GAYS AND SEXUAL EDUCATION

This post will try to summarize the effects of sexual education on gay sexuality.

First of all it is necessary to define the concept of sexual education. We start from a premise: the development of studies indicates that sexuality has a genetic-epigenetic base which is substantially defined already in the uterus and at most in the perinatal period. This genetic-epigenetic imprint determines not only the sex, that is, gender belonging in anatomical and physiological terms, but also the gender identity, that is, the perception of gender and sexual orientation.

The awareness of sexuality, its models, the more or less repressed manifestations of sexuality over the years, and the consequences on an individual psychological level, are instead largely determined by that familiar and social interaction, which we can call “sexual education” and which is not limited to just a single part of life, but follows the evolution of the individual according to the progressing of age.

The fact that sexuality, understood in its most profound aspects, is closely connected with the affectivity induces to consider sex education as an integral part of affective education.

A concept, in the educational field, should never be forgotten: education acts on the basis of an individual biological genetic-epigenetic substratum but is also linked to the stages of development, to possible pathologies and many other factors. Education means to develop the potential of an individual “respecting first of all the biological identity”. A good gardener knows that by placing an apple tree in the ideal conditions for the cultivation of an apricot tree, not only we will not be able to obtain apricots from the apple tree, but it will suffer a lot and may even die. Cultivating a tree means understanding first of all what tree it is and then providing it with the appropriate care for that specific tree. This is also true for people.

Let’s start from the family dimension, i.e. from emotional-sexual education inside the family.

The family is the first environment in which a child begins to build relationships. In order to begin to feel an affective gratification, the child must perceive the sense of acceptance and affectionate care from the parents. If the child is the subject of confrontation (unwanted children, doubtful parenthood, a child that has become an object of contention between parents and grandparents or between the parents themselves), he easily becomes aware that he’s not the center of family life and begins to experience the sensation of marginality and abandonment yet in tender age.

Perceiving the disagreement between the parents is inherently traumatic and transmits automatically, by imitation, a model of behavior that is not emotional but competitive, stimulates aggressiveness in one direction and sense of frustration in the other. The child also instinctively senses the discrepancy between words and behavior. Cuddling a child for a while and then leaving him alone in the walker or in front of the television not only causes a sense of abandonment but also provides an initial model of falsehood: “I love you so much, but you must keep calm and stay aside because I have other things to do!” The speech is basically inconsistent and false because it brings together declarations of affection and behaviors that show disinterest.

Often the frustrations of parents, their claiming attitudes, their blaming of this or that, their justifying only themselves, transmit to the child the feeling of unreliability of the parent who begins to be a faltering reference point. Nothing is worse than raising your voice to impose your point of view, and I don’t even want to talk about the possible physical violence in the family, which is experienced by the child in a devastating way: a father who tugs at his mother, who slaps her, a mother who plays hysterical scenes and screams at her husband, represent models that the child will certainly internalize, or by imitation or contrast, identifying, according to the situations, as an aggressive person or as a victim, and this will move the child away from the emotional contact, which is the true purpose of emotional education.

There are several other behaviors, apparently neutral, which transmit a sense of insecurity to the child:

1) A parent who speaks in the singular setting himself against the other (“I … while your mother …”) . The use of “we/us” conveys the idea of affective family, harmony and solidarity.

2) To talk too often about money or about who brings home money, or about social hierarchies that don’t see parents at the same level.

3) To speak badly about other people the child knows.

4) To show that it is difficult or impossible to speak with the other parent, that he/she has defects, that doesn’t care for the family and, worse of the worst, doesn’t care for children.

The presence of parents in the life of young children, up to preadolescence, should be constant, affectionate, dialoguing and never abstractly normative.

A particular consideration must be given to managing family conflicts that may arise, and indeed inevitably arise in the family over the years. It can be the conflicts of the parents with other relatives, of between parents themselves and also of the conflicts between parents and children. The management of conflicts must always be discursive and shared, no form of violence, even verbal, can be admitted for no reason. Recognizing the other’s reasons and seeking conciliation doesn’t indicate weakness but the exact opposite. The child must realize that the parent can see things in another way and you can talk to find a point of equilibrium without coming to breakage.

Affective education suffers a violent trauma when the parent-child relationship is dominated by the fear of the parent’s violent reactions. Even worse is the idea that a parent invokes the presence of the other parent to induce fear in the children, such in the classic: “I’ll tell your father!”
As one grows, one element takes on particular importance: confidence, which must be accompanied by confidentiality on the part of the parent. If a parent receives a confidence by the child, he must keep it for himself, if he doesn’t, he would induce the child to immediately interrupt the relationship of confidence with the parent that will anymore be resumed. Any attitude that shows the tendency of the parent to abandon himself to gossip, devalues him in the eyes of his son and reduces the possibilities for dialogue.

A general criterion must always be kept in mind: education operates through the example, not through words: children tend to assimilate and imitate parents’ behavior, not to put into practice what parents say in words but don’t do themselves.

What has been said so far, as it is easy to understand, requires from parents a substantial affective maturity that too often is taken for granted, assuming that the parent is always substantially up to the task of education and that at most he needs a training aimed at the conscious rethinking of contents and methods of education. Sometimes however, and not very rarely, these assumptions don’t occur, in some cases because parents themselves have been in turn educated (assuming that this word can be used in these situations) with completely improper and substantially non-educational methods, and in other cases because one or both parents can be psychopathological subjects (for example paranoid or perverse narcissists). While in the first case it is possible with regard to the parent a concrete action (even if of long duration and with uncertain outcome) of reorientation or re-education of the adult, in the second case such action is essentially impossible and the parent-child educational relationship can turn into a framework of family violence and abuse, up to the most extreme consequences. It should be emphasized that violence and family abuse practiced by paranoid or perverse narcissists parents are often not visible on the outside and create very deep suffering in the children with unforeseeable consequences even in the long term.

Sex education of the child

Today, children are bombarded starting from an early age with images more or less erotic and very often begin to take an interest in sexuality in a very abstract way well before adolescence, so they assimilate, in a very tender age, banal visions of the sexuality as a “forbidden game”. Pedagogues have often been concerned with how to convey to children a more correct concept of sexuality: typical is the model of the flower, the pollination and the fruit, but in this way there is the risk, for gays far from being indifferent, to provide only the concept of sexuality aimed at reproduction, this will also convey the concept of sexual role, of the boy and girl as society conceives them, and of typically male and typically female behavior, taking for natural and obvious cultural attitudes often very questionable.

Accustom a little girl to the idea that femininity involves high heels and makeup means distort the concept from the beginning, like to think that the boy should be interested necessarily in football and in certain types of games is in itself misleading. It is very easy to see that in a school class of children who are not yet pre-adolescent, boys tend to play “boyish” games with each other, and girls tend to play “girlish” games with each other and this is the result of an education for sexual roles, how society understands them, starting from an early age.

The child before puberty sometimes shows an embryonal hetero affectivity, which involves interest in being with little girls, talking with them, playing with them, or an embryonal gay affectivity, which involves interest in being with other boys, talking to them and playing with them. These behaviors are the first manifestations of sexual orientation, they are not yet conscious, but they are elements on which we should reflect a lot and to which we should pay the utmost attention, but, I must say very clearly, never a repressive attention. I would like to point out that the transmission of role models deforms and often stifles these spontaneous tendencies altogether and tends to let the tendency towards homologation prevail, based on the fear of marginality within the peer group.

In the memory of many gays, the recollection of the first affectionate friendships with other boys and often the worried attitudes of the parents in front of such manifestations remains well imprinted. We are talking about friendships between children, not yet pre-adolescent who, if not totally conditioned by education, begin to show signs of homo-affinity or hetero-affectivity.

Parents, who often lack a broader horizon on sexuality, consider themselves as the only possible model for the sexuality of their children. The idea that children are not and cannot be a photocopy of parents is still struggling to get accepted. It is precisely for this reason that some children’s behaviors alarm parents and trigger a short communication circuit that ends up disrupting trust and establishing suspicious attitudes.
The child who plays with dolls or puts on his mother’s high heels or wig or dresses up as a woman generally raises questions in the parents, and this happens even more strongly if two children develop a very close friendship. Apart from the fact that these are completely different phenomena, because the first refers to gender identity and the second to sexual orientation, it is very probable that the child experiences in these situations the concern of the parent that manifests itself through limitations, prohibitions or simple removals.

The basic criterion of a good sex education is to promote the spontaneous development of affectivity and sexuality, avoiding a repressive sanctioning behaviors. The parent facing behaviors that are not what he would have expected believes that it is his duty to “correct”, to “guide” the child’s behavior, to “defend” him from dangerous influences, this attitude, which is perfectly understandable, is acceptable , positive and necessary, if “to correct ” means to demonstrate by example how one can have affection and respect for friends, without demanding too much and without running away from one’s duties towards those friends, if “to drive ” means to explain, to make the child understand the meaning of affective relationships even in adult life, for example by receiving friends cordially and affectionately, if “defending” from dangerous influences means to accustom children not to trivialize, not to exploit friendship, to take it seriously and to respond adequately when the need arises, but “to correct” means for many parents only to repress, “to drive” means to remove freedom and “to defend” means to segregate.

I would like to stress that the signs of homo-affectivity are generally very precocious and repressing them means inducing the guilt and submission of the child who begins to consider himself wrong. The repression of infantile homo-affectivity sometimes manifests itself explicitly, and sometimes through a systematic attempt to remove the child from contexts in which that homo-affectivity tends to manifest: if the child has developed a strong friendship towards another child or even towards a boy a little older during the summer holidays at the sea, the next year instead of going to the sea the family will go to the mountains.

A very delicate subject in this area is the prevention of sexual violence and abuse. Clearly, the child’s segregation reaches the goal but at the cost of a total repression of the individual freedom. The real problem lies in avoiding the risks (which are not only fancy) leaving the child a freedom commensurate with his age. Leaving a child (under 12-13 years ) alone for the whole day together with his playmates exposes him to objective dangers, which he may not realize. But if sexual abuses perpetrated by external pedophile subjects are generally the most feared, experience teaches that abuses are practiced only exceptionally by strangers and for the most part they rise from a family environment. Parking children by relatives or friends from morning to night means abandoning them to situations that can be objectively risky.

Before 12-13 years it is good that the child finds its spaces for the most part with the presence of the parents: the parents speak in the living room, the children play in the next room. Parents in this way give their children an example of socializing and leave them freedom spaces according to their age.

Beyond the age of 12-13, the risk of abuse doesn’t cease because abuse can also be committed toward adolescents or preadolescents both by family members and by educators, priests or teachers, especially in contexts where the minor cohabits with other peers for education or care purposes. Particular attention should be dedicated to the education of responsible use of the web for the risks of priming to which minors are exposed on the net. It is important to be vigilant in order to catch any signs of disturbance, alarm or exaltation in children, talk to them about it, if it is possible, and contact the postal department or the local Police Office to receive assistance when faced with dangerous situations. Obviously, the best prevention of priming risks on the net is realized right through risk awareness, the habit of always thinking before acting, and the habit of protecting one’s own privacy and that of others, and on these aspects education has a decisive influence.

When a child manifests the first forms of curiosity in relation to sexuality, it should be taken seriously, avoiding trivializing and manifesting evasive attitudes. It is essential that sexuality is never detached from its affective implications and is not reduced exclusively to procreative purposes. The child must become familiar with the idea of a sexuality that is not a forbidden game but a manifestation of affection for another person. Many parents never show explicit emotional behaviors in front of their children, for example, the father and mother don’t hug each other in front of children and avoid any physical act with each other, even the simple caresses, others instead let themselves go to forms of more or less sexual play in front of their children who in this way feel themselves excluded from the relationship with their parents. Of course

It’s necessary to find a balance between these opposing attitudes: the spontaneous caresses and affections between parents, the cuddles, which end up with the involvement of the children in the affection of the parents themselves are extremely positive in stabilizing the mood and in developing a harmonious character in the children. The double bed must become a non-exclusive environment, reserved for the parents only, but must be an environment in which children can also be admitted. The physical contact with parents, commensurate with the age of children, must lead to the idea of the affectionate embrace between adults, which expresses participation and sympathy.

Let’s come now to one of the key points of the speech: how to deal with the issue of homosexuality. The parent who is explicitly dealing such an argument with the child for the first time, must never forget that if one takes for granted that one’s son is hetero, in 8 cases out of 100 he is mistaken. Sending positive messages about homosexuality certainly doesn’t induce heterosexuals to become homosexuals, but can help homosexuals to grow accepting without complexes their homosexuality. Many parents believe that the specifically sexual education of children is not up to parents and should be delegated to school, church, doctors and other educational agencies, as if sexuality were an object of study or a question of faith or health protection. Obviously all these aspects are not foreign to sexuality, which, however, is a very complex reality that cannot be considered only under sectoral perspectives.

Sexuality is a component of the ordinary life of all of us and one of the essential contents of a serious educational relationship. I have been dealing with homosexuals for many years and I have often seen gay adult men, still deeply conditioned by the conflicting relationships with parents due to homosexuality. The vast majority of homosexuals not publicly declared, speak about their own homosexuality just with a few trustworthy friends, while those who talk about it openly in the family are very rare, perhaps today less than ten years ago, but it is still a narrow minority. For a gay boy, talking to his parents and finding their respect and their affection even in an atmosphere of clarity is absolutely essential and stabilizing. On the other hand, misunderstanding and rejection leave deep traces and greatly complicate the achievement of true autonomy on the part of the children.

I add a fundamental thing: a gay boy who feels accepted within the family will not need to go and look for other environments in which to find understanding and tends to develop his affective life without hiding and for this reason objectively also running much less risks. When a gay guy presents his boyfriend to his parents (what was once unthinkable and now becomes more and more possible) he realizes at 100% the dimension of the normality of his affectivity-sexuality. Surprised, reticent, perplexed or hostile attitudes of parents severely undermine their children’s self-esteem and create often irreparable fractures.

I would like to touch on a very delicate last subject. Sometimes the boys who grow up, whether they are heterosexual or gay, find themselves instinctively experiencing drives that alarm them, classics are examples of sexual fantasies about much older people, pedophile fantasies, sadistic or masochistic fantasies and erotic drives addressed within their own family. It is objectively very difficult that topics of this kind enter explicitly in speeches between parents and children regarding sexuality, because if the fear of negative reactions to homosexuality is already strong, the fear of negative reactions to those contents can be much more alarming. The issue of pedophilia can be responsibly tackled by highlighting the very serious objective damage that those behaviors can cause but stressing nevertheless the fact that those tendencies can exist even in very good people who would never put them into practice. If there is an attitude that a parent must show in front of such things, it can only be to clearly distinguish the fantasies that one cannot control, from the actions that can and must be taken under control. A similar argument can be used also regarding sadistic and incestuous fantasies.

With regard to intergenerational relationships it is necessary to avoid confusing them with larval forms of pedophilia, because intergenerational relationships are relationships between consenting adults even if of very different ages.

A correct attitude in the face of all these things helps people feel understood and accepted and enhances their morality and their capacity for discernment and this is the basic premise to accept themselves and to be able to self-control. It should be emphasized, however, that pedophile fantasies, of which people almost never speak in a scientifically correct way, are a reality very complex and difficult to manage. In many cases these fantasies are found in adults who have in turn been victims of violence or sexual abuse. It should be clarified that, although fantasies and actions are distinct things, it happens that fantasies are or may be prodromal to actual or possible behaviors, which, even if only considered merely as hypotheses, can cause levels of profound suffering.

Slipping from fantasies to pedophile behaviors can sometimes become easy and almost obvious. The sex tourism, for example, can lead the adult to look for more and more young partners of one or the other sex, producing a slow but effective slip towards pedophilia. The use of Internet child pornography should be considered as a sign strongly indicative of a dangerous corroboration of fantasies, prodromal to possible pedophile behaviors. According to what I learn from people who experience pedophile fantasies I’m led to believe that slipping into occasional pedophile behaviors, which can be the origin of recurring pedophile phantasies, also of obsessive types, is certainly possible even for people who have never had previously this kind of fantasies.

A person who experienced this kind of fantasies told me: “I had never had such fantasies before, then it happened to me an experience in which it would have been easy to come to the action, but it didn’t happen, but taking a step without return would have been very easy. And since then, such fantasies remained strongly stamped in my mind. I don’t like them, that somehow compromised my sexuality for years because I think that I wouldn’t even talk about such things with my partner, because he would react badly.”

I will not analyze here the possible compulsive aspects of pedophilia but because many men who have pedophilic fantasies are aware of it and are afraid of being able to practice pedophile behavior, in some countries (in Germany, in England and in the US) there are support services who deal with prevention by providing specialized psychological support to those who request it because they experience pedophile tendencies.

At the general educational level there is still an ancestral fear towards psychologists and psychiatrists that should be eliminated, leading people to understand that they are health workers who can provide psychological and even pharmacological support if necessary. Prevention education, which deserves a detailed examination, is not only carried out in providing information on sexually transmitted diseases, but also in the prevention of other risky behaviors for oneself and for others such as pedophile ones.

Certainly less sensitive are the themes related to the couple’s relationship structure: monogamy, indissolubility, socialization and formalization of the couple’s relationship, relationship between friendship and love. Insisting on the legitimacy of a single behavioral model collides with the reality of affective life which is often not monogamous, not unbreakable neither reducible to structure. The meaning of the couple relationship is usually assimilated by imitation already in childhood and, according to the general rule, is transmitted through the behavior of adults and not through their speeches. The relational aspect of sexuality should never be overlooked, according to this relational aspect the fundamental satisfaction in a sexual relationship derives from the realization that our partner is really involved and is in turn gratified by the relationship. Needless to say, these must be relationships that are actually wanted consciously and freely by both partners.

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If you want, you can participate in the discussion of this post open on the Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-gays-and-sexual-education

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A GAY SON PROUD OF HIS FATHER

Hi Project,
I am a 55 year-old parent, unfortunately a widower for five years, who found himself in these days to discover that his son (his only child) is homosexual. If I still had my wife I could discuss with her, but unfortunately this is not possible. I have practically no knowledge of what homosexuality is and on what it may entail and I cannot talk to anyone about it because then they would ask themselves why I talk about it and I would risk to undermine my son’s privacy. My son is 21 years old, he has always been an exemplary guy, studious but also cheerful, sporty, I would say happy with his life. He never had a girlfriend, this is true, and I probably underestimated it, but he had female friends who came home to study with him, in short, it didn’t occur to me that he could be gay, he never had any effeminate attitudes, physically is a nice guy, normal and nobody identifies him as gay, at least according to what I think.
You’ll wonder how I got to know he’s gay, since he never mentioned it. I never spied on him, I would never have done it, but I didn’t even really have any reason to do it. One day when I had to work in the afternoon, I see Matthew go out to go to university. I go to the kitchen to prepare a cup of tea, before entering the kitchen I see a piece of paper on the ground, or better a note of those accompanying the gifts, there were a few written words: “You’re my sweet puppy!” [The reader must keep in mind that in Italian, the language of the author of the email he’s reading, the masculine nouns are easily distinguishable from the feminine ones and the adjectives must be used in the masculine or feminine form according to the nouns to which they refer. In Italian, if you are addressing a man or a guy you have to tell “Cucciolo docissimo”, if you address a woman or a girl you have to say “Cucciola dolcissima”, in English it would be said in both cases “very sweet puppy”.] The thing that came absolutely spontaneous to me was to think that Matthew had a girl and that that note was a note that the girl had sent him, then I looked Attentively at the writing and I said to myself: “But this is Matthew’s writing!” Instinctively the first thing that came to my mind was to put everything back exactly as I had found it and leave the house, because I would never have wanted my son to feel embarrassed, and so I did, I returned late in the afternoon, when I knew that Matthew had to go to swim, and I noticed that the note was no more on the ground, evidently Matthew had returned, he had found the note on the ground and had reassured himself. But I was totally upset. I considered all of the possible hypothesis, but the ticket didn’t allow other interpretations: Matthew had written it for a guy! It didn’t seem likely that it was a joke, in short, the conclusion could only be that my son was gay. But how could such a thing be possible, he has missed his mother since he was 16, his father has always been present and even too present. I was comforted by telling myself that anyway the note was the only clue that led me to that conclusion and that it was a weak clue, but a minute later it didn’t seem so weak to me. I didn’t say anything to Matthew and everything between us continued exactly as usual. I had the idea of spying on him, but I put it aside immediately, because it seems to me an unworthy behavior, I know that the best thing would be to talk to Matthew and tell him exactly what happened and tell him that the note I had put it back on the ground after reading it because I felt agitated and embarrassed, but taking a step like that is not easy because Matthew could also feel embarrassed, and then I started trying to get an idea of what the homosexuality is. At the beginning I was literally upset by what I found on the net. I’ve read about some apps that allow gays to recognize each other, I read something about dating sites, but they were upsetting things. The biggest fear was for the HIV because I read that the risk of HIV for a homosexual is much higher than for a heterosexual guy. After a bit of research I arrived on your forum and read a few testimonials from parents. I must say that finding Gay Project has comforted me a lot, but unfortunately sites like your forum are a very rare and on the contrary there are a lot of risky situations. In short, I think you can give me some useful information on how to behave with Matthew. I’m not homophobe, I would like to help my son be gay but I don’t know how to do such a thing, I would like him to understand that I just want his happiness, I don’t want to make him straight, I just want him to be happy with his father.
I thank you in advance.
Guido
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Hi Guido,
I think that Matthew has every reason to be happy with his father! It would be very nice if there were many fathers like you! I understand very well that a father who doesn’t know the reality of homosexuality, can remain doubtful and agitated in discovering that his son is gay. If the writing is really that of your son (more than likely, because usually guys speak in the family of their girlfriend and don’t speak at all about their guys) there is no doubt at all, but the content of that note, even if very short, makes us think of a serious relationship, that is, of a relationship that has at its base a form of affection, of tenderness. The fact that your son is calm, has a good relationship with you and has never had problems with school or university suggests that he is a prudent guy and also aware of the risks that sex can involve and anyway, certainly  a guy doesn’t write: “you’re my very sweet puppy!” to a guy found in an erotic chat! So, instinctively, I would say that Matthew knows what he does, I could even be wrong but he doesn’t have the attitude of the guys who end up in trouble. What to do? You found the solution yourself: talk to Matthew, tell him exactly how things went, I don’t think he can take it badly. He is a guy, yes, but he’s also an adult and you have to treat him as such and then, from what you write, there is no doubt, you love him. Don’t be afraid of your son! And above all, be sure that he will be proud of you! A hug!
Project
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Hi Project,
I spoke with my son last night. When I finished telling him about the note, he opened his arms, smiled and added: “I was afraid you would have taken it badly, oh God, I’ve had the idea of telling you that but I thought it would upset you … , but now the problem is over.” Then he told me about the guy, who is a university colleague who has also come to our home and met me sometimes and that I always thought was a very special guy. I told Matthew that I wrote to you and he stayed there wide-eyed, he said: “Did you write to Project? But do you know that I know him in person?” And then it was my turn to stay wide-eyed. He told me that he wrote to you several times (signing as Matthew97) and he met you in person with two other guys of the forum). I feel very reassured and then what you said to me happened: he patted my cheek and told me. “Fathers like you are few!” I don’t hide that I was happy.
Guido
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If you want, you can participate in the discussion of this post open on the Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-a-gay-son-proud-of-his-father

GAY GUYS BETWEEN APPS AND CAMS

Hi Project,
I read a lot on your forum and also the manual Being Gay and I breathed a sigh of relief, from these readings comes out an image of gay life that is very close to what I live. I had surfed a lot on the Internet looking for something realistic, but frankly I was always disappointed. I also spent a period approaching chats and apps dedicated to gays and there, for me, it was just like going to explore the moon. I wondered: but how is it possible that there are no “normal” gay guys, that is guys not obsessed with sex and no too much engaged with the gay movement, guys who mustn’t necessarily have a flag. I, with one exception that you will soon understand, have never seen the classic next door gay guy. Ok, we are few, even if not very few, but I didn’t see even a single gay guy and I didn’t even perceive a vague trace of them, just zero!

I’m 26 years old, throughout the university period I was very careful to spy on possible gay signals but I didn’t find any, or at least some clues were so labile that I was discouraged from going forward at any level. Then I found Gay Project, there were many beautiful testimonies, but, Project, are all old, even several years old, of this year there is very little, almost nothing, in short, Project, gay guys have escaped also from Gay Project! Where did they go? I think in the apps that explode for how many people you can find there, but it’s a shame, because the forum serves to reflect and understand something of the lives of others and also of one’s own live. However, I close this parenthesis and come to the main motivation for my email. In practice, the story is about my relationship with the chats and some people known in chat, especially with one.

A couple of years ago, after a thousand hesitations, after doubts, scruples and everything you want, I register on a famous app for gay dating, I don’t name it, but I think you understand what I mean. When I enter for the first time I feel like Pinocchio in the Country of the toys. I said to myself: “But it’s all so easy! But how did I not understand it before? I was totally stupid!” I get the first contact. I expect something very rough: four questions and then to the point! But no, I find a very kind guy who asks me how long I have been using the app, what is my name, in which region of Italy I am, etc. etc., in practice a normal chat, then asks me if we can see each other on cam, here I remain very perplexed, a little I had to imagine it, but then and there I felt caught on the counterattack, I finally told him that I didn’t feel like doing it, he tried to insist, but I didn’t change my mind and then he greeted me with a very characteristic phrase: “So what are you doing here?”

However, that experience put me in front of a Shakespearean doubt that I had to solve: “Cam or not cam?” In the end I told myself that app without cam makes no sense and I decided that I would show up on cam (dressed, of course !). At the next contact, more or less the same ritual, a little chatter and then the request to go on cam. I open the cam, but I find myself in front of a guy who doesn’t inspire me: long dirty nails, greasy hair, no! Just repellent and moreover probably over 40! Before making him talk I told him brutally: “You’re not my type, I’m not interested, bye!” He replied with unspeakable insults: “Piece of sh.t … you’re beautiful! Ugly asshole!!” Then I closed and it ended there.

After an abstinence from the app lasted a few days, I try again, at the beginning the script is more or less the usual, we open the cam, well, this time I have to say that the guy gives me a good impression, he’s not the guy of my dreams, but I think it’s worth trying with him, but he immediately freezes me: “No, forget it! You’re not my type, I like more fat guys, I’m sorry, Bye!” After having been put down this way, I deleted the app, but a couple of months later I downloaded it again and this time at the first shot I make bingo, I like the guy, he’s young, he says he’s 23 years old, moreover he’s nice and he doesn’t close the cam but goes on chatting.

We speak, in practice never talk about sex, but he doesn’t even talk about women as happened with a guy I had met in a chat. Let’s say this he was not bad, we spend a week chatting and he never talks about sex, ok, I tell myself that maybe he’s a bit ‘inhibited, on the other hand he’s young, we spend chatting another week and we talk about everything from fractals to quarks, from mandalas to coelacanth but we never talk about sex. I have never endured those who speak immediately about sex, but before or after we must come to the point.

I do not know whether to start the speech, but I don’t even know where to start from, I let him talk, but he starts to talk about Chinese cinema and things like that, so I cannot stand him anymore and I say to him: “But why did you look for me on the app? And he told me, I looked for you because I know you well … ” I tell him that I had never seen him and he answers me in a completely unexpected way: “If you are referring to what you saw in cam, that’s not me, he’s a friend who made himself available … ” I began to be afraid because I didn’t know who I was talking to and I feared something bad, like blackmail or maybe he could also have been a psychopath. He told me: “I know many things about you! I know that this morning you went late to work …”

Here I began to really worry, he could be some of my work colleagues, it seemed strange that someone followed my movements and spied on me, I didn’t understand what motivation could lead to similar things. Then before I wrote my answer he closed. I felt agitated, I didn’t sleep at night. Who could be interested in spying on me? And if the guy knew I was late at work he could only be one of my colleagues. In the morning I go to work, but I have the impression that nothing has changed, the three colleagues with whom I work and sometimes I even chat a bit every day don’t show signs of any kind. Things are not clear at all.

Who could know that I had arrived late for work? The guy does not show up for two days, I don’t know if I feel more comfortable or more agitated, then I get a message: “You’re puzzled eh … I can understand you!” I tried to make myself feel calm and to widen the speech in order to have some more elements to understand what was happening. He replied: “I feel that you are worried and that you pretend not to be, you must learn to recite better.” I was puzzled and asked him: “Who are you? What do you want from me?” He replied: “I’m your conscience! And I want to bring you to think a little bit. I know you, I know that today at the bar you didn’t have the usual breakfast, you chose something different, but why? Maybe are you agitated?” “But I totally ban you and close this shit of an app!” “Certainly you can do it, but the idea of being controlled will remain, there are so many ways … ” And he closed.

I tried to remember who was near me at the bar but I had not noticed anyone, at least I had ruled out that it was a work colleague, because in the morning at the bar there was nobody I knew, but someone obviously knew me. However, in the following days the guy would not have returned to my bar, of this I could be sure. He said he was my conscience and wanted to make me think. Could he be a person I don’t know? But what interest would push a stranger to make all this comedy? However, for every good purpose I banned him and I deleted the app again.

A few days later I went into a chat where I used to go sometimes even before, and I got a call from a stranger with nickname “Mattew92-bis” and it alarmed me because Mattew92 was my nickname. He asks me: “How are you?” I ask him right away if we know each other and he says “Sure!” Then he adds: “You did well to delete the app, but what are you looking for here?” I told him: “But who are you? Because you are becoming an obsession for me!” He replied: “No! Just shut down the chat and I disappear!” And I said to him: “But then I find you somewhere else?” He just said, “We’ll see” and he broke off.

I permanently closed my account on the chat and then I came back to it with a different nick, but he was still there and told me: “Why are you playing with me? What do you do you? You get out and then re-enter?” I insist: “Who are you? If you don’t tell me, I go to the police.” He said to me: “And if I were the police?” I insisted, “Are you a cop?” And he closed. I was really scared and didn’t know what to expect, then I received an email from “Mattew92-bis”, I quote it below.

“Hello Matthew, from now you will not hear me again, I’m sorry if I made you worry, my name is Matthew too, and I was born the same year and the same month you were born, but a few days later. I live in front of your house, you’ve never noticed me but I have watched you for a long time, you leave the window open and you have a mirror behind your back that allows me to see what you do at the PC even if you don’t know, I know you’re gay, don’t worry, because I’m gay too, and I’ll not disgrace you, the day you were late at work I followed you from home to where you work, when you had breakfast differently I was in the bar, but you didn’t even notice me, when you enter the chat I see it immediately and I also know your nick, for the application I have a version a little modified by me, I can detect gays that I have around me but they cannot detect me because my location is fixed and always in the same place. If you look at the window you can see from where I look at you: there is a green tent with drawn circles, one of those circles is a hole and from there I look at you with a powerful telescope. Now probably you too will put a tent behind the window, and I will not have my show anymore, but, instead of chasing guys on apps and chats, why don’t you come visit me? You are really a nice guy, I … well … it’s not up me to judge, but I am attaching a photo of me, so you can understand who I am! I wait for you, now you know where to find me! Please note that I’m not looking for sex, then if sex comes by itself, ok, but I’m looking for a serious gay friend and I know it could be you, if you’ll ever forgive me.”

I opened the picture and it occurred to me that I had seen that guy a couple of times in passing and he was also a handsome guy. I took courage and went to his house. I told him that he had made me worry a lot, and that he finally made the voyeur. He replied: “Yes, it’s true, it started like this, but then you really intrigued me.”

Actually he was not looking for sex, I don’t know if there will be sex sooner or later, I hope so, but I’m fine even without sex, I found a totally unexpected friend. He didn’t want me to go to chats because he wanted me to think only of him, now we see each other every day, because he lives right in the building in front of mine, he’s a guy with a monstrous intelligence and he really cares about me. Where the story will end up I don’t know but it seems like a good story and then, seen closely he’s just beautiful, sweet but also confident, reassuring.

Well, I was not expecting a coming out like that. I didn’t put any curtains at the window, I saw his telescope with which he spied on me, it was a huge, very heavy, professional tool, he told me was equipped with a 35 cm mirror, and you could see everything even the smallest details. He told me that the first thing that had struck him was that in my house there were never girls and that everything started from there, a beautiful guy (he says I’m beautiful), no girls … the thing must be deeply analyzed! And he did bingo! He made me shit with fear but now we are two gay friends! And he is not a pathological case as I had feared!
I hug you, Project, and thanks for your skype contact, I’ll call you soon.
Mattew92

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-gay-guys-between-apps-and-cams

A GAY GUY GOES TO THE ANDROLOGIST

Hi Project,

I am a closeted thirty-year-old gay guy who lives in a very homophobic town in the rich north-east of Italy. I would like to tell you my story and ask you what you think.

Just a nod on my life until a couple of years ago, at the beginning I used to look for a real love and I never found it, maybe because I looked for it in the wrong places and with the wrong methods, then I started to go not so much for subtlety (Quiet! I have always used all the methods of prevention.)

At the age of 27, I have to say, I was a drifter of sex, in a year I had collected almost a dozen stories, which obviously were not serious things, but in the end they were even frustrating. I would have liked a normal guy who loved me and I would have gladly put the final point to all the whirlwind of my research on the apps.

One day just through an app a guy contacts me, he says he is 26 years old, we talk a bit, he’s polite, seems one not obsessed with sex, he proposes me to meet each other, I think it’s too early and I try to postpone, I expect him to disappear but it doesn’t happen. He asks me for photos but I don’t give them to him, but we keep on talking even in the following days, we talk about everything, even about sex but without overdoing it and always in a very polite way.

After three weeks of online contacts he again asks me to meet him, this time I say yes but since I don’t want problems of any kind, we agree to meet in another city and spend Saturday and Sunday together (I don’t work on Saturday). I decide to go by train so as not to be identifiable even from the license plate of the car. Note, Project, that I had never even seen a picture of him and he had never seen one of me. We meet at the station at 9.00 in the morning. I tell my parents that I have to go on a mission for two days (things like that happened other times).

I do not know who I will meet, but I feel very excited, there is something that tells me that it will not be the usual meeting “escape and flee”. When I get on the train I realize I don’t have condoms with me, but I think I can buy them there too and that they might not be useless. In the place of the appointment he is already there waiting for me, the recognition signal works (a certain newspaper under his right arm). It seems a nice guy, indeed very nice. We leave the luggage at the station depot and we go around, it’s a beautiful sunny morning.

It’s all radically different from my previous encounters, we don’t talk about sex, rather we feel a certain embarrassment, we have breakfast together, we often exchange smiles, he’s a very sweet guy, I would like to know something more about him but asking questions seems inappropriate. He knows the city, even if it is not his city and has already prepared a whole project of things to do and places to go.

I perceived his presence, there were many silences, then I asked him if he felt embarrassed and he replied: “Before seeing you, while I was waiting for you! but not now! Not at all now! And you?” “I … well I’m just fine, no problem.” Then we began to joke, to tell each other jokes. He doesn’t tell sexual jokes and uses a very clean language. We go to lunch together in a restaurant, the climate is very relaxed, peaceful, pleasant.

We walk until evening, we have dinner together, then it’s time to go to the hotel, he says: “Do you mind if we take two single rooms?” I say no, but that request cools my enthusiasm a lot. He is glad that I didn’t insist on taking a double room. We go to the hotel but there are no single rooms, he looks at me and tells me: “What can we do? Is it okay for a double room?” I spread my arms and make a sign that it’s okay too, since there’s no other way.

We enter the room, he is very embarrassed and tells me: “Now what do we do?” I tell him that I would like to have a bit of sex, I would really like it but I don’t have condoms with me and ask him if he has any, he tells me: no, but he adds that there are also the non-dangerous ways of having sex and that he especially likes them. The room is very well heated. Project, I spare you the details and I just tell you that I had never had sex like that with a guy, just mutual masturbation and a lot of physical intimacy, but it was something unique because I saw him involved in such a total way that I wouldn’t have imagined that it could even exist. It was just an exciting thing at levels I had never tried. At the end we fell asleep in each other’s arms.

In the morning we didn’t have time to repeat the experience because we had to leave the room before 10.00 o’clock. We spent the Sunday morning joking and playing with each other, then we went for lunch together and I started asking him when we could meet again. He looked at me a little embarrassed and then he told me: “There’s one thing I didn’t tell you, I’m engaged!” I felt very uncomfortable and I told him: “But how is it? You have a boyfriend and you don’t tell me?” He replied: “You didn’t understand, I have a girlfriend …”

I told him that there was something strange according to me because he didn’t seem to me a straight guy looking for distraction, he told me: “I know I’m gay, I was fine with you and I would always stay with you but I cannot, because I have a girlfriend for years and now she is part of my family and I think that in a year at most we will get married” I looked at him with a perplexed air and I asked how the sex went with the girl and he replied: “Well, somehow it works, she never noticed anything but when I do it I think about something else, I’m not straight, there’s nothing to do, if it were for me I would never have sex with a woman, when I’m there, anyway, it works all the same but it is something that I do because I must do it, and then with her I could never speak clearly because she would feel betrayed, now we are in front of everyone a very solid couple and she believes it too, I don’t think I could avoid marrying her, by now I’m too far ahead with that story, she’s a good girl but I’m not interested in girls.”

I spent the rest of the afternoon trying to get him to think, but he felt trapped and had threw in the towel, he felt resigned to being a good husband at home and a good gay, maybe with me, some Saturday nights at the hotel. He told me that he had to break away from me, that I put him in crisis, I put him in front of the responsibility of his choices but that now the choices were made and there would be no chance to go back. We took the train and we went back home.

He disappeared for two weeks, he didn’t answer to the emails or the phone, then he contacted me again, we met one afternoon and he seemed really shattered. This is what he told me:

“Here they are just caging me, I cannot stay out of it, it’s all a trap, I had to go with her for eight days in a resort abroad, all paid for by my parents! And it was a shocking thing, she was happy, I could not stand her anymore but she was the victim and I had to console her, I was forced to make love with her because otherwise she ended up in depression. She really didn’t understand anything. I thought to speak clearly but I didn’t dare to imagine her reaction and then I pretended to be worried about work reasons. I thought that in the resort we would be alone and instead her parents made us the nice surprise that they were there also them! I cannot stand it anymore! I have to go out of the cage but I don’t know how. If I said I’m gay, nobody would believe it …

“What could be done to resolve the situation? In the end we thought something that could work, he would go a couple of times to an andrologist, perhaps the first time accompanied by the girl, accusing pain in the testicles and then after the second examination it should have said that he had to do the seminogram and a few days after that the result was that he could not have children, anyway, as a gay, he would certainly not have had children from another woman.

He didn’t want to accept the whole script, it seemed to him a real hoax, but then he was aware that the alternative would be the wedding therefore he came to a milder attitude. He didn’t know whether to speak clearly with his parents, but when your parents don’t even realize that you are not well with your girlfriend and force you to go on holiday with her … to speak clearly would mean just throwing open a pot without knowing what’s inside.

In the end we have agreed all the details and all the preparatory speeches. I realize that, seen from the outside, all this seems like an expedient of the lowest alloy to avoid the coming out, but a coming out in a situation like that would have been ruinous. To realize the whole project, a low level staging, it is true, but perhaps the least traumatic solution, it took more than a month.

When he went to the girl and told her that he could not have children, the girl expected it and the recitation of the great pain had been well prepared by her family and ended with the promise to remain friends, but he wanted to return all gifts and said he preferred to permanently close an experience that had ended up being traumatic.

I summarized the whole story in a few lines but it was very demanding, stressful and even risky because, if our trick had been detected, for him it would have been a disaster, but it went well! From the following Saturday we started our meetings in the hotel in the nearby city and I think our story will continue. We’re all right together and we’re planning to change both our jobs and to move both of us to that city, away from prying eyes, he too thinks that coming out, even just in the family, is certainly inopportune. Among other things, his parents know nothing about the andrologist’s story and think that their son, the poor guy, will never marry because he cannot have children and it is good that they continue to think so.

Project, don’t look bad at me, the coming out in certain situations is not really thinkable. So we rest assured and the girl can make her life with someone who really wants her and his parents have put their soul in peace and at least there is no gossip about homosexuality because the story is all straight! Could I send him to the marriage slaughter? No! Should he expose himself to a destructive coming out? No! At least, so they are all happy and we first of all.

Let me have your news soon.
David

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-a-gay-guy-goes-to-the-andrologist

A GIRL IN LOVE WITH A GAY GUY

I too have been was with a guy who has literally destroyed my life, finally after years of profound solitude (many have consoled me but no one really understood me, not having lived the same things in first person), only in this forum finally I found someone who knows how these situations can be painful. Even my ex, while never having loved me, obsessively sought me when I left him, and I came back with him many times, he had declared his feeling to me too early, he used to kiss me mechanically … it’s all so familiar, so similar to what a had read many times on the forum!

My ex is also very misogynist. He writes very angry postings on Facebook in which he says that in his life he has been only with some bitches, for him a woman is worth the other, and when I asked him reassurance about us he seemed amused not giving me any answer, he was sorry for my “affective rants”, he said I was stupid because I was a girl, a girl who doesn’t like being contradicted, and he would have liked me to be more military, harder, a real shitty woman, solar and strong. Moreover, he compared me to all the women he had known, even to my friends, to my sister, letting me understand that they were better than me.

Then when I tried to leave him he threw himself at my feet and said he had a sickness inside, which led him to treat people badly … then when I “got back” with him, he immediately became another time the usual asshole. When we had sex it seemed like a funeral march, it was something that he did without joy, and I didn’t know what he was thinking about, but he never hugged me warmly, never pampered if not with embarrassment and a sort of disgust, superficial caresses, then he immediately he used to snort saying I was a person accustomed to ask for too much. He liked, however, to receive cuddles, like a child, with the excuse that he was sick. I felt like I was his mother or a whore to be despised, depending on the moments. You cannot understand, or perhaps only you who read here, you can understand that suffering, that absurdity I have experienced.

But I do not think I’m a victim because I partly knew he was gay. I was aware of some things, the relationship he had with his best friend and his anaffectiveness, the relationship he had with his mother (this is perhaps a common place), the total disinterest he had for intimacy with me … It was as if he was missing * that thing *, and I don’t want to say the penis, but the instinct to be close to me emotionally and physically, which then becomes a body in the sexual act. He is fixed with girls, he always speaks with this tone of … I don’t know, of blame, horror, it is not clear why he runs behind them, according to what he tells about it, and in general girls refuse even his friendship because he is not able to enter their sympathies, treating them as badly as he usually does.

All this is despite his being a handsome guy, that pushes initially all girls to speak to him and become curious about him (he is also clever and witty, original and creative) … Looking back I know that he loves me very much, he simply doesn’t accept me for what I’m: a woman. He used to say that I was playing the role of the female while I behaved in an absolutely natural way. He used to watch me cry in silence as if he could not connect with my pain. Sometimes he was kind, he was not a monster, let’s be clear. But he couldn’t be a loving guy. He used to show me affection only in the scene in which he was ill and I took care of him as a mother-nurse, and he in the grip of his “depression” (which I suspect is his repression) pretended to be dying and asked me to soothe his pain with my magical power or something, he asked me to feel his heart, to be near him … all the things he missed in normal moments, only that they were totally disconnected from the sexual dimension. His sexuality was all sadism in practice.

I talked a lot about him because what we lived still hurts. We were very close, symbiotic, and we really loved each other, even if we hurt ourselves and it is better for both of us to stay away (these situations are so absurd and contradictory) … I didn’t say anything about myself because I was with him even though I felt he was gay. But I want to say it because other people can pass through here and they could benefit from my experience as it happened to me.

So, first of all, I could not be sure that he was gay. He used to throw me many clues but he never told me it clearly and openly. Nor could he do it, because the problem between us was just that, he could not open up with me, there was place only to hurt me to vent his pain and to lie (even to himself), tell me stories, sell me his fictitious personality … there was no space neither to listen to me nor to truly express himself. If he is really gay, I don’t think he has accepted it at all, and if he has accepted it he denies it with all his strength.

Second: having a guy probably homosexual but who can have sex with women and has really sex with you from a certain point of view is a good move if you’re an insecure girl, because you know he cannot betray you. And also because (sorry if I use a stereotype but in my case it was so) with a gay guy you can have a friendship that with a straight guy is impossible to have. I remember that I really appreciated his patience, his passion for psychology, his gossip, his eye for aesthetics, the way we could talk for hours about how our male friends were, how they reasoned and so on … then when we wanted to, we also had sex, and I didn’t feel tested by him, because I knew he was thinking more than anything to himself while we were doing it, it was the affection towards me and his need to “unload” that motivated him, not my desirability as a woman … The price I paid for this “comfortable” relationship was the frustration of my real need, which is not only physical but also emotional and psychological. I had much more desire than him, and he began to say that I was nymphomaniac, he went around saying that even after we had separated.

So it was the fault of both of us for me. I knew, deeply, that I wasn’t really in love with him. He missed that light in the eyes that seemed to me to be the most important characteristic of the man I dreamed to have beside me. But when I tried to get away he was chasing me in every way. When I changed the phone number, he wrote to my sister, to my best friends, insistently, to know where I was … He didn’t respect my very simple request to be left alone to get over our story. When he thought I had canceled him he tried to come back with me. Perhaps he didn’t want to lose me because I had been more or less the only one who had seen him, albeit consciously deluding herself, like the straight man he wanted at all costs to be. Losing me meant losing the person who most believed in his artificial personality, the one he spent and still spends his life to sculpt and finish, full of artificial justifications about why he’s not normal, he is not like the other guys, he cannot stay in touch with people or women, because women are stupid and have to be more like men …

There is perhaps a third reason, sweet-bitter, that pushed me to stay with him, apart from the fear of a true love and the fear of be wrong about him, and it’s a mixture of voyeurism and pity. Something morbid, a curiosity almost like a reporter. He seemed to me and still seems, a striking case of how the repression can completely destroy the life of an individual.

Standing near to him I lived a kind of perverse reality show in which I expected at every step that he betrayed himself and that it turned out that he was gay with irrefutable proofs, or better I expected him to confess it clearly. Although perhaps I would have preferred to sadistically catch him on the fact, as in a yellow. I cannot really blame him for his feeling himself cornered and with his back to the wall or for his continuous questioning the sincerity of my love, because there was also a dark element in it, and I knew it. It seemed to me also my legitimate compensation for all the things I endured from him.

With the time I accepted the situation, I understood that it was not me who was wrong, that I cannot change him, that he is like that with everyone and not only with me because he suffers deeply. Sometimes I would like to help him, but I don’t know how to do it and I tend to say that maybe because I was his only girl and he was my most important guy in spite of everything … maybe I’m the last person who can help him. And this is very sorry for me because nobody has ever been so close to me, and for him it’s substantially the same … Now I hope the future leads me to a normal story, with a guy who wants to kiss his girlfriend, to cuddle her, to stay well together with her, and all this keeping calm and living quietly. It seems impossible to me because I’m very cynical about it, partly because of traumas related to my parents. I’m afraid that if I met a good guy I wouldn’t be attracted to him. But okay, I’ll see what happens. I needed to tell how much I felt understood on this forum. Thanks again to the OP and to all the others. Greetings.

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FALLING IN LOVE WITH A MARRIED GUY – A VERY COMPLICATED SITUATION

I’m 31 years old, I was born and raised in Italy but I lived abroad for many years. I have always been “different” from others, grown up between adults and with a keen interest in being with adults. I figured out that I was gay during high school but the acceptance phase was long and hard. I started declaring myself 5-6 years ago with my female best friend and with my male best friend. I told my parents everything last December, but they had already guessed it. I’m proud of how my dad took it, the person I was most afraid of. Being told by my father that now I would have been even more appreciated, made me feel good.

In more than 31 years I only had a “story” with a guy, 5 years ago. The thing was over after two months for the distance and perhaps because he, just out of a relationship, was not ready to start a new one with me. I had been in love with him, I felt destroyed but then, slowly, I reconstructed a group of friends. I met guys / men, I attended people to understand if and how I liked them. But apart from the infatuations, I have never met a person who, in addition to reciprocating certain feelings, was also compatible with me.

Until August of last year, when after two and a half years of peace of mind, a guy writes to me on Planet Romeo. He was a few years younger than me, intriguing, we began to chat, cuddling each other. It has to be noted that, despite I said I was not looking for sex, he continued to write: a true rarity. 4 days later we go on Whatsapp and the same day he tells me that he was married. I still remember the scene: I was in a coffee break, I felt stunned.

I asked him what he was doing in a chat like Planet Romeo and if his wife knew. Of course his wife was totally unaware. He apologized, he thought he had already told me it the first night we had chatted, and tells me that he understands that I don’t want to meet him anymore. But voice inside me told me to meet him. I wanted to understand, only understand. We continue to write to each other nonstop, I from my office (empty for summer holidays), he from his workplace. The next day we decide to see each other spontaneously and I invite him to have a coffee at my house. The moment he enters my house and extends his hand to introduce himself, I feel a lump in my throat and my stomach closes. Beyond the fact that already in the picture I had understood that he was my type, seeing him live was love at first sight.

The strange thing is that I, generally very nervous, after not even 2 minutes, was calm and happy with him on the balcony drinking coffee as if we were friends of a lifetime. I felt so comfortable, as if we had always known each other.

Because of the heat, we move into the living room, in the cool, and we keep talking. He tells me about him, born and raised abroad, in this country for a couple of years and married for just over two years with a girl from here known in his country years before. He tells me that he has problems with his wife (too little sex in his opinion) and that he has many doubts, that he doesn’t feel integrated, that his linguistic knowledge is not enough to work in his field, blablabla. He asks me about me, I tell my story. We never stop talking a second … we have so many things to say … everything is so natural … and an hour later he tries to kiss me, I reject him and say that I have to reflect on what I’m doing. He understands and does not insist.

He tells me that at the time of the university he had thoughts for the guys, but he never tried (perhaps for fear, or I don’t know what for) and that these thoughts never ceased, that he masturbates while watching gay porn and feels guilty … and tells me that, when he got married, he promised to abandon and repress this side of his life because of which he feels guilty. A few months before meeting me, however, he cannot take it anymore and decides to meet a man with whom to have sex. He says that before he met me he had met three men in all and he had sex with them, cheating on his wife. He says that sex with men is exciting but at the same time it disgusts him, and he reiterates how the feelings of guilt are destroying him … he loves his wife, he wouldn’t want to betray her … but he needs guys, although he continues to repeat that sex with men doesn’t convince him. And I tell him that, perhaps, this is due to his non-acceptance. Strange situation, I think … then he says he is 80% happy and tells many other things. We say goodbye, I accompany him to the door and he goes home.

No more than 10 minutes after, climbed on the train, he writes to me: “where have you been for all my life? I have eternally been looking for someone like you.” In the following days we continue to write so … uninterruptedly … in the evening we say goodnight and good morning in the morning. Crazy things. He writes to me that he would like to see me again … and, please, don’t ask me why, I accept.

4 days later we meet again at my house, we talk, drink coffee, we kiss and start cuddling (not sex). We also spend 4-5 hours, after my work, talking, cooking together, having dinner, etc. I repeat, crazy things. When the train is about move, from the train itself he writes to me that I am his ideal man, he wonders how I can be single and above all he tells me that 4-5 years before he would have had no doubts about me, but that at that time he was 100% hetero and shy.

And he asks me if, in a future life, he can have a chance to be together with me. I’m clearly upset … you can imagine the emotions of hear such things from the person you spontaneously like better … Even if then he tells me that, unfortunately, in this constellation someone would have suffered (his wife). The story goes on … or better starts … we meet every time we can, I go to work, he changes the shifts to be with me at my house … we go together to the cinema … go walking in the evening … his wife, unaware of everything, works until late. On Saturdays, very often, he has to work … so we get to see each other 4-5 times a week and we often spend Saturday nights together, either by him at work or at my house … After work we walk together towards the station … and then it happens that one evening he takes me by hand and in the station he kisses me. The first time I kiss a man in public. And he, married, keeps on going hand in hand with me with the risk of being seen by someone.

My family has always made me feel loved, but the sensations I start feeling are special … this feeling light … desired, etc. … Two weeks later we end up in bed … and there we understand that the harmony is total. I sincerely hoped that he would turn out to be a landslide in bed. At least I would have had a reason to close … to forget him … All the story really scared me. We go on … in September I have two weeks of vacation … he insists to take me to the airport … and a week later he comes to pick me up and spends his Saturday with me. Obviously he had told his wife a lot of fake stories. He feels uncomfortable because he had lied and also because he is fine with me.

That Saturday he tells me that in the previous week, while I was at a sea site, he thought that maybe he can live without me … but anyway he was always with me. Even during the second week of vacation, while I was at my house, we keep on hearing and calling each other. And then he writes to me that he misses me, etc. … I come back home … the story goes on. He asks me if I’m in love, I do not answer him. But he understands. He says it’s not right for me, that I deserve a man who is 100% available, not one with problems like him. But we are in touch every day … messages … he often comes for lunch in the neighborhood where I work … even just to spend an hour with me … and to shake my hand under the table, at the restaurant.

Speaking of his wife, he says that he loves her but that sex with her is not enough … that they do it once a week if all goes well. He says he has talked to her and that she only needs no more that. He often cries when we see each other. When we make love he’s in seventh heaven … we talk, we laugh … there’s total involvement. He says that with me it’s something else, not just for the performance but for the harmony, for what you feel … trust … the bond. Anyway … then he cries … he feels guilty … and tells me that he loves her … etc. .. But then we do it another time. When he leaves my house, I never understand how he feels.

Then he goes on vacation, at the end of October, with her. For three weeks we stay in touch very little because there is no field. When he comes back he closes the story with me. He says he cannot take it anymore, he says it’s not right for me nor for her. He says that he got married and made her a promise … he tells me that he loves her … that sex with her is not bad … that having sex with me doesn’t convince him … And here, for the first time I burst: I explain to him that when you are really happy there is no reason to look for sex elsewhere and especially not with the opposite sex. I tell him that maybe he didn’t realize it … but what binds us is not a friendship …

I didn’t tell him it’s love … I told him that in my opinion he feels a great affection for his wife … but that this is different from love, and that, always in my opinion, he suffers from internalized homophobia. He asks me what the solution would be and I reply that, the best thing would be to take a break with her, to stay alone (even without seeing me) and understand what he really wants. He tells me it’s not true … he tells me that he started going with men because he felt not integrated, without a work and depressed. And I tell him that if all men betrayed their wife with other men for the above reasons, we would no longer have happy marriages. The usual things … I explained that he must look for the reasons, talk to a psychologist, etc. I explained to him how it was for me … and that in any case, the fact of feeling the need to stay / go with men, combined with homo-affectivity, has its roots in his own sexuality.

I was patient … a lot, but hearing from him that sex with his wife was not bad … and then the opposite … well, it made me go out of my mind, even if in that moment I didn’t realize clearly why. I spent a horrible week. Empty, discouraged, sad, alone. The following Saturday I wanted to see him again to talk to him and in the end we made “peace” if we can say so. And we started seeing each other again and again, etc. For the first time, it seemed to me that he understood that my goal was not that he left his wife … but that he was calm, happy, fulfilled. Everything went on normally … we saw each other when we could, I went to get him at work. As for the afternoons, his wife had changed jobs and now worked with office hours, he could no longer lie and so, to see him, I choose the free day of the week coinciding with his. He came to me at home, he reached me in bed, he woke me, we spent time together … he helped me with the work at home … as a couple that we were really not. I was the lover in love with a man of another person.

Then, at the end of November, he gets his much-hoped job … and the same evening, celebrating with me (and not with his wife), he tells me that he loves me … in his own way … but he loves me. I was happy, I was beginning to hope to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Then I spent the Christmas holidays with my parents … we stayed in touch normally … I didn’t tell him that I had done my coming out so as not to burden him with further worries and when I got back we met … and there, crying, I he tells me that he has decided to close … that he wants to save his marriage … that he made a promise to his wife … that he is fine with me, but neither sex nor life with a man convince him … etc. … a bitter blow. We cried for two hours .. and he told me that he doesn’t want to lose me … that he loves me, that I’m important etc. He didn’t leave me for a minute. He said he had not yet made a choice … but that he could not take it anymore. He even told me that he had to be careful not to mention me too much … otherwise his wife would have asked questions. He tells me he cannot give me what I want from him, but that I’m very important in his life and he doesn’t want to lose me … he wants to keep hearing me.

But in the meantime he attended chats on the net … and I saw him online many times… I thought: he wants to save his marriage … but he’s always chatting with other men and maybe he also meets them! Well, do you know what? We continued with good morning, goodnight … uninterrupted messages … we conducted a relationship without sex, because I was afraid of the HIV, … just like before.

He assured me that he saw only a friend in me … then, he was constantly looking for me and wanted to see me regularly … he came regularly to my house for dinner … when his wife was out to dinner with her friends … I told him more than once that I was sorry … but even if he didn’t admit it, we were not friends … because two friends don’t hug each other … don’t give each other kisses on the neck … and above all they don’t have an erection with every hug. When I complained it he said I was exaggerating … My friends said he was an egoist and I had to close. But I, in order not to lose him, accepted everything.

At a certain point he tells me that his wife would like to meet me … and that everything would be easier for him if she knew me … because he wanted to integrate me in his life … And I tell him that I would never do such a thing, that seamed to me disrespectful and disgusting. And what was the reason? If she had known me, he would not have to answer any more questions … He asked me it, even though I had never asked too many questions about his wife and had never spoken badly about her, not even once.

Nevertheless, I asked myself what kind of wife doesn’t want to have sex with her husband at that age and above all I asked myself how she didn’t notice her husband’s moods. Perhaps it was because I realize quickly if something / someone doesn’t go but I had the impression that his was a marriage already finished. I carried on the thing feeling uncomfortable, not sleeping at night, not being able to concentrate on the studies … then I tried to discuss it with him … and he cried a lot, etc. … until in the end of March we went to walk in the mountains and once arrived at the top I extracted the thermos of coffee and a pack of biscuits … and he told me: “Why are you doing all this? Why do you bring all the things that I like?” I told him that I do it for all the people I love (which is absolutely true). And he said: “But do you know that ours is only a friendship?” … and I didn’t say anything. I just thought: “You tell me it all the time … but only because it makes you feel good”.

Then I proposed to go for dinner after the walk and he told me: “And how would you see this dinner? As a romantic meeting or as a dinner with friends?” And there I really lost patience … we walked for more than an hour in silence, then we sat on a bench … always in silence. And after ten minutes he says to me: “Don’t you have anything to say?” And I let myself explode: I told him that his behavior was unjust, that he didn’t make any choice in order not to have to take a position but in fact he was with her (heterosexuality of the facade) and nevertheless continued to get all the attentions on my part (homosexuality).

I reiterated the fact that it was not right, either for me or for her … and that I could not take it anymore. My life was not peaceful. The chat topic too came out. I told him that I knew he was always online, etc. … and he swore to me that he had not attended other men after me but that, as I knew, he could not stand without that part. And I screamed in face of him that it would have been right to let his wife go because she had every right to live with a man who really loved her. My friends said I couldn’t really know if he really loved her. And I repeated that when there is love, certain things are not to be done. And that if he were in love with his wife, he wouldn’t be so attached to me as a lover. Also because I consider myself able to recognize the difference between love and well-being.

I patiently explained to him that I thought it was right not to see /hear each other anymore. I advised him to consult a psychologist (we had been talking about it for months) and to solve his problems. And then I added that, if his problems were resolved in my direction, my door would be always open to him, but as a partner, not as a friend. Well … I have not seen him since the beginning of April. The same evening he wrote me a myriad of messages … he left me vocal messages asking me to think again about it … crying … that it was not right to close a friendship … telling me that I was not behaving well.

He proposed to me to let me heard even less, in order not to stress me too much, etc. … I didn’t listen to him, I held on. We have not seen each other since. He looks for me regularly … once a week he writes … he misses me, he concludes the messages with a big hug … every excuse is good to write. I sometimes answer politely but in a detached way.

Clearly his wife is still unaware of everything … but so … why tell her strange things… he is straight!! His perpetual searching for me makes me sick … but it gives me the confirmation that he doesn’t accept my choice and that he cannot be without me. In a message he wrote to me that he had represses himself so as not to write to me. On Monday I received a message from him: “I went by the psychologist and told him about you. I cried a lot. I miss you a lot. I hope your phrase in your Whatsapp profile doesn’t refer to me, otherwise I don’t understand why you don’t make yourself heard. I hope you’re better and that I can go to the concert with you in June.”

In March he had bought tickets for a concert to go there together in June. I replied to him with a long message … reiterating the fact that I hope the psychologist can help him find himself and live lightly … explaining that I feel not at ease, that I miss him more than ever but staying close is not a viable solution. As for the concert, I told him that I cannot give him what he needs … as he cannot give it to me. And that he can go there with other friends or with his wife. His answer was “dumb!”. The next day I wrote to him, just to know if he had slept. I did it because I needed it. I know what it means to go to the psychologist the first time and I felt compelled to write to him. He replied that he is well, that he had dreamed so much and that he feels alone … he misses me, but he cannot expect anything more from me. And still a hug …

Sorry if I was verbose … this is my story … at the moment, despite five months have passed since January, I feel really uncomfortable. I’m in love more than ever and I think he realized that maybe I’m more important than what he wanted to believe. But as my best friend says: “My dear, the facts, only the facts matter. And he’s there with her, not here with you!” My opinion is that he is gay, repressed, with a strong homophobia and that he still has to make his acceptance path. I believe that in life we need balls and courage to follow our heart and I think he is not ready yet. I don’t know how to behave anymore. I don’t know how to stop this story and go further. The idea of seeing other men makes me vomit. And the fact that I cannot have the love of my life (because I know that we are exactly this one for the other), it tears me apart.

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-falling-in-love-with-a-married-guy-a-very-complicated-situation

A MARRIED GAY GUY WHO HAS NOT REPENTED

Greetings to all, “I have not just registered in the forum”, I was undecided whether to introduce myself, partly because I don’t know if my story will be useful for the discussion. My not being repentant for the choices made could mislead some who are looking for their identity.

I immediately say that I have a certain age, I am married and with children, but since adolescence I have always had fantasies and even homosexual practices. But I made a choice of life that I don’t want to question now. The fact that I have read many of the interventions of this forum, which I judge serious and above all commendable in protecting the privacy of users, also highlights that I still have an interest in these issues and my for fear of not being completely in peace with myself.

I think I have an ideal family life, a wife who loves me and children I’m proud of. All this, however, has been achieved without my having ever been able to distract myself from my drives which are clearly in the homosexual sense. Even after the wedding I had some falls, I considered them “betrayals”, yes serious, but in my opinion not very different from those of straight people. I don’t know whether to consider myself a true homosexual, but the more I analyze my life and the more I believe to be gay. But I also think with different attitudes from experiences of others.

I never thought of being able to share the couple life with a man and I was mostly driven by sexual attraction, I don’t know if I “fell in love” with another guy, perhaps at a young age, perhaps with attentions directed towards those who could not create a relationship with me, inside me however the thing has always been confused. What is certain is that I have always refused to recognize him and have tried to live a seemingly normal hetero life. In short, my homosexuality is the one that is called dystonic homosexuality.

You have to consider that on me the religious element has had a decisive influence. I have understood from various interventions that this is normally considered negative. But faith for me is an irrepressible fact, full of doubts and contradictions, but I cannot and don’t want to eliminate it from my life. I never said anything to my wife. I realize that complete sincerity in a relationship is essential but I have never succeeded, perhaps at the beginning I made some attempts, but exactly as I read in some posts of the forum, often this by the partner of the other sex is not understood or the partner doesn’t even want to consider it.

Now, after a long time, for the great affection that I have towards my wife, never, never I could have let her be aware of a situation that she surely couldn’t have understood. I try to accept myself this way, maybe I have not been completely honest, but sometimes other priorities are included in the scale of priorities. The textbook on homosexuality has greatly struck me positively, especially when the topic of married gays is dealt with. I think I have found a balance as indicated in the first option, that is with fantasies and, sometimes, with porn sites that I’m a bit ashamed of but nevertheless I consider the lesser evil.

I feel fragile and willing to give in to temptation but I resign myself to what I’m. I understand that maybe my experience cannot be taken as an example, I may have managed to realize myself in a way that can be judged not appropriate to the full acceptance of how we are but, as I have repeatedly heard, every case is separate and I frankly I cannot repent of my family choice. Perhaps today with the most widespread and above all clearer and more scientific means of information on this topic, I would have done differently, but it went like this and no verification of other hypotheses is anymore possible. Hello everyone with my most sincere sympathy.

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-a-married-gay-guy-who-has-not-repented