I read a lot on your forum and also the manual Being Gay and I breathed a sigh of relief, from these readings comes out an image of gay life that is very close to what I live. I had surfed a lot on the Internet looking for something realistic, but frankly I was always disappointed. I also spent a period approaching chats and apps dedicated to gays and there, for me, it was just like going to explore the moon. I wondered: but how is it possible that there are no “normal” gay guys, that is guys not obsessed with sex and no too much engaged with the gay movement, guys who mustn’t necessarily have a flag. I, with one exception that you will soon understand, have never seen the classic next door gay guy. Ok, we are few, even if not very few, but I didn’t see even a single gay guy and I didn’t even perceive a vague trace of them, just zero!
I’m 26 years old, throughout the university period I was very careful to spy on possible gay signals but I didn’t find any, or at least some clues were so labile that I was discouraged from going forward at any level. Then I found Gay Project, there were many beautiful testimonies, but, Project, are all old, even several years old, of this year there is very little, almost nothing, in short, Project, gay guys have escaped also from Gay Project! Where did they go? I think in the apps that explode for how many people you can find there, but it’s a shame, because the forum serves to reflect and understand something of the lives of others and also of one’s own live. However, I close this parenthesis and come to the main motivation for my email. In practice, the story is about my relationship with the chats and some people known in chat, especially with one.
A couple of years ago, after a thousand hesitations, after doubts, scruples and everything you want, I register on a famous app for gay dating, I don’t name it, but I think you understand what I mean. When I enter for the first time I feel like Pinocchio in the Country of the toys. I said to myself: “But it’s all so easy! But how did I not understand it before? I was totally stupid!” I get the first contact. I expect something very rough: four questions and then to the point! But no, I find a very kind guy who asks me how long I have been using the app, what is my name, in which region of Italy I am, etc. etc., in practice a normal chat, then asks me if we can see each other on cam, here I remain very perplexed, a little I had to imagine it, but then and there I felt caught on the counterattack, I finally told him that I didn’t feel like doing it, he tried to insist, but I didn’t change my mind and then he greeted me with a very characteristic phrase: “So what are you doing here?”
However, that experience put me in front of a Shakespearean doubt that I had to solve: “Cam or not cam?” In the end I told myself that app without cam makes no sense and I decided that I would show up on cam (dressed, of course !). At the next contact, more or less the same ritual, a little chatter and then the request to go on cam. I open the cam, but I find myself in front of a guy who doesn’t inspire me: long dirty nails, greasy hair, no! Just repellent and moreover probably over 40! Before making him talk I told him brutally: “You’re not my type, I’m not interested, bye!” He replied with unspeakable insults: “Piece of sh.t … you’re beautiful! Ugly asshole!!” Then I closed and it ended there.
After an abstinence from the app lasted a few days, I try again, at the beginning the script is more or less the usual, we open the cam, well, this time I have to say that the guy gives me a good impression, he’s not the guy of my dreams, but I think it’s worth trying with him, but he immediately freezes me: “No, forget it! You’re not my type, I like more fat guys, I’m sorry, Bye!” After having been put down this way, I deleted the app, but a couple of months later I downloaded it again and this time at the first shot I make bingo, I like the guy, he’s young, he says he’s 23 years old, moreover he’s nice and he doesn’t close the cam but goes on chatting.
We speak, in practice never talk about sex, but he doesn’t even talk about women as happened with a guy I had met in a chat. Let’s say this he was not bad, we spend a week chatting and he never talks about sex, ok, I tell myself that maybe he’s a bit ‘inhibited, on the other hand he’s young, we spend chatting another week and we talk about everything from fractals to quarks, from mandalas to coelacanth but we never talk about sex. I have never endured those who speak immediately about sex, but before or after we must come to the point.
I do not know whether to start the speech, but I don’t even know where to start from, I let him talk, but he starts to talk about Chinese cinema and things like that, so I cannot stand him anymore and I say to him: “But why did you look for me on the app? And he told me, I looked for you because I know you well … ” I tell him that I had never seen him and he answers me in a completely unexpected way: “If you are referring to what you saw in cam, that’s not me, he’s a friend who made himself available … ” I began to be afraid because I didn’t know who I was talking to and I feared something bad, like blackmail or maybe he could also have been a psychopath. He told me: “I know many things about you! I know that this morning you went late to work …”
Here I began to really worry, he could be some of my work colleagues, it seemed strange that someone followed my movements and spied on me, I didn’t understand what motivation could lead to similar things. Then before I wrote my answer he closed. I felt agitated, I didn’t sleep at night. Who could be interested in spying on me? And if the guy knew I was late at work he could only be one of my colleagues. In the morning I go to work, but I have the impression that nothing has changed, the three colleagues with whom I work and sometimes I even chat a bit every day don’t show signs of any kind. Things are not clear at all.
Who could know that I had arrived late for work? The guy does not show up for two days, I don’t know if I feel more comfortable or more agitated, then I get a message: “You’re puzzled eh … I can understand you!” I tried to make myself feel calm and to widen the speech in order to have some more elements to understand what was happening. He replied: “I feel that you are worried and that you pretend not to be, you must learn to recite better.” I was puzzled and asked him: “Who are you? What do you want from me?” He replied: “I’m your conscience! And I want to bring you to think a little bit. I know you, I know that today at the bar you didn’t have the usual breakfast, you chose something different, but why? Maybe are you agitated?” “But I totally ban you and close this shit of an app!” “Certainly you can do it, but the idea of being controlled will remain, there are so many ways … ” And he closed.
I tried to remember who was near me at the bar but I had not noticed anyone, at least I had ruled out that it was a work colleague, because in the morning at the bar there was nobody I knew, but someone obviously knew me. However, in the following days the guy would not have returned to my bar, of this I could be sure. He said he was my conscience and wanted to make me think. Could he be a person I don’t know? But what interest would push a stranger to make all this comedy? However, for every good purpose I banned him and I deleted the app again.
A few days later I went into a chat where I used to go sometimes even before, and I got a call from a stranger with nickname “Mattew92-bis” and it alarmed me because Mattew92 was my nickname. He asks me: “How are you?” I ask him right away if we know each other and he says “Sure!” Then he adds: “You did well to delete the app, but what are you looking for here?” I told him: “But who are you? Because you are becoming an obsession for me!” He replied: “No! Just shut down the chat and I disappear!” And I said to him: “But then I find you somewhere else?” He just said, “We’ll see” and he broke off.
I permanently closed my account on the chat and then I came back to it with a different nick, but he was still there and told me: “Why are you playing with me? What do you do you? You get out and then re-enter?” I insist: “Who are you? If you don’t tell me, I go to the police.” He said to me: “And if I were the police?” I insisted, “Are you a cop?” And he closed. I was really scared and didn’t know what to expect, then I received an email from “Mattew92-bis”, I quote it below.
“Hello Matthew, from now you will not hear me again, I’m sorry if I made you worry, my name is Matthew too, and I was born the same year and the same month you were born, but a few days later. I live in front of your house, you’ve never noticed me but I have watched you for a long time, you leave the window open and you have a mirror behind your back that allows me to see what you do at the PC even if you don’t know, I know you’re gay, don’t worry, because I’m gay too, and I’ll not disgrace you, the day you were late at work I followed you from home to where you work, when you had breakfast differently I was in the bar, but you didn’t even notice me, when you enter the chat I see it immediately and I also know your nick, for the application I have a version a little modified by me, I can detect gays that I have around me but they cannot detect me because my location is fixed and always in the same place. If you look at the window you can see from where I look at you: there is a green tent with drawn circles, one of those circles is a hole and from there I look at you with a powerful telescope. Now probably you too will put a tent behind the window, and I will not have my show anymore, but, instead of chasing guys on apps and chats, why don’t you come visit me? You are really a nice guy, I … well … it’s not up me to judge, but I am attaching a photo of me, so you can understand who I am! I wait for you, now you know where to find me! Please note that I’m not looking for sex, then if sex comes by itself, ok, but I’m looking for a serious gay friend and I know it could be you, if you’ll ever forgive me.”
I opened the picture and it occurred to me that I had seen that guy a couple of times in passing and he was also a handsome guy. I took courage and went to his house. I told him that he had made me worry a lot, and that he finally made the voyeur. He replied: “Yes, it’s true, it started like this, but then you really intrigued me.”
Actually he was not looking for sex, I don’t know if there will be sex sooner or later, I hope so, but I’m fine even without sex, I found a totally unexpected friend. He didn’t want me to go to chats because he wanted me to think only of him, now we see each other every day, because he lives right in the building in front of mine, he’s a guy with a monstrous intelligence and he really cares about me. Where the story will end up I don’t know but it seems like a good story and then, seen closely he’s just beautiful, sweet but also confident, reassuring.
Well, I was not expecting a coming out like that. I didn’t put any curtains at the window, I saw his telescope with which he spied on me, it was a huge, very heavy, professional tool, he told me was equipped with a 35 cm mirror, and you could see everything even the smallest details. He told me that the first thing that had struck him was that in my house there were never girls and that everything started from there, a beautiful guy (he says I’m beautiful), no girls … the thing must be deeply analyzed! And he did bingo! He made me shit with fear but now we are two gay friends! And he is not a pathological case as I had feared!
I hug you, Project, and thanks for your skype contact, I’ll call you soon.
If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-gay-guys-between-apps-and-cams
I too have been was with a guy who has literally destroyed my life, finally after years of profound solitude (many have consoled me but no one really understood me, not having lived the same things in first person), only in this forum finally I found someone who knows how these situations can be painful. Even my ex, while never having loved me, obsessively sought me when I left him, and I came back with him many times, he had declared his feeling to me too early, he used to kiss me mechanically … it’s all so familiar, so similar to what a had read many times on the forum!
My ex is also very misogynist. He writes very angry postings on Facebook in which he says that in his life he has been only with some bitches, for him a woman is worth the other, and when I asked him reassurance about us he seemed amused not giving me any answer, he was sorry for my “affective rants”, he said I was stupid because I was a girl, a girl who doesn’t like being contradicted, and he would have liked me to be more military, harder, a real shitty woman, solar and strong. Moreover, he compared me to all the women he had known, even to my friends, to my sister, letting me understand that they were better than me.
Then when I tried to leave him he threw himself at my feet and said he had a sickness inside, which led him to treat people badly … then when I “got back” with him, he immediately became another time the usual asshole. When we had sex it seemed like a funeral march, it was something that he did without joy, and I didn’t know what he was thinking about, but he never hugged me warmly, never pampered if not with embarrassment and a sort of disgust, superficial caresses, then he immediately he used to snort saying I was a person accustomed to ask for too much. He liked, however, to receive cuddles, like a child, with the excuse that he was sick. I felt like I was his mother or a whore to be despised, depending on the moments. You cannot understand, or perhaps only you who read here, you can understand that suffering, that absurdity I have experienced.
But I do not think I’m a victim because I partly knew he was gay. I was aware of some things, the relationship he had with his best friend and his anaffectiveness, the relationship he had with his mother (this is perhaps a common place), the total disinterest he had for intimacy with me … It was as if he was missing * that thing *, and I don’t want to say the penis, but the instinct to be close to me emotionally and physically, which then becomes a body in the sexual act. He is fixed with girls, he always speaks with this tone of … I don’t know, of blame, horror, it is not clear why he runs behind them, according to what he tells about it, and in general girls refuse even his friendship because he is not able to enter their sympathies, treating them as badly as he usually does.
All this is despite his being a handsome guy, that pushes initially all girls to speak to him and become curious about him (he is also clever and witty, original and creative) … Looking back I know that he loves me very much, he simply doesn’t accept me for what I’m: a woman. He used to say that I was playing the role of the female while I behaved in an absolutely natural way. He used to watch me cry in silence as if he could not connect with my pain. Sometimes he was kind, he was not a monster, let’s be clear. But he couldn’t be a loving guy. He used to show me affection only in the scene in which he was ill and I took care of him as a mother-nurse, and he in the grip of his “depression” (which I suspect is his repression) pretended to be dying and asked me to soothe his pain with my magical power or something, he asked me to feel his heart, to be near him … all the things he missed in normal moments, only that they were totally disconnected from the sexual dimension. His sexuality was all sadism in practice.
I talked a lot about him because what we lived still hurts. We were very close, symbiotic, and we really loved each other, even if we hurt ourselves and it is better for both of us to stay away (these situations are so absurd and contradictory) … I didn’t say anything about myself because I was with him even though I felt he was gay. But I want to say it because other people can pass through here and they could benefit from my experience as it happened to me.
So, first of all, I could not be sure that he was gay. He used to throw me many clues but he never told me it clearly and openly. Nor could he do it, because the problem between us was just that, he could not open up with me, there was place only to hurt me to vent his pain and to lie (even to himself), tell me stories, sell me his fictitious personality … there was no space neither to listen to me nor to truly express himself. If he is really gay, I don’t think he has accepted it at all, and if he has accepted it he denies it with all his strength.
Second: having a guy probably homosexual but who can have sex with women and has really sex with you from a certain point of view is a good move if you’re an insecure girl, because you know he cannot betray you. And also because (sorry if I use a stereotype but in my case it was so) with a gay guy you can have a friendship that with a straight guy is impossible to have. I remember that I really appreciated his patience, his passion for psychology, his gossip, his eye for aesthetics, the way we could talk for hours about how our male friends were, how they reasoned and so on … then when we wanted to, we also had sex, and I didn’t feel tested by him, because I knew he was thinking more than anything to himself while we were doing it, it was the affection towards me and his need to “unload” that motivated him, not my desirability as a woman … The price I paid for this “comfortable” relationship was the frustration of my real need, which is not only physical but also emotional and psychological. I had much more desire than him, and he began to say that I was nymphomaniac, he went around saying that even after we had separated.
So it was the fault of both of us for me. I knew, deeply, that I wasn’t really in love with him. He missed that light in the eyes that seemed to me to be the most important characteristic of the man I dreamed to have beside me. But when I tried to get away he was chasing me in every way. When I changed the phone number, he wrote to my sister, to my best friends, insistently, to know where I was … He didn’t respect my very simple request to be left alone to get over our story. When he thought I had canceled him he tried to come back with me. Perhaps he didn’t want to lose me because I had been more or less the only one who had seen him, albeit consciously deluding herself, like the straight man he wanted at all costs to be. Losing me meant losing the person who most believed in his artificial personality, the one he spent and still spends his life to sculpt and finish, full of artificial justifications about why he’s not normal, he is not like the other guys, he cannot stay in touch with people or women, because women are stupid and have to be more like men …
There is perhaps a third reason, sweet-bitter, that pushed me to stay with him, apart from the fear of a true love and the fear of be wrong about him, and it’s a mixture of voyeurism and pity. Something morbid, a curiosity almost like a reporter. He seemed to me and still seems, a striking case of how the repression can completely destroy the life of an individual.
Standing near to him I lived a kind of perverse reality show in which I expected at every step that he betrayed himself and that it turned out that he was gay with irrefutable proofs, or better I expected him to confess it clearly. Although perhaps I would have preferred to sadistically catch him on the fact, as in a yellow. I cannot really blame him for his feeling himself cornered and with his back to the wall or for his continuous questioning the sincerity of my love, because there was also a dark element in it, and I knew it. It seemed to me also my legitimate compensation for all the things I endured from him.
With the time I accepted the situation, I understood that it was not me who was wrong, that I cannot change him, that he is like that with everyone and not only with me because he suffers deeply. Sometimes I would like to help him, but I don’t know how to do it and I tend to say that maybe because I was his only girl and he was my most important guy in spite of everything … maybe I’m the last person who can help him. And this is very sorry for me because nobody has ever been so close to me, and for him it’s substantially the same … Now I hope the future leads me to a normal story, with a guy who wants to kiss his girlfriend, to cuddle her, to stay well together with her, and all this keeping calm and living quietly. It seems impossible to me because I’m very cynical about it, partly because of traumas related to my parents. I’m afraid that if I met a good guy I wouldn’t be attracted to him. But okay, I’ll see what happens. I needed to tell how much I felt understood on this forum. Thanks again to the OP and to all the others. Greetings.
If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-a-girl-in-love-with-a-gay-guy
Hello Project, I feel a bit strange to write you some things but I don’t know what to do and I would like to have the ideas a little clearer. I am 40 years old, I am gay and I have always been gay but only in the sense that my sexual fantasies have always been about guys. In practice with the female universe I don’t have and never had any relationship not even of superficial significance. Nothing against women, for heaven’s sake, but they are not my thing. But my being gay never, and I repeat never, went beyond individual fantasy. I spent periods during adolescence when I repressed myself heavily, a little conditioned by the family, a bit by religion and a bit by complexes of various kinds, I basically removed the idea of having a true relationship (I don’t even tell sexual) with another guy. Already from the time of school it was all a flee and put the idea aside. Maybe it was also good.
My first falling in love, if I had declared it, would surely have put me in great difficulty. My last year of school I fell in love with a new guy who arrived in my class and getting rid of him cost me dear, now this guy is married and has two children and I’m happy to have kept my feelings for me.
The university was a succession of love affairs blossomed and then finished before beginning. My faculty was predominantly attended by guys and for me that period could, in theory, be wonderful, but it was not. Of course there were gay guys but it was impossible to find them, when I thought I understood that a guy was gay, the obvious proof of the contrary came to me. In practice I focused on the study, I graduated very well and I immediately found work, among other things a job that I like, well paid even if very demanding. My work environment is predominantly made of guys, they are all young engineers, mostly under 30, I belong to the seniors.
My colleagues at work only talk about work, here professionalism is mandatory and letting yourself go to personal speeches is considered a dangerous weakness for the career. When we do our business dinners it’s a real liturgy, there are the great bosses and my colleagues are all present with a wives or a girls in a long dress. So here what is worthy of consideration is just the image and to make a career you have to be formal and that’s it, there is no room for friendship at any level but only for the competition. Among other things, my colleagues, even those who are objectively handsome, seem to me well programmed puppets, among other things with a critical spirit only at the technical level and aimed only at the career and otherwise stereotyped up to the incredible. So let’s say that for me the working environment is completely neutral, and now I come to the central question.
This year I was, like every year, at the beach with my parents. If I told my colleagues something like that I would disqualify because it’s just a piece of beach, nothing extraordinary. My parents have a little house near the sea, you just leave the house and in practice you’re on the beach. There are few people on weekdays but on Sundays there are groups with cars and there are a lot of people. One Sunday I stood there under the umbrella reading some papers looking for some clever ideas to spend at work, when a group of young people, 20/21 years, arrives, they take off their shirts and start playing volleyball a few meters from me, so far there is little to say, it often happens.
One of these guys immediately strikes me: tall, blond, smiling, I remain to observe him because he exerts a powerful attraction on me. I tell myself: what a beautiful guy! Lucky him! Apart from my 40 years, I don’t have and I have never had anything to be considered a beautiful guy or even an average one. I could not stare at that guy for too long because I didn’t want him to notice it, but he enchanted me, even the voice seemed beautiful to me. I went back to reading my papers but my ear was fixed on the voices of those guys. At one point I got a ball in the head that made my book fly.
That guy told me, some days after, that throw of the ball was not accidental. He approaches, apologizes by friendly as if we had known each other forever, and takes the ball. The match ends, his friends go to take a bath, he doesn’t go, as he doesn’t have an umbrella and asks if he can put himself under mine, I say “Sure!” He smiles at me, then asks me what I’m reading, in short at the end of that Sunday we exchanged the cell phones and the msn contacts. He was a guy so radically different from my colleagues that he left his mark, apart from the fact that he was very young and didn’t feel conditioned at all for this. I knew I would see him at most another time on the following Sunday, then I would have resumed work and it would all end there. I come back home at night, add his contact on msn, he’s online and we talk for three hours. In practice for the first time in my life I talk to someone who listens to me for non-professional reasons. The conversation is serious, not intrusive, it also intrigues me from this point of view.
He’s terribly direct, he says what it thinks even brutally and doesn’t forgive me any banality. I’m amazed at his intelligence and his ability to go all the way. He takes no more than a week to tell me that he’s gay, but he doesn’t make me the usual speech, like: “Now if you want, I can disappear from your life!”, no! Instead, he takes it for granted that I’m gay and tells me: “But I see that you threw it all on study and career”. No need to tell him that I was gay, he had understood it perfectly and also several other things. We chatted for hours and hours all week, he didn’t come to the sea the following Sunday but he had told me it before.
Seeing the group of his friends without him made me feel a terrible melancholy and I also told him and, as usual, he was not surprised, he just replied: “Well, I had expected it, but if you want we can meet tomorrow afternoon.” I told him that I leave work at 5.15 pm and then I go to a big supermarket outside the city to do some shopping. We went to the supermarket together. It was a beautiful afternoon, I was falling in love with that guy and he was not pulling back. The next week we went shopping again, but this time in the car he took my hand and for me it was something upsetting. He held my hand tight to make me feel that he was there and that he wanted to be there. Project, that’s how I started going into crisis.
I took him home without saying a word. Before getting out of the car he asked me: “Are you angry?” I replied: “No, but I’m worried!” And he: “Well that’s natural!” Then he pinched my cheek and went down. I was happy but a bit dazed, I would have never expected something like that.
In the following days he tells me about his impossible love stories and about the tremendous frustrations he had to endure and wants me to tell him about my impossible stories, then, as if it were obvious (maybe it was) he tells me he had masturbated thinking of me and he wants to know my reactions about this fact. I tell him I’m a little surprised, because I think he certainly has a lot of better fantasies to think about, but he asks me in a very direct way: “And you, did you masturbate thinking of me?” I try t digress but he says seemingly angry: “Answer me!” I tell him to yes, and he tells me he cannot stand my hypocritical attitudes. I feel a little uncomfortable but he doesn’t give me respite and tells me: “Do not pose as a victim! If you like it you like it!” I begin to be afraid that the relationship with this guy can be something that goes out of control. I tell him that he needs something else and that I don’t want to bind anyone, he gets angry, he tells me that I’m just a hypocrite and that he has thought about age, he’s not in love with me but he loves me, but for him I’m also an important person on a sexual level. I try to run away, I start to be really afraid of not understanding where the story is going to end.
In the following days we meet several times, I tell him a thousand times that I’m perplexed, that I’m too old but little by little we also create a minimum of physical contact, which if on one side sends me into ecstasy, for the other upsets me. He told me it cannot end this way and wants to be with me and I think it’s true. He told me and repeated that he had never been with anyone and wanted to know if it was the same for me, he concluded that there were no risks of any kind and that then in practice even a behavior at zero risk it would be enough for him. He tells me that when he is near me he feels very strong physical attraction.
Now we are at this point. What have I to do, Project? I cannot deny that I’m totally in love but the complications are many, he is very young, I don’t say it because I’m afraid that one day or the other he can go away, but because I don’t want to affect his life. I love him deeply because he is as I wanted to be and I have never been.
Project, I’m afraid of embarking on a business too big for me, which I think I cannot handle. If he were one of my peers, maybe in a slightly disengaged story I would have felt more at ease, but so, with a 20-year-old guy who is terribly smarter than I was at his age, I feel displaced. And if in two or three months I don’t feel like it? I cannot leave him half way. I really, now at least, I don’t feel the age difference too much as an obstacle, we have both reflected, then there is that speech of “I’m not in love with you but I love you” which means that I’m not really what he is looking for. Then that phrase he tried to dilute it, to devalue it, but he told me that he is not in love with me, but deep down I too don’t feel in love with him overwhelmingly and the fact is that I love him above all.
That I can be infatuated with a handsome guy 20 years old is already quite strange, but perhaps it is something that can be understood, but what can he find in someone like me? He can find as many guys as he wants a hundred times better than me, when he tried he got only refusals, but in the future he will know many guys. I wonder what he wants from me, that is exactly from me, because it seems to me that he cares a lot. Among other things, he has a dignity in his abrupt manner that so many of my colleagues would not even be able to conceive, they would call it naivety, because in our environment guys don’t even know what dignity is. But how does a 40-year-old take a crush like that for a 20-year-old guy? I feel really split in two but I know that I will have to decide. Project, but if I give in to him and also to myself, is not that I’m really doing something bad? I don’t say this on a moralistic level, but I have many doubts.
Alyosha answers: But what a very simple question! … As if you could do anything else. He told you that you were an hypocrite, but he used the wrong adjective, he would have had to say incoherent, because it’s clear that your reasoning goes in one direction and your whole body and your spirit in the other and the more your spirit comes close to him the more your reasoning becomes evanescent. I could also waste time giving you a thousand good reasons why you should say yes, but I’m intimately persuaded that while you wonder whether it is right or not, the main decision has already been made. A good old friend of mine said that the owl of Minerva begins its flight on the twilight, meant that the reflection and awareness of the movements that happen comes only at the end, when in fact those movements have concluded their work in the underground and the things that incubated in his womb are about to sprout. In short, the blooming, although it is the beginning of something completely new, is only seen at the end. See, you’ve already answered a thousand times. You answered yes when you stared intensely at him without literally being able to take your eyes off him, you said yes when he asked you to get under your umbrella, yes when he asked if he could give you his number, yes when his hand has begun to tighten yours and you will continue to say yes all the other times, for the simple reason that there is not even an alternative for you. So that’s why it’s worth turning the question to the contrary … Why not? So enjoy the moment, it couldn’t happen anything better. He has already colored your gray life full of mannequins with starched collars.
Nicomaco answers: I don’t think I’m the most suitable to give advice or make profound evaluations, because, despite having an age similar to yours, I have always lived among peers and I fell in love (when I fell in love) with peers or almost. .. (they are things that happen). Let me be clear: I’m not at all opposed to relationships of love between people so distant in age. Beautiful stories can be read in the Project. It seems to me, however, that some greater difficulties such relationships can create at the level of social acceptance (even in this forum, sometimes they have been mentioned). But I believe that the only way to overcome these difficulties depends on the awareness, the serenity and the determination with which a relationship of this kind is lived and the difficulties are faced together. And here is an element that struck me in your story. It seems to me that there is not much symmetry between feelings, emotions, desires and projects between you. On the other hand, symmetry seems essential to building a relationship of love. You are faced with an unexpected and disturbing situation, also because your life is very “structured”. You’re not in love with him, but you say you still loves him. He seems a lot smarter, less problematic, he told you that he is not in love with you, but that he loves you and that he is attracted physically. I can easily believe it because at 20 (if I think of my life) the “physical” (and hormonal) element has a considerable weight (as it should be). You wonder how he feels attracted to you but I would say that the question is a bit naive. There is no model of physical beauty that has in itself the magnet of attraction. Personally in the past I was struck (even from the point of view, so to say, “erotic”) by guys who you could consider nice, clever, whatever you want, but who weren’t beautiful according to widespread models. My impression is that if you really care about that guy, you and he still have to work on it for a while. And then I think a lot depends on what you want to do with this relationship. It may be that the situation become rebalanced and allows you to build a deep love relationship. But I think it takes time and you need a lot of patience. Or it may be that the balance could not achieved and then I would say that maybe you should be making a decision for him too.
pavloss answers: I will be short. If you, in the grip of your doubts and in order to return to your tasteless and odorless world, will say to that guy: “no, go away!”, You will spend the rest of your days repenting. When love knocks on our door, it can also be that we are not ready. But if we wait to be ready before it knocks, it will never knock.
ignis answers: Given that he is “terribly smart”, I think he would not have exposed himself if he hadn’t well evaluated all the situation. To encourage him to look for someone else seems to me the worst conclusion.
Yin-Yang replies: Hello! I read your post several times to understand all the mechanisms that haunt you, first of all the fear of falling and hurting you badly when the story will come to an end. Don’t forget, however, that it may even go differently and that the story could last longer than you hope or fear. At 40 you have a more mature vision of life but certainly more pessimistic because being gay at that age and not having a steady partner is equivalent to being alone forever … However you were lucky and you met someone who saw inside you better than you’ve ever done before. I don’t have much to say about it but my motto has always been “carpe diem” for this I dedicate to you this poem by Pablo Neruda:
He who becomes the slave of habit,
who follows the same routes every day,
who never changes pace,
who does not risk and change the color of his clothes,
who does not speak and does not experience,
He or she who shuns passion,
who prefers black on white,
dotting ones “it’s” rather than a bundle of emotions, the kind that make your eyes glimmer,
that turn a yawn into a smile,
that make the heart pound in the face of mistakes and feelings,
He or she who does not turn things topsy-turvy,
who is unhappy at work,
who does not risk certainty for uncertainty,
to thus follow a dream,
those who do not forego sound advice at least once in their lives,
He who does not travel, who does not read,
who does not listen to music,
who does not find grace in himself,
she who does not find grace in herself,
He who slowly destroys his own self-esteem,
who does not allow himself to be helped,
who spends days on end complaining about his own bad luck, about the rain that never stops,
He or she who abandon a project before starting it, who fail to ask questions on subjects he doesn’t know,
he or she who don’t reply when they are asked something they do know,
Let’s try and avoid death in small doses,
reminding oneself that being alive requires an effort far greater than the simple fact of breathing.
Only a burning patience will lead
to the attainment of a splendid happiness.”
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Hello Project, I read on your blog the story of Fredrik and David, I cannot deny that it is something that moved me and reminded me, even if a bit from a distance, certain atmospheres that I too lived. Frederik and David are undoubtedly two exceptional people and have managed to cope with the difficulties, but things have never happened to me that way even when I worked hard with all my strength.
I am 29 years old, I don’t feel very young and I didn’t even feel so in March, last year. I came out of an impossible story, I had fallen in love with a twenty-four heterosexual guy, everything went well until I told him the truth, we were close friends but when he heard it he answered me more or less as if I wanted to rape him and then he disappeared.
With the tattered spirit I started to surf the chats. I say immediately that I have never looked for people too much older than me, in fact, I think that after 24/25 years the beautiful of a guy begins to fade, for me the ideal are the guys about 22/23 years. In the chats I always look for guys of that age.
So, I’m going to chat and I’m looking for … but things don’t excite me. At some point I get an email from a 40-year-old man (40 just turned), I don’t answer, he sends me a second email very relaxed, that is something quite enjoyable … I answer with a little comradely as it’s usual on the net but without affectation … so the story started.
At first I was very hesitant, if I had been ten years younger, I would not have had any qualms but he seemed too old for me … at the end of April I met him in person and he made me a certain effect, a handsome man who did not show at all his 40 years. There was complicity, I was fine with him even because we rarely were able to see each other, no more than once every 15 days, because he lives 250 km away from me, the second time I went to him we made love and it was nice, different from how I imagined it but beautiful, and a little I began to really fall in love.
At the end of June he proposes me to go on vacation with him for 15 days in the first half of August. I tell him yes right away but I tell him that I would prefer to stay in the room alone, this without any prejudice about the fact that I could make love with him, what indeed seemed obvious to me, as well as desirable, he tells me that there isn’t any problem, then I ask how we would do for the costs, because I work and I’m economically independent, and here began the first note out of tune: he tells me that he will think of everything, in fact he thinks that I should be grateful for this, but I tell him that I don’t like it and that we must be on a par, he makes a scene but then accepts, but says it in a way that I don’t like at all, I point it out, he responds seriously and reassures me … I’m calm … and I start the countdown.
For all of July we didn’t see each other because he was not in Italy. He sends me an email and tells me that we’ll take the plane from Maplensa for Canada on August 2nd. I get ready … I cannot wait for it to arrive on August 2nd. August 2nd arrives, he comes to get me, we go to the airport. It seems like a fairytale. Super comfortable travel. We arrive in Toronto … fabulous places. We start a tour of Canada of 15 days, every evening in a different place. The first night I find myself with him in a double room … I ask him why, he replies that single bed rooms were not available, I don’t argue, we make love at night. Beautiful, undoubtedly. In the morning we get ready, he calls the taxi, we go down, I ask him to settle the bill to 50% as agreed, he only answers that the accounts we would have all done at the end.
Great day, Canada is one of the most beautiful places I’ve ever seen. In the evening at the hotel we end up again in a double room, I ask him why, he tells me again that there were no single bed rooms … I go down to the reception desk and ask: there were more than 20 single bed rooms available! I feel angry, I go back to my room and I tell him, he answers me with a half fake smirk as if he were in a porn movie. I look at him and say to him: “No! I’m not your toy!” He raises his voice, he reproaches me stressing that it was he The one who paid the bill and the plane ticket and he even tells me: “You can also repay it in nature!” A joke so stupid made me just explode and I jumped on him and beat him with all the strength I had. I took my bags and left in a single room.
He called me on the phone and started begging me and apologizing. I stupidly returned to him. He had a black eye and cried like a cut vine, he begged, I felt sorry, he seemed inconsolable … in short, I let myself go to make love with him another time … I was making love with a forty year old that I didn’t want anymore but that had made me feel sorry! At what point I had arrived! …
During the night I thought of every possibility: to leave him alone there and go back to Italy, but then he would have felt betrayed and his reactions were unpredictable; or to finish the trip with him, then speak clearly and close the relationship … in short, there was only one hypothesis that I didn’t even take into consideration, that is to stay in contact with him. I didn’t leave him there, the next day we were in separate rooms and we didn’t make love anymore. I saw him humiliated, I felt sorry, but if I had appeared even a minimum condescending, things would have started again as before.
I go to the heart of the matter. Since we came back to Italy I didn’t want to see him again, he texted me and I changed the card, I had to change e-mail, in a sense I was also sorry, in fact he did nothing terrible against me, but we would never get along, the main fact is that we didn’t really love each other, we were two desperate people trying to solve each one his own problems… but this way a couple relationship makes no sense. He wrote me at least 10 letters with traditional mail. He sent me the last one to wish me merry Christmas, you can read it below: “Hello, all right, I’ll leave you alone, I did a lot of nonsense, but I think in the end I really would succeed to love you. Good luck!”. This mail has put on me a great sadness. I have not heard him for more than 30 days now. The story is over this way.
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