EVOLUTION OF AN INTERGENERATIONAL GAY COUPLE

Hi Project,

I think I’m more or less your age, or maybe I’m a bit older than you, I read some of your very melancholic post. You did a lot, you could have done something wrong, but only those who do nothing make no mistakes. I have never had online sites, such things are not things for me, but somehow I have also spent some very melancholic periods and I have thought several times I had done everything wrong, as you say, that I “have done damage” but then I have realized that it was not like that.

I would like to tell you a story of a relationship, as you call it, intergenerational and I tell you why. Looking for things that talk about intergenerational relationships I came across the forum, I discovered your manual Being Gay and I read the chapter dealing with these things and I was very impressed. However there is an aspect that is practically lacking at all and is that of the evolution of these relationships over time, you speak of the inevitable anticipated widowhood, and you’re right, however, you forget the fact that before you get to that point there are years to live, there is not only the phase of falling in love and that of widowhood but there is a phase of progressive maturation of the relationship and it is precisely on this that I would like to draw your attention, perhaps to exchange with you some ideas and to induce you to expand the discussion on “Being Gay”. This is not a reproach but you, Project, tend to see things with the eye of the younger partner, but a manual dealing with being gay can make sense even for an elder.

I start from my personal experience, which follows quite well the progresses of these relationships as you have outlined them. Between me and Leo (this is not his true name, but he would have liked to be called so) there is a huge age difference, 38 years. We met when he still had to get out of the school, I was an old man even then, and I was counting down on when I would retire, I had my friends, obviously I had never had sexual relations with anyone and I had practically archived the problem. My peers did not like me very much, the guys between the ages of 20 and 30 fascinated me but I strongly perceived the generational gap, I practically lived only for my job. I had some friends, work colleagues, actually just a couple, I esteemed them a lot, but they didn’t know anything about me, they had children and grandchildren and sure not enough time to spend for me.

My story with Leo started in an absolutely unexpected way, I was in the car and I stopped at a traffic light when I heard a bang. Leo had crashed with his bicycle into my car, he had also made a little damage on my car but with the blow he had fallen to the ground. I went down and pulled him up from the ground and sat him in the car. He told me that he would pay me all the damage, but I told him: “Meanwhile let’s go to the hospital, let’s see if there’s something broken” He admitted that the fault had been his, but my damage was really minimal. I loaded the bike in the car and went to the hospital, he asked me not to say that it was a car accident but only that he had fallen from the bicycle, when he arrived at the hospital he thanked me, asked me the phone number and gave me his and told me he would call me for the damage. Then he entered the emergency room. I waited for him outside.

He came out after almost 5 hours, I asked him if he had traumas or something broken and he said that there X-rays showed nothing. I told him that I would have liked to take him home, he started talking about the damage and I told him it was a minimal thing and that an extra scratch on my car (an old car) wouldn’t change anything. In the car he asked me if I knew someone who could fix his bicycle and I told him I’d have found someone able to fix the bicycle and I would have brought it back to him. He didn’t know whether to accept, then he told me: “Ok! Thank you.”

Three days later I bought a new bicycle, because it was impossible to fix the old one and I brought it to him. When he saw the new bicycle he immediately told me he couldn’t pay it and I told him that he did not have to pay anything, I thought he would be happy and instead he told me. “No, I cannot pay for it and I don’t want a gift like that.” I felt uncomfortable and didn’t know what to say. I just replied: “Ok, sorry, I didn’t really want to offend.” I reloaded the bike in the car and left. I thought it was all over. After almost a month he calls me, he asks me how much I had paid the bike, I tell him how much, he replies: “Ok, if you like, take it to the pyramid when you can” I took the bike to the pyramid and he gave me the money and told me: “You made me work for a month, but maybe it was worth it.” After the story of the bike we started to hear from each other often.

Then the sexual phase began very gradually, which lasted a little over three years, in practice, I feared that sex could destabilize our relationship, on the contrary I learned from him how much it can be important when it is something really desired by both partners. Then the thing went to fade, it was not completely lost and here began my scruples and the idea that Leo was wasting time because of me. During the university period he lived his stories, he spoke very little to me about such things but none of those stories ended up supplanting our story.

He was in crisis with his family, he spent critical moments with his studies and he has been very close to the idea of abandoning everything, he lost a lot of time, especially at the beginning, then he started to lengthen his pace, he concluded very well his studies and now works in a field that keeps him in tension, in short, he works and earns money but the work is certainly not his realization. He doesn’t have a partner, he has many friends and occasionally, when he can, he goes to visit them in various parts of Italy. Between us we are in a phase that I would call familiar, the relationship between us has nothing to do with a classic gay couple relationship, we are like father and son and it is really a beautiful thing.

Among us sex is a possibility left theoretically open, which in some rare cases is realized, but increasingly rarely and is in practice only a way that he uses to make me understand that he doesn’t feel repulsed by me, but now certainly sex is no longer what sustains our relationship. We often talk on the phone, we also tell each other the deepest melancholies, when he sends me text messages, sometimes (not always) he concludes with “I love you!” And it is not just an expression of courtesy. Now Leo is 32 and I’m really an old man, I turned 70 recently, Leo is quiet, he calls me, he comes to see me, he doesn’t have a stable boyfriend but I see him serene. I can’t deny that I still have a thousand scruples because I think that perhaps I have moved him away from a couple life with a peer and I could even have ruined his life, not by my choice but because I offered him an easy affective reference.

He has never seen things this way, what he tells me about it is more or less this: “I didn’t feel bound by you, I tried to build other stories and a couple of times even with guys I was in love with, but then it did not work with them, while so many years have passed with you and nothing has ever collapsed. You didn’t stop me, you haven’t conditioned me!” In essence, now, Leo considers me a father, when we go around together people always take him for my son. I can say that I like this phase of our relationship very much. It is suitable for my age, it is not a renunciation, it is not at all, I feel in the right dimension. I see him often but not every day, because we don’t live together and also because he must have its freedom, because he could find tomorrow the boyfriend he hasn’t found up until now (and in a sense I hope it happens),
but I feel him close to me all the same, we no longer ask each other questions, everything is spontaneous, there is no longer the risk of making mistakes.

Of course we are no longer a couple for a long time but we love each other. Leo, who is always very serious and almost professional with others, is affectionate, tender, I would say also happy when he is with me, and he seems to me quite serene and I think he feels completely at ease. Seeing Leo serene is a dream that has come true, maybe I would like better to see him happy with a guy who loves him. I think that now I can calmly leave this world too, because I see happy the only guy I really loved and who loved me. I believe that an intergenerational relationship that arrives at this stage gives the best of itself. There will also be widowhood, of course I hope as late as possible, but I somehow realized my dream of being father and Leo found a dad who loves him unconditionally! In practice we have built a family. I am grateful to Leo because he gave a radical change to my life and led me to be a happy man.

Since he was a guy, Leo has sought love and this has not only happened with me. Often people have tried to ask him or rather to impose him some conditions, to create obligations beforehand, to bring Leo back to the more or less classic rules of the couple and it all ended before starting because you cannot take him on a leash, he was born free, he cannot depend on anyone, to love you he needs to feel free. Now I feel a bit like an old dad and I start trusting him more than me, if I have to make a serious decision I consult with him, and he, instead of immediately giving me an answer, makes me speak to understand what I would do, and then, in practice, he always tells me that I’m right. Only on one thing he is a despot, on my health, I spontaneously tend to stay away from the doctors and take a somewhat fatalistic attitude, that’s why he books my visits and takes me to the doctors. I know that these are the attentions usually reserved to an old man, but to an old beloved man. I’ve never fixed the scratch that Leo made with his bicycle on the trunk of my car, when I see that scratch I smile and I feel like a happy old dad.

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If you want, you can participate in the discussion of this post open on the Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-evolution-of-an-intergenerational-gay-couple

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THE SYNOD ON THE FAMILY AND THE GAY MOUSE

This article is dedicated to the examination of the discussion and of the Final Report of the recently concluded Extraordinary Synod on the family, regarding the theme of the relationship between church and homosexuals. I published it in Italian on the Gay Project sites on October 19, 2014.

I must dutifully acknowledge Pope Francis that he has allowed all those involved to follow the work of the Synod, allowing the publication of the documents prepared during the Synod itself, as well as the voting results on the final deliberations. It is a criterion of transparency that on such delicate issues is a must, but it should not be forgotten that the publicity of the documents is also aimed at avoiding gossip both inside and outside the Vatican.

I invite the reader to arm himself with good will to follow the path of the Synod with me from the beginning.

After a considerable work of consultation and coordination of the indications emerging from the individual local churches, in view of the Synod, the Instrumentum laboris “The pastoral challenges of the family in the context of evangelization” was published by the Vatican, which in Part II, Chapter III, letter B, concerning unions between persons of the same sex, is expressed as follows:
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b) Concerning Unions of Persons of the Same Sex

Civil Recognition

110. On unions of persons of the same sex, the responses of the bishops’ conferences refer to Church teaching. “There are absolutely no grounds for considering homosexual unions to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God’s plan for marriage and family. […] Nonetheless, according to the teaching of the Church, men and women with homosexual tendencies ‘must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided’” (CDF, Considerations regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions between Homosexual Persons, 4). The responses indicate that the recognition in civil law of unions between persons of the same sex largely depends on the socio-cultural, religious and political context. In this regard, the episcopal conferences describe three instances: the first exists when repressive and punitive measures are taken in reaction to the phenomenon of homosexuality in all its aspects, especially when the public manifestation of homosexuality is prohibited by civil law. Some responses indicate that, in this context, the Church provides different forms of spiritual care for single, homosexual people who seek the Church’s assistance.

111. A second context is one where the phenomenon of homosexuality is fluid. Homosexual behavior is not punished, but simply tolerated until it becomes visible or public. In this context, legislation on civil unions between persons of the same sex does not usually exist. In political circles, especially in the West, however, the increasing tendency is to adopt laws providing for registered partnerships or so-called “marriage” between persons of the same sex. People argue non-discrimination to give support to this idea, an approach which is perceived by believers and a good part of the public, in central and eastern Europe, as an imposition by a political and foreign culture.

112. The responses describe a third context, one where States have introduced legislation recognizing civil unions or so-called “marriages” between homosexual persons. In some countries, the situation reflects a real redefining of marriage, where the couple is viewed only in legal terms, with such references as “equal rights” and “non-discrimination” without any thought to a constructive dialogue in the matter based on the deeper anthropological issues involved and the centrality of the integral well-being of the human person, especially the integral well-being of the children in these unions. When legal equality is given to heterosexual and homosexual marriage, the State often allows the adoption of children (biological children of either partner or children born through artificial fertilization). Such is the case, particularly in English-speaking countries and central Europe.

An evaluation of the particular Churches

113. Every bishops’ conference voiced opposition to “redefining” marriage between a man and a woman through the introduction of legislation permitting a union between two people of the same sex. The episcopal conferences amply demonstrate that they are trying to find a balance between the Church’s teaching on the family and a respectful, non-judgmental attitude towards people living in such unions. On the whole, the extreme reactions to these unions, whether compromising or uncompromising, do not seem to have facilitated the development of an effective pastoral programme which is consistent with the Magisterium and compassionate towards the persons concerned.

114. A factor which clearly has an impact on the Church’s pastoral care and one which complicates the search for a balanced attitude in this situation is the promotion of a gender ideology. In some places, this ideology tends to exert its influence even at the elementary level, spreading a mentality which, intending to eliminate homophobia, proposes, in fact, to undermine sexual identity.

115. Episcopal conferences supply a variety of information on unions between persons of the same sex. In countries where legislation exists on civil unions, many of the faithful express themselves in favour of a respectful and non-judgmental attitude towards these people and a ministry which seeks to accept them. This does not mean, however, that the faithful give equal status to heterosexual marriage and civil unions between persons of the same sex. Some responses and observations voice a concern that the Church’s acceptance of people in such unions could be construed as recognition of their union.
Some Pastoral Guidelines

116. When considering the possibility of a ministry to these people, a distinction must be made between those who have made a personal, and often painful, choice and live that choice discreetly so as not to give scandal to others, and those whose behaviour promotes and actively — often aggressively — calls attention to it. Many conferences emphasize that, due to the fact that these unions are a relatively recent phenomenon, no pastoral programs exist in their regard. Others admit a certain unease at the challenge of accepting these people with a merciful spirit and, at the same time, holding to the moral teaching of the Church, all the while attempting to provide appropriate pastoral care which takes every aspect of the person into consideration. Some responses recommend not using phrases such as “gay,” “lesbian” or “homosexual” to define a person’s identity.

117. Many responses and observations call for theological study in dialogue with the human sciences to develop a multi-faceted look at the phenomenon of homosexuality. Others recommend collaborating with specific entities, e.g., the Pontifical Academy of the Social Sciences and the Pontifical Academy for Life, in thoroughly examining the anthropological and theological aspects of human sexuality and the sexual difference between man and woman in order to address the issue of gender ideology.

118. The great challenge will be to develop a ministry which can maintain the proper balance between accepting persons in a spirit of compassion and gradually guiding them to authentic human and Christian maturity. In this regard, some conferences refer to certain organizations as successful models for such a ministry.

119. Sex education in families and educational institutions is an increasingly urgent challenge, especially in countries where the State tends to propose in schools a one-sided view and a gender ideology. Formation programmes ought to be established in schools or parish communities which offer young people an adequate idea of Christian and emotional maturity to allow them to face even the phenomenon of homosexuality. At the same time, the observations show that there is still no consensus in the Church on the specific way of receiving persons in these unions. The first step would be a slow process of gathering information and distinguishing criteria of discernment for not only ministers and pastoral workers but also groups and ecclesial movements.

The transmission of the Faith to children in same sex unions

120. The responses are clearly opposed to legislation which would allow the adoption of children by persons in a same-sex union, because they see a risk to the integral good of the child, who has the right to have a mother and father, as pointed out recently by Pope Francis (cf. Address to Members of the International Catholic Child Bureau (BICE), 11 April 2014). However, when people living in such unions request a child’s baptism, almost all the responses emphasize that the child must be received with the same care, tenderness and concern which is given to other children. Many responses indicate that it would be helpful to receive more concrete pastoral directives in these situations. Clearly, the Church has the duty to ascertain the actual elements involved in transmitting the faith to the child. Should a reasonable doubt exist in the capability of persons in a same sex union to instruct the child in the Christian faith, proper support is to be secured in the same manner as for any other couple seeking the baptism of their children. In this regard, other people in their family and social surroundings could also provide assistance. In these cases, the pastor is carefully to oversee the preparation for the possible baptism of the child, with particular attention given to the choice of the godfather and godmother.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/synod/…ia_en.html
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I don’t intend to comment on this text by entering into the merits, I limit myself just to underline the breadth of expectations that could arise from it in so many faithful and not.

After the beginning of the Synod, the Relator General, Card. Péter Erdő, Archbishop of Esztergom-Budapest, presents his “Relatio post disceptationem” on October 13, 2014, a document that is a kind of draft of the final document, which expresses itself in this way regarding homosexuality:

Welcome homosexual people

50. Homosexual persons have talents and qualities to offer to the Christian community: can we welcome these people, guaranteeing them an area of fraternity in our communities? Often they wish to meet a Church that is a welcoming home for them. Can our communities be able to accept it and evaluate their sexual orientation without compromising the Catholic doctrine on family and marriage?

51. The homosexual question challenges us in a serious reflection on how to develop realistic paths of emotional growth and human and evangelical maturity by integrating the sexual dimension: it therefore presents itself as an important educational challenge. The Church also affirms that unions between persons of the same sex cannot be equated with marriage between men and women. It is not even acceptable that pressures are exerted on the attitude of pastors or that international organizations can condition financial aid to the introduction of regulations inspired by gender ideology.

52. Without denying the moral problems connected to homosexual unions it is noted that there are cases in which mutual support until the sacrifice is a precious support for the life of the partners. Furthermore, the Church has special attention towards children living with same-sex couples, reiterating that the needs and rights of children should always be placed first.
http://press.vatican.va/content/salastam…03037.html (My translation)
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As we can see, the “Relatio post disceptationem” very strongly restricts the scope of the “Instrumentum laboris”, but also contains some elements that do not speak of openness but of respect at least towards homosexual persons. From the point of view of a lay man who sees things from the outside, however, with the “Relatio post disceptationem”, the mountain of expectations has given birth to a skimpy little mouse. The press, however, welcomes the Relatio as a great opening of the church towards homosexuals. However skimpy, the gay mouse is around the Vatican but the austere Synod fathers are not intimidated by that mouse and armed with their age-old wisdom, are ready to catch it before it escapes officially from the Synod hall. Here the minor circles sharpen their weapons:

This is the expression of the French-language circle “A”, of which the Eminent Card. Robert SARAH is moderator and S.E. Mons. François-Xavier DUMORTIER, S.J. is speaker:

“As for the reception of homosexual persons, it seems clear to us that the Church, following the image of Christ the Good Shepherd (John 10, 11-18) has always wanted to welcome people who knock on his door, a door open to all, people that must be received with respect, compassion and recognizing the dignity of each one. To accompany a person pastorally doesn’t mean to validate either a form of sexuality or a form of life.”[1]

The French-language Circle B, whose moderator is Cardinal Em. Card. Christoph SCHÖNBORN, O.P. and Speaker S.E. Mons. André LÉONARD, expresses itself as follows:

“5. We reiterated our respect and our welcoming towards homosexual people and we denounced the unjust and often violent discrimination that they suffered and still suffer, sometimes, even in the Church, alas! But this doesn’t mean that the Church must legitimize homosexual practices, much less recognize, as some states do, a so-called homosexual “marriage”. On the contrary, we denounce all the maneuvers of some international organizations to impose, through financial blackmail, to the poor countries some laws that establish the so-called homosexual “marriage”. [2]

The English Language Circle B having as a Moderator the Card. Wilfrid Fox NAPIER, O.F.M. and as a Speaker S.E. Mons. Diarmuid MARTIN so expresses itself:

“On the theme of the pastoral care of people with homosexual tendencies, the group observed that the Church must continue to promote the revealed nature of marriage as always between a man and a woman united throughout life in a life-giving and faithful communion.
The group encouraged pastors and parishes to take care of people with the same sex attraction, providing for them in the family of the Church, always protecting their dignity as children of God, created in his image. Within the Church, they should find a home where they can listen, with everyone else, to the call of Jesus to follow him in fidelity to the truth, to receive His grace to do so, and His mercy when they are wrong.”[3]

The Report of the Italian Language Circle “A”, having as its moderator the Cardinal Fernando FILONI and as Speaker S.E Mons. Edoardo MENICHELLI, expressed itself as follows:

“With regard to the pastoral care of homosexual persons, we have directed ourselves towards the proposal of a single statement in which it was emphasized both a commitment to proximity oriented to evangelization and the style of the Church, as an open house, enhancing the gifts, the good will and the sincere path of each one. It has been reaffirmed that unions between persons of the same sex cannot be equated with marriage between men and women, expressing the concern to safeguard the rights of children who must grow harmoniously with the tenderness of their father and mother.”

The Report of the Italian Language Circle C having for Moderator S.E. Mons. Angelo MASSAFRA, O.F.M. and for Speaker, Fr. Manuel Jesús ARROBA CONDE, C.M.F., expresses itself as follows:

“In this regard, the fathers pointed out some more specific aspects to enrich the proposals formulated in the text: an express mention on family movements; a special number [statement] on the adoptions; an invitation to study new presences in the educational field; a return to the texts of the instrumentum laboris about homosexual unions; an appeal to institutions to promote policies in favor of the family.”

The Report of the Spanish Language Circle A with the Moderator Card. Francisco ROBLES ORTEGA and the Speaker S.E. Mons. Luis Augusto CASTRO QUIROGA, I.M.C. expresses itself as follows:

“As for n. 50, it has been observed that we should not talk about homosexuals almost as if homosexuality were a part of their ontological being, but of people with homosexual tendencies. It was requested to replace the text of this number with the following:. “Sexuality that makes us exist as a human being as a male and a female is an essential value in anthropology and Christian theology. It makes us exist reciprocally not in indistinction but in complementarity … even people with homosexual tendencies need guidance and support to help them grow in faith and to know God’s plan for them.”[4]

The report of the Spanish Language Club “B” having as a Moderator Card. Lluís MARTÍNEZ SISTACH and as Speker S.E. Msgr. Rodolfo VALENZUELA NÚÑEZ so expresses its opinion on the Relatio post dissertationem:

“We believe that there is a lack of emphasis on important issues such as abortion, the attacks against life, the large phenomenon of adoption, the decisions taken by spouses in conscience, as well as greater clarity on the issue of homosexuality. “[5]
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Evidently, the gay mouse has sown panic among the Synodal Fathers, but they have finally managed to capture it.

The following is the paragraph of the “Relatio Synodi”, that is, of the final document of the extraordinary synod on the family, concerning the relationship between the church and the homosexuals:

Pastoral Attention towards Persons with Homosexual Tendencies

55. Some families have members who have a homosexual tendency. In this regard, the synod fathers asked themselves what pastoral attention might be appropriate for them in accordance with Church teaching: “There are absolutely no grounds for considering homosexual unions to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God’s plan for marriage and family.” Nevertheless, men and women with a homosexual tendency ought to be received with respect and sensitivity. “Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided” (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Considerations Regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions Between Homosexual Persons, 4).

56. Exerting pressure in this regard on the Pastors of the Church is totally unacceptable: it is equally unacceptable for international organizations to link their financial assistance to poorer countries with the introduction of laws that establish “marriage” between persons of the same sex.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/synod/…ia_en.html

It should be emphasized that point 55 was approved without the qualified majority of 2/3 but with a simple majority, however very strong and very close to 2/3, of 118 in favor and 62 against.

As is evident, the mouse was happily devoured before being able to leave the Synod hall. The initial “instrumentum laboris” was reduced to the material repetition of the contents of the “Considerations about the projects of legal recognition of unions between homosexual persons” signed by Josepf Ratzinger, then Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, in June 2003.

Frankly I don’t understand the homosexual Catholics who hope to find a respectful reception by the church. Other Christian churches have taken on decidedly more evangelical positions.

Just today, 18 October 2014, the Mayor of Rome, Ignazio Marino, ordered to register 16 homosexual marriages celebrated abroad in the official marriage register of Rome.

Thus L’Avvenire (the newspaper of the Italian Episcopal Conference) of October 18 begins its comment on the fact: “”An ideological choice, which certifies an unprecedented institutional affront” based on a “mystification supported at the media and political level”: so the editorial of Angelo Zema, on Roma Sette, the magazine of the diocese of Rome on newsstands on Sunday with Avvenire, defines the transcription of marriages celebrated abroad by some homosexual couples operated by the mayor of “Roma Capitale”, Ignazio Marino, in the municipal registers. The editorial speaks of “illegitimate” choices in a “context with a Hollywood tone” and “with a clear demagogic flavor”.

When the Synod was over and the gay little mouse was no more wandering around the Vatican, the CEI (Italian Episcopal Conference) immediately warned another reason for alarm: there are many gay mice, too many gay mice, just outside the Vatican walls! Fortunately, the world goes his way, even if the church goes somewhere else.
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[1] “Concernant l’accueil des personnes homosexuelles, the nous semble clair que l’Eglise, à l’image du Christ Bon Pasteur (Jn 10,11-18), a toujours voulu accueillir les personnes here frappent à sa porte, porte ouverte à tous, here sont à accueillir avec respect, compassion et dans la reconnaissance de la dignité de chacun. Accompagner pastoralement une personne ne signifie valider ni une forma de sexualité ni une forme de vie.”

[2] “5. Nous avons redit notre respect et notre accueil aux personnes homosexuelles et avons dénoncé les discriminations injustes et parfois violentes qu’elles ont subies et subissent encore parfois, y compris dans l’Église, hélas! Mais cela ne signifie pas que l’Église doive légitimer les pratiques homosexuelles et encore moins reconnaître, in the font certains Ettats, a soi-disant «mariage» homosexuel. Au contraire, nous dénonçons toutes les manœuvres de certaines international organizations visant à imposer, par voie de chantage financier, aux pays pauvres des législations instituant un soi-disant “mariage” homosexuel.”

[3] “On the subject of the pastoral care of the family, the group noted that the Church must continue to promote the revealed nature of marriage as always between one man and one woman united in lifelong, life-giving, and faithful communion.
The group encouraged pastoral care for children with same sex attraction, providing protection in the family of the Church. They say they are in the same place, they can be found in the church, they hear the call of Jesus to follow Him in fidelity to the truth. His mercy when they fail.”

[4] “Pasando at n.50, if you have observado que no if debe hablar de personas homosexuales cases como el homosexualismo fuese part of su ser ontológico, sino de personas tendencias homosexuales. If solicitó sustituir el texto de este número por el siguiente: “the sexualidad que nos hace existir como humanidad en masculino y the femenino, es a valor irrenunciable en la antropología y en the theología cristiana. Nos hace ser los unos para with los otros no en la indistinción until en la complementariedad … Las personas with tendencias homosexuales tambien necesitan de acogida y acompañamiento que les ayude a crecer en la fe y a conocer el plan de Dios para ellos.”

[5] “Consideramos que faltaron en el mismo énfasis sobre temas importantes como el aborto, los atentados contra la vida, el amplio fenómeno de la adopción, las decision-making en conciencia de los exposos, así como a mayor claridad sobre el theme de la homosexualidad .”

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-the-synod-on-the-family-and-the-gay-mouse

A GAY COUPLE IN A TERRIBLE ORDEAL

Hi Project,
I was really pleased to be able to talk with you last night, I absolutely needed it and I enthusiastically welcome the idea of summarizing yesterday’s speech into an email that you can then enter in the forum.

I am 31 years old, in my life I have always been convinced of having a thousand problems, from the idea that I would never find a guy who loved me at the idea of not being physically and psychologically up to a serious partner and many other things. For those things I felt bad, I felt like a nothingness and I thought I had experienced the worst, the most problematic situations of life, then I met a guy and slowly, gradually, we began to love each other. I don’t know what brought us to get together but it happened.

For a long time we couldn’t live together because we didn’t have the chance, in theory we were only two good friends, but in reality we were a couple. We didn’t see each other every day, and it happened that maybe in a week we saw each other only once, but when we were together we felt really well, we learned to love each other, to understand each other, to trust each other.

I thought I had found my serenity and surely he too thought it, but suddenly he started to accuse some disorders, he went to the doctor who sent him to the specialist and he did some very thorough instrumental examinations and it became clear that my boyfriend had a very serious health problem. I don’t go into details, but it was really a bolt from the blue.

At the moment he has quite bearable disturbances, but it will not always be that way and we have been told it, now he has begun his path of illness, which, apart from the gravity of the thing in itself, will create great problems even with work, because he is employee of a large private company and when he will have to go to the hospital for therapy he will be absent from work and so he will risk dismissal. Fortunately for me I have a good job and if it were to serve I could give him a helping hand.

At the moment he has not said anything about the illness to his parents, who are elderly, have a lot of health problems and live with him, he doesn’t want to alarm them, but sooner or later they will realize that something is wrong.

My parents know my boyfriend, who has been to my house many times with them, but they thought he was just a friend of mine. Some time ago, my father, who is 70 years old, looked at me in the eye and said: “I see you’re not quiet, what’s wrong?” And I told him everything, that I was gay and that my boyfriend was sick and he hugged me and told me: “On me and your mother, you can always count and for anything.” I felt a little comforted but I’d have preferred that it was my boyfriend to feel comforted, but he can’t even talk with his parents.

My father asked me about the hospital where my boyfriend goes, and about doctors who take care about him and he said they are serious people, he knows those environments because he too has had oncological problems, now under control.

I modified my working hours to be close to my boyfriend as much as possible, I accompany him to work and I go to take him back, I always accompany him to the hospital, the doctor who takes care about him has been told that we are a couple and didn’t make a grimace. My father at one point called Steven on the phone and Steven came to my house for lunch, it’s something quite usual for us, but this time my father told Steven something that he didn’t expect: “Louis told me everything and we (i.e. he and my mother) thought that you and Louis can feel more at ease enjoying your privacy in this apartment, I and my wife can go to a little house we have in the village nearby, which is only 15 kilometers from here, but your parents would remain alone and maybe they would take it badly, I don’t know … What do you think about?” Steven was puzzled and didn’t know what to say and I too, actually. He should have left his parents’ house and it seemed unrealistic. My father, given the perplexities, didn’t insist and said only: “The proposal is always valid, if you decide to put it into practice, it is done in two days at most”.

When I took Steven back to his house and we parted, he thought that if he had been with me in the same house he would have been calmer, even for the illness, because his parents knew nothing and in case of need they wouldn’t have known what to do. He told me: “I have to try and get my parents to accept it, but they also have my sister and they wouldn’t be alone anyway … let’s see what happens.” After not even a week, my parents went to live in the village and Steven moved to my home. He was happy to be with me, it was also a way to realize a dream, but at the base of everything there was a terrible melancholy. I saw Steven smiling and seemingly quiet but I was worried about the passage of time, everything seemed to me ephemeral and frighteningly unstable.

At the moment the situation is this, Steven goes to the hospital for checks every two months, the doctors don’t talk too much, they decide what to do step by step, I bring inside me a terrible anguish and I think about what Steven is experiencing, we speak about everything, but not about the disease, which means that he is trying to remove it and not to be too much conditioned by it.

I feel embarrassed especially for sex, I swear, Project, I never know how to behave, before we had never had problems, it all came spontaneously, now to launch the idea seems inappropriate, but in the end this is also a stupid problem. He occasionally takes the initiative, we rarely get to sex, in most cases we just smile and move on. It’s different for cuddles, now there’s a lot more tenderness than before, a little to compensate for the decrease in sexuality and mainly, I think, because now we have our intimacy, we have our own home and we can nestle one against the other to see the television or just to feel that we are there and that we love each other.

Project, I would never have thought of having to face a situation like this, which puts me to the test in a violently emotional way. I am terrified of the future, doctors don’t encourage but don’t even discourage, talk about the phase of therapy towards which you are going but never talk about long-term prospects. I don’t ask questions when we go to the hospital together. Steven asks some questions and I try to memorize the doctor’s answers and to put together the pieces of the puzzle to understand something more. We have decided not to read Wikipedia and let the doctors do their work.

Sometimes in the morning I wake up next to Steven and I start to pray for Steven, and I have never been religious, but now I find comfort in the ideas of religion. Of this I cannot talk with Stephen, not so much because he is radically rationalist and unbeliever, but because for him it would be like a further confirmation that I consider his health problem insurmountable. He too, in my opinion, doesn’t see any favorable prospects at all, but he never talks about it. Sometimes, when we hug, I wonder what he is thinking but obviously he doesn’t say anything. Those moments of silence are very intense, our way of shaking hands is already very eloquent. This too is being gay and I had never imagined it.

Now I realize how absurd the problems I had a few years ago were, now I took a bath of reality that put me in touch with human nature in its fragility. I’m learning very hard lessons, I only know that I love Steven, and I will never leave him alone, I don’t want to think of a future without Steven, this idea is terrible for me and makes me cry, because I see Steven who calmly shakes my hand, I hear his voice a little hesitant and I also see him smile, it is he who tries not to make me think and to give me courage.

Now we are at this point, Project, and no one knows what is to come. I feel profoundly melancholic, I feel like a feather carried by the wind. My parents try to be present to calm the atmosphere a little, they treat Steven as if he were a son of theirs, this consoles a little, but the underlying terrible melancholy remains. I love Steven also because he has a dignity even in this situation, and doesn’t close himself in himself, on the contrary he accepts to share his anxieties with me, without too many words but with a lot of love. I stop here, Project, because I can’t go on.
Louis

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INTERGENERATIONAL GAY RELATIONSHIPS WITHOUT SCHEMES

Hi Project,
I read the chapter on the intergenerational relationships of the manual Being Gay and I was amazed first of all because you have treated the subject, which is generally never taken seriously even by gays, and then because what I read corresponds quite well to my experience, in the sense that I saw in many documents quoted on the manual the same doubts and the same attitudes that I had myself, and then I noticed that here and there scattered in the forum, I can see traces of intergenerational relationships in some way similar to what I experienced and I’m living even now.

I am 56 years old, my name is Peter, I’m not yet old and all in all, physically, I’m still quite handsome (even if I should not be the one who says it), I’m sporty, I do sports regularly, I’m attentive to nutrition and until today I have not had serious illnesses, this pushes me to consider myself somehow still young. Of course, ten years ago I was already a mature man, but at that time I was really almost a young man, people believed that I was much younger than I really was, and at the age of 46 I met Dario (fancy name) who was 19. I, gay, or rather a gay who had put aside the idea of finding a mate, because for me being gay, at that time, it meant just finding a partner, anyway I had almost stopped looking around.

One evening I was invited to a graduation party, I go there because I knew the guy who had graduated. While I was there Dario arrives. Saying that he was beautiful it is reductive, I had never seen a guy like him, with a smile so bright, tall, blond, with blue eyes. When I saw him I thought only one thing: “What a beautiful guy!” I didn’t even think of approaching him, it was obvious that he was very young, I was only sorry to be too old. I did everything to distract myself and think of something else. I have not danced, because I never dance, I chatted a bit with the guy who had graduated, then I sat to observe.

Dario too didn’t dance, he didn’t court girls, it was the girls who were courting him, the guys didn’t even really consider him. At one point he looks me straight in the eyes, I feel like a very strong twinge, he leaves the group of girls and comes to sit next to me and tells me: “I know you’re bored! I see it!” I just smile a bit, then we exchange a few words, he notices that I’m almost embarrassed and introduces himself, I do the same, we talk a few more minutes of this and that, then he pulls out of the pocket a piece of paper, he writes his name on it and his cell phone number and passes it to me, then asks me: “Can I have yours?” I say to him: “Of course!” but I must have said it with the light in the eyes, and he replies with a wonderful smile, then returns to the small group of girls, who complain that they have been abandoned, he says that he had to say hello to an old friend (me), and returns to his previous conversations. Shortly before midnight he sits down next to me, asks me if I have a car, I say yes and he asks if I can take him home, I say to him: “Of course!” And this time too I must have told it with a lot of enthusiasm. He answers me with his usual smile. He greets his friends who thought he would stay with them until late, then we leave.

He lives far away, but not too much, 20 minutes later we are at our destination. During the trip at the beginning we talk about banalities, then, when we are almost at the destination, out of the blue he asks me: “Are you gay?” I feel my face burn with shame and embarrassment then I answer: “Yes! … ” before I can add anything else, he says: “Me too!” But he adds that it is late and that he must go home but that he will call me soon. He greets me without even shaking hands and beckons me to leave immediately. I perform.

As I go back to my house I feel dazed, I would never (and I say never) thought that something like this could happen: a 19-year-old guy who out of the blue asks a man 46 years old if he is gay and asks him it because a few minutes of dialogue were enough for him to understand it. Of course my fantasy starts to run at high speed, but then I say to myself: “What are you thinking about! Stop there! Dario is a boy!” At home I do everything not to think about him, but I feel distraught because he is not just a guy, a lot of girls run after him and I think also guys, but he confronts me with that sharp question : “Are you gay?” … and he is gay too …. Why does he ask me it? He can have all the guys he wants … why does he tell me it? Also his friends would have given him the passage in the car but he had asked for it no one else than me.

The day after he doesn’t call me, and I feel in bad shape, I had waited for that phone call but it hadn’t arrived, I was really depressed, completely on the ground, I felt like a fool and felt deluded. After midnight he calls me and says: “I didn’t call you to see if you would have called me but you didn’t call me! You probably don’t care about me!” We talked almost until dawn, it was evident that there was a total complicity between us and not because we were two gays. He told me that when he went to visit one of his friends he was fascinated by this friend’s father and he described him to me, but in practice he didn’t describe that man, it was me the one he was describing, and added: “But he was hetero …” And after a few seconds he added: “But you are not!” Now the speech was clear. We began to see each other every day, without sex, we talked a lot, we went to go shopping, we used to eat a sandwich together, he was happy, I thought that in that way, I mean without sex, we could have gone on forever, but I was wrong. He saw farther than me and in a few months we got to have sex.

His involvement was total, my somehow reticent, I had begun to love him because between us there was not only sex, we talked very much, he was looking for a comparison but he had his ideas in mind and had a very strong personality. We told each other our lives even in the most intimate aspects, my life was basically a void, there was so much imagination but nothing real, while his was much more complicated, things that I never imagined and that have conditioned him a lot.

I felt I was not the best for him, but this seemed to him to be quite relative, he fell in love with young guys several times and I often encouraged him, but those stories didn’t last long and finally we came together apparently just for reasons of sex but actually because between us there was a form of deep symbiosis. Sometimes he called me in the middle of the night and told me to go to his house, I went there, he went down into the street and we stayed in the car, he started crying, told me about his disappointments, then we made love, but in the end he repented and felt dirty, he wasn’t angry with me but with himself, but he needed to be accepted, loved, he also told me of disturbing aspects of his personality and he did it thinking that I would go away but I not only didn’t leave but I thought he really was trusting me without reservation. Now Dario is almost 30 years old, after a course of studies initially not simple, conditioned mainly by emotionality, he is now finishing his PhD in a very particular scientific discipline and is really appreciated by his colleagues and so he also regained a lot of self-esteem, which has always been his weak point.

He recently lived a long and serious love affair with a guy he was deeply in love with, but in the end that guy dumped him and he felt very bad. During that time we saw each other a lot less, now we have started seeing each other again almost every week, on Sunday, we spend the day together, we talk a lot and we also do a bit of sex but everything is very natural, we don’t ask ourselves too many questions. With me he is really unleashed, which I don’t think he does with the guys he is in love with, it is as if with those guys he especially sought the affective side and with me the sexual one, also because those guys are looking for him especially for sex while I I’m looking for his proximity and human warmth, and even for sex, of course, but sex has never been my obsession. When I’m with him I try to limit the contacts to non-risky behaviors or to those at very low risk, he initially seemed puzzled and used to do a little scene before sex because he felt braked, but then he ended up accepting limitations rather willingly, or at least without too many problems. He doesn’t have a boyfriend but I think he has other people (few and always the same) with whom he has sex from time to time. He says he doesn’t love emotional relationships and only seeks sex from me, but in fact, after 10 years, we continue to see each other and when we are together we are really free and happy at all levels. We know each other well both sexually and in personal history. I’ve never talked about this story with people I know, never at all, I live alone, so I don’t have problems with the family, I just have to be a bit careful my gossipy neighbors, because it happens that Dario comes to my house even late at night and leaves the next morning.

Basically, about this story I cannot talk with anyone, I mean talking directly about myself, but it happened to me once, only once, to hear a talk on this subject made by guys I think were gay, and I was very embittered, they pronounced ferocious judgments, rulings without appeal without understanding absolutely nothing, they had their gay couple model in mind and everything that was not on that track they considered it pathological. With Dario I don’t live anything like the gay couple relationship they have in mind, but I live a relationship that makes sense, I don’t feel frustrated at all nor did I feel jealous when he had a boyfriend, between us there is also sex, but I think it has above all the sense of the confirmation of the fact that there is an affective relationship between us of which we never speak, but perhaps it is better, because it is not the words that count. I would not want anything different from what I receive from him.

This is the relationship between us, but it has been working for 10 years now, it is not a fairy tales story, but frankly I wouldn’t change it with anything in the world. I think of him a thousand times a day and I don’t think only of sex but I think above all of his successes, his self-esteem, his dignity, the fact that he built himself by himself, that he never enslaved himself to anyone or anything, he never felt fascinated by money, he has never hurt anyone. And then, if I think he trusts me (and on the other hand I trust him the same way) I feel proud. I think that our relationship is really a way to love each other, a way that is absolutely out of scheme but it’s a way. The thing I have always admired most in him is his clear speech, not using too many words and saying even brutally what he thinks. In practice we have never quarreled, we said goodbye dozens of times but then we forgot it because the sense of being together was strong beyond any convention.
In conclusion, Project, what do you think about?
Peter62

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A GAY GUY GOES TO THE ANDROLOGIST

Hi Project,

I am a closeted thirty-year-old gay guy who lives in a very homophobic town in the rich north-east of Italy. I would like to tell you my story and ask you what you think.

Just a nod on my life until a couple of years ago, at the beginning I used to look for a real love and I never found it, maybe because I looked for it in the wrong places and with the wrong methods, then I started to go not so much for subtlety (Quiet! I have always used all the methods of prevention.)

At the age of 27, I have to say, I was a drifter of sex, in a year I had collected almost a dozen stories, which obviously were not serious things, but in the end they were even frustrating. I would have liked a normal guy who loved me and I would have gladly put the final point to all the whirlwind of my research on the apps.

One day just through an app a guy contacts me, he says he is 26 years old, we talk a bit, he’s polite, seems one not obsessed with sex, he proposes me to meet each other, I think it’s too early and I try to postpone, I expect him to disappear but it doesn’t happen. He asks me for photos but I don’t give them to him, but we keep on talking even in the following days, we talk about everything, even about sex but without overdoing it and always in a very polite way.

After three weeks of online contacts he again asks me to meet him, this time I say yes but since I don’t want problems of any kind, we agree to meet in another city and spend Saturday and Sunday together (I don’t work on Saturday). I decide to go by train so as not to be identifiable even from the license plate of the car. Note, Project, that I had never even seen a picture of him and he had never seen one of me. We meet at the station at 9.00 in the morning. I tell my parents that I have to go on a mission for two days (things like that happened other times).

I do not know who I will meet, but I feel very excited, there is something that tells me that it will not be the usual meeting “escape and flee”. When I get on the train I realize I don’t have condoms with me, but I think I can buy them there too and that they might not be useless. In the place of the appointment he is already there waiting for me, the recognition signal works (a certain newspaper under his right arm). It seems a nice guy, indeed very nice. We leave the luggage at the station depot and we go around, it’s a beautiful sunny morning.

It’s all radically different from my previous encounters, we don’t talk about sex, rather we feel a certain embarrassment, we have breakfast together, we often exchange smiles, he’s a very sweet guy, I would like to know something more about him but asking questions seems inappropriate. He knows the city, even if it is not his city and has already prepared a whole project of things to do and places to go.

I perceived his presence, there were many silences, then I asked him if he felt embarrassed and he replied: “Before seeing you, while I was waiting for you! but not now! Not at all now! And you?” “I … well I’m just fine, no problem.” Then we began to joke, to tell each other jokes. He doesn’t tell sexual jokes and uses a very clean language. We go to lunch together in a restaurant, the climate is very relaxed, peaceful, pleasant.

We walk until evening, we have dinner together, then it’s time to go to the hotel, he says: “Do you mind if we take two single rooms?” I say no, but that request cools my enthusiasm a lot. He is glad that I didn’t insist on taking a double room. We go to the hotel but there are no single rooms, he looks at me and tells me: “What can we do? Is it okay for a double room?” I spread my arms and make a sign that it’s okay too, since there’s no other way.

We enter the room, he is very embarrassed and tells me: “Now what do we do?” I tell him that I would like to have a bit of sex, I would really like it but I don’t have condoms with me and ask him if he has any, he tells me: no, but he adds that there are also the non-dangerous ways of having sex and that he especially likes them. The room is very well heated. Project, I spare you the details and I just tell you that I had never had sex like that with a guy, just mutual masturbation and a lot of physical intimacy, but it was something unique because I saw him involved in such a total way that I wouldn’t have imagined that it could even exist. It was just an exciting thing at levels I had never tried. At the end we fell asleep in each other’s arms.

In the morning we didn’t have time to repeat the experience because we had to leave the room before 10.00 o’clock. We spent the Sunday morning joking and playing with each other, then we went for lunch together and I started asking him when we could meet again. He looked at me a little embarrassed and then he told me: “There’s one thing I didn’t tell you, I’m engaged!” I felt very uncomfortable and I told him: “But how is it? You have a boyfriend and you don’t tell me?” He replied: “You didn’t understand, I have a girlfriend …”

I told him that there was something strange according to me because he didn’t seem to me a straight guy looking for distraction, he told me: “I know I’m gay, I was fine with you and I would always stay with you but I cannot, because I have a girlfriend for years and now she is part of my family and I think that in a year at most we will get married” I looked at him with a perplexed air and I asked how the sex went with the girl and he replied: “Well, somehow it works, she never noticed anything but when I do it I think about something else, I’m not straight, there’s nothing to do, if it were for me I would never have sex with a woman, when I’m there, anyway, it works all the same but it is something that I do because I must do it, and then with her I could never speak clearly because she would feel betrayed, now we are in front of everyone a very solid couple and she believes it too, I don’t think I could avoid marrying her, by now I’m too far ahead with that story, she’s a good girl but I’m not interested in girls.”

I spent the rest of the afternoon trying to get him to think, but he felt trapped and had threw in the towel, he felt resigned to being a good husband at home and a good gay, maybe with me, some Saturday nights at the hotel. He told me that he had to break away from me, that I put him in crisis, I put him in front of the responsibility of his choices but that now the choices were made and there would be no chance to go back. We took the train and we went back home.

He disappeared for two weeks, he didn’t answer to the emails or the phone, then he contacted me again, we met one afternoon and he seemed really shattered. This is what he told me:

“Here they are just caging me, I cannot stay out of it, it’s all a trap, I had to go with her for eight days in a resort abroad, all paid for by my parents! And it was a shocking thing, she was happy, I could not stand her anymore but she was the victim and I had to console her, I was forced to make love with her because otherwise she ended up in depression. She really didn’t understand anything. I thought to speak clearly but I didn’t dare to imagine her reaction and then I pretended to be worried about work reasons. I thought that in the resort we would be alone and instead her parents made us the nice surprise that they were there also them! I cannot stand it anymore! I have to go out of the cage but I don’t know how. If I said I’m gay, nobody would believe it …

“What could be done to resolve the situation? In the end we thought something that could work, he would go a couple of times to an andrologist, perhaps the first time accompanied by the girl, accusing pain in the testicles and then after the second examination it should have said that he had to do the seminogram and a few days after that the result was that he could not have children, anyway, as a gay, he would certainly not have had children from another woman.

He didn’t want to accept the whole script, it seemed to him a real hoax, but then he was aware that the alternative would be the wedding therefore he came to a milder attitude. He didn’t know whether to speak clearly with his parents, but when your parents don’t even realize that you are not well with your girlfriend and force you to go on holiday with her … to speak clearly would mean just throwing open a pot without knowing what’s inside.

In the end we have agreed all the details and all the preparatory speeches. I realize that, seen from the outside, all this seems like an expedient of the lowest alloy to avoid the coming out, but a coming out in a situation like that would have been ruinous. To realize the whole project, a low level staging, it is true, but perhaps the least traumatic solution, it took more than a month.

When he went to the girl and told her that he could not have children, the girl expected it and the recitation of the great pain had been well prepared by her family and ended with the promise to remain friends, but he wanted to return all gifts and said he preferred to permanently close an experience that had ended up being traumatic.

I summarized the whole story in a few lines but it was very demanding, stressful and even risky because, if our trick had been detected, for him it would have been a disaster, but it went well! From the following Saturday we started our meetings in the hotel in the nearby city and I think our story will continue. We’re all right together and we’re planning to change both our jobs and to move both of us to that city, away from prying eyes, he too thinks that coming out, even just in the family, is certainly inopportune. Among other things, his parents know nothing about the andrologist’s story and think that their son, the poor guy, will never marry because he cannot have children and it is good that they continue to think so.

Project, don’t look bad at me, the coming out in certain situations is not really thinkable. So we rest assured and the girl can make her life with someone who really wants her and his parents have put their soul in peace and at least there is no gossip about homosexuality because the story is all straight! Could I send him to the marriage slaughter? No! Should he expose himself to a destructive coming out? No! At least, so they are all happy and we first of all.

Let me have your news soon.
David

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A GIRL IN LOVE FOR TWO YEARS WITH A REPRESSED GAY GUY

I’m reluctantly going out from a story with a repressed guy man I loved and love so much still now, despite all the evil he did to me. I only left him for two weeks ago because I realized that he had never really loved me. I state that I’m 26 years old and he is 23.

We met at an internship, we exchanged the numbers and for commitments of both we met two months later to go for a coffee together. Well, that night we talked about this and that, nothing more.

Arrived home I got a text message in which he confessed me his love and he hoped that it was reciprocated. Honestly this thing made me think a lot, because it is unthinkable to love a person so quickly, especially because he had just come out of a story that had lasted two years. In the following days we started to meet, he seemed really a sweet and tender guy and so at the end I tied myself to him and after a week or so we got together, even though initially I was a little hesitant.

The first kiss was sought by him, and so even the first time we made love it was he the one who did the first step, let’s say it all happened fast enough.

After only 3 weeks, he wanted to take me to his parents because he cared very much about this thing, and so I went into his family.

The more time passed the more that sweet and good guy became a distant memory. He was a type who later was discovered to be a great liar, but of the chronic ones; even though he knew he had lied to me he managed to treat me badly and to tell me bad things because I had allowed myself to doubt him. I don’t tell you how many tears I have shed, he often and gladly treated me badly even when I worried about him.

For example, once we were at the beginning of our engagement, he had to take an exam at the university, so in the afternoon, as usual, I called him to know how it went. Immediately after seeing my text messages and my calls he turned off the phone, and I, desperate, not knowing what had happened and imagining that something had not gone well with the exam, I decided to go to his house to see how he was and to lift a little his spirits, in case.

I arrive behind the door and find him ready to go out with his roommate friend to buy something, I saw him quite serene, but seeing me he got angry, he took me aside and told me that he didn’t want to answer because he was nervous because he hadn’t taken the exam and I would never have to allow myself to go to his house without warning. I felt very bad of course, because instead of appreciating that his girlfriend was worried about him, he got angry, and I didn’t understand why he was calm when he was with that friend and became almost rancorous with me! He was always like that with me, if he was nervous about his business he treated me badly for no reason, he told me the worst things, while for his friends he was another person.

He didn’t even want me to approach his phone for a matter of privacy and so over time I discovered he was hiding many things from me: he messaged secretly with other girls.

I have always been very sincere with him and I wanted him to do the same, because if he didn’t do anything wrong he wouldn’t need to hide. At the beginning he was really a chronic liar, he even came to lie about his past. Over time and with various speeches that I did he changed enough.

On a sentimental level instead I found myself with a person completely different from what he was at the beginning. He was not the type who kissed me on my cheek, who hugged me tightly, who cuddled me, these things were not spontaneous for him. Even when he was kissing me I didn’t feel passion and complicity, sometimes I happened to have to interrupt a kiss because it seemed no more than a play consisting in rhythmically move the tongue! I felt that those kisses were detached, and he justified his mistakes and his behavior as “inexperience”.

Even on a sexual level things were not going very well, he was very selfish, and we made love quite rarely because he was always stressed and tired. Only once I allowed myself to say with all the sweetness “I want you” but the ruckus broke loose, he began to shout against me and tell me that I didn’t understand that he was tired and that I used to make love only for “venting”. I don’t tell you the tears! As usual I was the one who had to pay for everything and who felt bad about the discussions, he, on the contrary, was totally indifferent, and rather than clarifying he preferred to go for a good night’s sleep. I thought it was a matter of character. Once after a discussion in which I had finished crying because he had treated me badly, he had understood that he was wrong and in order to show himself really sorry (I saw him out of the corner of the eye) he licked his hand and then wetted his eyes. I was puzzled by that gesture, but I didn’t say anything to prevent him from being uncomfortable.

Returning to the previous speech, to prevent him from reacting badly, I waited for him to make the first step to make love, based on how he felt! The intercourse, however, wasn’t very satisfying, he liked better to be masturbated by me rather than to make love classically. In time, talking about it, however, I made it clear to him that it was more important for me to make love classically because it was much more beautiful and intimate in a couple in love and so he changed his behavior to please me.

I had always noticed that his penis was not hard enough and that came out almost nothing of sperm. Initially talking to him he wanted me to believe it could be a pathology. In time he confessed to me that he used to masturbate 5-6 times a day, and from there I understood why he almost never wanted to make love. This thing made me feel very ill, because I thought that it was I was who was the problem, to be ugly and undesirable, so much so that my boyfriend preferred to do it by himself.

He simply told me that he loved me and that this was his longtime habit. I remember sadly the first night on vacation where we had the chance to sleep in the double bed together. As soon as I approached him looking for cuddles he turned away and with a serious and annoyed tone told me: “turn the other way and sleep!”, I remained silent, I did not understand why he reacted like that, I did as he told me and without making him notice I cried a lot.

I come now to tell an episode that dates back to a period before his “crisis”. One afternoon he had to study with a very esteemed friend, his college mate. We should have met after they had finished studying. That evening for no apparent reason he treated me badly with an unprecedented wickedness, told me that I had ugly dark circles, that my hair was ugly and he also pointed out other physical defects with a face literally “disgusted”. Obviously I was felt badly, and my self-esteem was affected again.

A few weeks later (we are talking about a year ago) it was a period when he was very nervous and he treated me very badly, he came to tell me that we could not be together because he could not love me, and he would never have succeeded, that he didn’t want make fun of me anymore and delude me. He said that in his own way he had loved me, but that always, not only with me then, he couldn’t feel feelings for anyone, even in old stories, he couldn’t even cry (and now I understand why he thought I was pretending when I cried because of him).

He asks me not to abandon him and I, who was anyway very attached to him, understand his discomfort and decide to stay close to him to try to understand where his malaise was coming from. In this period I try to talk a lot and to find the origin of his discomfort. He manages to tell me that he, compared to the other guys, he has never felt much attraction for women, for example if he saw a girl in a miniskirt he felt nothing at all. He comes to hypothesize to be gay, and he seems more and more convinced of it to the point of wanting to stay forever on his own because he would never have accepted the truth.

His dream would have been to go away and live his life away from everyone.

In this period I am his confidant and try to pull out of him the toad he had inside. It also comes out that as a child he discovered sexuality with an uncle 9-10 years older. In this “game” he had to masturbate his uncle, and he did it for a while … he didn’t tell me more. However I try to reassure him and try to minimize everything by saying that anyway they are experiences that can happen when sexuality is not yet developed and doesn’t mean that for this he is gay. I was convinced that maybe he was becoming obsessed by the idea of being gay, and that anyhow he was not.

When he told me this, it was as if he felt a bit of resentment towards this uncle, as if his uncle had taken advantage of him who at the time was a boy, somehow an easy prey. But in reality he loves this uncle (I too know this uncle), he loves him very much and vice versa, this uncle loves him very much. He has always considered him a good person … for him he is his best uncle!

Once become aware of such thing and seeing his discomfort I propose to go together with to a psychologist but in the end he is never ready to go, always postpones until he ends up saying that he doesn’t need it.

In the meantime he, convinced that we cannot go back together, for my own sake, pushes me to go out with other guys and stay only friends with him, and slowly he moves away more and more. At the end I decide to go out with a friend with whom there had been something in the past, even to test his reaction. Starting from this episode he approached me again telling me that he loved me, that he had only had a bad time and that he wanted to care about me. Shortly thereafter, after 3 months of “friendship”, a little naively perhaps, because I was too much in love with him, I believe him and we come back together.

Things with him are not going very well, he continues to be nervous and stressed for no apparent reason, the exams went great, he was finishing all in time, there were only 2 small easy exams to overcome and he was one step away from graduation. Secretly he began to smoke because of anxiety, and in his life he had never smoked! Even with me things were not good, on a sexual level I was not looking for a lot, and every time we made love he lose the erection, and sometimes even blamed me because he said he saw me absent and it was not true at all!

Just two months after our returning together, he falls again into crisis, we are in late July, last year, and he once again come to tell me that he doesn’t love me, and never will, that the fault is not mine but he doesn’t feel feelings for anyone; he leaves me this time for two and a half months, in August, the first month, he sent me messages telling me that he loved me, that he was wrong and that he wanted to see me again, but he never did anything concrete to see me again.

In September and mid-October it disappears completely and afterwards he goes back to show himself sending me a lot of text messages and I, tired and still hurt, I call him and ask him to leave me in peace after all the evil he did to me.

He arrives up to tell me that he has been a month with another girl, and punctually like always, also because he saw me agitated, because it seemed that I was the problem, he starts to totally denies what he had just said perhaps for fear of losing me, but I don’t believe him.

I find him one morning behind the door with a bouquet of flowers and my heart still weak could not say no! He told me that he had only left because he was stressed out by the thesis but that he always loved me, it was nonsense but the heart sometimes doesn’t want to see certain things and I believed him! He told me that during this period he did nothing and told me that he had been with a girl for a month just to know if I was engaged with someone else (the reality is that he had disappeared also with text messages for a month so I’m well aware that the story he told me is just a lie). Honestly I think he could do it because, not feeling anything for anybody, according to his thought, one girl or other doesn’t matter at all, the important thing is to appear heterosexual, especially if it is a dear friend of his the one who introduces him to the girls in question … all easy girls!

Things immediately went wrong, even the first time we did it as soon as we got back together his erection faded and his penis became soft quite immediately and so all the other times, he didn’t have a good (hard) erection. I didn’t feel in him the desire to have sex with me, as I have never felt it in two years of our story. Many times I told him that I had the impression that he mechanically made love, and he punctually got mad at it! Lately he told me that those caresses, those kisses and those cuddles he did to me, which he never had done before, were a play, were only a “recitation” because he hadn’t really changed. I felt very bad, and even more, because I believed he had unlocked himself since at the beginning I had asked him to make me some cuddle and do me some caress every now and then.

I was wrong! He punctually said that it was not true and that he had said it because he was nervous … I think instead that it was just when he was nervous that he was really telling me how things were … with a cold mind he was inclined to deny everything not to let me get away.

One of the last times we made love, immediately after putting the condom, in a few seconds, without giving me even time to undress, his erection became soft, and once again he blamed me saying “Asshole! Hurry up!”; understanding his embarrassment I didn’t even answer, it was clear that it was not my fault! It was he who, in his haste to put on a condom, had given me no time to undress! Usually, knowing his problem, I preferred to wait a while and was not in a hurry. The fact is that I was tired of his humiliations … once, after we did, perhaps because I had kept inside the anger for his gratuitous wickedness, I cried … and he obviously believed I was pretending! I don’t even know how he could have thought such a thing … and oh well!

I arrive to the drop that broke the jar and that made me say “now it’s enough” even if I love him I want a little love for myself! While I was doing oral sex on him he was very excited with a fantasy so much so that he expressed it aloud, in practice he imagined another man who together with him penetrated me. Such a fantasy left me a little disconcerted because I love him I don’t need to think about anything else, I only need him! I would never enjoy seeing him with another girl, rather I die from jealousy! He told me that it didn’t mean that he didn’t love me but that there is a distinction between sex and love.

Then to understand how things really were, I “pretend” to understand his point of view and I tell him that maybe he’s right, that maybe I’m a bit closed because with him I conceived only the classical making love. I tell him that I would like to make this fantasy come true, and that I would have been looking for a guy in the chat! At first he refuses but with a little insistence he accepts (at that moment I would have preferred to die) and he advised me to find a young guy, better if already engaged, who was not inclined to fall in love with someone else … and coming from a different city.

Then he thought of where to do it … he didn’t know if in the car … or in some house! However at the end being a little hesitant he decided to drop it for the moment … maybe later we would have talked about it! Inside me, however, there was a huge disappointment, because I’m convinced that a man who loves would not do a similar rubbish with his woman, but not even for a joke! The fact is that he was angry with me because I didn’t have to play with his imagination and told me that I not having such fantasies I was an amorphous girl.

After two years of great love for him in which if I had been allowed, I would have given my soul for him, if, according to him, thinking only of him when we made love was an “amorphous” thing well, this was not the man I wanted at my side, because as he has often said to me “he never loved me” and certainly he does not know what true love means, I am convinced! And I am even more convinced that he was a repressed gay who for fear of the reality held me bound to him doing me an evil that he couldn’t even imagine.

I’m tired of suffering, I want someone to make me feel loved and that at least cares about me. I still want to believe in true love … I hope it exists!

I only regret having given an immense love to a guy who has never understood it, because he was too devoid of feelings to be able to perceive mine, I was simply for him “the girl with whom he was” no more and no less than many other girls! Which girl in my place would have accepted so much stress if she hadn’t been madly in love? I think certainly none … pity he never understood such things!

This is my story ended on 18/4/2014 … from that day I’m trying a new rebirth, even if we are still at the beginning and for me everything is difficult … I have to suffer long before I can smile again … also because this was for me the first big love of my life, and I really believed it! I apologize if I have been too wordy and thank all those who will want to comment on my story, the opinions are always welcome!

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-a-girl-in-love-for-two-years-with-a-repressed-gay-guy

FALLING IN LOVE WITH A MARRIED MAN

Hi Project, I’ve been reading your sites for a long time and they’ve helped me a lot. My name is Maurice, I am 26 years old and I think I have a lot of problems related to the sphere of sex. I make a seemingly normal life, I recently graduated and I also found a job, I know very well that these days it is very difficult and I was lucky and I do a job that I like. Since I started working I no longer live in the house of my parents and with a little money that they lent me I bought a little cottage in the country, very close to the place where I work, and I live there alone for ten months now.

Loneliness is not a burden to me, I leave the house at six in the morning and go back after seven in the evening, lunch and dinner in the canteen, I don’t cook. I have internet and from eight in the evening I surf the net. I basically discovered your sites when I went to live alone. I had thought almost immediately that I would have liked to talk a little with you, but then it seemed an embarrassing thing and I put aside the idea. Reading the forum I found many things that made my ideas a little clearer, every time I read something that interested me directly I told myself that I should write to you and in the end I did it.

It may seem strange to you, but I’ve never been able to talk seriously with anyone about things related to sexuality. At home, this subject has always been a taboo, but not just about gays but even about sexuality in general. I’ve never had friends, rather acquaintances, but they were certainly not guys with whom I could talk about sexual things. Until the age of 21 I didn’t have internet, I heard someone talking about what could be found on the net but they seemed to me dirty things, for depraved people, and so I put aside the problem even though I knew long since that I was gay, let’s say I considered it as a negative thing that had happened to me, that I had to keep for myself only, a kind of pathological corner to which I was allowed to dedicate only in moments of self-eroticism and also with great feelings of guilt.

In practice, up to 21 years I have always tried to repress my homosexuality through study, but of course what you are comes out anyway but, let’s say, I didn’t accept myself in the full sense of the term. So up to the age of 21 I tried to deny myself that I was gay even if I lived those things through masturbation, that attracted me and at the same time created me a lot of complexes, as if in practice I was destroying the best part of me to make room for the gay part, now I know it’s absurd but at that time I reasoned like that.

At 21, things changed, I had my first computer connected to the internet and I became sex-addicted, in practice I spent the nights to see photos and porn videos and even here there was an evolution, at the beginning anxiety and guilt, then I got wild but over time the interest started going down. In the early days I felt very excited to think that I had to switch on the computer to see porn, then, in the course of a couple of years, things have changed to the point that in practice the videos don’t make me any effect anymore, and in any case I saw a lot less videos and I had become very much selective, I could be interested in at most two or three out of a hundred.

Then there was the chat phase, let’s say it started when I was 22, a bit like with porn videos, at first a huge curiosity, but here it was different, I had to expose myself but I didn’t want to do it. The very first experiences were squalid, obscene proposals and that’s it, but I didn’t give up and I finally met Steven who didn’t do like everyone else (I had tried in the chat at least thirty times!), He told me a lot of good things that I liked and liked a lot.

After several weeks of long conversations day and night, since he didn’t make any proposal as did everyone else, I tried in my turn and asked him to go on cam but he didn’t want. Such a thing displaced me, I didn’t understand why, I thought he was cheating me but I couldn’t understand the meaning of such a behavior, because if he wanted to take advantage of the situation he would have to go to the point, and instead it didn’t happen, the more time passed the less he talked about sex and then he didn’t really have anything that could push me to suspect something strange.

I insisted several times to induce him to show up on cam but he never did. After about six months that we knew each other, he disappeared at all and I didn’t hear from him anymore. I have not the faintest idea of why, I thought about all possible hypotheses, that he was an old man, even though he had told me he was 24, maybe he was a married guy or a priest or maybe a guy with handicap problems. The story of Steven has upset me a lot, maybe I would have fallen in love with him. Even now, sometimes I read the text messages and the conversations with Steven and I’m struck by the level of the conversation that had nothing of the classic erotic chat dialogue. At the time of the chat with Steven, which lasted more than six months, I had not looked for anyone else, but then I started again.

Shortly after my 23-th birthday, after a lot of squalid things, I met a guy from Alexandria, let’s call him Mark, he was not of Steven’s level, but he seemed like a good guy and didn’t live too far from the house of my parents, I lived with them at that time. With Mark we got to the concrete proposals, it was also all in all a nice guy, or at least passable, I lost a lot of time trying to convince me that with him something could have been born but for me he was not really sexually attractive, let’s say that since I saw him on cam I stopped masturbating thinking about him!

What should I have done? I should have told the truth, I know very well, but I didn’t do anything like that, I was afraid he would go away, I was fine with him if it was about talking, in a sense he was a friend but for him it was impossible stop there. He insisted and I escaped, I was looking for excuses, I went on like this, holding him on the rope for a couple of months, he finally made me an aut aut and told me: “If you are not interested in me you must tell me it” but I don’t have had the face to say things as they were and we have arranged an appointment. We met one afternoon, we had to go to a small house of his in the countryside near Alexandria. He, seen in person didn’t attract me at all, I told him that I didn’t feel like it, he tried to insist but I turned and I started running, I just ran away in the most shameful way, he didn’t even try to follow me. At home I saw that he had blocked me on msn.

This was my most engaging adventure with a guy, at least until recently. Now you understand what contacts I’ve had with gay guys. After the story of Mark I thought everything, I asked myself if I was gay, if I was a pathological case, if it could be the case to try with a girl, but for me this is an absolutely unknown planet and then such things never went through my head. At this point of my life I’m in total confusion also because something happened to me that I never imagined.

Five months ago, a 27-year-old guy came to work with me in, let’s call him Andrew, who is exactly the embodiment of my ideal of man, I think I have never seen a more beautiful guy, for a smile of his I would give my soul, he has a voice so sweet that it upsets my guts, I also have the opportunity to talk with him and when it happens I feel in heaven. Andrew is the real reason why I am writing to you, Project, because he is really upsetting my life, I would do crazy things for him, I started to explore a bit the ground, maybe it’s early to say, but I have the impression that he is interested in me, looking for me, smiling at me, he treats me in a loving way, but there is a huge problem, Andrew is married for 5 years now and also has a child.

In our conversations he never told me it and where I work nobody knows it but I came to known it from unofficial sources, in practice from people who know him well. If Andrew was 100% hetero I would end up removing him from my head. There are many beautiful guys and he would be one of the many who have nothing to do with me, but I think Andrew is not really hetero, it’s not something I hope, it’s something that I think on the base of many elements that himself has provided me and that I believe he has provided me those elements because of a good reason.

Project, try to understand, I’m not fantasizing, I have the very clear impression that Andrew is trying to tell me this in all the moments when we are together, he cannot but he is trying and I feel myself in great difficulty, the main reason is not that I can fall in love with him, what anyhow scares me, but rather the fact that he can fall in love with me. Even at the cost of breaking my heart, I could always drive back, but if he loses his head where are we going to end up?

Andrea is not a chat user but he is a married man, according to what I think, he is a gay married man who is desperately lonely and is trying to build something with me and I don’t know what to do, I’m afraid of these things, I don’t know how I would react in front of a similar situation and I don’t know where to start from. Project, let’s say that of what I said I’m 98% sure and I think that I’ll get soon to an explicit talk with Andrew but I fear that he too can be split in two. But why does a married guy with a child completely avoid any mention of his family? It should be a beautiful thing and instead he never talks about it with anyone. Of the fact that he is married and has a son, I am absolutely sure.

I wonder if it is morally honest for me to keep him away from his family, to hear him, and maybe offer him a chance to throw out everything he carries inside. For me it is a very important person and I tell you that I’m thinking of him from morning to night, but I would also accept not to see him any more so as not to ruin his life, but he looks for me and I have the impression that I’m also an important presence for him. Here I arrived at the end of the story. Project, please, take it for granted that Andrew is not straight, or at least he is not 100% straight, and tell me what you would do. I need a serious comparison.

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If you like, you can join the discussion on this post on Gay Project Forum: http://gayprojectforum.altervista.org/T-falling-in-love-with-a-married-man