal, sometimes followed by depressive states that could be avoided by seeing betrayal as a sign of the couple’s discomfort and not as something that definitely brands the person who betrays with a kind of indelible stamp. Something very similar happens with the tendency to sexualize the affectivity that is too easily judged with completely inappropriate moralistic categories that are internalized and create profound suffering.

Self-esteem and feelings of guilt

Self-esteem is one of the pillars of individual well-being, but it is a pillar whose strength depends strongly on individual experience. One of the worst things that can be done is lower the self-esteem of a guy and paste on him a label of unreliable, sexual maniac or serial traitor. The reality is often completely different from how it is represented through these appellations.


If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-homosexuality-and-feelings-of-guilt


This post is dedicated to the paraphilias in the homosexual field. As it is well known, the “Dagnostical and Statistical Manual of the Mental Disorders – Fifth Edition” (DSM-5) contains some useful definitions for circumscribing the field, first of all the distinction between paraphilia and paraphilic disorder, and then establishes the criteria for defining a diagnosis for some types of paraphilia. As it is obvious, DSM-5 is a fundamental indication of principle, aimed primarily at psychiatrists and takes into consideration many different situations that psychiatrists can encounter in the daily practice of the profession. The manual also has an indicative value for the knowledge of paraphilic phenomena that do not necessarily lead to paraphilic disorders but which are decidedly more common and are also found outside the areas of intervention typical of psychiatry. As there is a psychopathology of daily life so there is a widespread paraphilia of daily life that in some cases can move towards the borderline with true paraphilic disorders.

Obviously I will try to address the issue based on the experiences gained in Gay Project.

Some fundamental methodological observations must be kept in mind.

1) To get to talk about one’s own paraphilias, it is necessary to have the greatest guarantees of confidentiality, not just because it’s about matters related to sexuality but because certain behaviors can be criminally relevant, as it happens with pedophilia. It happened to me several times to talk with people who had pedophile fantasies, but not exclusive and, what is more important, never put into practice. Fantasies are an individual question, while behaviors are criminally relevant, so it is not surprising that only fantasies emerge.

2) Some paraphilias may involve forms of sexual contact with non-consenting persons (frotteurism) or forms of violence (sadism) or deception (voyeurism) and therefore are difficult to admit because they may involve moral discredit, if they remain at the level of fantasies, or even sanctions if you they produce concrete behaviors.

3) Some paraphilias (coprophilia, pissing, spermatophagia) can be very difficult to admit because they can generate repulsion.

4) It should be emphasized that, precisely for the above, only non-episodic paraphilias emerge in the interviews and often characterized by concomitant serious anxious states more or less connected with the paraphilia itself, so they are true paraphilic disorders.

5) Often more paraphilias manifest themselves together and a very complex picture is outlined closely related to the individual’s personal history.

6) From the talks emerge some constant correlations that seem to indicate causal links more than probable, as for example the fact that “all, without exception,” the people I met who had pedophile fantasies reported having suffered sexual abuse in childhood.

So, I think it is essential to emphasize an aspect of the paraphilias: the person who has paraphilic disorders often experiences the difficulty of relating “sexually” with another person because the presence of the paraphlia and the tendency to put it into practice in a sometimes obsessive manner arouse perplexities in the partner who sooner or later inevitably goes away because he has the impression that sexuality is literally dominated by the paraphilia or even reduced to it.

The feeling of rejection and abandonment almost always accompanies the life of the person who manifests paraphilias. The tendency to project his paraphilias to other subjects is often observed in the subject carrying paraphilias, assuming that others can react to those stimuli with a similar sexual excitement, but this is not realized at all and this is one of the reasons that make particularly difficult a sexual relationship with a person who has paraphilic disorders.

I would like to add to the paraphilias listed in the DSM-5 another paraphilia related to the unconscious involvement of another person in sexual intercourse: it is about having sex while talking about something else on the phone with another person with whom you had sexual relations. In this behavior the central element is the “betrayal” of the trust of the person with whom you talk about something else. It should be emphasized that when the transgressive behavior loses its transgression meaning because somehow it is accepted and justified by the partner and especially by the third person, it quickly loses its sexual meaning.

I have often observed boys with paraphilias who tended not to blame themselves or to try to change things but consider themselves elements socially excluded and almost condemned to live a life without affections, now definitively prey to a sexuality that cannot be shared with others. Often the reaction to the feeling of marginalization does not lead to depression but to forms of rationalization and critical examination of one’s sexuality. In practice, the person acts on two distinct levels, a rational one, in which solitude is accepted as something to live with and a sexual one, characterized by the loss of rational control and total abandonment to emotionality and inevitably to the paraphilia.

The real problem lies in building an affective relationship “compatible with sexuality”, because the person with paraphilic disorder generally has no problems in building a friendly relationship, if that relationship is born and keeps completely devoid of sexual values, the problems arise instead in relationships in which sexuality is explicitly involved. I have been able to observe several times as in such cases, in order to preserve at least the friendship, the person with paraphilic disorders has deliberately and rationally tried to avoid any chance of sexual involvement.

Who is involved in a relationship with a paraphilic guy, at the beginning, may not even realize it or can only perceive a polarization of his partner on the strictly sexual aspects of the relationship, then, with time, and with the development of the relationship, the paraphilic will come to talk about his problem with his partner for whom a period of doubts about the behavior to be held will start, with continuous oscillations between a minimization of the problem and a greater awareness.

As I have already said, some paraphilias do not undermine affective relationships, but they heavily condition their possible sexual developments. The paraphilic needs love, is generally a pleasant person and tends to keep the paraphilia only at the level of fantasies or talking with a reliable partner and often gives a value of transgression to behaviors that have very little transgressive and tends to emphasize some of his transgressive behaviors as if they were habitual even if they occurred only once. Boys who have paraphilias need first of all respect and feel hurt by preconceived reactions and discriminatory behavior. Their need to integrate makes them generally pleasing to their friends and also to their sexual partners with whom they usually have a very honest interview and do not tolerate hypocritical behavior. I have often been able to notice how many paraphilias are connected to childhood experiences and tend reproduce situations of childhood experience, a childhood experience that remains very present in children’s memories and which they consider to be the basis of paraphilias.

The re-elaboration of childhood experience and its rationalization are indispensable conditions for getting out of the dependence on the paraphilias. Generally I am rather reluctant to the idea of an easy recourse to the intervention of a psychologist, but in front of the paraphilias the presence of a psychologist cannot be replaced by that of a friend or worse of the partner, because a friend or the partner can to be involved very deeply on an affective level and not only, and they are certainly not the most suitable people to help their friend in the recovery of rationality and above all in the elaboration of childhood experience.

The difficulty of the paraphilic to create a shared emotional-sexual relationship is due to the obsessive mechanism of the paraphilia, not to the paraphilia itself. If the paraphilia does not present itself obsessively, it would be only a temporary variant of sexual behavior that probably would not generate problems within the couple, but the paraphilias always present with an obsessive mechanism, are a kind of fixed idea that the person must realize on the basis of a real addiction relationship, there can be periods of abstinence more or less long, relatively free from the paraphilia, which then however ends up reappearing and makes the rational mechanism of abstinence collapse.

Often periods of abstinence are interrupted when the attempt to build a sexual relationship detached from the paraphilia meets unexpected difficulties, that is when the person experiences for the umpteenth time the mechanism of rejection. The return to the paraphilia through a sexual contact with a partner who accepts it, even if only episodically, provokes a feeling of security and control over that partner and is therefore at least relatively reassuring. But these are experiences that do not involve a real sharing of sexuality and that also leave a strong feeling of precariousness and non-genuine correspondence at the level of the couple.

I have seen people subject to paraphilias who more than once, after a series of failures in the creation of emotional-sexual relationships, have ended up putting aside the idea of having a partner with whom to build a relationship and have operated a kind of splitting between affectivity and sexuality, reserving the affectivity to friends with whom they maintain a stable relationship without sexual implications and experiencing sexuality, with some occasional partners, usually always the same, with which however any implication of affection is excluded a priori.

When I speak of occasional partners I do not intend to refer to unknown people found on the internet through dating sites or with particular applications, but almost always to ex-boyfriends, and this because while ex-boyfriends are more or less aware of the existence of the paraphilia and somehow accept it, strangers completely unaware would almost certainly be negatively affected and would not comply, thus accentuating the sensation of impossibility and rejection.

Guys affected by paraphilias are not the only victims of paraphilia, because even the guys who try to build emotional-sexual relations with them live complex and contradictory experiences and they often go into crisis because seeing that things do not go, they try to understand who is responsible for it, and in this way or they blame the person affected by paraphilias who seems strange to them, complicated and in some way pathological, or they blame themselves, because they were not able to bear everything in the presumption that loving a person means accepting that person by sharing everything, and even the pathologies.

The most wrong attitude towards a person with paraphilias consists in considering the paraphilias a kind of game made to experiment. This attitude manifests a radical misunderstanding of the seriousness of the problem and causes those who experience it to live a profound suffering, while they deserve the utmost respect. I add an obvious observation, but particularly important in these cases: people who come to talk about their own paraphilias have the right to maximum confidentiality and any violation of this confidentiality is a real wound to those who, seriously speaking about problems that are not at all easy to talk, are actually asking for help.


If you want, you can participate in the discussion of this post open on the Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-homosexuality-and-paraphilias


Hi Project,
yesterday night you had a really huge patience. We talked until late at night, it was almost three o’clock. You know that my fixed subject is my ex. I had called you to let off steam for a while because I had not heard from him for several days. Even though he is no longer my boyfriend, we kept on staying in touch all the same. No sex, only talking, but I experienced very partially the trauma of detachment just because we continued to stay in touch. 
In short, yes, I considered a bit like a betrayal the fact that he didn’t call me for 15 days, as if it were a way to tell me or make me understand that I’m worth nothing for him, and I was beginning to process all the thing in the classical terms of betrayal: he has sex with another guy and he doesn’t care about me, so he just made fun of me, etc. etc., so I am the victim and I must hate him, but I don’t hate him at all, I just cannot. It is true that he has sex with another guy, but at least up to 15 days ago he remembered me and took me seriously. 
The thing that struck me most when I showed you all my beautiful claiming speech expecting you to console me and allow me to be a victim, was your way of reacting. You asked me if I really loved him and I told you yes, then you asked me if it’s him who calls me or I’m the one who calls him and I told you he always calls him. You replied that “true love is another thing”. I stayed bad for it, I felt offended, clubbed instead of understood and I could not give it an explanation. 
You asked me if I had ever worried about how he really was and I didn’t know what to answer. You also told me that in your opinion he cares about me and not a little, maybe even more than I care about him, I was very puzzled and I began to ask myself a lot of questions. I slept very little at night and I continually thought about my ex. In fact when we say that we fell in love with a guy we say it in view of our happiness, if we want to call it so, not in view of his happiness, and instead we should worry first of all about his happiness. I felt like a perfect fool who thinks he understood everything about love and instead he didn’t understand anything, one that confuses love and possession. 
This morning I did something I never did, in theory for fear of annoying, but actually to keep me at a safe distance from him. I picked up the phone and called him. It was clear that he was happy to hear me, I asked him why he had not called me again and he told me that he was afraid of bothering me and that was probably the case. We were about to lose contact just because we thought we understood each other’s reactions while we didn’t understand anything at all, neither he nor I! 
We talked for more than an hour in a very serious and affectionate way, not with mawkishness as engaged couples who exchange pampering but with a true affection, that doesn’t faint for any reason. In fact we broke up, it’s true, but we continued to love each other. I felt him in crisis with his boyfriend, he really fell in love but the other guy is not in love with him in the same way, my ex sees him elusive, sometimes looking for excuses not to meet him and he thinks his boyfriend is probably getting busy to find a guy with whom to feel better than he is with him. Now, my ex would not be upset if his current boyfriend was looking for another guy, in fact it is what he did with me, what he cannot stand is doing things secretly, not to speak clearly, answering in an evasive way. 
He was used to the utmost clarity when we were together, we used to say everything even in a brutal way, if it came spontaneously. After all, we decided together even the fact of separating, even if it seems paradoxical, and it has not been destructive for either of us. Now he feels degraded, little considered, he feels more like an object than like a person, he has the impression that he is only a marginal figure for his current boyfriend. I too sometimes told him no, maybe because I was tired for work, but I never kept him at a distance. 
I continue to think of him very often, he says that of our relationship he especially valued sex, but I think the key thing was just love each other, it was also for this that sex had a strong sense, because sex is not something technical. With the new guy there is a lack of warmth, they are always chatting on the phone as two sweethearts, with a lot of smilies and ILY, but in the end, that other guy doesn’t try to spend as much time as he can with my ex, and told him that he is a bit neurotic and that he “should try to improve” his character and this has put him in crisis because my ex is easily in crisis for these things and feels himself guilty of everything. 
I don’t know if their relationship will end, it can happen but not necessarily, at least for a while, because apparently things are going on, but I wonder: how is it possible that that guy doesn’t even notice that my ex does not feel at ease? How is it possible that he doesn’t notice it? Or maybe he doesn’t really care, but then why chatting and little hearts? He’s not a kid, he’s a grown man and he should understand that you cannot play with other guys. But I see my ex less prostrate than he was in similar situations before we got together. What I’m afraid of is that he can go a bit in depression, because when he was with that guy at the beginning and things were fine, I saw him truly serene, I would say sometimes just as happy as I had not seen him for years.
One thing I understood, Project: to love a guy, there is no need to go to bed with him, and even if you go to bed with a guy, that guy, in essence, may not really matter anything, as you say : “Love is another thing!”
If you want, post this email on the forum, because It could be useful for someone.
Still many good wishes for a Happy New Year!
If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-true-gay-love-and-ex-boyfriends


CHAT September 19, 2012 AT 9:05

Henry wrote: Hello Project! Thanks for the contact

Project wrote: Hello Henry! Nice to meet you!

Henry wrote: I would not bother you, but if you have a little time I’d like to talk about something

Project wrote: At this time of the morning you can be sure that there is no one, I have all the time you want

Henry wrote: So if you want I go straight to the point, okay?

Project wrote: Yes, yes, of course!

Henry wrote: So I am 28 y. o., live in southern Italy, we say that in practice until recently I had no experience of relationships (I’m not talking about sex) with gay guys.

Henry wrote: In my village there are gay people, that is obvious, there are but it’s as if there weren’t at all and this is because no one would take well such a thing,

Henry wrote: so basically I have lived for years just on the web but now I’ll explain. I met 3 or 4 guys in a dating site

Project wrote: I recommend be always attentive to the prevention, sorry if I remind you, but for me this is the first concern when I talk with the guys.

Henry wrote: No, wait, with those guys I have not done anything, first of all because they were not close to my village and then because the fear that someone might discover us was such that you could not even imagine

Henry wrote: and I liked one of those guys (only one and just a bit so to speak), however this is not the point, I told you of dating just to get you to understand that where I am I can’t go anything concrete with guys.

Project wrote: Ok, got it!

Henry wrote: Imagine that the guy I liked best suggested that we could have sex in cam but I said no because I was afraid that maybe he could record everything, I was sad a lot, but I did not want to risk at all, I suggested only a voice chat without cam and he sent me to hell, but still…

Henry wrote: I wanted to make it clear that for me to think I could have a true story with a guy is just not possible

Henry wrote: … then at some point in mid-June there is this guy in my village for the holidays, we knew each other since we were kids. He (I’ll call him Mark) is my age and has been working at a good level, but in a big city and far away from here.

Henry wrote: in short, we were in the street one evening, he alone, and I alone, although there was a lot of people because here, in the afternoon, in the summer, people go around back and forth. He greets me and I reply, and then starts a little conversation

Henry wrote: you know, the usual stuff, you got a job? And what do you do? But no questions about girls. Only work. We met again in the evening sometimes, walking in the country, a couple of times we had a coffee together. The conversation always very vague.

Henry wrote: After he has been in the village for 15 days he comes to greet me at home with the excuse to say goodbye to my father, who knows him from when he was little, then we exchange msn contacts and he goes, but so, just like nothing had happened.

Henry wrote: Just got home he shows up on msn and we begin to talk for hours, at the beginning the conversation was like that when he was in the village, then became more free and the idea that he wanted me to understand something that he didn’t dare to say openly began to cross my mind, and I was also pleased,

Henry wrote: of course I didn’t put myself in the open, however, my imagination started running about this guy. Then he tells me he has a dear friend, his best friend (let’s call Cindy), which is a very good girl, etc., and then I said to myself that Cindy was not only his best friend because he spoke a little too much about her but she was just his girlfriend,

Henry wrote: but if she was his girlfriend I think he would have told me, there was no reason not to tell me. He talked a lot about Cindy, then told me that she was engaged with a guy,

Henry wrote: and then I thought she was not his girlfriend just because she had a boyfriend, but that Cindy was obviously the girl he liked better and perhaps he was secretly in love with.

Henry wrote: Meanwhile the days go by, we talk about many things, but never about girls, in the sense of girlfriends, and he often tells me about Cindy as the girl that every guy would like to have beside him. Cindy was sweet, smart, knew how to keep a secret, when his presence was necessary not denied anything, etc.

Henry wrote: at one point I asked him if he was in love with Cindy and he told me: No! It’s just a friend and he strongly emphasized that it was not in love with Cindy and not because she had a boyfriend but because she didn’t attract him sexually.

Henry wrote: From there on the exploration of the emotional life began. He told me that he had never had a crush on someone, I said, neither I,

Henry wrote: then in a completely unexpected he added: “I never had a crush on a girl.” I felt very embarrassed and asked him: “What do you mean?” Then he said “maybe” one can have a crush on a married woman. But in my opinion that “maybe” placed just there sounded curious.

Henry wrote: We continued to talk late into the night, then he asked me: “Do you believe that there are really those who have a crush on a friend? That is just on a guy? ”

Henry wrote: I replied “I think such things are quite common or at least are not rare, I think there is absolutely nothing absurd.” Then he asked me: ” Have you ever thought it?” I told him, “Do not embarrass me …” He insisted: “But sometimes have you thought it?” Then I said, “Well, sometimes yes,” and he added. “Sometimes I’ve thought it too”

Henry wrote: Now the ice was broken, we got to tell each other clearly that we were gay, but always with a lot of fear of being caught, with thousands of recommendations to remove the conversation from msn etc.

Henry wrote: In the following days he tells me that he trusted only with Cindy and she knows how to keep a secret, that Cindy is his best friend and that he trusts her as a sister. He tells me what Cindy said about me and it bothers me, but he says that I do not have to worry because she is a beautiful girl and he trusts her as himself, etc.

Henry wrote: Then he said “you have to know her; you will certainly be completely at ease with her. And there, for the second time, it bothered me. I had told him of my things, the relationship with my father and my mother, nothing special, but my things, very private feelings that perhaps they had understood and that I did not want to tell them I was gay,

Henry wrote: and he tells me that he spoke about me with Cindy and that in his opinion I could be pleased to talk with Cindy, and begins to tell me that he would like to give my msn to Cindy, so we could speak with confidence. All this happened yesterday, now I do not know what to do,

Henry wrote: I do not like at all the idea that he is under the thumb of this friend of his, because I start to think that he really is. If I have a relationship with a guy I’d like to keep that relationship only between me and that guy

Henry wrote: in short, I would not want to become a topic of conversation between Mark and Cindy.

Henry wrote: Then there’s another thing I do not like at all, he is possessive, he asks me where I’m going and with whom, he looks for me in the evening and if I do not answer, he just starts telling me that he had been worrying and starts questions, where have you been? With whom? What have you done? Etc.

Henry wrote: There is one thing holding me back a lot, otherwise I would have already sent him to hell, but you know, he really exists and perhaps he thinks about us like a couple as a possible thing, he is a nice guy and this is very important and then if he ends up with me, here, can I find another gay? I think it is very difficult.

Project wrote: Well, of course the story of Cindy seems a bit strange, almost like a form of addiction.

Henry wrote: It does not appear, it is! He always puts her between, such as parsley. Cindy, in fact, encouraged him to take up with me but if she had discouraged him I do not know if he would have tried, it’s a bit as if he were a little autonomous in deciding, Cindy for him is a bit like the teddy bear for children,

Henry wrote: it is as if he needed approval. I do not know what to think because I also had some friends which I loved but my love life was only mine, I would never have dreamed of talking to them about too personal things.

Project wrote: But beyond these conversations in chat you think he might care really build a relationship with you? Because you are not in the same town.

Henry wrote: Frankly, I do not know and a little I am inclined to think that this is the first time he starts a love story or at least tries to, I do not know what to think. Project, can I ask a favor?

Project wrote: Of course! If I can.

Henry wrote: Now my parents are ranting because we have to go out together, if you like we can continue tonight, midnight is it possible?

Project wrote: Ok, ok, go quiet, we’ll continue at midnight. A hug. See you! Bye!

CHAT September 19, 2012 AT 23:55

Henry wrote: Are you there?

Project wrote: Yes, I am!

Henry wrote: Project, I gave up, I was disappointed, I told him that we can still be friends but I do not feel like going on, I told him because of the distance, but in reality it is that he did something that really I cannot stand and he also told me it. He is not a trickster but he is dangerous, because you cannot trust him

Project wrote: Ok, but what happened?

Henry wrote: He calls tonight at ten, all peaceful, which is not usual from him, and tells me I’m really a nice guy, etc. and so disorients me a bit, he tells me he has spoken so much about me with Cindy and she thinks very highly of me!

Henry wrote: I told him that she still does not know me and he says that he usually gives Cindy the logs of our conversations, just at that moment was as the alarm had sounded, I tried to make him understand that I care my privacy and that even indirectly he had bothered me

Henry wrote: but he said that I should not be afraid of Cindy, which for him is more than a sister, and so on. For him to think that I could be annoyed that he always puts Cindy in the middle was just impossible.  For Cindy he said he had no secrets because she is an exceptional person, etc.

Project wrote: Well, but are you sure that this guy has all the wheels in place? Because this story does not bode well at all

Henry wrote: Well, when he was here I thought he was a normal guy, beyond the story of Cindy he never behaved in a strange manner, and he works and where he works it’s not that easy to forgive the oddities.

Project wrote: But then he realized? That is when you started to move away, did he realize why?

Henry wrote: No, I do not think so, I put things only about distance and he insisted that he could come to me at least every 15 days, or tried to tell me that the distance was not a big deal but I think for him it’s impossible to think that Cindy, or rather its dependence on Cindy, may be the cause

Henry wrote: of my will to cut the rope. He also said that sometimes he goes out with Cindy and they go to the place where he works and said that when Cindy goes with him she dresses elegant. But he nevertheless insisted that between him and Cindy there was nothing.

Project wrote: So much for nothing! Maybe they don’t go to bed together … so I thing you were right to cut the rope.

Henry wrote: Project, however, it’s not that he is out of his mind, in his environment and as well here in the village people consider him a lot, he studied and graduated successfully and earns a lot of money

Project wrote: Yes, yes, but no one will take away from my head that there is something that does not work well, sorry, with all due respect for this guy but in the end what did you do? You cut the rope because you think there is something that sounds strange

Henry wrote: Well, in fact, in the story with my now ex-boyfriend, I do not want Cindy in the middle, whoever she is, that is, to me, I don’t like such things.

Project wrote: Have you doubts?

Henry wrote: What about?

Project wrote: The choice to cut the rope?

Henry wrote: No! At this point no doubts at all! If he was as handsome as Apollo as well … so I talk about intimate things with a guy who wants to be my boyfriend and what does he do? He makes Cindy reading! No! For heaven’s sake, I do not want to be under the tutelage of none!

Project wrote: I fully understand and agree with you; at least you have escaped the danger!

Henry wrote: I think so … Project, do you mind if I go to sleep? It all happened today…

Project wrote: Go, Go, Go! Good night, and especially be serene! You only averted possible troubles and maybe even big ones.

Henry wrote: Oh I know, but I still have a bitter taste, because a little I had believed…

Project wrote: One thing, you say that I can post the log of our chat? I think it could be important for several young guys.

Henry wrote: If you want to post it I agree, however, look first if there are too explicit elements. Night Project!

Project wrote: Good night!


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