GAYS AND AVAILABLE GUYS WITH LATENT HOMOSEXUALITY

It often happens that a gay guy creates a strong emotional relationship, sometimes with sexual implications, with guys who present themselves as straight, but don’t have the typical behavior of heterosexuals, i.e. with guys who demonstrate a certain sexual disposition towards gays; I refer to the hetero-curious guys, bisexuals, latent gays and repressed gays.

The order of these four categories is not accidental: the hetero-curious guys, who are very numerous, are properly hetero, but because of strong frustrations in their straight sexuality, they go in search of exclusively sexual adventures in the gay field; the bisexuals, much less numerous than gays, have a true gay sexuality and a true gay affectivity, well integrated, but also present a true hetero sexuality and a true hetero affectivity, bisexuality can present the two components, hetero and gay, in all the possible proportions; latent gays, who are very less numerous even than bisexuals, consider themselves exclusively hetero and behave in all respects as 100% hetero guys, even in masturbation, which is always hetero oriented, their homosexual tendencies are manifested in behaviors of considerable disinhibition with other guys, and also with other gay guys, the freedom of behavior reaches the point that a latent gay, considering himself 100% hetero, doesn’t feel any discomfort in getting involved in openly sexual games with gay friends, up to be masturbated by them, and this happens because these behaviors are not seen by latent gays as gay behavior but as sexual camaraderie; the gays repressed are instead fully gay on a conscious level, with a masturbation exclusively in gay key, who have adapted to live also relationships with girls, including sex, because pressed by families and the social environment, these guys are essentially forced to play the part of the hetero.

When for a guy sexuality is split from affectivity or when sexual orientation is not univocal, signs of discomfort may appear. We must bear in mind that the union of affectivity and sexuality in a relationship in which there is emotional and sexual reciprocity between two guys leads to psycho-sexual well-being and satisfaction in sexuality. When there is no real reciprocity in a couple relationship, there is the typical sense of frustration that gay guys who fall in love with straight guys know very well. In that case the discomfort comes from an objective “couple impossibility “. When the complementarity of affectivity and sexuality is lacking in one of the two partners, the discomfort is not originally interpersonal but is created in the first instance inside the subject, a clearly unresolved subject.

There are guys who, because of the heavy influences suffered through education, which has conveyed to them profound sexual taboos, despite experiencing homosexual drives, continue to live a straight sexual life. If for these guys, homosexuality remains under the limit of conscious thought, in these cases we speak of “latent homosexuality”.

Let us dwell now in particular on guys with latent homosexuality; they generally have characteristic traits:

1) They have a frenzied hetero sexual life, they have many girls and they change them often, and this increases the fame of these guys as heterosexuals, but they have never had a steady girl for long periods (years), what is typical of the heterosexuals. In other words, they live a frenetic sexuality with the girls but without constructing truly meaningful emotional relationships. Their affectivity is addressed elsewhere. Heterosexual sexuality experienced by guys with latent homosexuality is often unsatisfactory due to erectile impotence or difficulty in achieving orgasm. It should be emphasized that guys with latent homosexuality masturbate thinking about girls, which confirms them in their presumption of heterosexuality. These guys don’t have usually, not even partially, gay masturbation fantasies, their homosexuality is totally latent. That is, it is not lived on a conscious level.

2) They have an emotional life focused on a very small number of friends, all or almost male, and often have only one long-standing friend who is their real point of reference on an emotional level. This decisive friendship has such a weight that the same sexual choices of the guy with latent homosexuality, despite being in a hetero direction, are closely linked to the dominant friendship in the sense that the guy tends to choose the girl in the group frequented by the best friend, in this way on the occasions in which he meets the girl in public he doesn’t lose contact with his friend anyway. It should be emphasized that guys who are latent homosexuals often choose girls who are very friendly to their special friend. These guys sometimes fall in love with the girlfriends or the ex-girlfriends of their special friend.

3) The friendship between a guy with latent homosexuality and his special “hetero” friend often goes far beyond the boundaries of a common friendship between two straight guys. It is an emotional or even a loving friendship whose limits are dictated essentially by the hetero guy and are easily accepted by the guy with latent homosexuality. If the limits are narrow, the relationship, even seen from the outside, has no sexual meaning, that is, homosexuality remains totally latent.

4) A friendship between a guy with latent homosexuality and his special “gay” friend instead presents a completely different dynamic and this is what I intend to deal with later.

Let’s consider now two typical non-infrequent situations.

Case A
Two friends (whose friendship dated 30 years ago) both had heterosexual intercourses, both had been considered heterosexual for years and had always lived forms of emotional complicity only in a heterosexual key. Let’s say that one of them, let’s call him Mark, arrives at the awareness of his homosexuality through the most natural way, that is, falling in love with his friend, let’s call him Andrew, who continues to show only a straight sexuality (latent homosexuality). In this case, the old relationship of friendship, on the side of the gay guy, acquires a new value and is experienced as a relationship of love and all the moments of intimacy that can occur between two straight friends, like the nudity in the showers of the gym, or sleeping in the same bed, will have for Mark a sexual value that will not have for Andrew. The dimension of intimacy can still increase at least within certain limits because Andrew’s emotional attachment to Mark will lead Andrew to accept Mark’s particularly free behavior without too many difficulties, and this is a sign of the explicit though unconscious sexual interest od Andrew towards Mark. In real situations of this type it is possible to come to true sexual games in which Andrew will accept “in the form of a game” even Mark’s openly sexual behaviors. Andrew and Mark can take a shower together even going into erection and laughing at this fact, can cuddle themselves for hours on the couch or even in bed without openly sexual gestures, can live substantially the life of a gay couple with a limitation: sexuality, that must remain latent.

Case B
Two young guys (18/20 years old), friends from childhood, one (Mark) comes to recognize himself gay, while the other (Andrew) remains in a state of latent homosexuality. Mark falls in love with Andrew, the mutual disinhibition is stronger at the level of gestures than at the level of words. Mark and Andrew never talk about sex explicitly. Mark perceives Andrew’s resistance to admit that the relationship that has established can have some homosexual meanings, on the other hand Andrew shows himself always available towards Mark, seeks him, sends him text messages, spends evenings with him in chat, tells him affectionate phrases that are formally in the limit of a tender friendship but that that Mark tends to interpret in another key. It happens in a completely unexpected way that Andrew lets himself go to a drift of situation increasingly gay, up to even accepting sexual contacts (intimate caresses) without any embarrassment, but without any attempt at reciprocity. Sexual intimacy can even become habitual and in these terms doesn’t create particular problems for Andrew who accepts it as something now normal (sexualized friendship). Andrea falls in love with girls who are Mark’s friends, tries to create a group in which Mark is always involved and combines without apparent contradiction a straight couple sexuality with the sexual friendship towards Mark. Andrew’s heterosexual sexuality is an assumption of principle and Andrew, while living daily sexual contacts with Mark, masturbates only thinking about girls.

In the case A there is no homosexual behavior of Andrew, in the case B Andrew is involved in real sexual activities with Mark but framed in the dimension of sexualized friendship and not of homosexuality. In both cases the guy conscious of his homosexuality (Mark) finds himself in situations of deep affective contact with his friend and of partial sexual contact. What pushes Mark (a gay guy) to continue his relationship with Andrew (a guy with latent homosexuality)? The possible answers are many:

1) Marco waits for Andrew to take autonomously an awareness of the situation, which in Mark’s eyes is unequivocal.
2) Marco hopes to be able to take, in small steps, Andrew towards an explicitly gay sexuality.
3) Mark is in love with Andrew and is willing to sacrifice his sexuality in order to remain close to Andrew whose emotional warmth he cannot do without. In this regard, experience teaches some things which it is always good to take into account :

a) Latent homosexuality is generally not a stage that is a prelude to conscious homosexuality. Latent homosexuality can last and often lasts a lifetime. The exit from the latency is linked in most cases to absolutely new and unexpected factors that pose a guy quickly in front of reality, it is usually a meeting with people not previously known or unexpected episodes with a homosexual background that begin to be the object of masturbatory fantasies. This is often the first spark that leads to the exit from latent homosexuality. Generally the gay guy who falls in love with a guy in a state of latent homosexuality is extremely cautious for fear of losing him and this makes it more unlikely that the other guy can get out of latency.

b) Gay guys who fall in love with guys with latent homosexuality often say they are totally satisfied with the relationship they live but, going deeper, they realize that frustrations are many in the first place because a gay guy, in this situation, is forced to curb his own sexuality and then because there is no possibility of addressing the discourse explicitly. A guy with latent homosexuality reasons in all respects as a straight guy, in other words his homosexuality is unknown even to himself and manifests itself only in the amorous friendship that he interprets exclusively as a simple and deep friendship. The frustrations of gay guys involved in relationships of this kind last for years, they are forced to sublimate sexuality and to make a constant effort of self-control.

c) Within a couple consisting of a gay guy and a guy with latent homosexuality, precisely because it is impossible to get to an explicit dialogue on the subject of sexuality, the possibilities of misunderstanding and false interpretations are enormous. Basically the two guys decode the sexual gestures and behaviors in a completely different way, but the situation is much more complicated than that which is created between a gay and a heterosexual because the guy with latent homosexuality shows a very wide emotional availability and somehow even a certain sexual availability that confuses the gay guy. These relationships, precisely because of the availability of the guy with latent homosexuality, are initially very inviting and rewarding for a gay guy who expects his friend to show a clearly gay sexuality in short terms, however very rarely the expectations of the gay guy have the evolution that the gay guy wants. For the above it is good to take into account the time factor, considering that many gay guys have waited for many years and needlessly for their friend to came out of latent homosexuality.

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-gays-and-available-guys-with-latent-homosexuality

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LATENT HOMOSEXUALITY AND MARRIAGE

This paragraph is the re-elaboration of a response to the message that appeared on the Gay Project guestbook and you can read here below.

“Hi, I would like to understand more about latent homosexuality and how it can be revealed. My husband, 43, would have recently discovered his bisexuality but the constant mutability and uncertainty of his cultural and professional choices, his attachment to me (also sexual, for years, and passionate) the involuntary and occasional aesthetic interest for other women, the coincidence, moreover, of his coming out in concomitance with the obvious need to take on more mature commitments compared to a past in which only I took charge of the common life project, always involving him, his chasing me when I walked away, make me feel a lot puzzled. I would painfully respect his choice, if I could believe that it is unavoidable but I suspect a semiconscious pretext. Our environment has always been free and open, we have always frequented gay friends, our dialogue was profound and he had no reason to hide for almost twenty years. I would be very grateful for an opinion.”

I will try to answer on the basis of the experience gained in Gay Project, using an authentic documentation, consisting of pieces of e-mail that I have been authorized to publish. Let’s start with a premise: with the expression “latent homosexuality” we mean a homosexuality of which there is no awareness. It is not a matter of consciously repressed homosexuality but of a reality that operates below the levels of consciousness and manifests itself through a series of phenomena that are interpreted by those who observe them in themselves on the basis of categories totally alien to homosexuality.

Let’s move on to the examination of the first e-mail I received from a 43-year-old whom we will call Marco.

“Hello Project, I would like to ask you an opinion on some issues that gave me a lot of problems. I must make a necessary premise, I am a married man and I have a daughter almost 19 years old, I have always been heterosexual, the girls have always looked for me and I liked them very much, unfortunately sometimes I’m really stressed and maybe there is a bit of performance anxiety, so sometimes I live sexuality in a way not quite serene, but with my wife I’m fine, she cares about me very much, with her I feel at ease and then it is not something essentially sexual we really love each other. Since I started being with her I don’t feel anymore the need to masturbate because I have sex with her quite often, on the other hand masturbation has never been a fixed idea for me, I was able to do without it even before.

When I started my story with my wife I would never have believed I could live sexuality with her, that is, the thrust I felt towards her was not that, then things came slowly by themselves, I had a little fear that vanished over time and now things are going well.

As for friends, I also have gay friends and I have no preclusion of principle against them. I still do sports, not competitive, I have the opportunity to see my teammates naked a lot of times but I’m completely indifferent, I never thought I could have sex with a guy. I have a friend with whom I feel great, a straight friend, a teammate, we often talk and the dialogue between us is very nice, he tells me about his emotions and I talk to him about everything, including sexual problems, it happens that we often go out in four, I, he and our wives, I often talk to this friend but for me his presence has not and has never had any other meaning, he is a friend and that’s it. I told you at the beginning that sometimes I feel a bit tired and I think that this compromises a bit my relationship with my wife, sometimes when I’m with her I remember the problems of work and I don’t like this, because this makes me loose the best moments, but it will pass, I’m sure of it.”

Let’s move on to the analysis of the contents of this passage which is the beginning of the first e-mail I received from Mark.

Heterosexual phenomenology (weakness of hetero sexuality)

Mark has or may sometimes have problems with erection when he has sex with his wife, tends to get distracted during hetero sexual intercourse, he lives heterosexual sexuality as a response to his wife’s initiatives, he didn’t masturbate (or did not do it often) thinking of his girlfriend even when he hadn’t frequent intercourses with her, tends to spend more time with his friends or with a friend of his than with his wife. For him, heterosexual sexuality doesn’t have the value of a primary instinct but plays the role of a complement of an emotional relationship, that is, sexual interest is not the first push to create an affective contact, but, on the contrary, sexual availability derives from the primary emotional choice. Marco does not have in mind a physical type of girl who arouses immediate sexual interest in him, that is, he does not have a female sexual archetype. In adolescence he was always looked for by girls (he doesn’t say he was looking for them) with whom he had some form of sexual contact but didn’t take the initiative. Adolescent masturbation was not frequent.

Homosexual phenomenology (absence of gay sexuality)

Mark has never had sexual reactions related to the presence of another guy, he attends gyms, swimming pools or changing rooms and takes the shower together with others guys without any sexual response, he doesn’t feel any embarrassment in addressing topics that deal with homosexuality, he also has gay friends with whom he has a relationship very similar to what he has with his straight friends, he was never even remotely touched by the idea of being able to masturbate thinking of a boy.

We continue now with the text of Mark’s e-mail.

Elements of crisis of the hetero identity and acceptance of bisexuality

“Project, you will tell me, then where is the problem? And here I start not to understand well. I love my wife, I’ve shared everything with her, she’s a notable woman and did a lot for me, she even went against her family to marry me, because the family wanted her to marry another guy (whom her parents knew) but she imposed herself and we got married. I want to emphasize that it was not a choice of opportunism at all but a marriage of love, especially in the early days, I shared wonderful years with her, I needed nothing else, when we got married I was 23 and she was 21, the following year our daughter was born and I could not have been happier than so. I’ve been married for 20 years and for 19 of these 20 years I’ve had only my wife in mind, I’ve never cheated on my wife, such a thought never crossed my mind, then suddenly a situation presented itself that upset me.

We hosted in our house a nephew of my wife, a guy 22 years old, let’s call him Luke, a nice guy, I think my daughter fell in love with him, and so far there would be no problem. The fact is that one night when my wife was not there because she went to her mother, I did one of the rare erotic dreams (a wet dream) of my life and I dreamed of Luke, I dreamed that he wanted to be hugged by me, and we ended up to the intimate caresses and I have arrived to the orgasm. In the dream it was all very nice, but when I woke up and I remembered what I had dreamed of, the world collapsed on me, I felt dirty both because it was a homosexual dream and because Luke is 22, almost my daughter’s age. And then I was thinking of my wife, I was wondering if I should talk to her or not about such a thing and I felt really bad. Then I told myself that dreams don’t mean anything but this was not enough for me, because in the dream I had experienced violent sexual emotions that I had never felt before, as a kind of super sexuality.

In the morning I saw Luke, who called me uncle, I felt like a traitor to the trust of that guy, even a kind of pedophile, I felt very bad but I forced myself not to show anything of what I carried within. In the evening my wife returned and we made love, it was beautiful, I would say that I seemed to be back in the early days of our marriage, I felt comforted because between me and my wife nothing had changed and if it had changed had changed for the better. I felt the nightmare of being homosexual less looming. When Luke came back to his house I felt relieved, as if the danger was over. However, I didn’t say anything to my wife because I didn’t want to shake her and also because I thought it was a passing thing. For two months I returned to my usual life.

Then, during the summer, on vacation, I found myself with a guy slightly older than Luke and I realized that I was led to observe him, he seemed beautiful, smiling, with a smile that I never saw in a girl, I remembered his voice, his gestures, his big, beautiful hands, with perfect skin. This guy, whom I will call Silvio, became fond of me, he came to our house by the sea, my wife thought he was interested in our daughter but it was not like that. Silvio came to stay with me and I was fine with him, I looked for different ways to spend some time with him, for a while it was very pleasant but then I started to be afraid to push myself too far. There has never been anything between us and Silvio treated me like a father but for me things were not exactly like that. I didn’t think of him in sexual terms and this made me feel comfortable, I tried to put aside the idea of being in love with Silvio but in fact it was so, but I repeat, no sexual fantasy about him, never, I don’t know, maybe I was repressing myself, but Silvio made me feel good. Also this time I didn’t say anything to my wife and basically I had nothing to say to her, there had never been anything between me and him, not even in a dream. But with Silvio I was less afraid of being able to discover that I was bisexual, let’s say that I took it into account at least in the abstract. I don’t speak of being homosexual but bisexual because with my wife sexual intercourse were still going well or at least passably.

In the fall a new practitioner about 25 years old came to my studio. I started doing sexual thoughts on him and my terror has begun again. I ended up to ask to be transferred to another office, but then I needed to see him and I went back where he was but he never noticed anything, even with this guy there has never been anything
but he was the first guy on whom I made erotic fantasies, in one way I was scared, but for the other I said to myself: why not? After all, such a thing doesn’t destroy my marriage, these guys don’t even know anything about it, so why deprive me of something that basically doesn’t hurt anyone? I’m bisexual, ok, I take note of it. And in the end these things are all in my imagination because it doesn’t come to my mind that I could put in crisis in my marriage and the relationship with my daughter for a sexual fantasy.

Let’s say that this is the stage where I am now, my real fear is that of escalation, that these things, which didn’t exist before and that I have gradually accepted, can then evolve presenting me the bill and maybe pushing me in some adventure that could put me in great difficulty. Until here I feel like accepting what is happening to me but I’m terrified that it does not stop here. My wife does not know anything about this and among other things I don’t know how to make her understand something like that.”

Beyond the example I have reported, situations occur in which the maintenance of the balance as it was before the emergence of homosexuality is objectively impossible. The evolution in those cases doesn’t go towards a bisexuality predominantly heterosexual, in which it is possible to contain homosexuality in the limit of episodic gay masturbation, but towards forms of exclusive homosexuality that undermine marriage and inevitably lead to separation.

In the case of Mark (the one cited above) the wife is completely unaware, but in cases where latent homosexuality evolves into exclusive homosexuality the role of the wife becomes critical because in these situations the husband intends marriage as a trap and the conjugal relationship keeps only negative aspects.

In general, husbands who come out of situations of latent homosexuality speak with their wives only if they feel the impossibility of continuing the marriage bond and in these cases, even if the husbands qualify themselves as bisexuals, it is to be believed that they are instead exclusive homosexuals.

It must be said that generally the wives consider the behavior of the husband as a result of a choice, but this doesn’t correspond to truth, it is instead the emergence of a latent sexuality, which often entails, for those who live these situations, states of deep discomfort.

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-latent-homosexuality-and-marriage

GAY GUYS WHO SEE STRAIGHT FRIENDS AS GAY LOVERS

Hello Project, I was pleased to talk with you in the chat, last night, it was an unexpected thing but very positive for me. In practice, the first time that I could talk freely about myself and my sexuality. I was struck by your answers, always very calm, that is, answers that tended to calm me down and make me notice the normality of so many things that seemed strange to me. I decided to send you this email to go even more specifically. I changed the references of the places and the names of the people, but the facts are exactly those that happened to me, so if you want you can post the email on the forum. I proceed by chronological order.

I’ve always been gay in an exclusive way, that is, I have wanted for years, since I was eleven or twelve, to be in sexual intimacy with males, with young peers or a little older. The fantasies of masturbation were always and exclusively gay, but I also had a girlfriend, I even had sex with this girl, we masturbated each other and about ten times we have also had complete intercourse, but I never felt heterosexual. I could even have sex with a girl, but that was not what I wanted. If I could have chosen whether to do it with a girl or a guy I wouldn’t have had the slightest doubt, but the girls wanted me and courted me ruthlessly, practically they offered “what they had to offer” on a silver plate, while of guys I couldn’t even see the shadow.

Even when I was with my girlfriend my masturbation was always and only with gay fantasies, I tried to force myself to use hetero fantasies but it was just a way to rape me, and then honestly I was not in love with my girlfriend, it bothered me when she would send me text messages or when she phoned me and started to chat and didn’t finish it anymore.

When I was with my girlfriend I was 18-19 and it started because I could not say no and, I must say, the thing, a little (but very little) she intrigued me. The first times we had sex, just masturbation, I studied on the internet what to do (I know it’s absurd but it is so), then when it came to having complete intercourse, my tool … refused to do its work, but in the end I succeeded, but, you know, it was a very poor thing. I think that for a straight guy who penetrates a girl, especially the first times, ejaculation arrives early and is powerful, at least that’s what I’ve always heard, for me it was not so, I didn’t have a spontaneous orgasm and the orgasm came only later when she was masturbating me. And I must say that many times I asked myself what I was doing there, anyway we had sex non too much rarely. And it happened about ten times. She was happy and just didn’t realize that the thing told me almost nothing.

Now I am 27 years old, I graduated and I found a job. Towards that girl I didn’t feel repulsion but I felt that having sex with her wasn’t something that belonged to me, and anyhow with another girl I would never have gone, not even at that time, with that girl the opportunity had been created and it has been however unpleasant to break the relationships, because there were resentments, but I was already very determined to do everything to never find myself in a similar situation again.

However, now it’s been over for eight years. And then, once the story is closed with that girl, I didn’t want to know any other girl just because I wanted a guy. I spent the night chatting in search of the right guy, but frankly there was no one who seemed to me the right guy. That was my nightlife, the day life was that of the classic straight guy or rather the classic guy without sexual interests at least apparently, dedicated only to study and friends.

And here I begin to get to the heart of the matter. At university I got to know a lot of guys. First we talk a bit about the university, then we start studying together, then we get to know each other better, there’s pizza together, the sport, which is fundamental for us, then we start going on holiday together, or at least start going out together on Sunday, in short, we become friends and, let’s say, the selection of friends is something automatic. It starts with a small group that becomes increasingly smaller and more tied. Let’s say that when I was twenty I had many friends, but weren’t real friends , while at 23 or 24 I had less friends but between us the relationships were much closer. Let’s say that around the age of 25 a group of 4 guys was formed, who by now seemed inseparable.

We used to have lunch one day at parents’ house of one of us and another day at the parents’ house of another. Our friendship was a public fact and accepted by our families. We had known each other for study purposes and we could have given us a hand over the university. One day it occurred that Laurence (obviously a changed name) told us that we could go to the gym together, in one amateur group of volleyball, it was a sport that all four of us liked and we enrolled in the local volleyball association. Here I have to open a parenthesis. The four of us were fine together, none of us four had a girlfriend at the moment, but all four of us (including myself) had had a girlfriend, but none of us spoke of girls or disco.

It was then that I began to wonder what was common among us that made us feel so good together and I began to get the idea that it was really the fact that we didn’t talk about girls and that we were very often among us. But among us the atmosphere was very loose, we were not four gruff types but four funny guys who have fun acting like crazy and saying bullshit.

With others, or if others there were, we never did so, but between us yes. From time to time we ended up (always between us) talking about sexually, but not about girls but only about masturbation.

We begin to attend the gym, for me a real shock, I had never been in a gym and seeing all those naked guys walking around so casually, as if it were the most normal thing in the world, led my heart to 120 pulses per minute, and then there were my three friends and I could see them naked, even if for obvious reasons I had to be careful not to check them too much. There were also jokes about our attributes, but jokes just to laugh.

With the passage of time, going to training had become a habitual thing for me, or almost habitual, because sometimes new guys arrived that some were really beautiful and I had to force myself not to look at them. One day when a particularly handsome new guy came, I saw one of my friends watching him and I too was surprised by my friends while I was looking at him. And there began the jokes, but also this time, very simple things, without malice, a real game.

Now, my friend Mark (false name), who had turned to look at the beautiful guy, was also the one of the three that I liked best: tall, blond, with an intelligent smile. So I started putting together the mosaic tiles: he doesn’t talk about girls, he jokes about masturbation and not about girls, and he turns to look at a beautiful naked guy . . . what does it mean? There were enough arguments to reach the conclusion: Mark is gay! It seemed to me that having seen him peek at the beautiful guy in the locker room was equivalent to a full coming coming out. And that’s how I began to lose my head for Mark. I tried to put together everything I could know about him (I had never done it before) I explored his facebook, that of his friends, I did all the possible research but there wasn’t even the shadow of a girls.

The idea that he was gay became more and more a certainty and at the same time grew in me the idea to try something with him, to tell him that I had fallen in love with him and that he had become my fixed idea. Making a speech like that, however, was not easy, indeed it was practically impossible.

In a short holiday of us four friends in the mountains, Mark and I happened (not casually) in the same room, I was anxious at the higher level but I wasn’t able to start to put in practice my projects. One day that we had to go out for an excursion we woke up late and we had a shower together, with a lot of reciprocal touchings, I was going in bad erection but he told me that we had to prepare in a hurry and with a mischievous smile, added: “We’ll talk about it tonight!” That sentence hammered my brain all day. I was telling myself that I had seen right and that it was gay and that I could not go wrong, because I see him as a gay just looking at him.

Finally the excursion ends, in the evening we go to dinner and I cannot wait for the dinner to end to be able to go to the room with Mark, but another of my friends proposes the disco and Mark enthusiastically accepts. I was uncomfortable: he evidently didn’t even remember what had happened in the morning. We go to the disco, the other two friends start dancing like crazy but not in pairs, simply in a group, but Mark remains close to me, it is the usual Mark: smart, nice, maybe gay, on the other hand how can you think that a guy is straight if he goes to the disco and doesn’t even dance with a girl?

At a certain point he looks at me in the eyes and tells me: “What is it?” Something wrong? “I say no and he replies: “Do you want us to go back to the hotel?” Of course I tell him no, but he looks at me again and tells me: “I didn’t forget!” That sentence puts my brain in motion. After twenty minutes we were back at the hotel. We go up to the room, lock the door and he throws me on the bed and start to tickle me. We played like two kids: tickling, cushions, doing the fight, obviously all for fun, then I realize that he’s excited. I throw him on the bed and start touching him and he lets me do.

Now I don’t want to go into details as it is usual in red light movies but in short we arrive to masturbate each other and I don’t think at all that this created problems for him. I would have kissed him but I didn’t take the initiative nor did he. Later we have been talking but not about sex, but about when we were children and how we spent our holidays. I was happy, it was one of the most exciting moments of my life, and yet, in the following days I realized that for him the sense of what we had done was very relative.

He never returned to the subject, but not because it had been removed, simply because it had been just a moment, and that moment had passed. We remained friends, even best friends, but two years have passed and that episode has never been repeated. Even now he doesn’t have a girlfriend nor I have a boyfriend. The courage to ask him if he was gay I didn’t have it at that time nor I would have it now, and on the other hand he doesn’t ask me questions.

Why is it so damn hard to speak clearly. If he were gay, would he try again? I think so, but he didn’t and nevertheless now I still feel attracted to him very strongly, he’s the sexiest guy I ever met, is my ideal boyfriend, but this is not enough to make it really my boyfriend. Many of my illusions are completely faded or are being fading over time, in short he is a good guy, I love him, but I don’t think he is gay, and to get to this conclusion it took me years. Today I believe and fear that our strange half-way relationship will go on and prevent us from living our lives as we would have liked.

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-gay-guys-who-see-straight-friends-as-gay-lovers

GAYS AND REPRESSED INSTINCTS

The following is a discussion coming from the Gay Project forum.

“Hello Project, I’ve been reading your site for a long time, it’s a serious matter, an absolute exception on the net, and it is comforting to know that there are such sites, for me it was really useful and I feel at ease there. I’m 23 years old, practically I’m not out with anyone but let’s say I’ve often been on the verge of doing things that would seem completely wrong to you. I read in the forum of guys who know how to control themselves, who can live waiting for a serious occasion, but I feel that I’m going to explode and I will not be able to do what they do for a long time.

It’s about three years that my life has completely changed, I can say that up to 20 years I was totally repressed, a thousand complexes to the limits of the absurd: I never went to the sea, never on the beach, never in swimsuit, absolutely never, I could not sleep with another person in the room, I could not stand the idea of physical proximity, I don’t say the contact but just to be 50 cm away, and this happens both with guys and girls, I always felt uncomfortable with people, as if they could be able to read me inside and understand my secret and above all I tried to repress myself in the most ruthless way, even not eating or drinking to make my body feel not well because this way, according to my opinion, things related to sex wouldn’t have come through my head.

All this more or less until three years ago, then I met a guy and I got a crush on him and I threw away all my taboos and I changed my attitude radically, not in public because I’m afraid of people’s reactions but I don’t repress myself anymore, I feel very strong sexual impulses and I don’t fight them anymore, on the contrary I try to cultivate them.

Before I knew that guy, there was pornography, I liked it but it seemed to me like a false thing and I wanted a real thing. I made a thousand films inside my mind to understand how it would be with a guy, but then there were only films in my imagination. I never said anything to that guy and I will not do it because I think he is straight, but I can see that he doesn’t care about me, but I feel attracted to him just like by a strong magnetic force. I knew everything about him by looking for information around, I even took pictures of him from a distance and he didn’t notice it. You can imagine what I do with his photos. The porn photos don’t excite me, but the photos of that guy fully dressed send me into orbit, apart from the physiological reactions, I live dreaming of being with him in every sense, I try to imagine (all fancy) how he would react if I put into practice what comes to my mind. Sometimes when I’m close to him I feel the irrepressible instinct to embrace him and not only, I think you understand what I mean.

Project, I cannot take it anymore, I know he’s probably straight, I know that I could ruin my reputation and that mine is a homophobic country, but staying close to this guy and stop myself it’s too difficult for me, I cannot handle it anymore. But basically why cannot I tell him that I fell in love with him? A smile would suffice me, it would be enough for me to understand that he doesn’t feel offended. But why do I have to repress myself like that? What if I told him? What would happen If I committed this madness? I asked him if he likes sports, you know, maybe if he had gone to the gym I would have gone too, so, almost casually, but no! He doesn’t go anywhere: study and church, or rather, study, church and girl, but about the girl he’s not enthusiastic, he talks about it as an obvious thing but I’ve seen other guys that, when they talk about their girl, their eyes shine, but he is not so, he seems almost neutral. But how does this guy live sex? Between the church and a girl whom he doesn’t love?

I tried to do some little experiments to see how he reacts but he doesn’t react, maybe he does not give a damn about it, but how does a guy like him drop the opportunities, I don’t say of who knows what, but to talk to me. With me he speaks, he answers me, but he never takes an initiative. But why does such a handsome guy choose to sacrifice his sexuality? And what for? I would do anything for him. Once I saw him with the girl, she scolded him, bossed him around and he let her do, and I felt an anger that I do not tell you. But good heavens! You could enjoy your life and instead nothing! You act like a codfish under a girl who has taken you for her servant cavalier and you don’t even notice that I am melting for you! Am I a fool, Project? But why did I fall in love with this codfish? He has a very sweet smile, but he’s a real codfish and I go on dreaming and throw away my life like that. I’ve been doing this for almost three years, and maybe I’d do well to tell him, so if he sends me to hell, at least, with him, I break my addiction because I cannot take it anymore.

A straight guy declares himself and things go how they must go, but I cannot do it. Well that’s enough, but what have I gained from not repressing me anymore? I understood that anyway nothing will change! I’m very nearly to jump on him and let things go their way. If I think that he could also answer me that he loves me my blood boils. I cannot go on like this! Bye Bye!”

Alyosha answers: I read in your post a beautiful transport that really involved me. First of all, I think it’s nice to allow yourself to live certain things, stimulating and somewhat overwhelming. I write it this way, of course the author of the post will not agree, because the post, when one reads it attentively, seems even too much rational. But maybe you’re following you beautiful codfish as you call him, for so long just because you know he’s straight. I go to explain.

For what I think, or better I see, starting from the things you write, this guy has helped you so much. But maybe you let him help you, maybe you were the one you needed to find, so to say, a “container” into which to pour those impulses, desires and falling in love that were born. The fact that he’s straight can certainly depend on the obvious randomness because there are more straight guys than gays in this world, but I think that’s what allowed you to start to loosen yourself, to let yourself go, at least at the beginning, knowing that a physical contact with him anyway could never have happened. Perhaps this basically relaxed you and put you in the right position to experience new things with serenity and sufficient spontaneity.

I wrote all my reasoning just to tell you that falling in love is a fantastic thing and certainly the driving force for any relationship. But the relationships, so say, unilateral are one thing, the couple life is another. Maybe it happens that the story seen from the outside, it appears just as you see it: he is repressed and she is omnivorous and despot. But it is you who see things like this. In relationships there is always a balance at the end and the balances are never perfect as you would expect, but they work.

In short, I wonder how much you feel ready to live a real relationship with all that this entails. Maybe in this path in stages you should try to take the next step that is then to know those like you, because with a straight guy and moreover engaged, I think there is nothing to do, neither in terms of relationship, nor in terms of escapade. On the rest then it’s up to you to choose how to live your things, and this has a lot to do with what one is and what he wants from life and I think that homosexuality has little to do with this.

On the initial problem that I read, instead, I want to speak only according to my experience and I answer “yes” to your implicit statement: behind this “waiting for a serious opportunity” as you say, there is a fear of being seriously involved. So, in this regard, I say what I think. It is not so much a matter of waiting for a serious story in my opinion. Stories cannot be born serious and expecting that they are serious from the beginning leads in fact to not living anything.

I think that there are not “wrong” things but rather “dangerous” things. And finally that we should rather have a serious way of doing things. I certainly cannot tell you how much all this enchains, forces the sexual drive and the objective desire of the desired person. I don’t even know what remains after, when that absolute transport, binding, deaf to whatever, is faded. What happens next when that passionate bond tries to transform into a couple’s life with his daily life, I certainly cannot tell you. And so I conclude like this, with things I don’t know yet.

Nicomaco answers: I read with interest this new post and the first answer of Alyosha, very shareable. The protagonist of this story has nothing to reproach himself for: he realized he had a crush, he tried to do some little experiments to check how his friend reacts and these have failed. Peace. We need to live with it. It’s not easy. But you have to do it (it happened even to me at least a couple of times). There is no symmetrical relationship and therefore it is necessary to desist. What I too would feel to discourage is to raise the roll and do nonsense (for example: declaring to be hopelessly in love with him), because this would be equivalent to making a jump in the dark without a parachute.

Is there nothing good from this experience? In my opinion, something good remains! And it is to have lived consciously the falling in love, even if unrequited, after a period of strong repression. And then it doesn’t seem to me that a straight guy declares himself always and in any case (and even less to already engaged girls). A straight friend of mine even told me that it was much more beautiful for him to be in love even if he didn’t show it, than declaring it, that it was more beautiful to love that be loved . . . it sounds strange, I know! That’s not all, but it’s already something! And then life is long!

Pavloss answers: Hello, first of all it’s good that you let yourself go writing about how you feel and how you live your affection and sex. It’s good because at least you’re out of a certain isolation that hurts too much. Secondly, I think that what you live is a kind of reaction to a long period of compression and denial. When you open a pressure cooker, after it has been boiling for a while, it could actually burst and that’s what’s happening to you. The strong risk is to project into a person all your desires and your expectations. No, this is not good, especially because you end up obeying your wishes rather than reading reality for what it is. Reality is NOT very much as we want it and maturity consists in knowing how to take note of it without suffering too much. I’m sure you can find a friend, a companion, maybe not under your house, but certainly more open than this guy you talk to, who, most likely, doesn’t care too much about you. It is true that the hetero life, in some respects, is much easier but this should not depress you. You must find your balance in which you love life and you love yourself, in which you can build a network of relationships that make you feel good. I think two opposites are to be avoided: closing yourself up until you get hurt (as happened to you), opening yourself up to the point of projecting unattainable expectations into others. Finding a good guy as a friend or as lover is not impossible but he is certainly not around the corner of the street and perhaps not even in your own city. Conquering what is worth requires some effort and it is difficult but it is normal and is part of life. Courage, therefore, and be proud of the fact that you live authentically, despite the many difficulties we all know, don’t get depressed and go on !! An important detail: you say you’ve been following him for three years … three? If in three years he has not realized practically anything it’s certain and sure that he is not interested in you from that point of view. I too have “lost” years behind beautiful, good, sweet people but with whom I have never combined anything. Don’t make this mistake. One thing is friendship, but you want more, it’s obvious. If you want more, then, don’t insist in a direction that only makes you feel bad. At best you would do well to tell him everything in order to get a clear answer from him and finally get away from him.

Nicomaco answers: Even the last posts seem to me very shareable and balanced. Of course, talking about it in a forum is not like talking about it in real life, what is much more complex. However, if I were in your shoes, I would be prudent to express certain feelings to a friend who most likely has other tastes. You can know only by yourself if this is the right thing and above all if your friend doesn’t have any prejudices about gay affectivity. I say this only to suggest you avoid other suffering, given that for the first time you have experienced a very beautiful moment of falling in love. Instead I would look at the positive aspect of the story. Falling in love means finally opening up to others and being a little more confident. And this should not be wasted, but should be cultivated in other directions.

pavese30 answers: Hello, to be out of the isolation created by you is already a lot, since in reality then you have to deal with the isolation created by the rest of the world that does not accept you much, even if today it’s fashionable to show at least a little bit of openness, I see anyway a growing intolerance in the facts. We must add also the lack of commitment of the youngest people towards the Gay Cause and towards the sexual freedom in general, many of them rely on the successes acquired by assuming that they are definitive. Regarding the guy, I would say that manifesting sympathy is one thing, to be gay inside is another. You yourself know the self-defense mechanisms, which can also become self-destruction mechanisms: until the spark is born, even if he is gay, he doesn’t open. I would say keep him as a friend and don’t expose yourself to gossip of the stupid people of the country, don’t try to get everything by risking everything with the first who made you lose your mind! If the opportunity comes, get it, don’t let it escape, meanwhile look at the rest of the world. Bye Bye!

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-gays-and-repressed-instincts

SEX IN GAY-HETERO RELATIONSHIPS

Many gay guys, before being fully aware of being gay or before totally accepting themselves as gays, have had heterosexual experiences, and sometimes have continued to have relationships with girls even after they became fully aware of being gay. Very often the awareness of one’s own homosexuality is acquired by reflecting on the fact that spontaneous sexuality of masturbation is oriented towards guys even if the couple sexuality is hetero. The mere fact that a guy has straight sex intercourses is therefore certainly not enough to qualify that guy as a heterosexual. I would add that when a guy, who will ultimately accept his exclusive homosexuality but is not yet fully aware of it, looks for a girl, due to an unconscious defense mechanism, tends to choose her not very motivated towards sexuality and devoid of sexual experiences, so that she cannot make comparisons between his sexual behavior and that of other guys.

Let’s get on the side of the girl, now. It is evident that in a sexual relationship with a guy, who behaves like a hetero but is not heterosexual, a girl who has a minimum of experience of heterosexual sexuality feels something uncertain, hesitant, feels a reluctance of the guy to her insistence more than a primary sexual desire on the part of the guy. Here is the point. A gay man can also, in certain very special situations, experience sexual interest and even excitement for a woman to the point of having satisfactory sexual intercourses with her, but that is not his primary choice, his sexual fantasies remain gay, his masturbation remains gay almost always 100% even during the sexual relationship.

For a gay, this reasoning, applied to sexual intercourse with a girl, is flawless: the guy is and remains gay, has more or less satisfactory heterosexual intercourses, the girl if she is not very interested in sex can also accept the things in these terms, but a discourse that is in many ways symmetrical to the one just done can also be applied to sexual relations between a straight guy and a gay guy. I mean that assuming that a guy who has sex with another guy is necessarily gay is just like assuming that a guy who has sex with a girl is necessarily straight, things that both don’t hold up. As a gay guy under certain circumstances can experience sexual interest in a girl, a heterosexual guy, under certain circumstances, can experience sexual interest in a guy. That hetero guy will remain heterosexual even if it will have sexual contact with a guy, his primary sexuality, his masturbation and his sexual fantasies will remain directed towards girls almost always 100% even in the period in which the sexual contacts are sometimes realized with another guy.

In the case just described of a heterosexual guy who has sexual intercourses with a gay guy, let’s put on the side of the gay guy, it is obvious that the gay guy will feel that the sexual interest that the hetero guy shows towards him is not symmetrical to his, because the sexuality of the straight guy has been structured over the years on other sexual fantasies that are now extrapolated to the gay field but are not originally gay. I’m saying that while it is quite peaceful that a gay guy can have sex with a girl, it is not as peaceful that a heterosexual guy can have sex with a guy, and it is almost assumed as granted that a guy who has sex with another guy is really gay.

But heterosexuals who have sex even with guys exist and are not very few. To gays they seem gay but they are not, their primary sexuality and their masturbation is and remains oriented towards girls. Exactly like a guy who has sex with a girl he can seem straight to that girl just because he has sex with her but it’s not at all said that he is.

Having premised this. I come to the central topic of the chapter. It sometimes happens that a gay guy falls in love with a friend declared to be straight and, slowly, by insistence, manages to induce him to have some sexual contact with him. This thing that appears to the gay guy an exalting moment, when it happens, shows all its weak sides. The gay feels something unusual, originally not gay, not corresponding to the sexual fantasies typical of a gay guy, that is to his own sexual fantasies. The first element that sounds out of tune for a gay is the disinterestedness of one partner for the other partner’s penis, or a weak interest, more manifested than felt, induced only by not wanting to appear disinterested and often perceived by the gay guy as unnatural and recited.

The hetero guy doesn’t usually masturbate the gay guy, but on the contrary likes being masturbated by him, the straight guy is available for oral sex but only if practiced on his penis while he is extremely reluctant to swap roles. But there is more, sexual intercourse focuses on what the gay guy has less masculine, in practice the gay realizes not to embody the primary sexual interest of his partner and to be for him only the “substitute of a girl”, however, he continues to consider his partner a strange gay rather than a straight guy.

I add that often, after contacts of this kind, gay guys try to insist on creating other occasions for meeting while hetero guys shows strong resistance and certainly don’t take initiatives. It follows that it would be appropriate to remember that as there are gays who, in particular situations, sometimes go also with the girls, remaining anyway gay in all respects, there are also hetero guys who, in particular situations, sometimes go also with the guys remaining straight in all respects.

When a gay guy is faced with a guy who is clearly heterosexual but available to have a sexual contact with him, I’m saying available, which doesn’t mean interested, that is, when a gay guy meets a guy who eventually accepts a sexual contact but doesn’t take initiatives, he think automatically of being in front of a gay guy who is becoming aware of his sexual orientation; he should instead understand that in all likelihood he is in front of a heterosexual guy available to have also gay sexual contacts, in very special circumstances, obviously remaining 100% hetero.

In situations like these, to build a serious relationship something misses, there is a lack of basic reciprocity because the primary sexual interests are different and the hypothesis that you can create a truly important emotional world that can turn into a true couple relationship is objectively baseless. For a gay guy, it’s often very difficult and painful to realize it, because he is forced to understand that a story that seemed to have reached its peak isn’t even a story and that fantasy led him to get away from reality.

Sexuality to be really satisfying must be authentically shared. The sexual balance of a gay couple is based on sexual affinities, that is on a set of sexual desires and fantasies common to the two partners. In general, gay guys are clearly aware of how sexual archetypes of straight guys hare different from theirs own and they perceive it simply talking with their straight friends. But when a gay guy glimpses in one of his friends clearly hetero some glimpse that suggests that this friend could also be available to a gay sexual contact, the gay guy’s mind goes haywire and the projections and increasing expectations dominate the field.

Then when some sexual contact is realized, the gay guy, who hadn’t wanted to take note of the heterosexuality of the other, finally awakens from his illusions and realizes that there is something that doesn’t work.

The tendency to project oneself far away by satisfying one’s own desires ends up legitimizing completely unrealistic expectations. Often, in gay-hetero relationships that also involve sexual contacts between the two guys, the gay guy tends not to see reality and literally stops thinking. The expression: “we had sex together therefor he cannot be straight, even if he always repeats it” is completely superimposable to similar phrases that girls fallen in love with gay guys use to claim that their boyfriend is straight. The mechanisms through which a gay-hetero relationship between two guys in born are completely analogous to those that lead a gay guy to stay with a girl. The story starts from friendship, often sexualized on one side only (the gay guy masturbates while thinking of his friend, but the straight guy continues to masturbate thinking about girls), then there are increasingly intense occasions for intimacy that to the gay guy appear as a clear sign that the other is gay while to the hetero guy appear only as forms of close friendship and nothing more.

It’s easy to get to para-sexual situations, as shared showers in sports environments, casual nudity without embarrassment and the like, to which the gay guy attributes much meaning and that for the hetero are completely insignificant things, and so sometimes it’s also possible to get to a sexual intercourse that is acceptable for a hetero just because he doesn’t see it as a gay conversion (and it is not in fact) but as a trivial thing to which no particular significance is attached, maybe as a form of generosity towards a friend who needs it.

To build a serious gay story it is not enough that the two guys are gay, that is just a necessary condition, certainly not sufficient, but it is a necessary condition, they must really be two gay guys and the fact that between two guys there have been sexual intercourses absolutely doesn’t allow to conclude that they are both really gay. Sexual orientation is not a question of behavior but of drives and desires. In the e-mails I receive and in the chats with the guys, it often emerges not only the idea that a guy is automatically considered gay only for the fact that he accepts an explicit sexual contact with another guy, but even that “if he accepts a sexual contact with me he is in love with me.” Behind this statement there is a tendency to read explicit sex as an “essential part” of a gay relationship and at the same time there is the underestimation of the typically affective dimension.

Whoever says “if he has sex with me is in love with me” takes for granted the identity between sex and love. If on one hand it is understandable that a gay guy in love with a friend tries to get to a sexual contact with him, it is necessary that the guy in love understands that his friend may not be in love with him, and may not even be gay even if he can end up accepting sexual contact with another guy.

Sexual costume is changing and behaviors that were unthinkable 40 years ago now begin to spread and many taboos collapse, worn down by the passage of time. Today the embarrassment in talking about masturbation practically doesn’t exist anymore and the taboo of nudity is largely reduced. From the straight guys the taboo related to sexual contacts with other guys is often exceeded, both at the level of gay games between straight guys and also at the level of sexual couple contacts that are undoubtedly much more similar to a real gay relationship than to simple sexual games. In other words, today for a straight guy the idea of being able to have a contact, even sexual, with another guy, even an explicitly gay guy, is no longer an insurmountable taboo.

I met via chat straight guys who loved a gay friend of theirs and ended up accepting sexual contact with their gay friend. It was often about sexual contacts deeply wanted and desired only on the side of the gay guy and accepted by the straight guy as a kind of gratification to give to his gay friend. In these relationships there is no real sexual reciprocity even at the minimum level. This fact allows the hetero guy to participate in a homosexual contact in some way safeguarding his hetero identity through altruistic motivations.

The essence of these discourses is that a straight guy may very well be involved in sexual contacts with another guy, but the straight guy remains anyway a straight guy, his sexuality doesn’t change because he participated sometimes to some gay sexual intercourse.

Basically a straight guy can accept a sexual contact with another guy for two reasons that are substantially different but that are not mutually exclusive and even sometimes integrate:

1) For play.
2) For emotional reasons.

But why does a straight guy tend to form a strong friendship with a boy more or less explicitly gay? The answers can be many:

1) Because he feels the affection of his gay friend and is gratified, he feels loved and desired and perceives the attention of the other.
2) Because he has nothing better to do or feels a sense of loneliness that is relieved by the presence of a gay friend.
3) Because the gay friend is insistent and courts wildly the straight guy.
4) Because, apart from sexual orientation, between the two guys there is a close affinity of views.
5) Because the friendship between the two guys goes back to early adolescence.
6) Because the gay guy is interested in listening and the straight guy needs to talk.

Too often gay guys tend to divide the world into gay and straight as if this division marks a clear birder line between the two groups and especially between the social behaviors of the two groups. In reality, if this border line exists objectively in terms of sexual orientation, even if not 100% in terms of sexual behavior, as we have seen, it certainly has no reason to exist in many other fields that don’t involve sexuality. It is precisely for this reason that gay-hetero friendships exist and are often very tight; even if they are not symmetrical these relationships can find deep motivations on both sides.

It should be borne in mind that the development of a gay relationship is never the outcome of a one-sided strategy, it is not a chess game and there is no winning strategy. To see a story of love as the story of a conquest means to read it as an unequal relationship in which there is a conqueror and there is a conquered and this is a typical legacy of a culture that is not only heterosexual but properly male chauvinist.

In the gay world, where two guys start on an equal footing, the relationship is built in two, I mean that if you are not really two to cooperate in building a serious emotional relationship, the relationship, admitted and not granted that it can be born, however, is born on very fragile bases. Many gay guys cannot conceive true friendships with a guy and they intend the friendship with a guy exclusively as a necessary step of a strategy of conquest that has as its target the realization of a sexual contact.

Starting from this point of view the emotional dimension is automatically subordinated to the realization of a sexual contact and the sexual intercourse is seen as a necessary condition for the construction of a serious emotional relationship. In this way the natural order of things is reversed, the construction of a serious emotional relationship is postponed and subordinated to sexuality. Obviously these attitudes heavily affect the relationships of gay-hetero friendship and tend to forcibly transform them into something that resembles a couple relationship.

The inability to accept friendship with another guy if not as a first step of the attempt to involve that guy from a sexual point of view, deprives many gay guys of male friendship, in the great majority of cases with straight guys but also with gay guys, and it must be kept in mind that this types of friendships is absolutely essential for the emotional balance of a gay guy.

In a gay-hetero relationship, the attempt to sexualize the relationship of friendship starts from the gay guy who tends to read the behavior of his partner as a path towards the awareness of being gay, that is, he tends to apply his interpretive canons to another guy. Here are some typical reasons:

1) He’s a latent gay, he’s still not aware of being gay but I’ll help him on his way and I’ll let him discover his true nature.
2) After all, he’s gay but he doesn’t want to accept it, a straight guy would never do so many of the things he does.
3) He’s at least bisexual because he has never approached a girl in a serious way and this means something.

It is evident that the attempt to sexualize the relationship presupposes the identification a friend at least as a potential gay. Otherwise the attempt would be a priori condemned to failure.

The point of view of the heterosexual guy who deliberately accepts a sexual contact with a gay friend of his can be roughly summarized as follows:

1) My friend is gay but he is a good guy and I love him. He is in love with me, I don’t feel seriously involved in this fact but don’t feel even rejected by it. If I can make love with a girls I’m not interested in, then I can make love also with him, I’m not interest in him sexually but I feel him very similar from many other points of view.
2) I do it for him, as far as I am concerned, I can only be involved on a physical level, but my sexuality is really another. I don’t feel less hetero for the fact that I can make a friend happy in a way that costs me nothing.
3) With my gay friend in the end there is clarity, he knows I’m straight, I do not think he can feel tied to me in a morbid way.

I report below with some minor changes a mail that was sent to me on June 21st 2009.

“Hello Project, I’m a straight guy 20 years old, I have a gay friend of mine (let’s call him Mark) and I’d like to tell you what happened between us. I state that I have never had doubts about my sexuality. For reasons that you will understand by reading the following I found your project and I read a lot of what you wrote and I saw my idea of being heterosexual even more strengthened. In short, I don’t have anything gay, this to avoid misunderstandings, sorry if I do this remark, I have nothing against gays but I’m not gay.

When we were 19, my friend Mark clearly told me he was gay. This didn’t upset me at all, we were always very close, gym together since we were 14 years old, school mates on the same faculty, study together to do the take the same exams. I didn’t realize then that Mark in confessing that he was gay had tried to make me understand that he had fallen in love with me.

I didn’t understand it at that time and continued to treat it as usual. Things between us, however, were no longer as before. When he was with me he was embarrassed, he was not looking at me, he was much more formal. One day I saw him really bad and I tried to make him talk. I had thought he had an emotional life at least minimal, but it was not like that. We were in the car and when I saw him uncomfortable I took his hand and I held it, he bit his lips until they bleed, then he started crying and told me about himself (and me) open heart. It was a very intense moment, he tended to move away from me and to tell me that I had to go my way, he told me that since I’m not gay, there would never be anything between us, but I loved Mark, like a brother, but I loved him, and I tried to make him understand, but he tended to interpret every affectionate gesture as an element to question my heterosexuality.

In short, it was not easy and it went on like this for months. Then he came to his mind the idea that if I had sex with him I would have realized that I was gay because he told me that only a gay guy could love him as I did. He insisted a lot. I told him that nothing would have changed between us and that I was straight and straight I would stay. He literally begged me to try and I finally said yes.

I had thought, at least at the beginning, that from the sexual point of view our intercourse wouldn’t create big embarrassments. I didn’t know how things would have gone, but in fact I felt that it was not my world and he felt it too. So it ended with a mutual masturbation a bit clumsy then he looked at me and told me that he had understood. The story of the sexual intercourse was over.

Why do I write you this email? The reason is that after that day our relationship is fading, he doesn’t look for me anymore, when I look for him, he escapes me. Once he met me while I was walking with my girlfriend and he changed the road and I was very sorry. I love Mark but I think that what I can offer him doesn’t interest him, when I talk to him he smiles ironically as if to say that it is not what he wants from me, but I can give him only that.

Project, but why do gay guys bring everything back to the common denominator of sex? I don’t want to lose Mark, for me he’s important, what can I do to make him understand that having a friend like him is important to me? Among other things, I think he was very ashamed of having insisted so much to do a little sex with me, he feels guilty and I see it very well, as if he had raped me or something like that, but I never considered this way what happened between us, I would like him to understand it but he doesn’t listen to me. Why cannot he understand that sex is not everything in life? Project, let me know what you think. It is almost absurd that I write to you for this reason but for me Mark is important and I know that you can understand me without misunderstandings.

Andrew”

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-sex-in-gay-hetero-relationships

LEARNING FROM GAY EXPERIENCES

Hello Project, I am a guy 22 years old and I want to tell you my story, then, if you like, I would like to exchange a few words with you (my contact msn is omissis). As a child I was the classic good child. My father and especially my mother made me do what they wanted using only praise and half-perplexed faces. When I did what they wanted: hugs and kisses and pampering to no end, I think in an excessive way; when instead I was doing something my own way came the reproaches: “but why didn’t you tell your mother?” “you always want to do everything on your own, dad and mom are here for this!” I was a puppet in their hands, and I didn’t realize it.

Maybe at that age it’s normal and something like that happens to everyone but for me that stadium lasted for too many years. The other boys at 11/12 years seek their autonomy, I was only looking for the approval of my parents. The same was for the parish. There was an old priest who was a bit like a guide for the guys, for me it was an oracle, I did anything to hear his “Good boy!” Same thing at school with the teachers (I did the middle School by priests). At school I was good but I didn’t understand practically anything of what I was studying, when I saw that someone thought differently from my teacher I thought that he was a total ignorant or just an idiot.

It went on like this up to 13 years. I didn’t understand anything, I didn’t have even a minimum of autonomy but I was happy so. Until I turned 13, I thought only that sex was a dirty thing that made by the depraved guys who didn’t want to study and who would have been very uncomfortable in life because they didn’t do what their parents said.

Shortly after I turned 13 I discovered masturbation by chance. It was something that I liked, at first I was worried because it was a new thing, but then it was a pleasant thing and I had had no negative consequences as a result of it. The idea that masturbation had something to do with sex didn’t even touch me, the models of sexuality that I had at that time were those a bit in gloomy tones that I received from my parents who never deepened the subject but branded everything related to sex saying: “It’s people who have the brain ruined!” In short, it had also occurred to me to tell my mother that I was masturbating, just because I thought that sex had nothing to do with what I was doing, and fortunately I didn’t. So I never told it the priest in confession or anyone else but not to avoid saying it but because it seemed to me like an obvious and trivial thing.

For all the rest I continued to be the classic good child who obeys parents, goes to church, etc. etc. In the church at that time I spontaneously recited the part of the mystic. I had so well assimilated the priest’s way of doing that I even thought I could became a priest. I was a perfect believer, the parish priest always praised me and I felt proud of myself, it wasn’t a recital, I wasn’t aware of playing a role that didn’t belong to me to which I had only perfectly adapted. In the end, so, everything was fine and I didn’t ask myself any questions.

It went on like this up to 14 years. I started middle School in a state school, shortly after I turned 14, and there I realized I was completely out of this world. I didn’t understand anything about the sexual discourses of my classmates, I just pretended to understand simply not to let my mates make fun of me. Then, slowly, over time, more interpreting the gestures they made than words they said I began to understand something, two things actually: that what I did every day was masturbation and that it was exactly that sexual activity that I had heard condemned by the parish priest, and then I realized for the first time that my comrades were masturbating thinking about the girls that for me were completely indifferent and moreover my companions used, for those who had fantasies like mine, forms of radical contempt, branding them with epithets of which I understood the meaning for the first time and above all I understood that such epithets were directed towards those like me.

What could I do? It wasn’t a problem related to my class or my school, I realized that in another class or in another school it would have been exactly the same. And then I couldn’t change school. I should have taken note of reality and should have told myself: I’m gay! And I should have been aware all the consequences, understanding that being gay, in my case, could be reconciled with family peace only at the cost of a total fiction destined to last a lifetime, the same speech more or less for religion.

But at that time I didn’t know anything about either my parents or the church and I thought that in the end a conciliation was possible. I was so used to receiving the encouragement of my parents and of the parish priest, that I couldn’t do without it even if I understood that as a gay I could get those things only pretending, but instead of getting the straight way, I took a cross street trying to reconcile the irreconcilable. Instead of accepting a game of explicit hypocrisy towards the outside, I preferred to be hypocritical with myself and pretend to maintain a true relationship with my parents and with the church.

I proposed to myself to tell my parents everything, then, when I really had to do so I made vague speeches, of malaise, of disgust of the world and similar things but I never managed to spit out the frog. Then something happened that changed my relationship with my parents, that is, it made me change the point of view I had on them. On the bottom of a drawer I found a pack of condoms, now I knew what they were. My parents seemed to me completely hypocritical. Why did they never speak to me honestly? But they didn’t and relationships with them became even more ambiguous.

With the priest, in confession, I managed to say how things were (at least there was the confessional secrecy) but he told me that if the thing went on without control I would have to tell my parents and they could help me. My attempts or fake attempts to solve the problem went on until I turned 18.

Through the internet I met a gay guy two years older than me (let’s call him Mark) and I talked a lot with him. Mark is a very good guy. A couple of times we met but we only talked, he wanted me to understand a lot of things but at the time I thought he was telling me such things only because he wanted to take me to bed with him. We had met on a very serious and non-gay site but then I was still afraid that gays could assault guys.

In short, Mark put me in a bit of a crisis, he was the first gay guy I knew and was in fact very different from what I thought gay people were. The first time we went out I thought he would try something with me, I tried to reject the idea a bit, but I wanted it very much. We had been talking for hours and I enjoyed answering him by rebutting his arguments with things that now seem to me incredibly stupid but at that time they seemed very intelligent. At the end of the evening I was a bit disoriented by the things he had told me and a little by the fact that he had not tried anything with me.

The following Sunday we went together to the sea, I put the swimsuit underneath because I thought we were going to have a bath and I also thought it would be the right time for my first sexual experience and instead nothing, he didn’t even think about taking a bath, he remained in jeans and we only talked. I was nervous, at the end of the evening I said to him: “But why didn’t you try anything with me today? But are you gay or not?” He looked at me with a questioning face as if to ask me if I was mad, then he shook his head and said:” Excuse me, I guess we don’t understand each other.” During the whole return journey I harassed him with questions that now I understand how stupid they were, and he didn’t answer. He left me at my house very coldly.

The next day I called him a thousand times until he answered me. He was newly talking to me but I felt that things were not like before. I hated him, I thought he would act the part of the proud gay who looks down on the naive friend, I thought he wanted to give a lot of weight to some stupid things that I had told him, among other things I was also a fool who tried to use with him an attitude that aimed to catching his sexual interest, the result was exactly the opposite. He told me that he didn’t feel like going ahead and that his way of being gay was completely different from mine and that trying to build something starting from too distant points of view would have been a useless effort. I called him a couple of times but then he told me he had nothing to say to me.

Now, after three and a half years, I understood what he meant. I cannot reproach him for anything. He left and I was alone. At least for a year I tried to destroy his memory and devalue it in every possible way telling me that he was a hypocrite, then I threw myself on the chats but always telling myself that I was not looking for sex but I just wanted to understand what it was. When I entered a chat, I would enter in theory as an explorer who enters unknown terrain, but at the base there was certainly the sex, I wanted to try, now I wanted to try at any cost, I also put in my profile some explicit photos in theory to see people’s reactions but basically to attract handsome guys.

In the early days I was cautious, I had read many things about AIDS and I didn’t want to take risks, but the temptation was so great. In the end I arranged an appointment with a 32 year old. At first he was well disposed and courted me, even too much, he wanted to take me to his house but I didn’t go there. We said goodbye after two hours of mutual discomfort, at the end he told me: “But why did you look for me?” I told him “To talk a little.” He looked at me with an ironic face and just said: “Ah!” And has gone.

The second I met was 26 years old, well dressed, but of a unique rudeness, three words out of four were bad words. With him I was afraid because I entered stupidly in his car and he started as a rocket and took me to a country site outside the city in a place where I had never been. I really thought it could end badly, maybe it’s just my absurd fantasies but I was afraid it could rape me.

And while we were going, I thought about how to escape this situation. When I got out of the car I did not follow him and I ran away and he chased me, screaming terrible words, when he saw people running he shouted that I was a thief and someone started to chase me, I escaped through the fields, they lost sight of me and gave up. It was also evening, it was dark and it was a terrible cold, but I started walking along the provincial road, I heard the dogs barking and I was scared, then I saw a train passing by and I understood more or less where I was I spent almost an hour to get to the station and waited two hours for the next train.

So I came home after midnight all dirty with mud and my parents asked me a thousand questions. My computer has the password and they couldn’t know anything about me. I said that I had gone for a ride outside the city and that I had slipped into the mud but they didn’t believe it and our relationships became very difficult.

I come to the conclusion. Three weeks ago I saw Mark, I begged him to listen to me, he told me that he now had a boyfriend but I told him that it was fine but that I was only in a desperate need to speak with a serious person who could listen to me and he stopped to talk to me, he listened to me very carefully and he even smiled, then he called his boyfriend and it was evident that Mark was happy (how much I wish I had been in the place of that guy!)

In the following days we met another time. Three days ago he introduced me to his boyfriend who is 25 years old and we went in three to have a pizza. Mark’s boyfriend is very sweet, even with me, he treats me well, it seems almost incredible. In other times I would not have endured being together with two gay guys who were in couple, now it seems to me a beautiful thing. I have two gay friends, two real friends, I felt never better than that. I am learning so many things from them and I realize that I didn’t understand anything at all. They are the ones who told me about Gay Project. If it’s a forum that they like it cannot be a stupid thing. In practice I have been reading a little the forum only a few days before Christmas. Now I understand the things I read but even only a month ago they would have seemed stupid to me, I have to thank Mark and his boyfriend who are slowly helping me to open my eyes. In short, I think it’s worth talking to you a little bit!

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-learning-from-gay-experiences

GAYS AND RISKS IN CHAT

I received this email:

“I send you this email because I need a real help and I don’t know what to do. I am a 25 year old guy who has always lived a lot of isolation, normal family, no coming out at home but passable relationships with parents, they don’t ask too many questions, I don’t know if they understood something but the point is not this.

So, a couple of months ago, a bit to try to give vent to the sense of loneliness that I have always taken within me, I signed up on a gay site, no dating sites or anything like that, just a gay site and I would say a very good gay site. I talked to the administrator and some staff guys and I had a very good impression. The site also has a chat, a simple thing, an IRC chat, which I often attended, sometimes it’s possible to do there some serious discussion, other times the chatting is very casual, even on the trivial, but always polite and then there are the operators who intervene in case of need, in short, it’s an environment that I like a lot.

In the forum of the group, at a certain point joined a guy whom I will call Mark, and he sent a presentation post that I liked a lot, let’s say simple but very pleasant, I answered his message and he answered mine, he seemed to me just a nice person and so I asked him if we could get in touch in chat to talk with less complications. We got in touch in chat, he gave me a lot of compliments for the things I wrote him. The first few times we kept the conversation on general subjects, then the conversation become a lot more free and he told me that he is not Italian but Californian and that it will stay in Italy only for a short time because his friends are all there and often chat with him.

I graduated in languages and all my work is done in English, I was wary happy to be able to chat in English with a native English speaker but he told me that he was perfecting Italian in Italy and preferred to talk with me in Italian. Our dialogue, however, seemed strange to me, in some way different from the dialogues with the other guys I met in chat, he asked me questions apparently generic but in reality tried to make me interested in him, I would almost say that I worried about him. He told me that he had experienced so many frustrations, that he had had many family problems and that he had never talked about gay things with anyone because in the family they would have killed him. Before closing the chat there was a very long exchange of greetings and smiley faces. After the first week a good relationship had been created between us and I was beginning to be happy with his friendship.

Then another gay joined the forum, a very young guy, who had just turned 18, and with him it happened something very similar to what had happened with Mark and also with him slowly I created a good relationship but he too made me feel anxiety, when we talked, he behaved as if I neglected him, he always greeted me with very ambiguous messages that made it clear that I had been rude to him and he had felt uncomfortable.

Now in practice I spend all my time chatting with these two guys but I start to feel the thing a little unpleasant. If I don’t call them, they call me but almost obsessively and reproach me for not having called them, they complain that they have been neglected, etc. etc. .. In short, for me they are becoming a real concern, because not to meet them I should abandon completely the site and the chat that I like a lot and where I have real friends, but if I go in chat I find myself in front of one or both of them too and they don’t give up. What should I do?”

I quote my answer below.

“The attitude of the two individuals is quite characteristic and there is reason to think that they are not two but one and then there is one thing that seems strange: a guy raised in the US doesn’t speak with you in English? The thing doesn’t make sense, he can also be in Italy to perfect Italian but everything raises big doubts. I would advise you to do some basic things:

1) Immediately notify the chat operators of your doubts, because what happened to you may have happened to others. So ask the operators if those users are really known. It often happens that in IRC chat a user who is trusted may receive the “voice” this means that this user is entered as a registered user in a particular list that enables him to some skills. If the users you’re talking about are not operators or “voice”, you have to be careful because the chats are public and you never know who’s behind them. There are also the thefts of nicks, because the IRC chat nicknames expire after 30 days of non-use and if one registers a nickname just expired he can be mistaken for the user whose nick has expired, but nick theft are rare because they require a very careful environmental monitoring and laborious procedures, typically a “voice” user is a real user.

2) In IRC chats there is a particular command called “Whois” with which you can know the connection IP of another user. Not all IRC chat clients allow the “Whois” without writing the appropriate command i.e. directly using client support, but making the login to the chat from a client where it is possible (there are several and the chat operators can give you all the indications) you easily get to know the IP of a user. Once the IPs of the two suspicious users are detected, if they are identical or very similar, i.e. with the first and second group of digits identical, you must immediately alert the operators because it’s (certainly, if the IPs are identical, and most likely if the IPs are very similar) a single person who uses two different identities, a sign that it’s good to be in guard.

3) Through an IP locator you can easily know with good approximation from where a user calls, unless he uses a proxy, but this is unlikely for ordinary users. If one has told you that he’s in a city and calls from another, that is, has an IP of another, it means that he lies and you must immediately notify the operators.

4) Keep in mind that using two different browsers on the same computer you can appear in chat with two different identities but always with the same IP. So seeing two characters together in the same chat does not rule out that they are actually the same person.

5) If you meet the American guy in chat, make sure that “he” has to write using accented words, like “perché”, or “può” or “così” because in the US keyboard there are no accented vowels, so if in a guy’s messages you see accented words it means that he uses an Italian keyboard and it is not at all likely that an American guy accustomed to the US headboard will use the Italian keyboard.

6) When you are chatting with these characters keep all the logs of conversations, absolutely avoid to put at risk your privacy, never go in voice and less than ever on cam because you could be registered.

7) Keep in mind that the first interest of the Administrator and the Chat Operators is that the chat is not polluted, so eliminating fakes from the chat is very important to them even more than it is to you. Let me know how it ends up.”

Two days later I received the following answer.

“You were right! But how did you understand that? The IPs used by the two guys were identical! And yet the thing of the accents worked, the accents were there. I tried to talk to the “Californian” guy in English but he always answered me in Italian! I spoke with the operators and they thanked me a lot, they told me that they would deepen things with their means so as to take discrete and effective measures. I never imagined that such things could happen, you opened my eyes! The operators with me were very kind and they told me that if everyone collaborated, there would be no strange characters in the chat!”

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-gays-and-risks-in-chat